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Old 2012-02-10, 22:18   Link #1241
Adigard
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miketyson View Post
I like the thought going into this show, too: the reason the abductors are so half-hearted about abducting (capturing maybe low 10s of people at once) is b/c the goods aren't surviving the trip yet, so now point ruining the merchandise until you know how to transport it safely.
It may be a mix of that... and the fact that they're still in a recon mode, as was pointed out at the tail end of the last episode.

Hard to say, as with everything else we're really not far enough in to know what's really going on.

Spoiler:

The job, of course was recently assigned him by Izumo a few episodes prior.

It's also worth pointing out the the Neo-DEAVA pilots apparently have no great fear of the abductor unmanned capture ships and routinely stomp them (prior to ep1).

Spoiler:


Although I wonder how much of that is false bravado on Andy's part... or just not knowing better. Apparently the Abductor's have been rather active over the past 9 years, but if the translation in the first episode can be believed it's the first time the 'boys' have fought the Abductors.

Some of this would probably be clearer with better translations, but hey, I'm just happy to be able to watch a translated version.
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Old 2012-02-10, 22:26   Link #1242
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Originally Posted by evil|plushie View Post
there is no appollonius, just like there's no celiane and silvia. Silvia is a subset of Celiane. Celiane can not be reincarnated unless it has its whole parts or unless her split again at which point, both are Celiane.

As for Appollonius, Apollo IS pretty much appollonius minus his wings which became aquarion. His soul wasn't split in the sense it became 2 beings. It's more like he ripped off his own power source and it became Aquarion (iirc, he already had aquarion back when he was apollonius). So unless apollo's soul split into 2 as well, there's no apollonius reincarnation
I think he means it in a sense similar to how Celiane was incarnated as two separate people: Sirius and Sylvia. One could go on to say that the aspect of Celiane's soul that went on to become Sirius (for example), could be reincarnated thus be called the reincarnation of Sirius even though he isn't the originator of the soul (but then, who's to say that Celiane isn't a fraction of some larger oversoul). So, apply this to Apollo/Apollonius: Kagura is the reincarnation, for the most part, of Apollo (and everything that made Apollo, Apollo) while Amata is the reincarnation of the Wings that represented Apollonius as the Shadow Angel. Likewise, Mikono could be a reincarnation of the fragment tied closely to the past of Sylvia, while Zessica could have come from a fragment that (for instance) was never anything but Celiane.

And this is assuming that we don't have two sets of seperate Apollo/Apollonius and Sylvia/Celianne souls between the two worlds...

Or something...

Of course, reincarnation is a loose subject. One could argue that a fragmented soul, after enough time and experience, could become two separate souls that are defined (and separated) by the diverging lives and histories of the two separate reincarnates. And, in this way, you can get around Conservation of Souls and wonder where new souls come from.
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Old 2012-02-11, 03:04   Link #1243
bakAnki
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Originally Posted by Lord of Pandemonium View Post
Might true after all. Either he's part of Kagura or he's just some creation of Mikage.
TBH...I think that the "Reigler" is Amata not Mikono.
I have no doubt that, Kagura is "The Chosen One" and he is truly Apollo/Apollon. The person whom Mikage speaks of, but the Reigler he follows so doggedly isn't Mikono. She's just his mate but he's also drawn to Aquarion & Amata <---The Reigler. I believe that Amata is whom they were searching for in Episodes 1 & 2 .
I'm also thinking that Amata is from Altair. But my reason for believing that is kinda ridiculous..... Because it seems only Amata that wondering why many animals are called 'cat'/neko XD
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Old 2012-02-11, 06:21   Link #1244
kuromitsu
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Originally Posted by Adigard View Post
Although I wonder how much of that is false bravado on Andy's part... or just not knowing better. Apparently the Abductor's have been rather active over the past 9 years, but if the translation in the first episode can be believed it's the first time the 'boys' have fought the Abductors.
I'm pretty sure it wasn't their first real battle, they weren't excited or nervous at all. Besides it's been said that Shrade is never allowed in real action which implies that the others have been doing real fighting.

From the context (Donar complaining about the girls and boys not cooperating) I guess Suomi just meant that it was their first experience with each other, or rather, the boys' first experience with the girls (because Suomi would put the blame on the boys ). It would make sense, given that boys and girls couldn't meet at Neo-Deava at the time, and this was the first time the two teams have been deployed at the same time.
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Old 2012-02-11, 08:24   Link #1245
Zuul
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Originally Posted by Vena View Post

And this is assuming that we don't have two sets of seperate Apollo/Apollonius and Sylvia/Celianne souls between the two worlds...

