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Old 2012-02-11, 16:48   Link #1261
miketyson
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Just realized that 恋 vs 愛 vs 恋愛 is almost certainly going to be a "thing" in this series: going from memory, Mykage's been exclusively using 愛 (愛の調べ, etc). So if that holds up the good guys are about 恋, the bad guys are about 愛, (and 恋愛 is the "neutral zone", lol).

It would be a hilarious troll if it wound up being the other way around, though: romantic love is dangerous and uncontrollable (hence something the good guys try and prevent), but "baser" attraction is a-ok and useful. I can't see them going that way -- too contrary to conventional wisdom to work, even for shock value -- and it doesn't seem to square with the way the rings worked on people like Andy, but it'd still be a great troll.
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Old 2012-02-11, 17:03   Link #1262
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miketyson View Post
Just realized that 恋 vs 愛 vs 恋愛 is almost certainly going to be a "thing" in this series: going from memory, Mykage's been exclusively using 愛 (愛の調べ, etc). So if that holds up the good guys are about 恋, the bad guys are about 愛, (and 恋愛 is the "neutral zone", lol).

It would be a hilarious troll if it wound up being the other way around, though: romantic love is dangerous and uncontrollable (hence something the good guys try and prevent), but "baser" attraction is a-ok and useful. I can't see them going that way -- too contrary to conventional wisdom to work, even for shock value -- and it doesn't seem to square with the way the rings worked on people like Andy, but it'd still be a great troll.
The disaster with Donar happened because of genuine romantic love, and its Mykage who breaks it (or is he the cause of it?). Fudo and co. seem to want to prevent said disaster from happening again, so they don't want genuine love it would seem but almost-love. But, again, the rings and reactions seem inconsistent. Andy gets fried for lustful thoughts, but Sazanka wasn't lusting after anyone and was entirely shipping... it monitors heart rate and such, so that all makes sense. But when you factor in Amata and Mikono things start to get confusing. If they were on the cusp of falling in love, you'd suspect that their hearts would have been racing, and we can infer that indeed Amata's was but not (?) Mikono's?

Confusing.
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Old 2012-02-11, 17:13   Link #1263
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Ah, I don't think it's worth thinking too deeply about this... ^^;; "ai" is perfectly good for romantic love, too - at least in this context I find it difficult to interpret it in any other way. It's just that "renai" is more specific, and it just made me wonder why Fudou (who is pretty much all-knowing) said it wasn't romantic love and yet it was "registered" as clearly romantic love, re: lovers and whatnot. Then again, it may not mean anything in particular.
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Old 2012-02-11, 17:57   Link #1264
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Yeah, looking now I was a bit too vague with "about" (hazard of multitasking). I was thinking good guys are about about (controlling) koi and the bad guys are about (finding) ai, but it might be another mountain out of a molehill.
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Old 2012-02-12, 00:18   Link #1265
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Okay, I'm gonna clarify my theory once and for all about the Apollo, Apollonius, Kagura, and Amata. It's not extensive to EP7 yet, as that hasn't aired... but I've got enough to prove my theory might be correct.

Spoiler for reincarnation theory, proof below:
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Old 2012-02-12, 00:30   Link #1266
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Edit: It's 12:35 est, does Aquarion Evol air at 1:35 am my time ...or what time?

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Originally Posted by evil|plushie View Post

As for Appollonius, Apollo IS pretty much appollonius minus his wings which became aquarion. His soul wasn't split in the sense it became 2 beings. It's more like he ripped off his own power source and it became Aquarion (iirc, he already had aquarion back when he was apollonius). So unless apollo's soul split into 2 as well, there's no apollonius reincarnation
dude "wings" don't talk. He was in Aquarion, the Angel

Which makes me again doubt that Amata is his wings, because he has no smell. Apollonius wings or not, had a smell. Apollo said he smelled like all the other shadow angels

Amata has no smell that's why I think he's some freaky creation created to cockblock Kagura and Mikono. For some reason their union is considered disastrous by the people in EVOL. Love is forbidden and a love as strong as theirs, has been known to destroy worlds


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Originally Posted by Zuul View Post
The reincarnation theory that appeals to me the most at the moment is :

Amata = Appollonius
Zess = Celiane

Kagura = Appollo
Mikono = Silvia.

I'm well aware it's a bit off. It's about what I would like to see, not what I deem more logical.

