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Old 2012-03-06, 17:57   Link #61
word sux
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yuutokun View Post
Surprised no one got into this but Im in a Japanese band so ive been delving into this issue alot lately. One major component of the jpop sound is the chord progression it uses. Particularly the IV7 V7 IIIm7 IVm pattern which is used in some form in over half of jpop/jrock songs. Especially in the choruses.

Go ahead, listen to all the jpop and jrock hits you know and you'll find it everywhere.
This comes from 80s eurobeat hence the 80s flair that people talk about.
Western songs such as Rick Astley Together Forever and Bananaramas Cruel Summer use it among others.

A more modern example would be Girls Not Grey by AFI (A song I really liked due to its similarity to jrock. Go figure)
There are other common progressions such as a special anime progression along with one developed by Komuro Testsuro from TM Network which is used in alot of 90s music and has a disco flair.
And of course there is good ole Canon such as Sakuranbo by Otsukai Ai among many others.

Other than the progressions I think as someone mentioned the syllables make the melodies slightly different as well as the fact that japanese sing in pure vowels to the notes. So the singing comes off more as a piano would. In natural English its really hard to sing like this.

Im sure theres more that I havent explored but this is what Ive noticed thus far.
 

I agree that jade pudget of afi has a similar playing style to allot of the jrock guitarists.

There also seems to be a greater influence of classical music in the japanese rock culture.
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Old 2012-03-16, 23:01   Link #62
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When finding the differences in "pop" music from different countries check out their folk music. I'm not talking about "Folk Music". The folk music of each country has a profound effect on their perspectives on "pop" music. When I lieten to Japanese music I can hear the influence of their folk music in it... Or should I say: Traditional music.
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Old 2012-03-16, 23:09   Link #63
Vexx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bikerider View Post
When finding the differences in "pop" music from different countries check out their folk music. I'm not talking about "Folk Music". The folk music of each country has a profound effect on their perspectives on "pop" music. When I lieten to Japanese music I can hear the influence of their folk music in it... Or should I say: Traditional music.
This is quite true... my son has been bringing home what I'll call Persian and Turkish rock music. Gypsy rock has interesting tonalities and time signatures... the same effects can be seen in asian interpretations of rock.
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Old 2012-08-12, 17:29   Link #64
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To write a typical Japanese melody, you need to understand it inside and out. Keep it traditional so that a Japanese ear can pick up and understand it right away, these types of chord progression and this melodies find their way into almost every style of Japanese music, Japanese heavy metal, pop, ...
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Old 2012-08-16, 02:09   Link #65
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Originally Posted by papermario13689 View Post
Unfortunately, I do know what sampling is.

The problem is: I grew up listening to the old songs. When it becomes a sample in a hip-hop or modern rock song, I just end up disliking it.

I definitely should have worded that better, but the bottom line is: compare Japanese music to English music. How much sampling is done in both?

Anyways, sampling is something that I dislike in general; I will never do it when composing music. I didn't mean the music itself was "bad", but this is what happens:

- On our local radio (which is always played like everywhere), I hear a song that has a sample in it. When its done, the announcer makes a big deal of the song, saying that it's "very creative" and "completely original".

So I guess my disappointment lies with our radio station~


Best example I could think of is the Song "I Saw Her Standing There" by The Beatles. Its one of the most iconic songs of the Beatles as the intro to please please me, but why? Well words taken from Paul McCartney

"Here’s one example of a bit I pinched from someone: I used the bass riff from 'Talkin’ About You' by Chuck Berry in 'I Saw Her Standing There'. I played exactly the same notes as he did and it fitted our number perfectly. Even now, when I tell people, I find few of them believe me; therefore, I maintain that a bass riff hasn’t got to be original"

Basically copied that entire riff lol

----
Quote:
Originally Posted by Varaxis View Post
Japanese Rock adds pop/metal/R&B/etc tastefully. They call that alternative Rock in America.
Agreed!
------

Again I still believe that its all in the syllables, and tone of the language

too keep things short
same artiest same song two different languages

Closer
by Inoue Joe
Spoiler for Original:

Spoiler for English Version:



I want to hold your hand
by The Beatles
Spoiler for Original:

Spoiler for German Version:

----------------
A mix of English and Japanese

Spoiler for Paper Moon By Tommy Heavenly6:


Spoiler for Tsubasa wo kudasai (self explanatory):



Last edited by Afternoon Tea; 2012-08-17 at 05:31.
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Old 2012-09-22, 11:51   Link #66
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I'd say as a generality, like you said songs are more happier and cuter. Singers seem to focus a lot on sounding more cute, versus American singers try sounding experienced. Which isn't to say Japanese music sounds worse, I actually like their approach more. American singers, when they are girls, also have a bit of a more trashy or dirty look, which is not so in Japan.

