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Old 2012-02-16, 11:24   Link #241
SoldierOfDarkness
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Join Date: Dec 2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
As I keep saying, if you pretend all three films are "G.I.Joe: guest-staring the Transformers", the films do work.

It's just that the way the American military have been forced into the plot had become so ridiculous, that there is barely any room left for transformers themselves. You could even say they are no more than weapons wielded by the Americans to crush their enemies. Let's just say the Japanese were rather freaked out at how Optimus carried himself in the last film, and outright calling him no different then a Decepticon.

In the end, that's the best Hollywood had to offer. It's all they got.
I've always wondered about that. Would Bay or anyone have a say in that matter?

I mean in order for him to depict military action scenes he needs access to military vehicles which come from the US military so obviously he has to showboat them. (US propaganda) and this helps out with the budget. I mean that's why most of the autobots were GM vehicles right?

On that end I found the US military a tad too powerful and convenient. There were cases where I was wondering why they kept saying "OMG we need the autobots" because really....they could've beaten the decepticons without the Autobots at all. Granted more would die but then so what?

Then there were cases with Starscream. I mean the first movie was ok since he provided aerial support but was driven off through sheer numers but in the 2nd and 3rd it was like...where the hell are you?
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Old 2012-02-16, 11:40   Link #242
Renegade334
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness View Post
I mean in order for him to depict military action scenes he needs access to military vehicles which come from the US military so obviously he has to showboat them. (US propaganda) and this helps out with the budget. I mean that's why most of the autobots were GM vehicles right?
Product placement and sponsoring do indeed help lighten the bill. Everybody wins. Just look at what Top Gun did for the US Navy.

The Pentagon gave Michael Bay leave to use some of its assets (it even sacrificed some of the mock-up tanks used in Red Flag exercises for the SOCCENT attack, when those burning tanks go tumbling in midair), but as far as I can tell, the only restrictions Bay was forced to abide by was that he couldn't either film some pieces of hardware from certain angles (the F22) or some real-life protocols had to be correctly acted out on the big screen (the example he used, if I'm not mistaken, was when the IT girl barged in on the SecDef's little SITREP session to argue that the hacking problem was caused by something no less powerful than a quantum computer -- in real life, that girl wouldn't have been able to do so and the Pentagon was adamant in pointing that out).

Aside from that, the Pentagon has little say over what is shown, unless it paints the armed forces in a bad way (which became an issue in the Hurt Locker, if memory serves well).

Quote:
On that end I found the US military a tad too powerful and convenient. There were cases where I was wondering why they kept saying "OMG we need the autobots" because really....they could've beaten the decepticons without the Autobots at all. Granted more would die but then so what?
The US reinforcements in RotF were still bloodied beyond recognition when the Fallen pulled that levitation trick of his. I mean, at the end, pretty much only infantrymen were left - the tanks and MLRS launchers were good for the scrap yard.

Granted, there is that railgun on the Arleigh Burke destroyer (whose existence is only explained in the comics, but never in the movie), but for some reason it was never fired again.

And in DotM the USAF got clobbered by the Decepticons' line of defense (NEST lost more than 60-75% of its ground troops, too, during the airdrop scene) erected around Chicago. Much of the heavy firepower shown in the last battle (aside from the Tomahawk strike) was provided by the Autobots (esp. the Wreckers).

But I'm still surprised the Pentagon didn't cringe while watching all three movies - I mean, they lost (on the big screen, I mean) the SOCCENT base plus an entire aircraft carrier (some USN bigwigs must've had a heart attack at that moment), plus a USMC contingent, a dozen F22s and MV22s...

I'm actually surprised the Pentagon doesn't hate Bay instead of being fond of him - I mean, he makes them suffer so much on-screen... XD

Quote:
Then there were cases with Starscream. I mean the first movie was ok since he provided aerial support but was driven off through sheer numers but in the 2nd and 3rd it was like...where the hell are you?
Starscream IMHO got sidelined by other members of the cast, especially the Fallen, Soundwave and Shockwave - they pretty much ate up the screentime that should've been devoted to him. Though...he did get some more screentime
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Last edited by Renegade334; 2012-02-16 at 11:51.
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Old 2012-02-16, 12:20   Link #243
SoldierOfDarkness
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Renegade334 View Post
The Pentagon gave Michael Bay leave to use some of its assets (it even sacrificed some of the mock-up tanks used in Red Flag exercises for the SOCCENT attack, when those burning tanks go tumbling in midair), but as far as I can tell, the only restrictions Bay was forced to abide by was that he couldn't either film some pieces of hardware from certain angles (the F22) or some real-life protocols had to be correctly acted out on the big screen (the example he used, if I'm not mistaken, was when the IT girl barged in on the SecDef's little SITREP session to argue that the hacking problem was caused by something no less powerful than a quantum computer -- in real life, that girl wouldn't have been able to do so and the Pentagon was adamant in pointing that out).

Aside from that, the Pentagon has little say over what is shown, unless it paints the armed forces in a bad way (which became an issue in the Hurt Locker, if memory serves well).
Even then as others have said the movies felt like an advertisment for the US military.

