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Old 2012-02-28, 16:53   Link #201
AC-Phoenix
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Voxxen View Post

What??? You say There is no evidence that this is a mystery, but then you turn around and say the mystery is there and well hidden? Is this not how most mystery's are?
I usually copy past the quotes from the forum to word and back for longer posts so I might have set the quote tag too soon. (too lazy to look it up atm) The part saying that there is no sign of it being a mystery was definitely a quote though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyfall View Post
Could you elaborate on this ? I'm afraid I don't quite understand what you are referring to here.
Kouichi was always there when something happened, or had at least some form of connection(phone) to the victim shortly before it happened to the with the closest relation. There was no mention of an incident other than Yukari's mother dying and the teacher's being killed, and both Yukari and the Teacher were always close to Kouchi.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyfall View Post
Why would either of them dying be a perquisite to them shaking hands O_o.
Not for that, but Izumi said that her hand remembers him, she might have hold it for some reason back then for some reason. It was only meant as a possibility.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyfall View Post
The most obvious time when this could have happened would be 1.5 years ago, during Koichi's visit to Yomiyama that has been erased from everyone's memory.
My point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyfall View Post
I'll have to ask you to elaborate on this one as well. What missing name and what record are we talking about? While calamity is in effects records get altered, so current-year records become useless for determining the Another while the phenomenon is in effect, as is the case at the moment.
There was a statement that one of the records (I think the year before; lets just assume it for the explanation) did not show who the dead one was. Yet, all other years the Another got added at the bottom of the roaster together with their original dying date.
As one of these records is missing this information, and we already know that the records get altered, we get a hint that the dead one now is the same who was dead a year before, since it would otherwise reveal who the dead in this year's 3-3 is.


(@Aurora twilight : Will answer as soon as got a bit more time.)
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Old 2012-02-28, 17:02   Link #202
Skyfall
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dengar
Besides, if Reiko is the extra, that leaves the glaring contradiction of the fact that the amount of seats in the classroom didn't add up,
Possible ways for how this could happen were already addressed above.

Quote:
and the fact that all of the other known extras were students from class 3 who had died. I still don't see why this year would be any different.
This is false. It was never stated in the show that the dead have been students exclusively, Mei's exact words were "People who have died due to the phenomenon up to now". If anything, the line carries a blatant implication that Another isn't necessarily someone from class 3, but potentially anyone from the crowd who have died thanks to the calamity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AC-Phoenix View Post
Kouichi was always there when something happened, or had at least some form of connection(phone) to the victim shortly before it happened to the with the closest relation. There was no mention of an incident other than Yukari's mother dying and the teacher's being killed, and both Yukari and the Teacher were always close to Kouchi.
Koichi has been witness to all of the incidents indeed, though I don't see how this influences anything. Since we see the story unfold through his perspective we wouldn't see the deaths otherwise, and if you are implying that he might be Another, it's already impossible because his father treats him as alive while being way outside any potential range the phenomenon could have. The very purpose of having his old man placed in India is to have him outside susceptible phenomenon range, whether it's Yomiyama sized zone of influence or even twice that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AC-Phoenix
There was a statement that one of the records (I think the year before; lets just assume it for the explanation) did not show who the dead one was. Yet, all other years the Another got added at the bottom of the roaster together with their original dying date.
As one of these records is missing this information, and we already know that the records get altered, we get a hint that the dead one now is the same who was dead a year before, since it would otherwise reveal who the dead in this year's 3-3 is.
The records don't just suddenly reveal the Another at the end of the year by themselves - the one (emphasis on one) instance we see a record with an added footnote is what Chibiki added himself, after year 1996. The reason he was able to solve the 1996 case was because he remembers Asakura Mami's name having been on the roster of 1996 (note that it wouldn't have been there after the records revert to normal), but her name already appearing on 1993 roster as someone who died then. As far as we are aware, this is the sole instance of him being able to deduct the identity of another, due to the unique set of circumstances outlined above, and to the best of our knowledge no other case of him deducting the identity of Another exists.
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Last edited by Skyfall; 2012-02-28 at 17:20.
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Old 2012-02-28, 17:09   Link #203
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyfall View Post
This is false. It was never stated in the show that the dead have been students exclusively, Mei's exact words were "People who have died due to the phenomenon up to now". If anything, the line carries a blatant implication that Another isn't necessarily someone from class 3, but potentially anyone from the crowd who have died thanks to the calamity.
I was thinking about this while watching epi 8 since a lot of people seem to think Reiko is Another. If it was noticed after the first Misaki died that there was one desk added why would there continue to be a desk if Another is someone outside of Class 3? Just because whoever is Another started that year after Misaki maybe?
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Old 2012-02-28, 17:33   Link #204
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AC-Phoenix View Post
Reiko is imho far out of the range as nothing has happened to her or Kouichi (yet). I also doubt that the phenomenon is about genes.
Chibiki stated that non-blood related relatives have never been targeted by the calamity, which implies that it is indeed related to genes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyfall View Post
TL;DR…
 
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You did a nice job summing up all the hints pointing to Reiko.