There also seems to be more influenced from electronic music and has more electronic/dance themes, while Americans put more emphasis on how absolutely awesome the electric guitar is. Even then that depends on the kind of rock, since some are focused on instrumentals more than vocals.

I also love the overuse of Engrish in Japanese music, while Americans rarely put foreign languages in their lyrics. There may be reference to foreign names or culture, but never foreign words.



I have a question though; does Japanese death metal exist?
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Old 2012-09-27, 21:48   Link #67
Vexx
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That was one reason that JoanOvArc's hit single, "Say Sayonara" got my attention. Seems like I haven't heard a hit that incorporated Japanese in the lyrics since "Go, Go, Godzilla" from Blue Oyster Cult.

Half the JoanOvArc lyrics in that tune are in Japanese (and mostly grammatically correct as well). They're a UK rock band (all female).
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Old 2012-10-06, 00:45   Link #68
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Originally Posted by Nixonland View Post
I have a question though; does Japanese death metal exist?
I don't know if Dir en Grey qualifies, but I know they're real dark... and also I think there's a big death metal following so it's not impossible there's a death metal band or several in Japan.
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Old 2012-10-12, 09:12   Link #69
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I think its a pretty big misconception that J-Rock is "cuter" than American rock.

If I have to guess, it comes from the fact that this board is anime-based and most "rock songs" the ppls heard are anime related. Truth is, JRock can be as dark as American rock, but there is a distinguished difference between the two.

Jrock is more melodic and technical than Arock. Arock generally follows a very simple composition but a heavy influence from the "players". Or simpler terms, the "feel" of the music. Jrock on the other hand incorporates more technical and complex composition for their melodies, but in exchange for that the music is more predictable. I tend to think of rock as follow:

American Rock----British Rock----Asian Rock

Left side focus on less technicalities but more on feel, while right side borderlines on musical theory.
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Old 2012-11-20, 10:23   Link #70
ElCachicamo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iPonbiki View Post
Japanese music is basically American music from the 80s as far as I'm concerned.

Anime music in general tends to use a lot of the verse, chorus, repeat structure from what I've noticed as well. Harmonies for the most part are simple in Japanese music (I even transcribed one song recently that used almost nothing but the tonic and dominant chords for its chord progression. Basically a lot of primary and secondary triads, a few 7ths here or there and maybe a borrowed chord or two. The songs tend to stay in the same key throughout the entire song as well with the exception of a few rarities.

Japanese mainstream music also doesn't tend to experiment that much and go outside the norm, thus it tends to evolve slowly. It is also a youth dominated market and high tenors with lots of falsetto notes are often present in male vocals. Female vocals for the most part, from what I've transcribed and listened to, often stay within the middle C to male high C range only occasionally traveling to the E above that (and hardly ever any higher). On that note Japanese (and Asia in general) is known for chewing up young talent and then abandoning them like yesterday's garbage. Seldom do you see a singer or group survive in the industry long term.

I wish I could speak for their lyrics, but I'm not familiar enough with their language to note any trends there.

The basic drums, bass guitar, rhythm guitar, and lead guitar (i.e. K-On!) is typical for a lot of anime music instrumentation as well. There are a few dance inspired synthesizer based groups though. R&B seems to be spreading at a rapid rate as well and a lot of non-animus artists seem to be gravitating towards that genre. The Oricon charts always seem to be cluttered with new R&B inspired groups every time I check.

Basically Japan is always one step behind America when it comes to music, and they really like to listen to and imitate all of our music.
You are so wrong is not even funny, Japanese musicians are very eclectic most of the time. Western music is very simple, in American is very common the use of the same four chords progressions in mainstream music.

That's why you see videos like this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oOlDewpCfZQ

Japanese musicians like modulations a lot, they tend to incorporate pop melodies in their music and it doesn't matter if they are making Death Metal or a Rap song, It has to do with the music they grew up with, which is enka and old jpop. I also think that a lot of these Japanese musicians have a background in fusion. I suspect that some of them learn their instruments playing fusion or developed their skill jamming in a fusion band, even the "Malmsteen clones" are more versatile than Malmsteen himself, they can play everything.

Japanese songs tend to have a lot of chords because they like to modulate (change Keys) and those chords move around a lot in a Jazz kind of style or in a Classical Guitar kind of style (I'm classical Guitarist), R&B is not that present in jpop as this person said, actually Blues in general is not very prominent in Japanese music, their guitarists have a more classical approach to it like the guitarists from Europe, Metal in Europe doesn't have that many Blues in it and it's the same with Japanese Metal.

They do experiments in their music all the time, come on you need to be serious when you talk about something, this is one of the reasons why Marty Friedman lives there and not in America.

This was number one in Japan
Perfume Polyrhythm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PrYKtahrWU


Talking about "simple" rhythms. This is from K-On, IMHO Yui and Ritsu couldn't understand the rhythm in this song, let alone play the song.

