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Old 2012-02-11, 13:41   Link #1841
leorodri100
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i made this while i was eating in other words 7 minutes ago, it sucks, cuz its a sketch made in a moment of rage. now i'm reading the new comments...so even in the novel it was only implied....meh...now i can only expect toothbrush...

Spoiler:

Last edited by leorodri100; 2012-02-12 at 08:27.
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Old 2012-02-11, 19:02   Link #1842
Romanticide
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Why not post that in the image thread instead of here?
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Last edited by Romanticide; 2012-02-11 at 23:33.
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Old 2012-02-11, 22:03   Link #1843
Masuzu
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^ It was made in a fit of rage, no time to think.
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Old 2012-02-12, 07:30   Link #1844
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Quote:
Originally Posted by omimon View Post
I have been seeing some people denying Araragi's sisconism so I think I should collect his "doings":
-Toothbrush (enough said)
-Kissing them on the lips
-Feet licking, breast touching
-Wishing he could change the laws so that he could be with them
-Carrying each other on their shoulders

I might be missing some so add if you can.
And all these however rare can be done between friends and family without any romantic or sexual desire.

Anyway, just finished Kizumonogatari chapter 8 It seems Koyomi is really afraid of the ramifications for desiring to feel Tsubasa's tits ... Poor boy
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Old 2012-02-12, 07:57   Link #1845
omimon
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Originally Posted by Malkuth View Post
And all these however rare can be done between friends and family without any romantic or sexual desire.

Anyway, just finished Kizumonogatari chapter 8 It seems Koyomi is really afraid of the ramifications for desiring to feel Tsubasa's tits ... Poor boy
Even toothbrush!? Also when he said he wants to change the law I'm pretty sure there was "some" sexual desire.
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Old 2012-02-12, 08:17   Link #1846
leorodri100
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i would like to know how the fire sisters feel about araragi...
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Old 2012-02-12, 08:19   Link #1847
Malkuth
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Quote:
Originally Posted by omimon View Post
Even toothbrush!?
Even shaving, should I reverse the roles

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Originally Posted by omimon View Post
Also when he said he wants to change the law I'm pretty sure there was "some" sexual desire.
Look, letting aside that Koyomi is such a horny virgin and probably could view/describe sexually even a cow (and then fap with "koukou josei pantsu" to protect her chastity); law is not a problem in maintaining an incestuous relationship, his masochistic nature is another story
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Old 2012-02-12, 09:50   Link #1848
omimon
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Originally Posted by Malkuth View Post
Even shaving, should I reverse the roles



Look, letting aside that Koyomi is such a horny virgin and probably could view/describe sexually even a cow (and then fap with "koukou josei pantsu" to protect her chastity); law is not a problem in maintaining an incestuous relationship, his masochistic nature is another story
So basically the only way you'll agree that he is a siscon and carries sexual feeling for his sisters is if there is actual sex between him and them?
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Old 2012-02-12, 10:13   Link #1849
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^ or either of them tries to.

It's one thing to be close to someone, which might be expressed in the ways you mentioned, but does not necessarily imply any sexual desire, and given how Koyomi sees girls (judging by the way he thinks in the novel) it is very easy to misinterpret it... of course he might be a sis-con, loli-con, meme-con afterall, but except for Hitagi and Tsubasa he has never shown any clear sexual/romantic intentions towards the rest of the cast

EDIT: Back on Kizu- I still can not get the ending of chapter 8 out of my head ah! I have to watch your movie ASAP, Tsubasa-sama

Last edited by Malkuth; 2012-02-12 at 10:16. Reason: kizu
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Old 2012-02-12, 10:42   Link #1850
omimon
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Originally Posted by Malkuth View Post
^ or either of them tries to.

