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Old 2012-02-28, 18:27   Link #1201
Kyuu
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A large reputable warship, that is not part of any military.

Oh, that very much reminds me of Last Exile.
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Old 2012-02-28, 20:35   Link #1202
MeisterBabylon
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Pirates have cruisers. Right in the middle in terms of firepower, speed, and cargo capacity. That makes a lot of sense! Very useful infodump there.

So that means the Crest Eagle is only less than half a pirate ship size.
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Last edited by MeisterBabylon; 2012-02-28 at 22:28.
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Old 2012-02-29, 00:00   Link #1203
Shimapan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nochgo View Post
I need more Chiaki...
She was missing indeed... goo that she'll return next week.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nochgo View Post
The princess looked so much like Usagi. Was this intentional?
Wow... quick on the uptake, aren't you?
As if the name (Serenity) wasn't obvious enough, the hair style was pretty much a 1:1 copy of Usagi's typical odango hair style - except for a little detail, Usagi's tails are straight rather than slightly braided:
http://anidb.net/perl-bin/animedb.pl...er&charid=7320

The only thing that is totally unfitting is that they made the princes into a loli, very strange... she should better be Marika's age.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Random Wanderer View Post
Maybe, maybe not. It depends on how badly things have split in their government. Actively trying to kill a member of the royal family is a rather significant point of no return, and they may not be willing to cross that line just yet.
They were probably planning on having her killed while her whereabouts are unknown and then hushing it over and declare her as "lost".
That plan's thwarted now thanks to Marika, and killing her now in the open would have nasty consequences for them - besides, they most likely wouldn't be able to do it anyway, with her being on the Bentenmaru.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle View Post


OH MY GOD...IT'S SO RIDICULOUS MY COMP CRASHED LOADING IT
This is full of win
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Old 2012-02-29, 06:18   Link #1204
justpassingby
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From 2ch

Spoiler for Ep 10 - 12 titles:
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Last edited by justpassingby; 2012-02-29 at 08:41.
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Old 2012-02-29, 08:06   Link #1205
encia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyuu View Post
A large reputable warship, that is not part of any military.

Oh, that very much reminds me of Last Exile.
Both Mouretsu Pirates and Last Exile has a princess and a female pirate.
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Old 2012-02-29, 08:27   Link #1206
Kanon
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Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle View Post
OH MY GOD...IT'S SO RIDICULOUS MY COMP CRASHED LOADING IT
THIS IS THE BEST PV EVER!

It reminds me so much of that old hilarious gif (which I can't seem to find)
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Old 2012-02-29, 09:42   Link #1207
Random Wanderer
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Originally Posted by Shimapan View Post
The only thing that is totally unfitting is that they made the princes into a loli, very strange... she should better be Marika's age.
That's how she was written. They aren't out to completely destroy the novel character just for their shout-out. They changed her look, but she is still Princess Gruelle Serenity, and that means she's still a child. She is not Usagi.
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Old 2012-02-29, 17:21   Link #1208
AbZeroNow
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justpassingby View Post
From 2ch

Spoiler for Ep 10 - 12 titles:
Thanks for the info(and the earlier info that you posted).

Episode 10's title makes it sound intense, but I suppose a lot of the titles make things sound serious.
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Old 2012-02-29, 23:01   Link #1209
Wild Goose
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Gah, I lost internet for 2 days and missed out on a lot of interesting discussion, goddamnit. Well, here goes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 00Coyote View Post
I'm really curious what the capabilities of the Bentenmaru are. Electronic, and psychological warfare aside, how tough of a nut is this ship? I'm assuming she has decent armor, but probably relies on agility for primary defense. On offense I'd guess they'd go with a few big guns, as opposed to many small ones, dress to impress so to speak. In terms of size, I'll say she is a medium sized cruiser. She doesn't seem to have the heft of a battleship, but she is not a small ship. For a random guess on crew, 8 (named) bridge crew, 15-16 unnamed officers and 120 salty space dogs.
That sounds about right for a CA, especially if there's a high degree of automation in the works. What I find interesting, but appreciative of, is the crews working dress uniforms aren't the outlandish pirate gear, but a cargo pants, t-shirt, ship's jacket, ball cap... they give an impression of, while not quite being a naval vessel, at least a PMC of sorts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MeisterBabylon View Post
I'm guessing something like a EVE-type battlecruiser. If the Corback is a frigate, and the larger ship class whose name escapes me again a destroyer, then the Ben10maru is 2 classes above the destroyer. (Frigate-->Destroyer-->Cruiser-->Battlecruiser-->Battleship)

Given its trailer performance of armor tanking and flying about, I'd say the Ben10maru has a mix of traits both Odette II and something smaller, hence my guess of battlecruiser.
Like I said earlier, given that the Corback is termed as a goeikan/escort ship, I'm inclined to think it's a destroyer, since what the JMSDF calls an escort ship (like the Kongo and Atago-class escort ships) are what other navies call destroyers (cf US Arleigh-Burke-class destroyer, of which the Kongo and Atago are variant classes of).

