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View Poll Results: Shakugan no Shana III - Episode 20 Rating
Perfect 10 16 30.77%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 22 42.31%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 7 13.46%
7 out of 10 : Good 4 7.69%
6 out of 10 : Average 1 1.92%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 1 1.92%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 1 1.92%
Voters: 52. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2012-02-24, 11:07   Link #1
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Shakugan no Shana III - Episode 20 Discussion / Poll

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Old 2012-02-24, 12:01   Link #2
alvinkhorfire
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Wow, another cliffhanger in the end of the episode! What happens to the core of Xanadu, after Shana manages to fire Chorde loaded with Taimei Shihen towards it?

Is it just me, or SotF Yuji is really becoming so weak that he has to be constantly protected by Sydonay? Maybe, performing the ritual has drained the energy of the Snake of the Festival, until SotF Yuji cannot fight at his full strength? He is definitely a pale shadow of his former badass self, when he single-handedly defeated Shana, Wilhelmina and Margery in Episode 4.

What is the name of the blue spell used by Yuji to protect himself?
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Old 2012-02-24, 12:26   Link #3
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There is also the fact that back in episode 4 Shana/Wilhelmina/Margery where not fighting 100% seriously or at their full capacity. While in a way Yuji could cause much more damage to Shana if he desired by using Blutsauger's damaging abilities, there is no point in him trying to kill her since he is just stalling for time.

With both factors involved, Yuji fighting defensively, and the flame hazes not holding back anymore it seems like he is having a hard time trying to keep up.

Im also a bit confused about Yuji's new spell here though.
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Old 2012-02-24, 12:55   Link #4
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I thought this usually aired at around 2:30.
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Old 2012-02-24, 14:38   Link #5
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Yuuji's original spell looks like a scaled shield or barrier. He tried to used it to protect the worlds egg but still got destroyed. And what's the use of the thing that Shana fire into the egg?
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Old 2012-02-24, 18:06   Link #6
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I kind of wish they focused on some of the battles, instead of jumping all over the place. We didn't get to see any of the 4 Gods of the Earth fighting their respective opponents.
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Old 2012-02-24, 18:10   Link #7
alvinkhorfire
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Quote:
Originally Posted by syke123 View Post
I thought this usually aired at around 2:30.
It airs at 1.30 am, Saturday morning (Japanese time; GMT +9 hours).

On a unrelated note, here is an opinion quoted from another forum about the cracking Wilhelmina mask:
Quote:
For Wilhelmina, over the decades her focus has shifted. Up until this point, the major purpose of her existence has been to ensure Shana's wellbeing and to aid the Engaged Link whom she failed to protect before. However in both encounters, Pheles has rejected her aid, denying her of half of her reason to strife on effectively. As the mask is symbolic of her power, it cracked to reflect her inner turmoils.
It is quite correct, isn't it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Game8910 View Post
There is also the fact that back in episode 4 Shana/Wilhelmina/Margery where not fighting 100% seriously or at their full capacity. While in a way Yuji could cause much more damage to Shana if he desired by using Blutsauger's damaging abilities, there is no point in him trying to kill her since he is just stalling for time.

With both factors involved, Yuji fighting defensively, and the flame hazes not holding back anymore it seems like he is having a hard time trying to keep up.
I agree with you that Yuji is fighting defensively to stall time. And, he is not using Blutsauger's damaging abilities to prevent excessively injuring Shana. Still, it does not explain that SotF Yuji appears to be less confident during this battle, and requires constant protection from Sydonay.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Game8910 View Post
Im also a bit confused about Yuji's new spell here though.
I think that Yuji is quite surprised to realize the existence of scaled blue shield spell, as if he is not aware of it prior to this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elestia View Post
We didn't get to see any of the 4 Gods of the Earth fighting their respective opponents.
We do not get to see the battles we have anticipated before.
Ribesal & Pyrsoin vs. EastEdge.
Lerajie & Orobas vs. WestShore.
Haborym vs. SouthValley.