It's one thing to be close to someone, which might be expressed in the ways you mentioned, but does not necessarily imply any sexual desire, and given how Koyomi sees girls (judging by the way he thinks in the novel) it is very easy to misinterpret it... of course he might be a sis-con, loli-con, meme-con afterall, but except for Hitagi and Tsubasa he has never shown any clear sexual/romantic intentions towards the rest of the cast

EDIT: Back on Kizu- I still can not get the ending of chapter 8 out of my head ah! I have to watch your movie ASAP, Tsubasa-sama
You're not 100% familiar with the toothbrush then I see.
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Old 2012-02-12, 10:58   Link #1851
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No, only bake, kizu (LN 1-8), nise (TV 1-6), I am judging from these and some spoilers I have unfortunately read over the years

By the way did you along with shikijin translate kizu on Bakatsuki?
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Old 2012-02-12, 13:01   Link #1852
leorodri100
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errmm from what i read in the toothbrush scene translated in this thread...it was sexual desire...and big one...from both sides.
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Old 2012-02-12, 13:07   Link #1853
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^ you know when we* translate, we* occasionally project our* own fetishes

* judging from myself
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Old 2012-02-12, 16:35   Link #1854
ickem
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^ you know when we* translate, we* occasionally project our* own fetishes

* judging from myself
Don't mind omimon, he likes stirring things up, particularly when involves his anti-Hitagi views.

On a more serious note, it's really hard to label Koyomi since the Monogatari series has so many gags. I don't think we can take most of his fetishes too seriously because of that. Nishio Isshin seems to be doing commentary on trends in anime/manga/games so just goes way over the top when he portrays them in the novels. Whats kinda interesting is that things like the toothbrush scene are described in detail while his having sex with Hitagi was only hinted at. Even their kisses are only alluded to. I guess their relationship is too "normal" to be shown onscreen so we are left with the "deviant" scenes.
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Old 2012-02-13, 02:21   Link #1855
omimon
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Originally Posted by Malkuth View Post
No, only bake, kizu (LN 1-8), nise (TV 1-6), I am judging from these and some spoilers I have unfortunately read over the years

By the way did you along with shikijin translate kizu on Bakatsuki?
Yeah we did but we also take our translating very seriously so unless we did it unconsciously no fetishes have been projected.
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Old 2012-02-13, 03:04   Link #1856
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Quote:
Originally Posted by omimon View Post
Yeah we did but we also take our translating very seriously so unless we did it unconsciously no fetishes have been projected.
Cool, I'm using it to cross-check what I think I understand from the original

You should have kept the original page numbers though

But that as well as fixing singular/plural, some pronouns and tenses were your editor's jobs anyway... so yeah... thanks for translating it

By the way, whether the translator's opinion alters or not the original is not a matter of how serious or professional he is. Plus, I did not had japanese in mind when writing it (I am nowhere near the level to have an opinion for specific translations in this language), but "Sein und Zeit" and "άbermensch" which I read translated in greek, english, and finally the originals in german; and both translations led to diverging conclusions depending on the ideology of the translator/author, especially when a part could have political implications... greek one came from the communist party, american from ultra-conservative neo-liberals, and the authors were members or ideologically close to fascism.

In japanese I guess it is easier to guide the readers thoughts to certain assumptions/conclusions based on the choice of words, especially when over-localizing the translation.

Also translating literature and philosophy is really tricky, unlike math and natural sciences where there is no room for interpretations
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Old 2012-02-13, 03:44   Link #1857
Shikijin
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Cool, I'm using it to cross-check what I think I understand from the original
Just in case, I remind you to use the version on the website, not the one in pdf. The first chapters were full of errors before I corrected them. And I still have to finish checking chapters 4-7 (actually, I wanted to do a full check). My part starts from chapter 8.
Quote:
By the way, whether the translator's opinion alters or not the original is not a matter of how serious or professional he is.
I am a fan of Hanekawa, if that's what you wanted to know
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In japanese I guess it is easier to guide the readers thoughts to certain assumptions/conclusions based on the choice of words, especially when over-localizing the translation.
Considering this was my first experience in translating from Japanese to English (and I was just learning Japanese, and Kizu was my third Japanese book), I don't know if I really had way to subconsciously influence my translation If you have doubts about the translation of some sentences just tell me.
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Old 2012-02-13, 04:26   Link #1858
Malkuth
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shikijin View Post
Just in case, I remind you to use the version on the website, not the one in pdf. The first chapters were full of errors before I corrected them. And I still have to finish checking chapters 4-7 (actually, I wanted to do a full check). My part starts from chapter 8.
I am using the pdf, but I'll try to keep notes when I notice an english error, but since it's not my native language, just take what I say with skepticism

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Originally Posted by Shikijin View Post
I am a fan of Hanekawa, if that's what you wanted to know
Not really, but it's good to know that Monogatari does not have only Hitagi fans, and lolicons as its audience

By the way, I guess it is/was obvious that I am also her fan, but reading Kizumonogatari I think I upgraded from fan to her slave

...and we really need a thread for her epic moments:

Spoiler for kizu ch.9/10:


Quote:
Originally Posted by Shikijin View Post
Considering this was my first experience in translating from Japanese to English (and I was just learning Japanese, and Kizu was my third Japanese book), I don't know if I really had way to subconsciously influence my translation If you have doubts about the translation of some sentences just tell me.
Hehe, Kizu is the first novel I am reading on paper, up until now is just manga or txt with rikaichan and more advanced friends. So yeah don't expect for me helping translating anytime soon, I just noticed some errors in english, basically grammar, which is totally understandable before editing.

