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Old 2012-02-09, 13:35   Link #781
Vicious108
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The only point I've made was pertaining the issue of Hisoka wearing Geretta's hat, which I've consistently backed up. In fact, I was the last person to address it. Toto has not posted since and everyone else has swayed the discussion towards ethics and the integrity of the posters involved.

Now, said backing up might be unsatisfactory to you, but I don't think I need to say that I don't care whether you label me right or wrong. Especially when you haven't even attempted to discuss the actual show yourself. I'll back up my claim to Toto, not to vicarious and white knighting busybodies. This has gotten out of hand enough as it is.
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Old 2012-02-09, 14:14   Link #782
Toto y Moi
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Originally Posted by Endless Twilight View Post
You really don't see how that line might appear to be a negative assessment of the show? The usage of "supposed" clearly implies that it didn't really succeed at what it was trying to do. And then you go on to praise the 2011 series' unsettling tone for the scene, which is exactly what the 1999 series was going for with the hat. So yeah, to me it's pretty clear that was intended as one of many insults, or at best really patronizing praise.
But I don't even use the word "supposed"--I used the word "intended," which means something else entirely and by no means is pejorative. I'm talking about the intent of the directors when adapting the scene. How is it an insult to say that a scene is intended to be cute?

The tone in each respective version of the scene are all similar, but also different. Though Hisoka wears a dead man's hat in the 1999 series, it lacks the visual power of having death visibly present during the scene. This element is present in both the manga and 2011 series (though the manga's version is much more explicitly done) and intended to be considered seriously, albeit their brevity. I don't think that it's an insult to point out that the 1999 series doesn't always necessarily carry the exact same tone.

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Originally Posted by Endless Twilight View Post
I just did. Can't be bothered to do it for every little thing though, since ultimately I only care so much that someone on the Internet is attempting to partially destroy the reputation of a series I greatly enjoyed. Mostly I did it because it's quite clear that there are people out there who've never even watched the original anime adaptation, but have convinced themselves they're watching the superior version with this 2011 adaptation based solely on your (in my view) rather one-sided reviews.

But I'm afraid you're a lot more devoted towards and willing to spend more time on defending your preferred version than I am, so I'll just leave it at the issue of your assessment of the 1999 series' decision to have Hisoka wear Geretta's hat.
See, this is what I'm talking about--you see my comparisons as me antagonizing the 1999 series or trying to destroy its reputation. That's not even a little true. My intent is to compare the differences in the series to the manga. I note when things are adapted faithfully or unfaithfully in any version. If there are differences in tone or character interactions, I'll note them. You've been looking at my comments as if I've been saying one version is "better" than the other instead of considering which one is "closer to the manga/Togashi's writing/art style."

I think that Furuhashi does a pretty great job at adapting the series--particularly in the later parts. He excels at directing "dark" scenes and moody atmosphere (as evidenced by his work in the Kyoto arc/OVAs in Rurouni Kenshin), which really starts to rear its head in the series near the end of the Hunter Exam arc. But his attempts at applying his own style in many episodes of the first arc lead to stark differences in series continuity, characterization, and tone. I think that these are important to discuss, because those are the most major ways in which the two animated series are different.

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Originally Posted by Endless Twilight View Post
Great, now you're being patronizing not towards the 1999 anime, but towards me. Look, Hisoka's my favourite character in the series, I know what he's like. I've read through the manga twice (admittedly not the official translations, but then again I don't give Viz Media enough credit for it to make a significant difference) and watched both anime adaptations. Just because I described him as a bloodthirsty killer in that particular sentence doesn't mean I believe that encapsulates his entire being. He's a multidimensional and multifaceted character, if I had to refer every single aspect of his individual every time I brought him up I would never get to the point.

Look, I'm aware of what your main problem with the 1999 series is (at least I believe that I am, but go ahead and correct me if I'm wrong). You believe it made everything more black and white, instead of staying true to the open minded moral stance displayed in the manga. But unless you actually believe that Hisoka's not bloodthirsty or that he doesn't kill (in which case you would obviously be wrong), I see no reason as to why I need to educate myself on his character before engaging in a conversation about him with you.
The amount of offense you took to me calling Hisoka wearing Geretta's hat "cute" implied that you largely see him as a "bloodthirsty killer," which is something that is often solely conveyed in the early parts of the 1999 series. I wouldn't have suggested that you read the manga had it been apparent that you've noticed Hisoka's "cute" moments as well.

