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Old 2011-03-30, 13:04   Link #101
thevil1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anchi View Post
Ok, so, actually, everything was just a dream when Nagisa and Ushio died. LOL... Also, at the end, I wish they made a third season!
That's what I like to think. I liked the alternate endings for a reason. So much more happier.
Although she should have gone to the hospital. Wanting to have the baby at home is no excuse when she and everyone knew that she was physically unable to survive without proper medical attention.
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Old 2011-04-02, 21:11   Link #102
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Originally Posted by Anchi View Post
Ok, so, actually, everything was just a dream when Nagisa and Ushio died. LOL... Also, at the end, I wish they made a third season!
Not really.

Nagisa and Ushio die for real, then time resets itself, then they don't die. It works so much better in the game, it isn't really a mechanic that transfers that well into a more linear media like a tv show. I personally liked it as a fan of the game since KyoAni is staying true to the source.
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Old 2011-04-13, 18:12   Link #103
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Staying true for the source doesn't always make for a great storyline (see School Days). It didn't translate well in the TV series. Personally, I was looking forward to seeing Tomoya cope and adapt after Ushio's death. If he could pick himself up after that, my respect for him would skyrocket. Guess it just wasn't meant to be.
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Old 2011-09-17, 00:46   Link #104
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Hmmm. My theory was that the IW and the girl and robot, rather than being Tomoya and Ushio, were rather symbolic of them, representations. They were characters that existed in another world/dimension, but they represented/symbolized Ushio and Tomoya. The memories he has of it are rather a connection. The worlds are connected (not physically, but the characters are connected, I suppose). I suppose you could also argue for the IW being a real alternate dimensions, "alternate" Ushio and Tomoya. As for the ending where everyone survives, I see it more as a "what could have been" rather than something that actually happened (time resetting itself,etc). Tomoya's last wish, as Ushio dies--that things could have turned out like that.
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Old 2011-09-27, 21:53   Link #105
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Now... I may get burned at the stake for suggesting this but... the "true" ending (Nagisa living) felt like it cheapened the "first" ending (Nagisa dying) to me. Like... it was them going "Surprise! None of that really happened! It was all a dream! They all lived happily ever after with no worries about anything!" I really liked the "first" ending. It was heart wrenching sure, but up until Ushio died, I thought the story was incredibly touching.

Ushio's death seemed... extreme, like it didn't serve a storytelling purpose except to make the story unbelievably sad. Now, I played through the game first before watching the anime. I knew there was a "true" ending, but I honestly couldn't predict with any sort of certainty whether the "true" ending would be Nagisa surviving childbirth (and consequently the next too) or just Ushio surviving her sickness and not dying at 5 years old due to the mysterious sickness in her father's arms. If it was the latter, I was expecting the story to play out basically similarly to how the post-Nagisa's death story played out except that the lights would have done for Ushio what they ended up doing for Nagisa. I knew the lines from the "Call Out" scene, and I just could not predict what would happen. Some of the lines like, "This long journey... Where we shared in the emotions of this town... Is over now." It made it sound like Nagisa was dying and "moving on"