Quote:
The US reinforcements in RotF were still bloodied beyond recognition when the Fallen pulled that levitation trick of his. I mean, at the end, pretty much only infantrymen were left - the tanks and MLRS launchers were good for the scrap yard.
Which was after the Fallen got involved. Prior to that the US military was decimating the Decepticons and for some reason had air superiority in that battle. Again where was Starscream the whole time? He could've fought off those F-14's.

Quote:
Granted, there is that railgun on the Arleigh Burke destroyer (whose existence is only explained in the comics, but never in the movie), but for some reason it was never fired again.
That's what annoyed me. The greatest decepticon taken down by a railgun that just so happened to be in that area.

Quote:
And in DotM the USAF got clobbered by the Decepticons' line of defense (NEST lost more than 60-75% of its ground troops, too, during the airdrop scene) erected around Chicago. Much of the heavy firepower shown in the last battle (aside from the Tomahawk strike) was provided by the Autobots (esp. the Wreckers).
That is only half of my complaints. A large portion of that battle was dedicated to NEST and the US military. There were times when I was wondering "Where are the hell are the autobots?" And the only losses they suffered were when they were going in. After that it was smooth sailing.

I was apalled when the Decepticons were taken down so easily by soldiers with sniper rifles and grenades. Yes I know they did training and such but I just cringed in those scenes. Those kills belonged to the Autobots and Starscream died in such a pathetic way. These are alien robots that have existed for millions of years with highly advanced tech but are so damn vulnerable.

I mean I would rather have the humans as an annoyance with the Autobots doing the actual killing.

I guess that was my main issue. The only transformers that had any reasonable screen time was Sentinel, Optimus, and bumblee with the others just there. Even Megatron was horrible. Dark of the Moon IMO was the better one but still..

Quote:
But I'm still surprised the Pentagon didn't cringe while watching all three movies - I mean, they lost (on the big screen, I mean) the SOCCENT base plus an entire aircraft carrier (some USN bigwigs must've had a heart attack at that moment), plus a USMC contingent, a dozen F22s and MV22s...

I'm actually surprised the Pentagon doesn't hate Bay instead of being fond of him - I mean, he makes them suffer so much on-screen... XD
Probably because he had them do so many awesome things in the movie so it balanced out.

Regardless, if that's the case then no matter what Live action transformer movie we get it'll always be like this with humans doing 90% of the fighting. As VCV stated, it literally WAS GJ Joe: guest starring the Transformers.

Last edited by SoldierOfDarkness; 2012-02-16 at 12:35.
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Old 2012-02-16, 18:33   Link #244
Spectacular_Insanity
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Renegade334 View Post
Uh...

I might be wrong, but Jetfire was only a Seeker, not the commander of the Deceptions (the Fallen himself, followed much later on by his descendant Megatron). Jetfire was just an underling who trusted his master too much and realized the consequences of his actions too late.
I thought he said he was one of the founders of the Decepticons.
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Old 2012-02-16, 20:54   Link #245
Mr. DJ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness View Post
I was apalled when the Decepticons were taken down so easily by soldiers with sniper rifles and grenades. Yes I know they did training and such but I just cringed in those scenes. Those kills belonged to the Autobots and Starscream died in such a pathetic way. These are alien robots that have existed for millions of years with highly advanced tech but are so damn vulnerable.
David vs. Goliath
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Old 2012-02-17, 18:54   Link #246
Bonta Kun
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Damn this isn't exactly what I had in mind for a reboot, Bay still being at the helm is gonna get to me but then it is more transformers!

Couldn't be sitting on a more uncomfortable fence like I am atm concerning this.

Here's hoping I don't get my hopes up over this from now till the film is out.....what a thing to hope for>__<
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Old 2012-02-17, 20:23   Link #247
Mr. DJ
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Random gem of information...people talk about BAYSPLOSIONS! in these movies...yet the 80's movie has way way way more explosions than any of Bay's movies
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Old 2012-02-18, 01:21   Link #248
wingdarkness
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^But the 80's movie (aswell as the TV show) has what is called a heart and a soul...

Something Bay couldn't find if it crawled up his gastank...


For the people who had been patiently if not apathetically waiting for Bay's vision of Transformers to run it's course, there is no longer any hope...that's what's hitting some people I've talked to...
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Old 2012-02-18, 02:57   Link #249
Mr. DJ
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I think many would disagree about the 80's movie having heart and soul, though I personally never understood the hate for the movie >.> not being a diehard fan or anything
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Old 2012-02-18, 13:23   Link #250
Bonta Kun
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Originally Posted by Mr. DJ View Post
I think many would disagree about the 80's movie having heart and soul, though I personally never understood the hate for the movie >.> not being a diehard fan or anything
Well don't think you could call them "diehard" fans then, me being one of them I will defend the 80s film cause it does heart and soul.
I mean if your gonna tell me this doesn't have heart and soul then you a robot to me



The most memorable scene from any movie I've ever seen.

I don't need a modern day transformers film to really be like the 80s film but a little hark back to then wouldn't do any harm, something for us old time fans to write home about but we only got one little bit in the first film when Prime says "At the end of the day one will stand and one will fall".
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