Besides the Alicia girl doesn't fit in it, and I'm sure she has an important part to play in the reincarnation mess.
For the moment I just think she's Amata's mom/big sister.
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Originally Posted by Vena View Post
I think he means it in a sense similar to how Celiane was incarnated as two separate people: Sirius and Sylvia. One could go on to say that the aspect of Celiane's soul that went on to become Sirius (for example), could be reincarnated thus be called the reincarnation of Sirius even though he isn't the originator of the soul (but then, who's to say that Celiane isn't a fraction of some larger oversoul). So, apply this to Apollo/Apollonius: Kagura is the reincarnation, for the most part, of Apollo (and everything that made Apollo, Apollo) while Amata is the reincarnation of the Wings that represented Apollonius as the Shadow Angel. Likewise, Mikono could be a reincarnation of the fragment tied closely to the past of Sylvia, while Zessica could have come from a fragment that (for instance) was never anything but Celiane.

And this is assuming that we don't have two sets of seperate Apollo/Apollonius and Sylvia/Celianne souls between the two worlds...

Or something...

Of course, reincarnation is a loose subject. One could argue that a fragmented soul, after enough time and experience, could become two separate souls that are defined (and separated) by the diverging lives and histories of the two separate reincarnates. And, in this way, you can get around Conservation of Souls and wonder where new souls come from.



honestly that doesn't make sense to me. Silvia and Apollo were reincarnations of the Apollonious and Celiane. The souls were the same, they just had different "identities" because their lives from rebirth to that point shaped their personalities but ultimately it is as bad fluffy toy said

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Originally Posted by evil|plushie View Post
there is no appollonius, just like there's no celiane and silvia. Silvia is a subset of Celiane. Celiane can not be reincarnated unless it has its whole parts or unless her split again at which point, both are Celiane.
If Amata is Apolloinious reincarnated he would also be Apollo too. You can't separate them. Even if Apollon has split into Kagura and Amata--both are still connected to Apollonious, Apollo and Apollon--whatever you want to call him. It's one soul...it's not two separate souls and a fragment can't exist--well it can if only part o fit was reborn but eventually the other part is reborn, even if it's two separate people they're still one soul



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Originally Posted by Adigard View Post
Thank god someone finally agrees with me ^_^

sorta... because technically isn't the definition of protagonist the chief actor, or main character?

I'd prefer viewpoint character / protagonist or main character / and hero.

I agree with you, except the main character isn't always the "protagonist" in the story. In fact, the main character's story can be told in a narrative by the protagonist

Case in point Puella Magi Madoka Magica. Madoka is the main character but Homura is the protagonist. Everything including the OP is from Homura's perspective but you don't realize it till episode 10. They're not always the same person and you know what I am starting to think

Amata is a decoy main character/hero/protagonist (any one of those titles take your pic) and EVOL is still about Apollo and Silvia/ Apollonious and Celiane, only this time they're Kagura and Mikono. Promotional art of characters who weren't the main character has been used a lot of times (Darker than Black is famous for it. Everybody Hei hugs dies GIVE ME BACK YIN DAMN YOU!!1)

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Originally Posted by LoveMeKags View Post
Okay, I'm gonna clarify my theory once and for all about the Apollo, Apollonius, Kagura, and Amata. It's not extensive to EP7 yet, as that hasn't aired... but I've got enough to prove my theory might be correct.

Spoiler for reincarnation theory, proof below:
Edit: because I added to this because I am rushing but I have to get this out or die

that doesn't make sense to me. Apollo didn't have wings and he was the solar wing. The sun lit up and it's on water, the same as it was in the first series. Apollo myth has being born in a "lake"

Amata didn't have strings in the first episode. The strings on Apollo FORMED WINGS. That didn't happen. Amata merely lifted Aquarion so he could fly... There is more that connects Kagura to Apollo and Apollonius than it is for Amata

Silvia and Sirius have been depicted with wings in ED and Promotional art

honestly you don't see that much of Apollonious personality and if you look at my earlier post I actually showed how they weren't that different. What we saw of Apollonious and Celiane---they were like Silvia and Apollo

There is nothing but wings that says Amata would be the reincarnation. That's it and he has more in common with Silvia and Celiane than he does Apollonious and Apollo. Where is Apollon? How come we don't see him. Does that really make sense to you? It' doesn't to me

Kagura has never been "in" Aquarion, so how could Apollonius appear if he's NOT inside Aqaurion. Yet Kagura knew it was the "Machine Angel" ...he recognized Aquarion instantly

There is no way that Kagura could be Apollo while Amata is Apollonius...they're the same soul with different names. Either Amata is a a part of all of them Apollon/Apollonious/Apollo/Kagura or he isn't



Look up Prometheus and Apollo and then see how Evol has already confirmed that Kagura is the reincarnation of Apollon/Apollonious/Apollo