And yes, Viz Media's translation makes a very significant difference. Their translation is the only one you'll find that will match nuance and speaking patterns in a way that transitions smoothly enough to English. Simply put, reading their translation will give you an understanding of the Hunter x Hunter manga in a way that the scanlations online can never hope to compare to--especially considering that the only available scanlations online have been translated into English from the French adaptation instead of the original Japanese. As someone who has read the series in both English and Japanese, I'll back this up anytime I can.

And I don't have a "main problem" with the 1999 series. I think that there are differences between the adaptation and the manga that lead to differences and potential problems in the future; by no means is this limited to any adaptation's stance on morality.
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Old 2012-02-09, 15:59   Link #783
Daniel E.
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Ok people, please take a moment and try to chill out. The moment you stop talking about the show and start talking about the people posting here, it's the moment you are all going off topic.

Please get back on topic.
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Old 2012-02-09, 19:12   Link #784
Daisuki-chan
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Maybe the 2011 anime is more canon with some of the characterization (the various random magic Hisoka has no canon reason to be able to perform and how he was very much more just defending himself instead of proactively playing a murderous examiner earlier are for example quite stupid to me, and in this anime greatly hurt my enjoyment of his character, which I greatly enjoy in the manga and 1999 anime), but I find it hard to enjoy what characterization may be better given the poor music endemic to this series, and also because I care more about plot anyway.

Cutting Kaito from the beginning affects characterization regarding Gon's knowledge of his father/hunters and what that means to him as well, as well as being a large hole in the plot relative to the canon, which will have to be filled in later (and I really doubt a flashback will have the same impact as having this in its proper, canon place, especially given other issues I have), assuming this anime gets that far.

"Merging" Menchi's exam into Buhara's removed all depth from her character (not that I like her much anyway) and removed all subtlety and intelligence (on the part of the characters, who I much prefer to hear the thoughts of than a random narrator; this also plays into characterization for me) from her exam. The censorship of Killua's fight in Trick Tower retarded my enjoyment by a lot, too, as I greatly enjoyed the canon version in the 1999 anime.

Two of the issues (no Kaito, no real Menchi/her exam) I mentioned above make it irritating when time is wasted on filler (whether Gon and Killua being eaten by the frog...very stupid given their obvious superiority in canon over the nameless tards being trapped and killed at that time, or needlessly and painfully extending the time spent in the story on the time they had to spend in that room in the tower, and let's not forget the totally worthless clip show episode either) which has never been any good to me at all. The 1999 anime had some negative filler, but much of what was added worked well for me, of course very especially the two battleship island episodes.

I also can't remember anything more major than the showing of Hisoka vs. Kastro being cut due to censorship (something the new anime has much more of, and often in a way that stands out stupidly rather than blending in well enough) being removed in the 1999 anime, which I've watched four times, and even that was not actually truly removed from the plot, as what happened in relation to it came up normally right afterwards. Maybe these issues are few in number compared to all of the not infrequently highly subjective deviations from canon mentioned in comparisons, but they matter a great deal to me and thus can easily outweigh even hundreds of trivial changes.

Taking away canon and adding filler are simply not the same to me. I haven't watched much of it, but I know Naruto's [first] anime is nearly pure filler in the second half. Nonetheless if it included 100% of canon I would consider it more canon that an alternate Naruto that removes a "mere" 5% of canon and only adds a moderate amount of filler. The 1999 Hunter X Hunter anime didn't add that great a quantity of filler, and given that it wasn't all bad and even had amazing parts to it, in contrast to the solely useless or bad filler in the 2011 anime, it should be easy to understand that I don't honestly consider this new anime to be that highly canon at all.