Or something...

It would be the most logical way to explain the 2 separate sets of incarnation, I think.

It would mean that one of the girl has to be from altea
In this theory, either Zess, which we don't know enough about yet (I'm counting on the next episode to flesh her background a bit) or Mikono would have tro come from the other dimension.
In Mikono's case, it could explain her lack of physical similarities with Cayenne and the fact she's not an element. It could also explain the déjà vu impression Kagura gave her. It could just be that they 've already met in this life and not a previous incarnation.

It's still not very satisfying theory though.


I love speculating.
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Old 2012-02-11, 08:28   Link #1246
Kakkou
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Originally Posted by bakAnki View Post
I'm also thinking that Amata is from Altair. But my reason for believing that is kinda ridiculous..... Because it seems only Amata that wondering why many animals are called 'cat'/neko XD
Somehow... I really like that theory.
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Old 2012-02-11, 09:09   Link #1247
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I can see Amata's origin being "Vega, but not really," meaning something like this:

Alisia and Izumo are his parents, and are both originally from Vega. At some point Mykage captured Alisia (to use in those machines), and then made Izumo some kind of offer ("lead Altair's military to find the *real* eve, and I'll give your Alisia back to you." Somehow, as well, Izumo and Alisia managed to dump young Amata back off on Vega (b/c Altair is a horrible place to live).

To be really plausible we'd need more revelations from the story but I can definitely see (1) Izumo being an unwilling "recruit" originally from Vega and (2) Amata's memories of Alisia being a subtle troll (she's "dropping him off more" and not "being taken away"). Or it could just be that she and Izumo went to Altair voluntarily (to stave off another round of abductors) and ditched him back on Vega.

Even if that doesn't work, I think having the "Apollonius" group of reincarnations originate from Altair and the "Celianne" reincarnations originate from Vega would go well with whole summer triangle naming thing they have going on: maybe the reincarnations cause too much trouble so have been split up, maybe the reincarnations are kept apart until "it's time", but in the story we're seeing it's "too soon" for it to happen (hence the "forbidden meeting" angle)?
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Old 2012-02-11, 10:07   Link #1248
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I can see Alicia leaving Vega willingly because her film made a flop on Vega but was a huge success on Altea. Of course she wasn't concious that apart from massivelly worshipping her they would turn her into a human generator or something of the sort.

Another thing that has me wondering is that apparently Kagura is the only dude from Altea who doesn't despise Mikage. Maybe he's just too clueless, unlike the other 2, to realise this dude has every trait of a magnificent manipulative bastard. XD
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Old 2012-02-11, 10:18   Link #1249
mayumi
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there was a interesting theory i read - in the OP we see pink flowers that are like pods when izumo is looking at alicia. the same flower burts at the end of the OP when amata and kagura clash. i think amata is the real eve or its a combination of the 3 main characters - (amata some sort of relation to apollo/apollonius, mikono - some hidden power over evol, zessica - her force element which is strengthen by amata) and that the bursting flower represents life energy. perhaps that's how altair plan on making their planet come alive again.

don't know if anyone noticed but so far regarding the element powers - amata's element gets powered up with whatever element mikono has, zessica'e element gets powered by amata's, the last one should be mikono's element(if she has one) gets powered by zessica's.
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Old 2012-02-11, 10:31   Link #1250
miketyson
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I didn't see Jin as disliking Mykage, at most just a bit annoyed with the way he lets Kagura run wild; Jin seems to be "all business". So it'd break down as: Kagura is fond of Mykage, Izumo seems to actively dislike Mykage, and Jin neutral. That's where I was thinking Izumo was perhaps a Vegan somehow impressed into service on Altair.
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Old 2012-02-11, 11:07   Link #1251
kuromitsu
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Yeah, so far it's only Izumo who seems to really dislike Mykage. Kagura apparently had a habit of visiting him while he was asleep, and Jin is either neutral or likes him, too. Also, Mykage seems to be friendly with both of them: he has Kagura on an even looser leash than Izumo, and when he first appeared to Izumo and Jin he noted how Jin has grown (I thought that was rather cute).
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Old 2012-02-11, 11:15   Link #1252
Lord of Pandemonium
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kuromitsu View Post
Well, I'm mostly talking about Evol...

and frankly anything (OK, almost anything) but that off-topic flame about female pilots or whatever. o__o)


Also, since everyone's posting pictures... I have a picture of the Vectors' launch HQ.
Spoiler for pic:


...yeah. DDDD

Is is just me or do those things look like vaginas? Is is it just me? I am tad on the "ALWAYS THINKING ABOUT SEX" side so it could just be me...but seriously does that look like the Va-Jay-Jay to y'all?


