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View Poll Results: Nisemonogatari - Episode 07 Rating
Perfect 10 31 33.33%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 29 31.18%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 17 18.28%
7 out of 10 : Good 8 8.60%
6 out of 10 : Average 7 7.53%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 1 1.08%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 0 0%
Voters: 93. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2012-02-20, 03:39   Link #61
Soliloquy
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Kaiki is hell of a troll and I like it. I find a lot of enjoyment from Kaiki talking. For the first time, everything he says make sense. I expected more intensity or perhaps cheap assault from Kaiki in the last duel considering that Kaiki came across as fraudulent and untrustworthy but surprisingly it ended without any action.
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Old 2012-02-20, 03:52   Link #62
Clarste
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teja208 View Post
Another flaw is Koyomi + Hitagi vs Kaiki. While the conversation itself is interesting, it gives off the anticlimactic feeling although not because of lack of fighting per se. I’m not sure how to convey this, but there were no signs of any emotional conflict, no clashes between ideals, not a single character displayed some form of self doubt or moved by what another character said. This can be tone down if characters displayed more dispositions during their conversation.
That was the point, wasn't it? As stated by Senjougahara last episode, that style of resolution is strong against hypocrites but weak against evil. They weren't going to get Kaiki to change his mind, and he certainly wasn't going to change theirs. Clashes between ideals was impossible from the start. The important point was that Senjougahara faced her past, and wasn't moved by it nor changed by it. This reinforces her attachment to the present and gets Araragi and Senjougahara slightly closer. Which has really been the climax of every single arc so far (except Nadeko Snake, which was unusual in a number of ways).
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Old 2012-02-20, 06:36   Link #63
jeroz
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keep in mind that Kaiki keeps on attacking Senjougahara's current self throughout the whole conversation, while praising Araragi at the same time.
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Old 2012-02-20, 11:00   Link #64
Gohan78
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Am I the only one who has a problem with Koyomi's speech to Karen? He said that she is wrong because she fights for others, not for herself. But Koyomi is the one who risked his life multiple times to save some random girls he barely knew! I see a huge hypocrite here...

I was also disappointed by the confrontation with Kaiki. I wasn't expecting a physical fight but at least a bit more of resistance from the con man.
The dialogue was also full of inconsistencies. If the Fire-wreathe Bee was a fake, how could Koyomi transfer half of the curse on himself? And how is Kaiki able to tell, if he can't see the supernatural?

I gave this episode a 7/10 because the Karen/Koyomi fight was awesome but as the conclusion of a long story arc it was disappointing.
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Old 2012-02-20, 11:07   Link #65
omimon
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Originally Posted by Gohan78 View Post
Am I the only one who has a problem with Koyomi's speech to Karen? He said that she is wrong because she fights for others, not for herself. But Koyomi is the one who risked his life multiple times to save some random girls he barely knew! I see a huge hypocrite here...

I was also disappointed by the confrontation with Kaiki. I wasn't expecting a physical fight but at least a bit more of resistance from the con man.
The dialogue was also full of inconsistencies. If the Fire-wreathe Bee was a fake, how could Koyomi transfer half of the curse on himself? And how is Kaiki able to tell, if he can't see the supernatural?