Also, while battlecruisers in games and SF tend to be decent at tanking, IRL they weren't so effective in the line of battle, because BCs only have heavy cruiser armor, which can't tank BB shells, and they're bigger than CAs, which means they're easier targets to hit. Since Bentenmaru is also smaller than Odette II, I would strongly argue that this ship is classed as a heavy cruiser - fast enough to chase fleeing merchies, fast enough to run from BBs, and powerful enough to kill DDs and other escorts.

That's the beauty of a CA: it can kill what it can't outrun, and it can outrun what it can't kill.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 00Coyote View Post
A little task force called 'Taffy 3' would like to have words with you about wild maneuvering and battleships
Much of what has been said about this has been said already, so I'll just add that the Last Stand of the Tin Can Sailors didn't destroy Kurita's fleet, but drove them off, and in the end despite everything, the tin cans eventually took hits.

It was still balls out badass. Of that, I do not deny.

With regard to the Corback-class, I'm inclined to think that they're destroyer-class vessels; the JMSDF nomeculture used for them, goeikan/escort ship, is what other navies call destoryers. Again, USN-style Surface Action Group: 1 BB + 4 DD. DDs cover the BB and act as meat shields if necessary, while the BB concentrates on picking off the targets.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Random Wanderer View Post
Maybe, maybe not. It depends on how badly things have split in their government. Actively trying to kill a member of the royal family is a rather significant point of no return, and they may not be willing to cross that line just yet.
That's if we assume that onboard the pursued ship in Grunhild - and the website notes that she's illegitimate... Again, so long as the aggressors cover their tracks, all that the Serenity government could see from the wreckage is a destroyed Corback, killed by unknown enemies.

Quote:
Just given by how thoroughly the crew believed they outmatched a trio of destroyers, I have the impression that Bentenmaru has at least the firepower of a battleship (in terms of overall damage-output, not in number of guns) combined with the maneuverability of a cruiser. Admittedly, that's a lot to infer from relatively little information. But that's the feeling I have. If the enemy were just the four Corbacks, Bentenmaru would be perfectly capable of handling it, or if it was just the Talbot it would be a relatively even match (with speed and agility favoring Bentenmaru, and heavier armor and shields favoring the Talbot), but with them combined it becomes a riskier proposition.
Classing a warship leans more towards their tonnage and armor, not their guns, which was the whole point of Germany's Deutschland-class cruisers, which the Royal Navy called pocket battleships: heavy cruisers with battleship guns. Note also the USN's Alaska-class heavy cruiser, which was just slightly smaller than the Iowa-class battleships.

Interestingly, the three German pocket battleships - which the Kriegsmarine later classed as heavy cruisers, based on their displacement - were tasked with commerce raiding, sinking and capturing enemy shipping. Now why does that sound familiar....

tl;dr above: Bentenmaru is equivalent to the Kriegsmarine's pocket battleships: a heavy cruiser class ship with battleship-level guns, combining the agility, speed and endurance of a CA with the firepower of a BB, into a very effective commerce raider - which is exactly what a space pirate needs.

Also, this may just be me, but it looks like electronic warfare is awesome but impractical for large-scale engagements when the aggressor is outnumbered, given that so far the hacking EW we've seen involves taking over a single ship. Conventional EW (ECM, ECCM, etc) appears to still be viable, however.
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Old 2012-02-29, 23:29   Link #1210
Random Wanderer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Goose View Post
That's if we assume that onboard the pursued ship in Grunhild - and the website notes that she's illegitimate... Again, so long as the aggressors cover their tracks, all that the Serenity government could see from the wreckage is a destroyed Corback, killed by unknown enemies.
Actually, I was simply thinking that the pursuit ships might not be willing to get into a fight with the Bentenmaru once they know Gruelle is aboard. I know nothing of Grunhilde's location. You may want to check the official site again, however: Grunhilde is stated to be legitimate NOT illegitimate. Could be a typo, but it seems unlikely, since the same phrasing is used for Gruelle who is treated like a legitimate princess.
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Old 2012-03-01, 00:18   Link #1211
Cosmic Eagle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Goose View Post
Gah, I lost internet for 2 days and missed out on a lot of interesting discussion, goddamnit. Well, here goes.