So you can translate? can you tell me if Fudo said

"That's not love, it's a forbidden meeting"
or "That's not love, it's a forbidden love"
I have two different versions from two different translations. In cases like this I usually download a third and go with the two that are most similar...do you know?




@mayumi
Quote:
- amata's element gets powered up with whatever element mikono has
That's because he gets a "rise" whenever she touches him
I love Freud

So far she doesn't seem to have any elemental power but "The Heart"

Okay...I have to go get coffee then I want to write the rest of my theory about Shrade and comment on the other theories. I like speculating...THANK YOU GUYS for doing it with me

I want to leave you with these vectors of Apollon from Evol

I am getting Mix, Andy, Zessica and Sylvie and I might just get Shrade-sama (he's so hot) ....enjoy~
Spoiler for Kind of huge:
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Old 2012-02-11, 11:28   Link #1253
miketyson
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord of Pandemonium View Post
So you can translate? can you tell me if Fudo said

"That's not love, it's a forbidden meeting"
or "That's not love, it's a forbidden love"
I have two different versions from two different translations. In cases like this I usually download a third and go with the two that are most similar...do you know?
Yikes! This one I think even I can help you with, it was definitely much closer to the first one: "That's not love (恋愛, renai). It's a forbidden (禁断, kindan) meeting (出会い, deai)." (I forget his exact phrasing, but unless I'm horribly misremembering it those're the key words).
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Old 2012-02-11, 11:59   Link #1254
kuromitsu
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Yep. Fudou says it's not love, it's a "forbidden meeting" (禁断の出会い)
The Aquarion register (?? WHY was it registered??) says "forbidden love" (禁断愛) and gives the Engilsh translation as "forbidden lovers."

Note that when Fudou says it's not love he uses "renai" (恋愛) that specifically means romantic love. The register screen uses the word ai (愛) which in itself means "love" in general, but in this context seems to be quite specific. The English translation is "lovers" which also seems straightforward enough. Fudou using "renai" may or may not be relevant... someone who knows the writer better than me could probably shed some light on it.

(Btw, while we're at it, when Fudou told that the strongest emotion people can feel was love, he used "koi", 恋 that has more specifically romantic connotations than "ai", 愛. Again, this may or may not be relevant.)

Last edited by kuromitsu; 2012-02-11 at 12:31.
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Old 2012-02-11, 12:03   Link #1255
LoweGear
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... So. Just as I was about to finish loading songs on my iPod for a roadtrip I'll be going on tomorrow, suddenly I get linked to

OSORE! LIVING YOUR LIFE DON'T GIVE UP NOW KEEP MOVING ON

*is now listening to the full studio versions of Kimi No Shinwa and Gekkou Symphonia*

Unfortunately linking to them would get me in deep water, but it should be easy enough to find at the "usual places".

Edit: You can post youtube links to those songs right?
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Last edited by LoweGear; 2012-02-11 at 12:18.
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Old 2012-02-11, 12:18   Link #1256
miketyson
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kuromitsu: I forgot about the "register", I guess I can see now how someone might've decided to translate 禁断の出会い into forbidden love (misguided attempt to be consistent with the register?).

My gut is that the 恋 vs 愛 vs 恋愛 thing will actually be significant (and isn't just avoiding repetitive dialogue): while Amata and Mikono were "almost" falling in love her ring had a sustained golden glow (just a glow, no sparks coming out). We didn't see that for anyone else, because everyone else always went straight from gold => red => sparks.
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Old 2012-02-11, 13:43   Link #1257
Zuul
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I interpreted it like Mikono responding in a luckwarm way to Amata's more guenuine feelings. Which amongst other thing makes me not too fond of the AmataxMikono thing. He clearly deserves more than what he's getting from Mikono at the moment.
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Old 2012-02-11, 13:54   Link #1258
miketyson
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Could be that too, depends on which way the show goes. As long as it doesn't get too emo-ish and soap-opera-esque (characters constantly "hopping ships") I'm fine with most romantic outcomes; I'm mostly here for the fabulousness of it all.
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Old 2012-02-11, 14:07   Link #1259
Zuul
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Could be that too, depends on which way the show goes. As long as it doesn't get too emo-ish and soap-opera-esque (characters constantly "hopping ships") I'm fine with most romantic outcomes; I'm mostly here for the fabulousness of it all.
Hopefully the author will make up for it if it's the way they are planning to take.

