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Old 2012-03-02, 21:21   Link #41
haguruma
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marina2 View Post
Thank for the answer.


Spoiler for About Izumi fate in anime compare to manga&novel:
I'm glad to be able to help by providing some answers...though I'm always a little anxious about revealing too much to people who don't really want to know that much

Well there is reason behind her featuring in a lot more scenes in the anime compared to both other media.
Spoiler for whole plot-difference concerning Akazawa:


EDIT:
Though most people won't go to this thread until the anime is over I made a list of what is different between the anime and the original novel so far. I found some of the changes good, some bad...I'm still pretty excited to see how they will pull off the very end. If anybody who has read the novel noticed any further differences I'd be interested if I missed some (I have that feeling I did)...or maybe anybody has an opinion about the changes XD
Spoiler for differences novel to anime:

Last edited by haguruma; 2012-03-26 at 18:41.
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Old 2012-03-10, 21:54   Link #42
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can anyone who has read the book or manga tell me if mochizuki gets killed?
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Old 2012-03-11, 01:07   Link #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haguruma View Post
EDIT:
Spoiler for differences novel to anime:
Spoiler for ...:


Quote:
Originally Posted by mei misaki fan View Post
can anyone who has read the book or manga tell me if mochizuki gets killed?
Spoiler for Mochizuki:

Last edited by Rememblaire; 2012-03-11 at 06:27.
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Old 2012-03-13, 10:14   Link #44
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After EP 10 it seems that
Spoiler for Novel death:
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Old 2012-03-13, 23:19   Link #45
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Originally Posted by AC-Phoenix View Post
After EP 10 it seems that
Spoiler for Novel death:
Spoiler for Well...:
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Old 2012-03-18, 01:21   Link #46
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Spoiler for Novel ending:
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Old 2012-03-18, 05:46   Link #47
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Originally Posted by Morisato View Post
Spoiler for Novel ending:
Spoiler for Mystery solution:
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Old 2012-03-18, 05:53   Link #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sa547 View Post
Spoiler for Well...:
Hah. I knew it. Although some confusions are still arising...

Spoiler for Hmmm..:
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Old 2012-03-18, 09:09   Link #49
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Originally Posted by haguruma View Post
Spoiler for Mystery solution:
Spoiler:
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Old 2012-03-25, 13:19   Link #50
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Im puzzled:

Spoiler for About the manga ending:
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Old 2012-03-25, 14:06   Link #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diveman View Post
Im puzzled:

Spoiler for About the manga ending:
No you got it the wrong way around.
Spoiler for manga vs. novel:
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Old 2012-03-26, 17:46   Link #52
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So much differences in each media's ending, maybe too much O.O
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Old 2012-03-26, 23:17   Link #53
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True, though if you think about it, it's a good way to maintain suspense for a group of readers who are probably going to consume all 3 media. While maintaining the same basic plot and the identity of the Another, the changes in how the story plays out makes for variation and interest.

Of course, it also immediately makes an open invitation for every person who experiences them to say, "The novel explained the clues better" or "Izumi was a better character in the anime" or whatever their particular take on things was.
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Old 2012-03-27, 08:01   Link #54
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While there were apparently more clues in the novels, it appears the reveal that Reiko = Mikami was just as frustrating for the readers, if not more since the novel is written from Kouichi's point of view and the reader was privy to this thoughts. It really feels like a huge cheat. That reminds of a certain game... whose conclusion I hated for the same reason. This is not how you write a good mystery, imo.

I like what the anime did with Izumi's character. Her previous meeting with Kouichi and her brother having been in class 3 two years ago were decent red herrings. Izumi's character made for a nice "distraction" (I'm not talking about her boobs) from the truth.
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Old 2012-03-27, 09:28   Link #55
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While there were apparently more clues in the novels, it appears the reveal that Reiko = Mikami was just as frustrating for the readers, if not more since the novel is written from Kouichi's point of view and the reader was privy to this thoughts. It really feels like a huge cheat. That reminds of a certain game... whose conclusion I hated for the same reason. This is not how you write a good mystery, imo.
Actually it's exactly how you write certain kinds of mysteries. Especially when it comes to description tricks, which are huge in Japan's mystery fiction genre, you are expected to doubt what is given to you as much as what is kept from you. Only because you are witnessing a story as a first person narrative it's not at all given that you will gain every information concerning the solution. Just think of a certain Agatha Christie story where the whole reveal centered around the narrative mode being unreliable.