He's not like Apollo, he is Apollo in every way. I have to go but I will go into detail later

Last edited by Lord of Pandemonium; 2012-02-12 at 00:41.
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Old 2012-02-12, 00:34   Link #1267
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Originally Posted by LoveMeKags View Post
Looking at the OP, I don't know if this'll spoil the future, but Mikono, up close:

looks kinda hurt physically.
That last bit was a good catch... There certainly seems to be unlimited spoilers in both the OP and the ED, depending, but that bit seems true. Now whether or not it's actually meaningful in a mech fighting show remains to be seen.
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Old 2012-02-12, 00:36   Link #1268
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Originally Posted by Lord of Pandemonium View Post
that doesn't make sense to me. Apollo didn't have wings and he was the solar wing. The sun lit up and it's on water, the same as it was in the first series. Apollo myth has being born in a "lake"

Amata didn't have strings in the first episode. There is more that connects Kagura to Apollo and Apollonius than it is for Amata

Silvia and Sirius have been depicted with wings in ED and Promotional art

honestly you don't see that much of Apollonious personality and if you look at my earlier post I actually showed how they weren't that different. What we saw of Apollonious and Celiane---

There is nothing but wings that says Amata would be the reincarnation. That's it and he has more in common with Silvia and Celiane than he does Apollonious and Apollo. Where is Apollon? How come we don't see him. Does that really make sense to you? It' doesn't to me

Kagura has never been "in" Aquarion, so how could Apollonius appear if he's inside Aqaurion. Yet Kagura knew it was the "Machine Angel" ...he recognized Aquarion instantly

There is no way that Kagura could be Apollo while Amata is Apollonius...they're the same soul with different names. Either Amata is a apart of all of them Apollon/Apollonious/Apollo/Kagura or he isn't



Look up Promethus and Apollo and then see how Evol has already confirmed that Kagura is the reincarnation of Apollon/Apollonious/Apollo

He's not like Apollo, he is Apollo in every way. I have to go but I will go into detail later
The problem with your theory is that Apollo attracted Aquarion in EP1 and Amata did so too in EP1/2, however, why hasn't the Aquarion come to Kagura if he is Apollonius?

That is one question you really have to ask yourself. It isn't impossible that Amata AND Kagura are part of Apollonius, which is why Kagura cannot smell him because he smells himself. So what if Kagura is just Apollo and Amata is Apollonius directly? Sirius and Silvia were both Celienne and Apollo regarded they had similar/same scent. However, if Apollonius was split in two, of course Kagura would only smell himself when sniffing Amata.

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Originally Posted by Adigard View Post
That last bit was a good catch... There certainly seems to be unlimited spoilers in both the OP and the ED, depending, but that bit seems true. Now whether or not it's actually meaningful in a mech fighting show remains to be seen.
I happened to stop on that scene and went "why does she have all these scratches and dirt on her face?" Then I realized she's hurt physically. Whether or not this spoils what will happen, I do not know. However, it's very odd.
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Old 2012-02-12, 00:41   Link #1269
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Originally Posted by Lord of Pandemonium View Post



honestly that doesn't make sense to me. Silvia and Apollo were reincarnations of the Apollonious and Celiane. The souls were the same, they just had different "identities" because their lives from rebirth to that point shaped their personalities but ultimately it is as bad fluffy toy said
It was a passing joke on the Conservation of Energy, but with the twist of souls. What I was specifically talking about, though, is that a soul broken into fragments could experience two entirely divorced lives, personalities, and histories. After a suitable time, would it not be justifiable to say that the original soul is no longer one but two separate entities traveling down the threads of time? Wouldn't the qualities of the new lives eventually *rub off* on the reincarnated souls, and change them? After enough time has passed, if the previous question was answered with a "yes", you'd have two inconsolable, now their own, parts of an old soul.

This is largely philosophy, not much about the show.

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Originally Posted by Adigard View Post
That last bit was a good catch... There certainly seems to be unlimited spoilers in both the OP and the ED, depending, but that bit seems true. Now whether or not it's actually meaningful in a mech fighting show remains to be seen.
I think the fact that her hair falls is more telling, if we're going to pulling at the OP for clues, as there's only one other scene so far where she's had her hair down.
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Old 2012-02-12, 01:48   Link #1270
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Originally Posted by LoveMeKags View Post
The problem with your theory is that Apollo attracted Aquarion in EP1 and Amata did so too in EP1/2, however, why hasn't the Aquarion come to Kagura if he is Apollonius?