I'm in her for the bright colours, giant robots destroying cities, scenery porn, bishounen, sexual references, theories, the romance and the probable trolling that is to come.
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Old 2012-02-11, 14:19   Link #1260
Vena
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Originally Posted by mayumi View Post
don't know if anyone noticed but so far regarding the element powers - amata's element gets powered up with whatever element mikono has, zessica'e element gets powered by amata's, the last one should be mikono's element(if she has one) gets powered by zessica's.
We haven't actually scene Amata get powered up specifically by Mikono, have we? His glowing in the first episode was something he knew he could do and did intentionally, but Mikono was the catalyst in that she got his heart racing and his mind focused on protecting her. His glowing was his own power going into overdrive and we see it happen in the double episode intro and, if I'm not remembering incorrectly, when he's in the Aquaria with Andy and Cayenne. I don't think there's any real consistency to point at Mikono amplifying his powers, whereas we've only ever seen one instance of Zessica's power getting amplified but we have no idea if that was because of Amata or the Aquarion or both or neither.

Quote:
Originally Posted by miketyson View Post
kuromitsu: I forgot about the "register", I guess I can see now how someone might've decided to translate 禁断の出会い into forbidden love (misguided attempt to be consistent with the register?).

My gut is that the 恋 vs 愛 vs 恋愛 thing will actually be significant (and isn't just avoiding repetitive dialogue): while Amata and Mikono were "almost" falling in love her ring had a sustained golden glow (just a glow, no sparks coming out). We didn't see that for anyone else, because everyone else always went straight from gold => red => sparks.
Considering our writing staff, I'd be surprised if it didn't mean more than just avoidance of repetitive dialogue. The translation from Forbidden Meeting to Forbidden Lovers seems to be one for consistency but I think its losing a part of the meaning, and hence why we have the register popping up as well. I do, however, think that Fudo's dialogue and the register's reaction were allusions to something more. He calls it not romantic love (and rightfully, it would be a bit strange for Mikono to suddenly fall in love with a complete stranger) and hence his usage of renai as opposed to simply ai, he's being specific on purpose to make it clear that its not Mikono falling love. The register's statement of Forbidden Love (ai) points to the underlying cause being love of some sort, while Fudo's statement would imply that its not Mikono's. Simplest solution? Love from a past life swelled up from contact with Kagura (hence our forbidden lovers and their meeting, as in its a love from another time and a meeting too late (of sorts)) and caused the reaction. Fudo's statement is simply used to clarify that Mikono's emotions did not factor in at that instant, and later we see her begin to question what she's feeling and remembering things about Kagura.

There is one other issue and that is with the rings, Mikono's reaction to Kagura is that of an overwhelming love and hence the massive shock she received, but the its not her own romantic feelings (to be consistent with what I said above). From which I drew two possible meanings: the rings react to primal love (lust) which we can compare to Andy and Sazanka's reactions to Mikono's explosion at the end, or that Mikono's love towards Amata was not quite as strong as it appeared (insecure, or some such). I had initially thought the former made more sense but the dialogue from Fudo and the others seemed to imply that any sort of love would trigger a reaction (and hence the purpose of the rings)... but then it didn't trigger any sort of reaction from Mikono when the two were on the cusp of falling in love when Donar couldn't shoot Amata in the butt with a dart. Equally confusing is the fact that Amata is reacting quite strongly but Mikono's ring is only golden. So the reactions don't seem consistent at the moment... (Factoring in Zessica's kite flying of Amata along with Amata's involuntary stimulating in the third episode adds another layer of confusion because they show that Amata flies when his emotions are racing (whatever they may be, fear, lust, etc), and we see him fly for Mikono meaning his emotions are racing (and that he'd have probably gotten himself shocked into a coma) but we don't see nearly the same level of reaction from Mikono. So I don't really understand what they were going on when they said that Amata and Mikono were almost in love when the reactions between the two seemed vastly different. Though perhaps if they had fallen in love Mikono's ring would have then fired up? It was starting to glow, little by little, on that rooftop. All in all, though, I think the latter of the two options makes the most sense when taken into context with everything around it: Mikono's love isn't (and didn't get the chance to) reach the same level as Amata's.)

When I first saw that scene, the above is what I had thought of it.

Something I didn't consider: the register was actually saying "Cock Blocked!" but in a nice way, to Amata.
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