After having finished (both the game and the anime), as much as I like happy endings, it just feels like Clannad's happy ending was... trollish? It was such a strange feeling finishing the game and the anime and seeing Nagisa open her eyes. I haven't felt anything like it before.
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Old 2011-10-02, 19:42   Link #106
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Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama View Post
If you subscribe to this graph then it causes problems for the whole story because it makes it seem like Tomoya still crossed timelines from timeline 2 to timeline 1 at the end of After Story episode 16, which wouldn’t make sense. If he’s already at the point where he can collect the light orbs at the beginning of the series (and indeed we see him bonding with all of the girls and helping them) then why does he go through all of those bad end events shown in Timeline 1 starting at episode 17? Theoretically he already helped all of the girls to get the light orbs so he should just jump straight to the good ending. In this manner it looks like the graph doesn’t really work…..or am I missing something?
can someone explain to me the reason, based on the graph, why tomoya was able to go back to the beginning of the anime in timeline 2 after ushio and him both died in the snow?
and how nagisa survived delivering ushio..
I have some ideas already but it's still not clear, i just want to clarify things.
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Old 2011-10-03, 19:13   Link #107
Suomi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drake93 View Post
can someone explain to me the reason, based on the graph, why tomoya was able to go back to the beginning of the anime in timeline 2 after ushio and him both died in the snow?
and how nagisa survived delivering ushio..
I have some ideas already but it's still not clear, i just want to clarify things.
It;s really just personal interpretation I think. Can be viewed as a "starting over" "Second chance" or something, depending
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Old 2011-10-03, 19:32   Link #108
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Originally Posted by Illusore View Post
It;s really just personal interpretation I think. Can be viewed as a "starting over" "Second chance" or something, depending
I know it can be viewed as something like "second chance" and "starting over" but my question is what was the explanation why he was able to go back, is it because he wished for it using those orbs? or something else..i don't know
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Old 2011-10-03, 23:42   Link #109
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Old 2011-10-03, 23:50   Link #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drake93 View Post
I know it can be viewed as something like "second chance" and "starting over" but my question is what was the explanation why he was able to go back, is it because he wished for it using those orbs? or something else..i don't know
Pretty much yes, it is very evident in the game that you collect this orbs in order to fulfill a happy end. The problem withe anime is it does not show the repetitive struggle he goes through and making the orbs evident. For game viewers we all knew what was going on, but to first time viewers it came out as a cop out which it never was. That chart will also help too that was posted.
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Old 2011-10-04, 22:11   Link #111
drake93
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Originally Posted by Leo_Otaku View Post
Pretty much yes, it is very evident in the game that you collect this orbs in order to fulfill a happy end. The problem withe anime is it does not show the repetitive struggle he goes through and making the orbs evident. For game viewers we all knew what was going on, but to first time viewers it came out as a cop out which it never was. That chart will also help too that was posted.
but he doesn't have any orbs in the very 1st timeline, according to the graph, in the first timeline nagisa and tomoya didn't helped the other characters(tomoyo, fuko, kotomi etc.) therefore tomoya didn't obtain any orbs, then how was he able to go back in time?
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Old 2011-10-10, 23:43   Link #112
Random32
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The first timeline. This happens before both the anime and the game (since start out with IW scene).

-Tomoya meets Nagisa
-Nagisa route
-Nagisa gives birth to Ushio and dies
-Ushio dies, becomes Illusionary World Girl
-Ushio resets time

then all the timelines happen after that. The key to the time reset is Ushio, not orbs.
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Old 2011-10-10, 23:59   Link #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Random32 View Post
The key to the time reset is Ushio, not orbs.
What's the use of the orbs then?
I always though that through these orbs with Tomoya's kinded heart, his wish to returned back everything came through....

The point (I think) why the mystical girl died with her world is sustained Tomoya's wished...
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Old 2011-10-23, 09:28   Link #114
drake93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Random32 View Post
The first timeline. This happens before both the anime and the game (since start out with IW scene).

-Tomoya meets Nagisa
-Nagisa route
-Nagisa gives birth to Ushio and dies
-Ushio dies, becomes Illusionary World Girl
-Ushio resets time

then all the timelines happen after that. The key to the time reset is Ushio, not orbs.
I think I am starting to connect all the dots already..
just need some more few questions, how did Ushio end up at the IW right after dying in the real world at the end of the 1st timeline (this is still based on the graph)?
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Old 2011-12-06, 23:00   Link #115
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So, Tomoya and Nagisa are sent back in time...

Don't get me wrong, the ending was great.

From what I'm getting here on this discussion is that Tomoya was sent back in time (along with Nagisa). However, this time, Nagisa survives the childbirth of Ushio.

Some things confuse me though...

1. Were both Tomoya and Nagisa aware that they were sent back in time? I thought this was the case since Nagisa told Tomoya not to ever regret the time they spent, and that he made her (past tense) "so happy."

2. Was Tomoya sent back knowing to collect the light orbs? I might be wrong, but Ushio sent Tomoya back in time so that he may do that right?

Also, I'm confused about the whole ending. I don't mean to try to sound pessimistic toward the series, because I absolutely think it is the best anime I've watched so far, but would it be a plot hole if Tomoya had known that he went back in time knowing that Nagisa and Ushio would die if he hadn't collected the orbs?

If that was the case, then I think Tomoya would deal with the future situations ALOT differently. One thing that comes to mind is dealing with his father. If Tomoya had realized sooner that his father had a rough life sooner, then maybe his father wouldn't have turned to selling the drugs, thus Tomoya getting the job he did not get before.