That is one question you really have to ask yourself. It isn't impossible that Amata AND Kagura are part of Apollonius, which is why Kagura cannot smell him because he smells himself. So what if Kagura is just Apollo and Amata is Apollonius directly? Sirius and Silvia were both Celienne and Apollo regarded they had similar/same scent. However, if Apollonius was split in two, of course Kagura would only smell himself when sniffing Amata.


.
Apollonious and Apollo are the same person. That's the problem with your theory. You keep trying to separate them. It isn't impossible that Both Amata and Kagura are the reincarnation of Apollonious, which makes them the reincarnation of Apollo as well. One cannot be the reincarnation of Apollo and the other the reincarnation of Apollonius. That is the impossible thing. Actually Apollo never remarked on Sirius scent but he had the same type of relationship with Sirus as he did with Silvia (minus the kissing). Wolves can smell their own scent. It's how they mark their territory, it's how they find their way home. Apollo could smell Apollonious he said his scent was the same as all the other DaTenshi Yes Apollo did call out to Aquarion, and Kagura also recognized "The wings of the sun" and Aquarion

Kagura hasn't had a personality transfer--true, but he's also never piloted Aquarion either. Apollo could smell himself and Apollonius ...
Apollo also said he'd never forget her smell, he feels as if he's always known him and Mikono also said that she felt that he had feelings for her before, despite knowing him. She has never ever said that about Amata.. Amata doesn't smell her either..which is why I think he's a false soul and not a real one or he's a small part of Apollon...but for the most part Kagura is

Fuck what time does it air, why won't anyone tell me
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Old 2012-02-12, 02:05   Link #1271
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Fuck what time does it air, why won't anyone tell me
25:35 (1:35 AM)

So in about 9 and a half hours I think
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Old 2012-02-12, 02:43   Link #1272
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I was just thinking about why Amato's wings being on his feet felt so familiar then I remembered
Spoiler for something from the original series:
Donno if there's anything to it though. :\
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Old 2012-02-12, 02:45   Link #1273
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Apollonious and Apollo are the same person. That's the problem with your theory. You keep trying to separate them. It isn't impossible that Both Amata and Kagura are the reincarnation of Apollonious, which makes them the reincarnation of Apollo as well. One cannot be the reincarnation of Apollo and the other the reincarnation of Apollonius. That is the impossible thing. Actually Apollo never remarked on Sirius scent but he had the same type of relationship with Sirus as he did with Silvia (minus the kissing). Wolves can smell their own scent. It's how they mark their territory, it's how they find their way home. Apollo could smell Apollonious he said his scent was the same as all the other DaTenshi Yes Apollo did call out to Aquarion, and Kagura also recognized "The wings of the sun" and Aquarion

Kagura hasn't had a personality transfer--true, but he's also never piloted Aquarion either. Apollo could smell himself and Apollonius ...
Apollo also said he'd never forget her smell, he feels as if he's always known him and Mikono also said that she felt that he had feelings for her before, despite knowing him. She has never ever said that about Amata.. Amata doesn't smell her either..which is why I think he's a false soul and not a real one or he's a small part of Apollon...but for the most part Kagura is
I hate to say this, because this is a nice debate: but until we have more episodes, neither of our theories really hold water. Since we have no solid proof of either theory, only what we've seen in the OS (which isn't really great to compare in the new series anyway, especially for newbies), our theories are just theories and not facts. We should wait till more episodes and solid proof are revealed to debate this.

Can we call it truce until then?

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I was just thinking about why Amato's wings being on his feet felt so familiar then I remembered
Spoiler for something from the original series:
Donno if there's anything to it though. :\
There's just one thing I question here: has he met either of the main characters in the past before? Mikono remarks that she feels like she's met Amata before (or known him for a long time in another translation). So I'm questioning WHO Amata is based on that. If Mikono is a part of Silvia/Celienne, then WHO is Amata if not Apollonius? Unless she had someone else whom was her lover, there's no other explanation... unless he's part of Celienne too, but Kagura remarking he has no scent leaves me to wonder on that. Unless Amata is part of Toma, though I doubt that.

I think the question of whom is whom will have to wait till later episodes because right now, we don't have nearly enough proof to make any theories hold water. At 6 episodes... nothing can be proven sadly.
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Old 2012-02-12, 05:01   Link #1274
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Amata has no smell that's why I think he's some freaky creation created to cockblock Kagura and Mikono.
Can we just keep this sort of thing out of this? -_-)

I mean, seriously - regardless of reincarnation, regardless of who you ship, which boy you prefer or what you hope for, Amata is the protagonist of this show. He has been chosen by the "legend". I think it's safe to say that he's not just some freaky creation whose entire purpose is being a cockblock.