The 3 Gods of the Earth are merely killing the weak Crimson Denizens, not advancing forward to battle the Crimson Lords. As Deathscyther stated, the 3 gods are decoys, who are supposed to keep the tomogara busy while Shana and co try to stop Yuji's plan. Thus, it is not as exciting to see them killing the Tomogaras, than to see the battle between Sotf Yuji, Sydonay and Shana, Wilhelmina, Margery.
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Old 2012-02-24, 19:14   Link #8
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Good episode, albeit a little slow. I guess it's all in preparation for what will happen on the next episodes.
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Old 2012-02-24, 19:49   Link #9
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ok? this is getting boring!!!!!
why does yuji always lose?
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Old 2012-02-24, 20:00   Link #10
Elestia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alvinkhorfire View Post
The 3 Gods of the Earth are merely killing the weak Crimson Denizens, not advancing forward to battle the Crimson Lords. As Deathscyther stated, the 3 gods are decoys, who are supposed to keep the tomogara busy while Shana and co try to stop Yuji's plan. Thus, it is not as exciting to see them killing the Tomogaras, than to see the battle between Sotf Yuji, Sydonay and Shana, Wilhelmina, Margery.
What's the point of keeping the weak tomogara busy? I think it would be more effective if the decoy actually attracted the attention of the Guze Lords, who we do not even get to see or what they are doing during all this.
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Old 2012-02-24, 22:06   Link #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elestia View Post
What's the point of keeping the weak tomogara busy? I think it would be more effective if the decoy actually attracted the attention of the Guze Lords, who we do not even get to see or what they are doing during all this.
My guess is it's because those cannon fodder are the first line of defence.

So if they fall then the Crimson Lords would need to step in to fill in that gap and the 3 gods are no pushovers.

So at the moment they are actually just manning their posts waiting. If they leave then there's a danger of a hole opening up.
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Old 2012-02-24, 22:40   Link #12
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So that musician guy was actually important. Yuji seems to be getting weaker. His unrestricted spell was interesting though. Finally Shana breaks through.
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Old 2012-02-24, 23:34   Link #13
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Points

Ok guys, I think the people on this post may be confused about many points in the series. I wanted to highlight some of them and list them below:


1) Yugi (original) is dead because he merged with SoF.

Results: 1) Yugi is not going to die if the Reiji Maigo is removed from Yugi by Johan.
2) Yugi is not human anymore, he is Yugi/SoF, a flamehaze like existance.


2) Johan is most likely not going to die. The reason is that a Mystes require very very very little power of existence to survive. Therefore he can easily get that kind of PoE from Pheles. Also we know that Johan and Pheles is planning something right now and we also know that Yugi is going create Xanadu which have a free flow of PoE.

Results: 1) Johan and Pheles can just move to Xanadu.


Any thoughts?
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Old 2012-02-24, 23:41   Link #14
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I am confused about the name of the protagonist.
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Old 2012-02-25, 01:09   Link #15
Elestia
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Yugi: Did someone call my name?


I kid. I kid.

I guess the minor cliffhanger about the face off got my hopes a little high. Instead, we see them doing the same thing as last episode: pwning nameless cannon fodder.
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Old 2012-02-25, 06:56   Link #16
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Good episode! 9/10.

The episode felt kind of chaotic at times, but that's logical since there are so many battles going on at the same time. They once again managed to give most characters the screen time they deserved.

I'm glad that Margery arrived. Not only did she manage to snap Wilhelmina out of her despression, but she made the battle against Yuji and Sydonay much more interesting with her unpredictable unrestricted spells. Wilhelmina's and Margery's relationship has really grown to the level of 'buddies' as well. It's nice to see that Margery understands Wilhelmina better than anyone else at the moment.

Seeing how Bel Peol looked at that clock (the time was 23:07 or 23:08) and the fact that the flame haze are expecting the tide of battle to change at midnight, I'm guessing that the tomogara are really waiting for midnight. So the Reiji Maigo really plays a vital role in Yuji's plan. If that's the case, he'll have to continue holding back the flame haze for nearly an hour. It won't be easy, since Yuji and Sydonay are being outmatched by Shana, Wilhelmina and Margery. And now that the Chorde were already fired at the 'egg of the world' everything could happen.

I wonder what kind of data the flame haze put in their piece of the Taimei Shihen. I don't think Shana and co have found a way to completely destroy the spell, since they only had a few days to analyse the Taimei Shihen, using the information they got from Spiral Organ. Spiral Organ wants Xanadu to be created as well (since he's planning to use the power of existence that comes with the creation and the tomogara leaving for the other world for his own goal), so I don't think he would give the flame haze the chance to completely destroy the spell.

I still think that it's an alternation of the Taimei Shihen. Even the flame haze have to realize that the tomogara leaving this world would be a good thing. So I'm guessing that they just forcefully put in some data, which would somehow stop the tomogara from disrupting the balance in the new world.