Anyway, since now I am midway in Kizu- (after a month of trying to learn a shitload of kanji compounds) a quick question concerning the series... Neko- Kuro and Shiro do not have some overlapping storyline... I think I read somewhere that Kuro is the end of the first Monogatari series and Shiro the beginning of the second part. Kuro basically narrates Tsubasa's Golden Week, while Shiro picks up the story from where Nise- stops, right?
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Old 2012-02-13, 07:01   Link #1859
Shikijin
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Originally Posted by Malkuth View Post
I am using the pdf, but I'll try to keep notes when I notice an english error, but since it's not my native language, just take what I say with skepticism
Don't worry, English is not my native language either

Anyway, there was, among others, a big error in the second chapter when Araragi says that "if you make a friend, your strength as a human will decrease" (which was previously rendered with "It's because I am not good at making friends"). This line was also mentioned in ep 6 of Nise (the CR translator used "intensity" instead of "strength").
Quote:
Not really, but it's good to know that Monogatari does not have only Hitagi fans, and lolicons as its audience
And the siscons. Don't forget the siscons
Quote:
By the way, I guess it is/was obvious that I am also her fan, but reading Kizumonogatari I think I upgraded from fan to her slave
She doesn't seem the kind of person to have slaves, but maybe disciples are fine...
Quote:
...and we really need a thread for her epic moments:
And you still haven't read the later chapters
Quote:
Hehe, Kizu is the first novel I am reading on paper, up until now is just manga or txt with rikaichan and more advanced friends. So yeah don't expect for me helping translating anytime soon, I just noticed some errors in english, basically grammar, which is totally understandable before editing.
This is from my personal experience, but you don't learn kanji as fast while reading a book. It's better to learn first how to write radicals, so you can memorize the graphical part of the kanji faster. Then download the pdf from kanjidamage, it teaches you the most basic things you need to know from the kanji and it shows how similar kanji have similar pronunciation, which helps a lot. After you have learned most of kanji then you can picking up things by reading.
Quote:
Anyway, since now I am midway in Kizu- (after a month of trying to learn a shitload of kanji compounds) a quick question concerning the series... Neko- Kuro and Shiro do not have some overlapping storyline... I think I read somewhere that Kuro is the end of the first Monogatari series and Shiro the beginning of the second part. Kuro basically narrates Tsubasa's Golden Week, while Shiro picks up the story from where Nise- stops, right?
Yes, you are correct.
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Old 2012-02-13, 09:39   Link #1860
Malkuth
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shikijin View Post
And the siscons. Don't forget the siscons
I group Nadeko, Tsukihi, and Karen fans together with loli-Kisshot ones

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Originally Posted by Shikijin View Post
She doesn't seem the kind of person to have slaves, but maybe disciples are fine...
She is a good "servant" herself afterall

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Originally Posted by Shikijin View Post
And you still haven't read the later chapters
Don't spoil yet, considering the opening of Bekemonogatari, I expect a lot more epic moments coming form Tsubasa and Shinobu+19

And there is still Neko/Kuro

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shikijin View Post
This is from my personal experience, but you don't learn kanji as fast while reading a book. It's better to learn first how to write radicals, so you can memorize the graphical part of the kanji faster. Then download the pdf from kanjidamage, it teaches you the most basic things you need to know from the kanji and it shows how similar kanji have similar pronunciation, which helps a lot. After you have learned most of kanji then you can picking up things by reading.
What I ended up doing is this
  1. have a quick read of the paper book, looking up a few kanji by radical
  2. read carefully the txt version with rikaichan, basically for grammar
  3. crosscheck with the pdf translation
  4. write down interesting experts in both languages
Not the most efficient way of learning, but damn interesting, and useful considering my other current NSFW hobby
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