(SO not touching the rest...)
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Old 2012-02-12, 05:33   Link #1275
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Can we just keep this sort of thing out of this? -_-)

I mean, seriously - regardless of reincarnation, regardless of who you ship, which boy you prefer or what you hope for, Amata is the protagonist of this show. He has been chosen by the "legend". I think it's safe to say that he's not just some freaky creation whose entire purpose is being a cockblock.

(SO not touching the rest...)
I agree. And regardless of reincarnation, I think what we should rather look at now is whom has chemistry first. And so far, I'm up to debate on how Zessica will enter as a competitor in the romance department next episode. So far... Amata has referred to Mikono as his "first love" so I'm wondering if Zessica in the next episode will start to rise. Plus, I'm hoping Shrade comes back... I need some BL and definitely some laughs.

--

On another note, the OP & ED singles came out today.

I'm addicted to the OP song by Akino with bless 4. However, the ED is kinda meh to me. I don't really like it as much.

Honestly, speaking of that "cheesy" scene between Amata and Mikono, I have to say that this series has the best of Yoko Kanno to it. I love the music. That scene alone just pulls me in for its beautiful music. Call it "cheesy" but I love music as a separate piece.
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Old 2012-02-12, 06:45   Link #1276
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Shrade can't die until he does gattai with Cayenne. Fact.

(PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE MAKE IT TRUE)
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Old 2012-02-12, 07:10   Link #1277
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Apollonious and Apollo are the same person. That's the problem with your theory. You keep trying to separate them. It isn't impossible that Both Amata and Kagura are the reincarnation of Apollonious, which makes them the reincarnation of Apollo as well. One cannot be the reincarnation of Apollo and the other the reincarnation of Apollonius. That is the impossible thing. Actually Apollo never remarked on Sirius scent but he had the same type of relationship with Sirus as he did with Silvia (minus the kissing). Wolves can smell their own scent. It's how they mark their territory, it's how they find their way home. Apollo could smell Apollonious he said his scent was the same as all the other DaTenshi Yes Apollo did call out to Aquarion, and Kagura also recognized "The wings of the sun" and Aquarion

Kagura hasn't had a personality transfer--true, but he's also never piloted Aquarion either. Apollo could smell himself and Apollonius ...
Apollo also said he'd never forget her smell, he feels as if he's always known him and Mikono also said that she felt that he had feelings for her before, despite knowing him. She has never ever said that about Amata.. Amata doesn't smell her either..which is why I think he's a false soul and not a real one or he's a small part of Apollon...but for the most part Kagura is

Fuck what time does it air, why won't anyone tell me
Either way I don't personally see him as a faux main character, he gets far too much advertising in the promotion of the show (typically being him and the girls), and far too much screen, for the author to logically switch within the 20 or so episodes. So even if he isn't I still see him as the most important character in this. There's no rule that Apollo "must" be the main character in this, and his relationships are the the driving force. The show's onlly had one 20 ep season and a OVa, I don't think that's enough backstory to draw absolutes from.
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Old 2012-02-12, 07:17   Link #1278
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Originally Posted by LoveMeKags View Post

See that in the OP, he has no wings. Rather, it looks like a trace of an animal.
That imagery just screams "I am cyber-Apollonius from planet cyber-tron" (or cyber-Apollo), looks like digital/synthetic wings to me. Good catch to on Mikono looking injured in the OP, I hadn't noticed that but she looks more scuffed-and-exhausted than sad, per se. Very interesting.

And yes, Schrade is too fabulous to die so soon. I just hope Sanzanka survives the Schrade-Cayenne gattai.
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Old 2012-02-12, 08:56   Link #1279
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Shrade can't die until he does gattai with Cayenne. Fact.
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Originally Posted by miketyson View Post
And yes, Schrade is too fabulous to die so soon. I just hope Sanzanka survives the Schrade-Cayenne gattai.
Gattais that will happen. You know they will.

Amata/Mikono/Zessica.

Cayenne/Shrade/Sazanka..........okay, maybe not this one, since Donnar has already stated that Amata is pretty much set as the default pilot for Vector Z so he's there to Sousei Gattai into Aquarion EVOL. But it wouldn't be far-fetched for a situation to arise where Amata is unavailable....

And the reason Andy has been getting booted out of Sousei Gattais is because his first time will be with MIX. You know it. (sexual innuendo fully intended )
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Old 2012-02-12, 09:11   Link #1280
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And the reason Andy has been getting booted out of Sousei Gattais is because his first time will be with MIX. You know it. (sexual innuendo fully intended )
He's going to find the weakness of the hole that she's filled? Oh boy, you can spin that into all sorts of meanings.
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