I gave this episode a 7/10 because the Karen/Koyomi fight was awesome but as the conclusion of a long story arc it was disappointing.
I think a lot of people are confused about the relationship between Kaiki and the supernatural. He doesn't believe in them but he knows about the existence of them. It wasn't mentioned in the episode but the reason he came was because he heard Shinobu was in town and her former self would increase the power of the curse.<---Nadeko Snake
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Old 2012-02-20, 11:09   Link #66
teja208
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Originally Posted by Clarste View Post
That was the point, wasn't it? As stated by Senjougahara last episode, that style of resolution is strong against hypocrites but weak against evil. They weren't going to get Kaiki to change his mind, and he certainly wasn't going to change theirs. Clashes between ideals was impossible from the start. The important point was that Senjougahara faced her past, and wasn't moved by it nor changed by it. This reinforces her attachment to the present and gets Araragi and Senjougahara slightly closer. Which has really been the climax of every single arc so far (except Nadeko Snake, which was unusual in a number of ways).
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeroz View Post
keep in mind that Kaiki keeps on attacking Senjougahara's current self throughout the whole conversation, while praising Araragi at the same time.
That's the whole point which makes me feel the story is anticlimactic. The current Hitagi is way too strong to the point that anything Kaiki said can't moved her. She has no hesitation of whether to let go of her horrible past because she is now fully enjoy and cherish her present with her boyfriend more than anything. My idea is that she should display more conflict when being remind of what she experienced in the past or fearing that it will happen again in the future, e.g. getting separate from her boyfriend or something. That’s where Koyomi comes in to reassure her that he will always remain by her side no matter what happen. That could make it more dramatic end to this arc.
You know, if Kaiki isn’t such an a*shole conning people for money, he might be scoring his own harem from all the girls he saved instead of Koyomi. Now this leads me to an important question. Why shouldn’t Oshino gain his own harem? After all, he has been traveling around saving a lot of people from oddities. I’d say he would’ve made a more interesting harem lead than Koyomi.
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Old 2012-02-20, 11:42   Link #67
Shikijin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeroz View Post
keep in mind that Kaiki keeps on attacking Senjougahara's current self throughout the whole conversation
In the beginning of Bakemonogatari Hanekawa remarked Senjougahara had become quite pretty. That was Senjougahara's crab period. That was the established setting. It follows that as Senjougahara moved away from that somehow she became less pretty.
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Originally Posted by Gohan78 View Post
Am I the only one who has a problem with Koyomi's speech to Karen? He said that she is wrong because she fights for others, not for herself. But Koyomi is the one who risked his life multiple times to save some random girls he barely knew! I see a huge hypocrite here...
The problem is not saving others, is attacking someone. Araragi never attacked anyone.
Quote:
I was also disappointed by the confrontation with Kaiki. I wasn't expecting a physical fight but at least a bit more of resistance from the con man.
Kaiki resisted. Ultimately he wasn't reformed.
Quote:
The dialogue was also full of inconsistencies. If the Fire-wreathe Bee was a fake, how could Koyomi transfer half of the curse on himself?
While the Fire Bee was a fake, the instant hypnotism really caused a temporary illness.
Quote:
And how is Kaiki able to tell, if he can't see the supernatural?
He just says he doesn't believe in it, like people who don't believe in ghosts may still be scared by them.
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Old 2012-02-20, 12:28   Link #68
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Originally Posted by DragoZERO View Post
I think he was lying about the bee being fake.
If the bee had been real, Karen would have died instead of recovering after only two days.
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Old 2012-02-20, 12:47   Link #69
DragoZERO
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Originally Posted by Kanon View Post
If the bee had been real, Karen would have died instead of recovering after only two days.
Her big brother took half of the poison. I can't see how you can hypnotize someone into having a fever that bad. I think he was lying about that. I'd believe Oshino over him, after all.
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Old 2012-02-20, 15:35   Link #70
jorez
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I have been reading in some forum that...
Spoiler for Question about Araragi:
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Old 2012-02-20, 15:41   Link #71
DragoZERO
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I have been reading in some forum that...
Spoiler for spoiler:
Is that why they were naked? If they weren't in middle school I'd have to applaud that.
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Old 2012-02-20, 15:48   Link #72
Clarste
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Originally Posted by jorez View Post
...
You should probably ask that in the Light Novel thread. Also, even asking for confirmation is itself a spoiler.
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Old 2012-02-20, 17:12   Link #73
ThereminVox
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Originally Posted by teja208 View Post
Overall, I still like Nise as a whole as much as Bake, but I can’t argue that most of Bake climax scenes left me more sentimental than what I’ve just experienced in this episode. That said, I’m still looking forward to next week to learn more about Tsukihi in her own arc and other aspects this series has yet to offer.
This is probably in part because Karen is left out of the climax by necessity. Mayoi says in the first episode that if his sisters ever find themselves in the world of the supernatural, his job will be to lead them out of it. Presumably, he wants to get Karen out none the wiser about what happened. Because of this, Karen's recovery happens off-screen, and she doesn't really know everything that happened, which is a switch from Bake's resolutions, where the girls get to have a moment to dialogue with Araragi about it. Karen's role in the resolution comes before the Kaiki "showdown", such as it is, rather than after.
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Old 2012-02-20, 17:48   Link #74
Malkuth
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teja208 View Post
That's the whole point which makes me feel the story is anticlimactic. The current Hitagi is way too strong to the point that anything Kaiki said can't moved her.
Eh?!?!? I think it's exactly the opposite, Hitagi is so moved only by the presence of Kaiki in the city that she feels the need to prove to herself that she is trying to change (and nowhere near succeeding at this point). That's one of the reasons she is idolizing Tsubasa since four novels ago, and she and most of the audience knew what she went through in Kizu- it would put things into a whole new perspective.