I'm personally quite fond of the Reiko = Another theory for a very simple reason: I think she's the best possible choice. Enough clues have been dropped so that very attentive viewers can have a chance of figuring it out if they wish to, and at the same time, said clues have remained subtle enough to ensure not everyone will. Futhermore, the solution to the mystery in this particular case is unorthodox enough (to the point some people won't even accept the possibility atm, since the show has been leading us to believe Another can only be a student) to surprise and even blow the mind of everybody else.

Think about it, everybody: what would be your reaction if Another was revealed to be a student? other than: "...Oh. So that was him." Even Kouichi being the extra wouldn't be surprising at all, as even the show has already toyed with this idea. And let's not even talk about Mei.

What would be your reaction if it was Reiko? You might be confused at first, but if the show provides explanations that makes perfect sense, wouldn't it make for an awesome twist? Especially since it wouldn't come out of absolutely nowhere (read above quote).
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Old 2012-02-28, 17:54   Link #205
Voxxen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AuraTwilight View Post
That's pretty much my point, here.



And none of them are Knox compliant.

If the criminal is not a normal human, we do not have a Knox-compliant mystery story. I was specifically referencing the definition Knox himself uses in his essays, please try and keep up.
My statements were not approving Knox in any such way... Like I said, his theory about mystery novels was disproved by even himself.

Also those books I threw out there is to prove that science fiction and mystery have been linked. Unless i misinterpreted your earlier statement about hypnosis being science fiction, because "Another" could turn out to be science fiction or even fantasy. Yet, since we are all trying to figure out who this "Another" is, it is a mystery to us because well... Its a mystery!

Quote:
I'm personally quite fond of the Reiko = Another theory for a very simple reason: I think she's the best possible choice. Enough clues have been dropped so that very attentive viewers can have a chance of figuring it out if they wish to, and at the same time, said clues have remained subtle enough to ensure not everyone will. Futhermore, the solution to the mystery in this particular case is unorthodox enough (to the point some people won't even accept the possibility atm, since the show has been leading us to believe Another can only be a student) to surprise and even blow the mind of everybody else.

Think about it, everybody: what would be your reaction if Another was revealed to be a student? other than: "...Oh. So that was him." Even Kouichi being the extra wouldn't be surprising at all, as even the show has already toyed with this idea. And let's not even talk about Mei.

What would be your reaction if it was Reiko? You might be confused at first, but if the show provides explanations that makes perfect sense, wouldn't it make for an awesome twist? Especially since it wouldn't come out of absolutely nowhere (read above quote).
Completely with you on this

Last edited by Voxxen; 2012-02-28 at 18:22.
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Old 2012-02-28, 18:28   Link #206
AC-Phoenix
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyfall View Post
Possible ways for how this could happen were already addressed above.



This is false. It was never stated in the show that the dead have been students exclusively, Mei's exact words were "People who have died due to the phenomenon up to now". If anything, the line carries a blatant implication that Another isn't necessarily someone from class 3, but potentially anyone from the crowd who have died thanks to the calamity.



Koichi has been witness to all of the incidents indeed, though I don't see how this influences anything. Since we see the story unfold through his perspective we wouldn't see the deaths otherwise, and if you are implying that he might be Another, it's already impossible because his father treats him as alive while being way outside any potential range the phenomenon could have. The very purpose of having his old man placed in India is to have him outside susceptible phenomenon range, whether it's Yomiyama sized zone of influence or even twice that.