And again I might be wrong, but one thing that I think is that the "Another Chapter" endings are related to the actual story arc. Because if there are actually parallel universes, then Tomoya could still obtain orbs for Tomoyo's and Kyou's happiness (by going out with them). Because as Kotomi said, the worlds influence each other indirectly.

^(Okay, that sounds really farfetched...haha)

But yeah I'm still very confused!
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Old 2011-12-07, 02:48   Link #116
Ithekro
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Watch Episode 24 (Summary "Under the Green Tree"). The recap episode at the end of the series. It does get into what Tomoya remembers as he tells the story to Ushio (and Fuuko). Also possibly what he thinks of what he remembers (also there is a nice new scene at the end).


I will note that he doesn't remember the Fuuko arc at all...aside from the wedding happened and stuff that didn't involve Fuuko. But he does remember everything else.

One way I think is that it is not time travel, but dimension hopping. Tomoya jumps dimensions, but instead of at the begining (Episode 1), in the anime it is to Episode 16 of After Story) It is the colorless scene under the trees, where Nagisa walks away...is in both 16 and 22. It is Tomoya's choice that is different. I see it as a metaphysical thing (the dream being their orbs of happiness..or maybe their souls). In 16, Tomoya let Nagisa go, and she died. In 22, he hold on to her, and she lives. The story goes right back to the very scene in 16, but this time Nagisa lives.
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Old 2012-02-24, 09:37   Link #117
Sucrilhus
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One thing isn't really clear to me...

What's Fuuko's real role in the story?

How important is she?

I'd appreciate if someone could help me with this...
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Old 2012-02-25, 21:07   Link #118
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^ In the first part of the show(Clannad) her role is to play the mediator - or rather as a means for them to know each other better - between Nagisa and Tomoya. That's what I think.
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Old 2012-03-02, 14:32   Link #119
Asian808Guy
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Re:

My theory on the topic:

1. IW (Illusionary Worlds) are actually worlds that exist at a persons' subconsious. Proof can be seen of this when Ushio (Capricorn - ???) was about to die. So you could assume that there is an IW from each individual character in the series. Even the planet itself has alternate worlds.

2. When Ushio was about to die in the episode, White Shadow, Tomoyo (Scorpio - Taurus) tries to caught her before she passes on in the snow. I suspect that he pass away with her. His life ends due to hypothermia, and this is why you don't see any continuing content for him after Ushio's passing. He doesn't move on, grief for Ushio's passing, or goes to the next person he would consider his significant other (Kyoo: Virgo -- ???). Thus, as a result, he's able to follow her, or invade Ushio's IW because he doesn't want to let go. His soul leaves his body and enter her mind. Ushio, the only soul-bound link or connection he has to his "true-love," Nagisa (Capricorn-???).

3. Through both series, some Q-Physics come into play with the time. It's the assumption that everything in the past, present, and future is already happening. Where we normally see time as being linear (from a to b), or circular ( circular revolutions from a to b), Tomoyo has already been in the IW, spent time with Nagisa when they were both attending highschool, strived to be a better father for Ushio, and continue living in the "alternate outcome" all at the same time. The character doesn't see it or experience it all at once, but it already happened like a pre-determined destiny. This could explain why Tomoyo and Nagisa have Deja-vus and memories about the "girl living in a world that's already ended." The girl (Ushio) living in a world that's already ended is a reference to their daughter's passing, and her IW goes with it.

4. The time spent in Ushio's IW before she scatters into multiple light-orbs, Ushio and the "robot doll," is the length of time in which Ushio collapsed in the real world, and she her brain stopped working, thus ending her IW. The light-orbs are suppose to represent her wishes, her dreams, her happiness and her feelings leaving her body. Basically the essence of her soul.

5. Ushio's IW is a reflection of her. The white little sheep that relate to her sign. There's the old shack in the middle of a field surrounded by hills and mountains. Ideal for somebody who wants a quiet, peaceful, serene reality. The coming winter is death creeping up on her.
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Old 2013-06-11, 13:31   Link #120
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Lol the conclusion I had when I finished watching the last episode was that the green light that Tomoya gained at the ending was that he wished for another chance with Nagisa as the Narrator(?) said. And it was simple and shallow thinking xD but I guess I was still confused and after reading Kinny and VRMN's post I understood it was much more than that, especially VRMN's post made me realize how KyoAni was manipulating us which made me feel like "wow I'm so stupid comparing to this guy on how he knows this".
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