I agree that it stands on the boundary of a fair mystery, but the question is whether this was meant to be just that. The genre is, even by the author himself, categorized as horror and is clearly seperated from his pure mystery novels. But I admit that Ayatsuji Yukito tends to be a little bit too experimental with narrative unreliability and description tricks. Half of the time it works (e.g. Murder in the Waterwheel Mansion, Murder in the Labyrinth Mansion) and at other times it simply does not work out for me (e.g. Murder in the Decagon Mansion).

Yet I would rather group another with similar novels he wrote which tend more into the horror direction. Like Scarlet Whispering which is clearly inspired by Dario Argento's 70's movies. Those in turn were inspired by detective mystery fiction as well and some of them actually were quite clever mysteries (e.g. Profondo Rosso - Deep Red) but they are still grouped as horror or slasher films first.
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Old 2012-03-27, 10:23   Link #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haguruma View Post
Actually it's exactly how you write certain kinds of mysteries. Especially when it comes to description tricks, which are huge in Japan's mystery fiction genre, you are expected to doubt what is given to you as much as what is kept from you. Only because you are witnessing a story as a first person narrative it's not at all given that you will gain every information concerning the solution. Just think of a certain Agatha Christie story where the whole reveal centered around the narrative mode being unreliable.
That might be how certain mysteries are written, but was it really necessary in this case? Dr. Sheppard had a compelling reason not to reveal that he killed Roger Ackroyd, since he's actually writing the narrative (and it's being read by Poirot) within the story. Koichi, on the other hand, did not have anything to hide unless he knew that Reiko was the dead person, which he didn't.

If the novel had come right out and said Reiko was Ms. Mikami right in the beginning, how obvious would it be that she was the Another, or are the clues only able to be put together at the end? I would think that focusing on the brainbug that the Another has to be a student would be sufficient distraction for 600 pages.
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Old 2012-03-27, 11:47   Link #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haguruma View Post
Actually it's exactly how you write certain kinds of mysteries. Especially when it comes to description tricks, which are huge in Japan's mystery fiction genre, you are expected to doubt what is given to you as much as what is kept from you. Only because you are witnessing a story as a first person narrative it's not at all given that you will gain every information concerning the solution. Just think of a certain Agatha Christie story where the whole reveal centered around the narrative mode being unreliable.
*nod* Having read as much John Dickson Carr* as I have, I'm quite used to those kind of tricks and tropes. Honestly, I thought the reveal of Reiko as being Ms. Mikami was one of the better parts of the ending (especially since the fact that she was the Another wasn't based on her being Sakakibara's aunt--that was just an extra emotional punch to add to the main character and a source of additional clues).

*The Nine Wrong Answers is almost as over-the-top at that as the Christie mystery you're citing (which, IMHO, was the only decent part of that particular Christie mystery, but I digress), where the clue was...

Spoiler for Carr spoilers:


...but yes, I think your more cogent point is that Another is a horror story with mystery elements. It's not necessarily supposed to be a fair-play mystery at all, and the fact that there are enough clues to leave me thinking "I should have noticed that!" at the end of the story is, to me, a bonus. I have to say, I'd love to see the novel picked up for an English-language release.
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Old 2012-03-27, 12:37   Link #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DezoPenguin View Post
*nod* Having read as much John Dickson Carr* as I have, I'm quite used to those kind of tricks and tropes. Honestly, I thought the reveal of Reiko as being Ms. Mikami was one of the better parts of the ending (especially since the fact that she was the Another wasn't based on her being Sakakibara's aunt--that was just an extra emotional punch to add to the main character and a source of additional clues).[/spoiler]
Pretty much this. The only problem I actually have with the trick is that the author uses it to death in his novels. This goes so far that I assume I was actually kind of influenced into a certain direction from the very beginning. I'm not going into his stories with the mindset "what might his trick be" anymore, but thinking "where is the description trick this time".
I really loved it how in his Murder in the Labyrinth Mansion he used the fact that it was a novel within a novel fictionalizing a murder case in the world of the novel and was thus able to conceal the identity of the culprit
[spoiler=Meirokan no satsujin]by making us overlook that there is in fact one woman more besides those that are actually refered to as women, thus making us exclude said character when the hint of menstrual blood is actually given to us by the detective.
In his very first novel Murder in the Decagon Mansion on the other hand I found it just a little bit too much, mostly because the culprits way of creating an alibi was so overly complicated.
Spoiler for Jukkakukan no satsujin:


Another's trick was pretty well played I think. It was possible to deduce it, even more so in the novel because K˘ichi had so much more slip-up moments where he would talk to Mikami like she wasn't his teacher. Like in one scene where she asks him if he thought of bringing an umbrella to school and he tells her along the lines of "grandma promised to pick me up, so no biggy" only to correct himself hastily one second later.
Granted the anime couldn't do as much because it was much more compact than the novel and too many hints would have blown the covers too early. In a real detective mystery it is still fun once you think you got it right and you watch the characters guess along, but it's pretty hard to keep up tension and suspense in a horror story once you know the boundaries of said horror.