Well at least she slowly realizes how naive and weak she was, which alone makes her character not only likeable, but also interesting to watch her baby steps into adulthood

Quote:
Originally Posted by teja208 View Post
She has no hesitation of whether to let go of her horrible past because she is now fully enjoy and cherish her present with her boyfriend more than anything. My idea is that she should display more conflict when being remind of what she experienced in the past or fearing that it will happen again in the future, e.g. getting separate from her boyfriend or something. That’s where Koyomi comes in to reassure her that he will always remain by her side no matter what happen. That could make it more dramatic end to this arc.
Hitagi up until now was just running away from her past and having Koyomi as her boyfriend does not exactly help her in this respect. I am pretty sure this is the first time she tried to confront her own weaknesses, even though she was blaming them on Kaiki... several times in this arc she admitted that its not Kaiki that she is facing but herself in him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by teja208 View Post
You know, if Kaiki isn’t such an a*shole conning people for money, he might be scoring his own harem from all the girls he saved instead of Koyomi. Now this leads me to an important question. Why shouldn’t Oshino gain his own harem? After all, he has been traveling around saving a lot of people from oddities. I’d say he would’ve made a more interesting harem lead than Koyomi.
Money is more likely to get him a harem

As for Koyomi being an uninteresting harem lead... well you know its one of the main functions of harem leads, being uninteresting, since it is the only way to focus a show on the harem, not its leader... that said, Koyomi is one of the most interesting character, his main flaw (enjoyment-wise) for me is his suicidal Jesus-syndrome, which quite frankly is pointless and only serves as an excuse to animate/describe gore in the series.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DragoZERO View Post
Is that why they were naked? If they weren't in middle school I'd have to applaud that.
Why? I think the majority of middle school girls these (as well as my) days have had sex with high school or uni students, as well as army conscripts (near military bases) or young professionals... it's natural, but in some undeveloped countries illegal.
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Old 2012-02-20, 18:04   Link #75
DragoZERO
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Oh yeah, I got a big LOL out of rubbing Shinobu's loli breasts and not her adult ones.

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Originally Posted by Malkuth View Post
Why? I think the majority of middle school girls these (as well as my) days have had sex with high school or uni students, as well as army conscripts (near military bases) or young professionals... it's natural, but in some undeveloped countries illegal.
I don't want to go off topic so I just want to put a firm NO out there. The norm and average is still late high school. Google it.
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Old 2012-02-20, 18:08   Link #76
Malkuth
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Originally Posted by DragoZERO View Post
Oh yeah, I got a big LOL out of rubbing Shinobu's loli breasts and not her adult ones.
Well, Koyomi along with the audience are really unlucky in that respect

Quote:
Originally Posted by DragoZERO View Post
I don't want to go off topic so I just want to put a firm NO out there. The norm and average is still late high school. Google it.
Indeed, OT, and I am not particularly interested in the whole subject, unless someone is butthurt about it
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Old 2012-02-20, 20:10   Link #77
taichi-kun
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Very good episode but I was expecting action against kaiki

When hitagi said "he was still the first"(about kaiki) ... It doesn't mean sex right?
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Old 2012-02-21, 00:49   Link #78
Somnus
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Very good episode but I was expecting action against kaiki

When hitagi said "he was still the first"(about kaiki) ... It doesn't mean sex right?
It was that very thought that caused Hitagi to ask Koyomi, "What? Did you just question your girlfriend's purity."

In other words, no. She was well into her traumatized state by then, which means she was afraid of the very thought of sex. She was saying that Kaiki was the first to show "kindness" and put forth an "effort" to helping her. It was all fake from the get go, but as she said if he was indeed serious and had cured her she may very well have fallen in love with him instead.
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Old 2012-02-21, 02:13   Link #79
Reckoner
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Average conclusion, average arc, average season.

Nisemonogatari is just much too slow compared to Bake. The format of short mini arcs in Bake actually worked much more to its benefit than the elongated one we just saw in Nise.

Bantering and heavy dialogue comes with the territory in this show, and hey I enjoy it too, but there really is a point where you have to say "get on with the show." The plot and character development has to come out faster than this.

Part of the problem is that towards the end of Bake the cast was already getting a bit inflated and Nise decides they want to keep even more characters in picture now (Shinobu and Araragi's sisters). It's spreading its character development much too thin around the board now with too many people to give attention to. HOPEFULLY they don't even add more characters into the mix here.

Besides visuals, I feel that Nisemonogatari is worst in all aspects compared to Bake. Nothing much they can do to change my opinion by the end of this season, it's just disappointing. At least I hear that "supposedly" nise is considered the worst. Hopefully it does not continue to devolve in future seasons.
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Old 2012-02-21, 02:16   Link #80
risingstar3110
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Originally Posted by Azuma Denton View Post
Wonder, which fights is more brutal?
Araragi vs Rainy Devil or
Araragi vs Karen??
I don't know if i should be envious, if that's the only thing which you was wondering after this episode.

In my case,i was wondering what was hotter that nigh, Araragi x Hitagi (+Shinobu) or the yuri shimai.... And God damn it,my imagination is running wild
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