Since Shana's goals are to be with Yuji and to protect the balance, I think this is indeed a good possibility. She wouldn't have to kill Yuji, she wouldn't even completely stop his plan since the new world would still be created, the balance would be protected, and she would be able to be with Yuji in the end. If this is indeed her plan, then I guess that Shana did believe Yuji/Snh when he said that the creation of Xanadu itself wouldn't damage the balance. Since Yuji is planning to go to Xanadu himself, I'm guessing that Shana is planning to go with him in the end.

As for Rofocale, I was wondering where he went after returning from the rift. He's in the middle of nowhere, but he's still able to watch the battle in Misaki City, because he's able to cast a spell which allows him to look at things from a distance. It seems that he is a follower of neither Alastor nor Sairei no Hebi. There is a third god: The God of Guidance Shaher, the Thunderous Chant of Awakening.

It seems that the Flame Haze, who are not in Misaki City at the moment, are planning to use an oracle from this god to spread Shana's plan to the world, hoping that it would have some kind of effect on the tomogara. The plan seems farfetched, but I guess they're at least trying to do something.

The summoning of this Oracle seems kind of tricky though. If I'm understanding Rofocale's words right I guess the oracle will only be summoned when the God sees something that needs guidance. Something that won't won't become what it's supposed to become without his guidance.
Does this mean that it will have to be something that Shaher didn't think was possible? Something he can't predict the future/consequences of? Something so special that he wants the whole world to know? That's why an oracle is summoned?

Since the oracle wasn't summoned when Yuji/SnH proclaimed their plans to the world, I guess that the creation of Xanadu isn't enough to summon the oracle. Does this mean that Shaher doesn't see the creation of Xanadu as special? Did he already predict that something like this would happen someday? Apparently Shana's plan isn't enough to summon the oracle either.

Now the question is what Pheles and Johan did, since Rofocale starts to act really weird after seeing something strange in the minivan. Will Pheles and Johan be the ones to summon this oracle in the end?

Quote:
Originally Posted by alvinkhorfire View Post
Wow, another cliffhanger in the end of the episode! What happens to the core of Xanadu, after Shana manages to fire Chorde loaded with Taimei Shihen towards it?

Is it just me, or SotF Yuji is really becoming so weak that he has to be constantly protected by Sydonay? Maybe, performing the ritual has drained the energy of the Snake of the Festival, until SotF Yuji cannot fight at his full strength? He is definitely a pale shadow of his former badass self, when he single-handedly defeated Shana, Wilhelmina and Margery in Episode 4.
It's not that Yuji's grown much weaker. He's losing because of the circumstances:
  • Yuji and Sydonay are not fighting to defeat the opponents. They're fighting to protect the 'egg of the world'. You could say that they're stalling for time. While Shana, Wilhelmina and Margery are fighting to fire Chorde at this egg of the world. The flame hazes are much more free in their actions.

    While Sydonay and Yuji are both as strong or most likely even stronger than Shana, Wilhelmina and Margery when fighting 1 vs 1, they're being outmatched at the moment. 3 vs 1 is too much for them to handle at the moment. Not because they're too weak, but because their goal is to protect the egg of the world. If they give one of the 3 flame hazes a chance to fire the Chorde at the egg of the world, the flame haze 'win'. And since these aren't flame haze you can easily deal with, especially now that Margery has arrived with her unpredictable spells, they will get these chances as long as it stays 2 vs 3.
  • Yuji isn't using the special ability of his Blutsauger (the ability to inflict wounds on anything which would come in contact with the sword), because he doesn't want to hurt Shana too much. He would have defeated Shana quite easily if he had used this ability.
  • Yuji just lost his sense of precognition when Johan left him. So he's mostly using his own senses at the moment (sight, hearing, touch), while he's getting used to sensing the flow of power of existence for himself. He says that he never had to use this power himself before, since it used to come naturally to him and that he finds it quite diffcult to control this power by himself.

Now that Yuji learned his own unrestriced spell though, he might be able to turn the tables on them once he learns how to use it properly. It looks like some kind of protective spell. The spell was weaker the second time he used it though. Since he kind of summoned the spell on instinct the first time, I guess he'll have to get used to that feeling.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alvinkhorfire View Post
What is the name of the blue spell used by Yuji to protect himself?
I don't think we got a name from the spell yet. Seeing how surprised everyone was when he used the spell, I'm guessing that it's a completely new spell that was never seen before.
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Old 2012-02-25, 08:22   Link #17
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man I hope yuuji's plans arent screwed over. overall, an excellent episode.
now I wonder what the bard saw and if it will push them to make a move.
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Old 2012-02-25, 15:33   Link #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alvinkhorfire View Post

On a unrelated note, here is an opinion quoted from another forum about the cracking Wilhelmina mask:

Quote:
For Wilhelmina, over the decades her focus has shifted. Up until this point, the major purpose of her existence has been to ensure Shana's wellbeing and to aid the Engaged Link whom she failed to protect before. However in both encounters, Pheles has rejected her aid, denying her of half of her reason to strife on effectively. As the mask is symbolic of her power, it cracked to reflect her inner turmoils.
It is quite correct, isn't it?
Yeah, I see it similarly as well.