Quote:
...but yes, I think your more cogent point is that Another is a horror story with mystery elements. It's not necessarily supposed to be a fair-play mystery at all, and the fact that there are enough clues to leave me thinking "I should have noticed that!" at the end of the story is, to me, a bonus. I have to say, I'd love to see the novel picked up for an English-language release.
I would actually do a translation of Another with the help of a competent editor, but it'd be pretty hard to sell the idea to a publisher with current problems on the book market anyway....and handling the communication with the Japanese publisher on my own, no way

And yes, I think many people expected too much when this was announced because of the author's reputation. He's much better known for his mystery than for his suspense thrillers; it's pretty much as if a Stephen King series was announced and turning out to be a drama or pure fantasy setting, most people would be expecting horror.
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Old 2012-03-27, 17:26   Link #59
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Originally Posted by haguruma View Post
Actually it's exactly how you write certain kinds of mysteries. Especially when it comes to description tricks, which are huge in Japan's mystery fiction genre, you are expected to doubt what is given to you as much as what is kept from you. Only because you are witnessing a story as a first person narrative it's not at all given that you will gain every information concerning the solution. Just think of a certain Agatha Christie story where the whole reveal centered around the narrative mode being unreliable.
I don't think the two are comparable. As justsomeguy pointed out, the narrator had a valid reason to omit these clues (they were more than clues, in fact) in that Agatha Christie book. I thought that was a really clever trick because it made sense within the story for these pieces of informations to be absent from the book.

Quote:
Originally Posted by haguruma View Post
I agree that it stands on the boundary of a fair mystery, but the question is whether this was meant to be just that. The genre is, even by the author himself, categorized as horror and is clearly seperated from his pure mystery novels. But I admit that Ayatsuji Yukito tends to be a little bit too experimental with narrative unreliability and description tricks. Half of the time it works (e.g. Murder in the Waterwheel Mansion, Murder in the Labyrinth Mansion) and at other times it simply does not work out for me (e.g. Murder in the Decagon Mansion).

Yet I would rather group another with similar novels he wrote which tend more into the horror direction. Like Scarlet Whispering which is clearly inspired by Dario Argento's 70's movies. Those in turn were inspired by detective mystery fiction as well and some of them actually were quite clever mysteries (e.g. Profondo Rosso - Deep Red) but they are still grouped as horror or slasher films first.
I agree with you. I'm actually not that mad about that twist. I already stated yesterday in the episode thread that Another was not a pure mystery and that I could therefore overlook this. Nevertheless, I still can't help but feel a bit cheated~
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Old 2012-03-28, 10:01   Link #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haguruma View Post
Actually it's exactly how you write certain kinds of mysteries. Especially when it comes to description tricks, which are huge in Japan's mystery fiction genre, you are expected to doubt what is given to you as much as what is kept from you. Only because you are witnessing a story as a first person narrative it's not at all given that you will gain every information concerning the solution. Just think of a certain Agatha Christie story where the whole reveal centered around the narrative mode being unreliable.

I agree that it stands on the boundary of a fair mystery, but the question is whether this was meant to be just that. The genre is, even by the author himself, categorized as horror and is clearly seperated from his pure mystery novels. But I admit that Ayatsuji Yukito tends to be a little bit too experimental with narrative unreliability and description tricks. Half of the time it works (e.g. Murder in the Waterwheel Mansion, Murder in the Labyrinth Mansion) and at other times it simply does not work out for me (e.g. Murder in the Decagon Mansion).

Yet I would rather group another with similar novels he wrote which tend more into the horror direction. Like Scarlet Whispering which is clearly inspired by Dario Argento's 70's movies. Those in turn were inspired by detective mystery fiction as well and some of them actually were quite clever mysteries (e.g. Profondo Rosso - Deep Red) but they are still grouped as horror or slasher films first.
If the Agatha Christie Novel you have in mind here is S******* Mu****, then I can just agree. The difference between said Novels is that Kouichi hs both the narrative as well as the detective role, while Mrs Marpe does not have the former in mentioned Novel.
It is still a very good example for a few things that were bothereing me in this Novel too, actually even led me to the question whether Chibaki/original Misaki might be faking the pehnomenon. Namely the fact that S******* Mu**** is imho a very good example that both witnesses and culprits are allowed to twist the truth to their bidding as long as there are clues to the contrary.

Its just too bad that there is no official english translation for Another... Well hopefully once will come with Another 2....
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