The music in this version is just poor to me and really sucks the life out of scenes, and does so rather consistently. It also helps to enforce the high level of "shounenness" the time slot for this anime "demands", whereas the 1999 anime was darker, more subtle most of the time, and thus has more "seinen" appeal to me, something the manga also has quite a lot of; perhaps more and more over time. In contrast the 1999 anime had music I enjoyed a good deal, which I felt to express well a feeling of adventure (something I enjoy), among other things. I care about music a lot so this is one of the biggest factors to me for these anime, which contrast highly on this to me. The voice acting is also commonly clearly inferior to me in the new anime for side characters and also for Hisoka.

The 1999 anime also had suspense quite often, and maybe this was easier to accomplish due to drawing out the pacing for a fair while at first (including too much for me towards the very beginning, although me not much liking the filler then is the main factor in my feelings on those episodes), but what's there is there, and the 2011 anime simply lacks suspense over and over again to me, and when you combine this with crappy music and all the rest I simply find it hard to get into this version much anymore. It's been well over a cour's worth of episodes and improvement hasn't been nearly extreme enough to me, and most of that improvement is simply due to me enjoying certain exams more than others.

Last edited by Daisuki-chan; 2012-02-11 at 06:29. Reason: "most of that" --> "most of that improvement" for clarification
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Old 2012-02-11, 06:58   Link #785
Poky
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The Ost has finally been uploaded and it turns out to be better than I expected.
This particular song has catched my attention, because it reminds of something similar that I can't recall.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YuodxioCEYo
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Old 2012-02-11, 08:14   Link #786
Dengar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daisuki-chan View Post
Lots and lots of unbased random assumptions about the 1999-series being "canon".
I don't understand where your arguments are coming from. So far, the anime has been progressing exactly as the manga did. Not once has anything major been left out, and the only things being "added" are minor scenes to fill up the time of the episode.

In the manga, Kaito was not introduced until much later in the story, and also, the food exam went exactly the way it did in the manga. The 1999 series simply added extra fluff so as to not overtake the manga. Which it ended up doing despite that.
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Old 2012-02-11, 14:36   Link #787
Exophase
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Originally Posted by Dengar View Post
I don't understand where your arguments are coming from. So far, the anime has been progressing exactly as the manga did. Not once has anything major been left out, and the only things being "added" are minor scenes to fill up the time of the episode.

In the manga, Kaito was not introduced until much later in the story, and also, the food exam went exactly the way it did in the manga. The 1999 series simply added extra fluff so as to not overtake the manga. Which it ended up doing despite that.
Kaito is introduced in chapter 1 where he saves Gon from a Kitsune-guma. He even shows up on the hunter spread in page 2. Menchi's sushi test starts on chapter 11, page 6. Like in the 1999 anime, Menchi rejects everyone's initial attempts, then Hanzo screws up her plans by shouting out the ingredients.

I suggest you read the manga again, because I think the new anime is affecting how you're remembering it..

Last edited by Exophase; 2012-02-11 at 22:30.
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Old 2012-02-11, 20:50   Link #788
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Fair enough. I stand corrected. It HAS been quite a while. A lot of things added up with my recollections so I guess I just "filled in the gaps".

I just remember that the story actually did start with Gon fishing, rather than Gon being a kid and getting lost in the forest or somewhat.
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Old 2012-02-12, 00:24   Link #789
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Old 2012-02-12, 02:32   Link #790
Guardian Enzo
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Old 2012-02-12, 03:40   Link #791
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Gon is so unreasonable and stubborn and to deliver a cheap shot like is just despicable. If Hanzo was any more evil, he could have done much more damage than that. Even if he did not surrender, thats fine. Worst to worst he could have let him bleed till he is close to death then give up. Gon will be dead and he still got another chance.
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Old 2012-02-12, 05:40   Link #792
Reckoner
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I caved in and decided to read the manga (And no I don't regret it, in fact I am glad I did), so now my perspective on the anime changes a bit.

But even as an anime viewer I was worried about some of the earlier censoring but this really takes the cake... I mean ffs, they censored an arm breaking? If they are censoring that measly bit of violence now, I cannot help but feel terrified of all the censoring down the road for this show.

I'm starting to see why people have complained a little about the music, as the manga feels comparability much darker.