The records don't just suddenly reveal the Another at the end of the year by themselves - the one (emphasis on one) instance we see a record with an added footnote is what Chibiki added himself, after year 1996. The reason he was able to solve the 1996 case was because he remembers Asakura Mami's name having been on the roster of 1996 (note that it wouldn't have been there after the records revert to normal), but her name already appearing on 1993 roster as someone who died then. As far as we are aware, this is the sole instance of him being able to deduct the identity of another, due to the unique set of circumstances outlined above, and to the best of our knowledge no other case of him deducting the identity of Another exists.
I'm not really sure about his father being out of range, as a simple phone call was already enough to change his memories. And considering that he remembers Kouichi being there it is fair to assume that he has been there as well back then.
I will again refer to sleeping murder:
Seeing things out of his perspective does not necessarily mean he is the one we should consider the detective. kouichi is not my prime suspect though, its Izumi for some reason.

About the record:
I understood it in the following way:
Every year he adds the name of the Another at the bottom of the record as 'deceased: xyz' and all the records, bar this certain have the deceased added later after it had happened.
So at the end of the year you would find them:

- In the original record with an X next to their name
- At the bottom as 'Deceased: <name>' in the year they were the Another-> added by librarian

So the name missing there is would be a hint of them being the Another again. Therefore neither the original record would show them as deceased nor the current one.
Only after everything is over the old records get reverted back so this time the person in question would appear on:

- Original record with an X
- Last years record where no deceased is shown as deceased: <name> again
- Current record, again as deceased: <name>

He aso never stated that he identified the another during the year. I assume he makes somehow sure that he remembers the current class members and compares it to the record later when everything is over.
another reason he could do this would be if the current record still lists the another as a student as soon as its over; As the old records would revert back he could compare them afterwards.
The record I'm talking about(the one now missing the deceased) was also mentioned as being suspicious.

Edit: Watched the episode again Chibaki said his 'as i recall' when talking about how checking records is meaningless - the pictures shown to us also suggest that the name next to the number is simply missing every year (an empty row) afterwards the row gets filled again. So identification at the end of the year is possible.
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Last edited by AC-Phoenix; 2012-02-28 at 18:51.
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Old 2012-02-28, 20:22   Link #207
don_Durandal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dengar View Post
Besides, if Reiko is the extra, that leaves the glaring contradiction of the fact that the amount of seats in the classroom didn't add up, and the fact that all of the other known extras were students from class 3 who had died. I still don't see why this year would be any different.
Actually if you check the beginning of episode 06, the number of desks was correct this year. That is, until Kouichi transferred in.
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Old 2012-02-28, 22:07   Link #208
FateAnomaly
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Quote:
Originally Posted by don_Durandal View Post
Actually if you check the beginning of episode 06, the number of desks was correct this year. That is, until Kouichi transferred in.
What you said doesn't explain why there will be a desk shortage if the Another isn't even in the class.
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Old 2012-02-28, 22:36   Link #209
AC-Phoenix
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Quote:
Originally Posted by don_Durandal View Post
Actually if you check the beginning of episode 06, the number of desks was correct this year. That is, until Kouichi transferred in.
No, because kouichi's desk was already planned in, as they knew he would come this term.
So his desk got already included in that calculation.
He was already in the city and his father already in India before the term started and Kouichi was already living with his grandparents.

The manga brought that over better as the introduction Box even states that it is the first day of school.
So he already lived there before the term started aand the school did thus already know he would come. - and yes they forgot this important, but minor detail which is why everyone thinks the number of chairs is off because of him
Another difference would be that his mother was smothered and not stabbed.
You see while both of them are actually just minor details one of them has a huge impact on what people could guess from it.

Edit because necessary:
- Also someone states in the Manga that the dead one does not know hes dead, my previous comment about missaki having 'culprit knowledge' is therefore disproven (not by the anime though)
Again, small detail great impact.
While everyone, bar the detective, is allowed to report their own perception, making this information doubtable, it is most likely true.

An additional difference that might be important for the outcome:
Izumi was not there when the others came for Kouichi, so the one giving him their hand in the hospital was not Izumi, but the male class represantative.
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Last edited by AC-Phoenix; 2012-02-28 at 22:58.
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Old 2012-02-28, 23:01   Link #210
Dengar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyfall View Post
This is false. It was never stated in the show that the dead have been students exclusively, Mei's exact words were "People who have died due to the phenomenon up to now". If anything, the line carries a blatant implication that Another isn't necessarily someone from class 3, but potentially anyone from the crowd who have died thanks to the calamity.
What I said was true. All the KNOWN extras were former students of class 3. Librarian guy has been keeping track of them and all of the ones he's been tracking were died in class 3 a couple years earlier.