That sounds about right for a CA, especially if there's a high degree of automation in the works. What I find interesting, but appreciative of, is the crews working dress uniforms aren't the outlandish pirate gear, but a cargo pants, t-shirt, ship's jacket, ball cap... they give an impression of, while not quite being a naval vessel, at least a PMC of sorts.



Like I said earlier, given that the Corback is termed as a goeikan/escort ship, I'm inclined to think it's a destroyer, since what the JMSDF calls an escort ship (like the Kongo and Atago-class escort ships) are what other navies call destroyers (cf US Arleigh-Burke-class destroyer, of which the Kongo and Atago are variant classes of).

Also, while battlecruisers in games and SF tend to be decent at tanking, IRL they weren't so effective in the line of battle, because BCs only have heavy cruiser armor, which can't tank BB shells, and they're bigger than CAs, which means they're easier targets to hit. Since Bentenmaru is also smaller than Odette II, I would strongly argue that this ship is classed as a heavy cruiser - fast enough to chase fleeing merchies, fast enough to run from BBs, and powerful enough to kill DDs and other escorts.

That's the beauty of a CA: it can kill what it can't outrun, and it can outrun what it can't kill.



Much of what has been said about this has been said already, so I'll just add that the Last Stand of the Tin Can Sailors didn't destroy Kurita's fleet, but drove them off, and in the end despite everything, the tin cans eventually took hits.

It was still balls out badass. Of that, I do not deny.

With regard to the Corback-class, I'm inclined to think that they're destroyer-class vessels; the JMSDF nomeculture used for them, goeikan/escort ship, is what other navies call destoryers. Again, USN-style Surface Action Group: 1 BB + 4 DD. DDs cover the BB and act as meat shields if necessary, while the BB concentrates on picking off the targets.


That's if we assume that onboard the pursued ship in Grunhild - and the website notes that she's illegitimate... Again, so long as the aggressors cover their tracks, all that the Serenity government could see from the wreckage is a destroyed Corback, killed by unknown enemies.



Classing a warship leans more towards their tonnage and armor, not their guns, which was the whole point of Germany's Deutschland-class cruisers, which the Royal Navy called pocket battleships: heavy cruisers with battleship guns. Note also the USN's Alaska-class heavy cruiser, which was just slightly smaller than the Iowa-class battleships.

Interestingly, the three German pocket battleships - which the Kriegsmarine later classed as heavy cruisers, based on their displacement - were tasked with commerce raiding, sinking and capturing enemy shipping. Now why does that sound familiar....

tl;dr above: Bentenmaru is equivalent to the Kriegsmarine's pocket battleships: a heavy cruiser class ship with battleship-level guns, combining the agility, speed and endurance of a CA with the firepower of a BB, into a very effective commerce raider - which is exactly what a space pirate needs.

Also, this may just be me, but it looks like electronic warfare is awesome but impractical for large-scale engagements when the aggressor is outnumbered, given that so far the hacking EW we've seen involves taking over a single ship. Conventional EW (ECM, ECCM, etc) appears to still be viable, however.
Well...junyoukan does mean cruiser in general so yeah, her WWII equivalent should be something like say Chikuma...
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Old 2012-03-01, 04:53   Link #1212
justpassingby
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Whenever I see 閃光, the first thing to come to mind
Spoiler:

Time to harass Terada to include Bentenmaru and the Voxes for the next SRW installment (or at least the ARIEL)
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Last edited by justpassingby; 2012-03-01 at 05:07.
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Old 2012-03-01, 09:34   Link #1213
MeisterBabylon
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Voxes.

In SRW.

I think the ENTIRE LondoBell gets Jerseyfied. And the Bentenmaru.

As for the delicious infodump... Heavy assault cruisers. Duly noted.
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Old 2012-03-01, 18:33   Link #1214
AbZeroNow
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MeisterBabylon View Post
Voxes.

In SRW.

I think the ENTIRE LondoBell gets Jerseyfied. And the Bentenmaru.