Still Hunter x Hunter is good enough anyways... I just really hope they realize what kind of audience they should be gearing this towards since there is like no point in my eyes censoring it so much considering somethings down the road...
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Old 2012-02-12, 06:45   Link #793
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A fight where he can't lose, and you can't win. Well, it might have just been faster for baldy to find another opponent.
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Old 2012-02-12, 08:15   Link #794
Toto y Moi
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Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
But even as an anime viewer I was worried about some of the earlier censoring but this really takes the cake... I mean ffs, they censored an arm breaking? If they are censoring that measly bit of violence now, I cannot help but feel terrified of all the censoring down the road for this show.
Actually, that scene was done exactly as it was in the manga. Gon gets his arm broken off-screen. A lot of the violence from episode 28 in the 1999 series was filler (though it was really good for setting the tone, it sort of makes Hanzo seem like a bad guy in its direction).
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Old 2012-02-12, 14:20   Link #795
ars89
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Wow so only 1 person loses. Interesting how Gon and Hanzo were ranked the top 2. Oh man Killua is pissed because he feels he got disrespected with the rankings. Of course Gon and Leorio wouldn't notice that examiners were following them in the last stage. Like how Leorio and Kurapika were about to go in and save him. Was worried at the beginning , but Gon's stubbornness pulled him trough. That really was rough, but at least he passed now and is fine.
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Old 2012-02-13, 00:32   Link #796
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Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo View Post
Spoiler for GAR-fest 19:
I'm pretty sure Hanzo did notice that it's a test of will, but took it as a challenge to break someone's will rather than a test of his own. I mean, the first thing he did was ask the ref to clarify the rules and then commented that it would be difficult (because it's Gon). Hanzo knew exactly what he was up against, but really he had no choice but to try.
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Old 2012-02-13, 08:43   Link #797
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Very impressive episode. Of course I enjoyed how dark the original series displayed this fight, though I also like how this version didn't alter it's self from the show we've been watching for the past 4 months. It still delivered the right amount if impact we need to see for it to work. Plus, I'm pleased without the amount of blood that was displayed on Gon and the arena floor. That also did a good job at setting the right mood.

& of course, the comedy was there. Hanzo's bloody nose was hilarious as ever.
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Old 2012-02-13, 15:59   Link #798
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Gon/Hanzo fight really pissed me off when I watched it in old series. I'm not for violence but Gon pissed me off really bad here. The kid has no fighting abilities and demands for Hanzo to go easy on him. Yes, changing rules himself "Let's find different way to fight" is asking to make the guy go easy on him. In competition of such high class for such important title this is unheard of!

This fight was seriously unfair... I really started to wish for Hanzo to be a bad person so he would break every bone in Gon's body and if the kid doesn't give up, then give up himself. Because let's face it. With every bone broken at the same time there are almost no chances of Gon's body to function properly in the future. He would end up as disabled and would be totally useless so getting Hunter rank would be pointless.

That's why I hate competitions between adults and kids because judges always sympathize with kids more and give them higher marks.

Gon's win is undeserved. There is difference between being brave and stupid and Gon was stupid. He really is lucky that Hanzo was a nice person inside. And he is even more lucky that he is main character, be it someone else Hanzo would most likely continue the abuse.

I only got till episode 36 in old series so far. All I can say is that if Gon won't learn to fight, I'll seriously hate his guts. His power of friendship is far more ridiculous than in Naruto and it doesn't help that Gon in old version has the same seiyu as Naruto.
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Old 2012-02-13, 16:29   Link #799
Guardian Enzo
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The way I see it, Gon outsmarted Hanzo. He figured out that by the rules of the game, as long as he didn't surrender he would eventually win. Hanzo couldn't figure out a way to make him surrender, so he cut his losses and surrendered himself. Gon played the game better than Hanzo - tough break.
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Old 2012-02-13, 17:11   Link #800
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The way I see it, Gon outsmarted Hanzo. He figured out that by the rules of the game, as long as he didn't surrender he would eventually win.
I think you're misunderstanding Gon's character. Gon didn't outsmart Hanzo, he just simply didn't want to give up. It's that simple.
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