After being rejected by Pheles consecutively, and sealed off. This was a question as to whether she would enforce either of the two oaths she was bound upon. I would say that Pheles was aware of the situation, and prevented her from making such a decision. As she knew she still carried an oath to protect them, although she also carries an oath to protect Shana. This was her way of protecting her from a self destructive path emposed on herself.

Her mask therefore cracked, her emotions led astray, and her reason to push forward crumbled. Instead of making her own decision, she forced it on her. She was confused and was wondering why, yet she understood that Pheles didn't wan't her to act, and clearly cut all their ties. This then concluded the oath she made with her, and left her empty, she then realized that she still had another reason to fight, and it was standing right in front of her. Margery then pointed out that she was in danger, and renewed her heart.

Well it's how I see it.

Last edited by syke123; 2012-02-25 at 16:00.
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Old 2012-02-25, 16:25   Link #19
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A good 9/10

- Glad that Margery helped Wilhelmina outta depression whilst comparing it to something she dealt with before in Ep. 3 or 4 of this season.

- Shocked to find out that Yuji had some random badass spell up his sleeve that even he didn't know about.

- Everybody kicked ass in this episode too. But now I'm wondering, what happened to that battle between SouthValley and Haborym?
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Old 2012-02-25, 16:50   Link #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by syke123 View Post
Yeah, I see it similarly as well. After being rejected by Pheles consecutively, and sealed off. This was a question as to whether she would enforce either of the two oaths she was bound upon. I would say that Pheles was aware of the situation, and prevented her from making such a decision. As she knew she still carried an oath to protect them, although she also carries an oath to protect Shana. This was her way of protecting her from a self destructive path emposed on herself.

Her mask therefore cracked, her emotions led astray, and her reason to push forward crumbled. Instead of making her own decision, she forced it on her. She was confused and was wondering why, yet she understood that Pheles didn't wan't her to act, and clearly cut all their ties. This then concluded the oath she made with her, and left her empty, she then realized that she still had another reason to fight, and it was standing right in front of her. Margery then pointed out that she was in danger, and renewed her heart.

Well it's how I see it.
I agree with the reason why Wilhelmina's mask crumbled. She's always trying to help her friends, but always fails to do so in the end. She thinks that everyone makes her stop helping them and even leave her because of this. She promised herself that she'd fight for Shana, but now that Pheles once again refused her help and disappeared without even telling her anything, she hesitates as she becomes depressed because her of uselessness.

She used to have her mission to get her through these days, but now that she's not longer bound to her duty (she's fighting for her own reasons now, since the mission to protect the balance by fighting the tomogara is practically gone because the creation of Xanadu would make the mission unneeded) she doesn't know what she should do. If she can't even help the people important to her, if they don't want her help, then what should she do with her newly acquired freedom?

Good thing for her that Margery managed to snap her out of it. Even though Pheles shut her out, there's just no time to be depressed about it. She's still able to help Shana now by acting. Shana understood Wilhelmina's feelings right away after Margery told her what happened as well and just told her "Let's go, Wilhelmina" which basically means that Shana wants her help. These were the words she needed to hear from the person she wants to help no matter what. In turn, I think this shows the strong bond Shana and Wilhelmina share as well.

I actually don't think that Pheles was aware of Wilhelmina's oath to fight for Shana. There is no way she should be able to know. I think Pheles' reason for not letting Wilhelmina help her is more simple. I think that Pheles and Johan are planning something which doesn't require Wilhelmina's assistance.

Since Pheles told Wilhelmina 'I'm sorry' before she left, I think that she does know that Wilhelmina wants to help her and that she's hurting Wilhelmina by shutting her out. I do think that Pheles really sees Wilhelmina as an important person, so I guess that Pheles either doesn't want Wilhelmina to be in danger because of her or that she's going to do something which she doesn't want Wilhelmina to see. I still think that Johan won't be able to last without the Reiji Maigo, so I guess that by releasing Johan from the reiji maigo, Pheles and Johan are planning some kind of last-ditch effort to save their existences.
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