Besides, even saying "but what about the ones he didn't track?" still doesn't account for them being one desk short this year.
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Old 2012-02-29, 01:36   Link #211
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There's no evidence to suggest there is just one dead person. The countermeasures working half the time could simply mean at times there was "one" (when it worked) while rest there was "another" (when it failed).
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Old 2012-02-29, 07:25   Link #212
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The possibility of there being more than one? That's the first time I see anyone bring up THAT possibility.
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Old 2012-02-29, 09:28   Link #213
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It would very much fit the title of the series imo
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Old 2012-02-29, 12:16   Link #214
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That being said, I can't exactly think of any way to prove that there isn't more than one.
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Old 2012-02-29, 13:32   Link #215
AC-Phoenix
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Originally Posted by Dengar View Post
That being said, I can't exactly think of any way to prove that there isn't more than one.
Only read up to chapter 12(which is as far as the anime is), but I think manga anime and LN will all 3 have a different person as the Another, so the Anime having 2 of them is not unthinkable.
The differences between the Manga and the anime are not exactly small, so the chance of having two different anothers is pretty high. (One of the differences is the way Izumi treats Kouichi, or how Reiko acts as shes a lot more down because of her sister than in the anime)



Quote:
Originally Posted by AuraTwilight View Post
Hypnosis does not allow for the rewriting of memories via telephone on people who are several countries away.
We were given a hint that his father has already been there at least once, namely 1.5 years ago. If the hypnosis got applied back then it is still valid, as both words and sounds are able to trigger its effects.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AuraTwilight View Post
Misaki claims that her doll eye lets her see things others can't. She might be able to see who the Another is through a clairvoyant sight, or has some completely mundane information that discredits Kouichi being the Another. Maybe for the same reason people seem to find him familiar.
This part goes ex alia causa to you. - the Manga states that the another is not aware of being dead.
It still leaves room to doubt that statement though.
Yet, doubting it further will not lead anywhere, so I admit deafeat. - Regarding this particular point, that is.
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Old 2012-02-29, 13:55   Link #216
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At this point in the show, I don't think there's been enough hints/evidence to 100% prove any theories people have of who the 'another' is.

I myself think it's Reiko, but it could just be the authors misdirecting us just as they did with Mei at the start of the show.

One thing's for sure. The range of the phenomenon isn't yomiyama. It's tied directly to the 'another' which leaves everyone that went on the trip as suspects, with Reiko being the prime suspect.
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Old 2012-02-29, 14:09   Link #217
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyfall View Post
The records don't just suddenly reveal the Another at the end of the year by themselves - the one (emphasis on one) instance we see a record with an added footnote is what Chibiki added himself, after year 1996.
Actualy in episode 7 there's a footnote added in 1983 with "dead person" written by hand and no name next to it.

To me that suggest that as early as 1983 Chibiki would get into the habit of writing down "dead person" at the start of the year and fill it in at the end.

Of course that is specualion maybe after 1996 he went back and added that footnote to every year hoping to figure it out later.

He also says to Kouichi

Quote:
It never became clear who the dead person was that year
He makes not finding out who the dead person was sound like an exception rather than the rule.
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Old 2012-02-29, 15:51   Link #218
AC-Phoenix
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Quote:
Originally Posted by totoum View Post
Actualy in episode 7 there's a footnote added in 1983 with "dead person" written by hand and no name next to it.

To me that suggest that as early as 1983 Chibiki would get into the habit of writing down "dead person" at the start of the year and fill it in at the end.

Of course that is specualion maybe after 1996 he went back and added that footnote to every year hoping to figure it out later.

He also says to Kouichi



He makes not finding out who the dead person was sound like an exception rather than the rule.
Actually more likely a hint that it is the same person twice in a row. As memories and the note about the deceased would get altered.
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Old 2012-02-29, 18:42   Link #219
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Quote:
My statements were not approving Knox in any such way... Like I said, his theory about mystery novels was disproved by even himself.

Also those books I threw out there is to prove that science fiction and mystery have been linked. Unless i misinterpreted your earlier statement about hypnosis being science fiction, because "Another" could turn out to be science fiction or even fantasy. Yet, since we are all trying to figure out who this "Another" is, it is a mystery to us because well... Its a mystery!
All of that is completely irrelevant to what AC-Phoenix and I were talking about, though.

Also, I must have missed something: What's the argument exactly for the Reiko = Another theory, and why some people are so convinced of it?
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Old 2012-02-29, 19:15   Link #220
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Assuming the Another is Reiko, there's been a handful of years where Chibiki cannot figure out the Another. Maybe in each of those years, the Another was a relative or otherwise someone not in the class?
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