As for the delicious infodump... Heavy assault cruisers. Duly noted.
That would be cool to see the Bentenmaru Jerseyfied. Although seeing Madoka and Lan meet up with the Space Yacht Club would be very cool too. I would get a kick out of Jenny or Marika getting Julio's name wrong too. Also imagine the possibilities of a triple date with Marika X Chiaki, Jenny X Lynn and Madoka X Lan.
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Old 2012-03-01, 22:59   Link #1215
melange
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正統皇女 Seitou Koujyo - literally "legitimate princess" - used to describe both Gruelle and Grunhild, 第七正統皇女 and 第八正統皇女 respectively.
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Old 2012-03-02, 00:52   Link #1216
encia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Goose View Post
Classing a warship leans more towards their tonnage and armor, not their guns, which was the whole point of Germany's Deutschland-class cruisers, which the Royal Navy called pocket battleships: heavy cruisers with battleship guns. Note also the USN's Alaska-class heavy cruiser, which was just slightly smaller than the Iowa-class battleships.

Interestingly, the three German pocket battleships - which the Kriegsmarine later classed as heavy cruisers, based on their displacement - were tasked with commerce raiding, sinking and capturing enemy shipping. Now why does that sound familiar....

tl;dr above: Bentenmaru is equivalent to the Kriegsmarine's pocket battleships: a heavy cruiser class ship with battleship-level guns, combining the agility, speed and endurance of a CA with the firepower of a BB, into a very effective commerce raider - which is exactly what a space pirate needs.
The ship's defensive rating can change with different energy shield tech.
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Old 2012-03-02, 01:08   Link #1217
molitar
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Originally Posted by AbZeroNow View Post
I was going to comment on that but forgot. That guy complaining about too many lolis was either a really sad poster or a troll. Last time I checked, 15-18 year olds that look a little older are not considered loli. So what if the Princess appears to be around 12? (assuming that she's a first year middle school student in a Japanese-type school system. Or to Americans like me, she'd be in 7th grade) She's not even presented as anything resembling a sexualized character. Also the guy has the gall to complain about breast sizes in a series that is clearly not about the fanservice. I agree with the people that replied to that guy by telling him if he wants to see boobs, he should watch High School DxD instead. But anyway, I welcome the plot and interesting interactions that the Princess brings into the series. I also welcome the return of Chiaki and more Jenny & Lynn to this series. (And for the record I do ship Marika X Chiaki and Jenny X Lynn)



I would definitely trust the English version of the official site over Crunchyroll's subs. So I guess I'll remember to refer to the princess as "Gruelle" instead of Gruier. That was definately a very useful find. Thanks Wanderer. Our waifu, Jenny, would be proud.
Yep I agree go watch Highschool DxD alot of boobs for you. The only thing I want though is realistic dynamics on their clothing.. girls floating around with skirts on and not a panty flash is too unrealistic. If they don't want any panties showing than they should be putting them in shorts, pants, bloomers.. anything but skirts so the dynamics could be kept realistic. One thing that drives me nuts is clothing that seems like they are made of cardboard or something and never seem to move. That is just a cop out method for animation and I believe it's lazy animators that do this for getting around no pantsu at all glimpses.

I had some hope for some realistic dynamics and animation when they showed Chiaki panty flash when she was on the bar stool that one time but than no more as if they got lazy when animating.
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Old 2012-03-02, 01:21   Link #1218
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BD vol 2 Cover from amazon jp [link]:
Spoiler:
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Old 2012-03-02, 01:37   Link #1219
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justpassingby View Post
BD vol 2 Cover from amazon jp [link]:
Spoiler:
She lookin' at you: "I need another serving... Or else I'll do a Go-Go Yubari on you."
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Old 2012-03-02, 01:38   Link #1220
Random Wanderer
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Originally Posted by molitar View Post
Yep I agree go watch Highschool DxD alot of boobs for you. The only thing I want though is realistic dynamics on their clothing.. girls floating around with skirts on and not a panty flash is too unrealistic. If they don't want any panties showing than they should be putting them in shorts, pants, bloomers.. anything but skirts so the dynamics could be kept realistic. One thing that drives me nuts is clothing that seems like they are made of cardboard or something and never seem to move. That is just a cop out method for animation and I believe it's lazy animators that do this for getting around no pantsu at all glimpses.

I had some hope for some realistic dynamics and animation when they showed Chiaki panty flash when she was on the bar stool that one time but than no more as if they got lazy when animating.
I got tired of hearing this response weeks ago. Get over it.
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