GO! GO! MANIAC
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jDngv...=results_video

Another difference is that in western rock or metal music the Riff is the main thing, everything else is build around that and in Japanese music the melody is much more important doesn't matter what are you doing, so obviously they sound very different, there is a lot of more thinking in the building and release of tension when the Japanese are composing melodies.

There is a lot more going in on when you're talking about arrangements for the instruments as well but this thing is too long and I'm lazy as hell.
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Old 2012-11-28, 21:20   Link #71
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I hear alot of influences in J-Rock/Pop derived from older western music (60-80 era) Almost a newer version of our old music, as new western mainstream music is sounding more simpler (for the lack of better words), less instrumental or background complexity if you will.
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Old 2013-01-03, 20:35   Link #72
Justin Kim
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yuutokun View Post
Surprised no one got into this but Im in a Japanese band so ive been delving into this issue alot lately. One major component of the jpop sound is the chord progression it uses. Particularly the IV7 V7 IIIm7 IVm pattern which is used in some form in over half of jpop/jrock songs. Especially in the choruses.

Go ahead, listen to all the jpop and jrock hits you know and you'll find it everywhere.
This comes from 80s eurobeat hence the 80s flair that people talk about.
Western songs such as Rick Astley Together Forever and Bananaramas Cruel Summer use it among others.

A more modern example would be Girls Not Grey by AFI (A song I really liked due to its similarity to jrock. Go figure)
There are other common progressions such as a special anime progression along with one developed by Komuro Testsuro from TM Network which is used in alot of 90s music and has a disco flair.
And of course there is good ole Canon such as Sakuranbo by Otsukai Ai among many others.

Other than the progressions I think as someone mentioned the syllables make the melodies slightly different as well as the fact that japanese sing in pure vowels to the notes. So the singing comes off more as a piano would. In natural English its really hard to sing like this.

Im sure theres more that I havent explored but this is what Ive noticed thus far.
 
That chordal progression you mentioned is used in Western Music as well. Much of the similarities lie within the basic structure.

In essence, most of the music that we hear is based off centuries of musical development. Be thankful we don't have to go to Mass and sit to 2 hours of Gregorian Chants with a homophonic, single melodic line.

As for the difference, I have noticed that the Japanese language causes some differences in articulation. For instance, their phonetic structures from Hiragana/Katakana allows them to express a word in a syllabic fashion. This is more prevalent within other Southeast Asian countries as well. Most Korean individuals make nuances on the syllables when it comes to music. In Western music however, the English language dictates the combination of syllables in order to sing a melodic line.

Another thing that is technically different is the manner in which JRock bands produce their sounds. I have seen some interesting combinations of rock, jazz, and even electronic music in which a synthesizer or some kind of distortion effect is used. Interestingly enough, these combinations are barely altered by a sound engineer. Home Made Kazoku sound very similar to their studio recordings when playing live.

The lack of auto tune is a plus. Not to bash on the music that we see in America, but I find Japanese music to be consistently poetic. Rock, or music in America has kind of developed into a solo artist utilizing an incredible amount of resources such as composers, sound engineers, etc. to produce a single song. Credit is barely given to these producers, just like the KPop dance scene in Korea. In essence, Japanese music has a form of legitimacy. The bands "own" their music, and behind them are a talented group of individuals willing to express their poetry by various forms.
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Old 2013-01-13, 06:09   Link #73
Tri-ring
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Here is something I noticed;

This is Hotei playing his most famous note;



If you listen to Tsugaru Shamisen I believe you will find a resemblance.



No matter how you quantify it in science there is a certain distinctive DNA that flows through, don't you think?
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Old 2013-01-16, 11:51   Link #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
This is quite true... my son has been bringing home what I'll call Persian and Turkish rock music. Gypsy rock has interesting tonalities and time signatures... the same effects can be seen in asian interpretations of rock.
I definitely see this in music of Middle Eastern origin, however I have trouble noticing much connection between Japanese traditional music and their modern rock and pop... Maybe a little bit in their sense of timing, but that's about it.

Speaking of which, I am very fond of traditional Japanese music. Well, I tend to be fond of all types of traditional music from around the world, really.
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Old 2013-05-20, 18:14   Link #75
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A lot of Japanese music plays in keys that are distinctly different than American music, I'm not sure how to word it... it's "off key" to ears used to American sounding music, when it isn't "off key" at all. I seem to have a preference if not bias towards east Asian music now because when switching back to American music it's all so generic and same sounding, it doesn't matter the genre or decade lol. This is my own personal opinion and feeling.
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Old 2013-05-25, 10:04   Link #76
Monster0
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People today are so far attached from the origins of rock 'n' roll.Mixing different styles together to create a new feel to music as been going on for some time now.There is no difference as to the approach except that they live in japan.I see japan today as going through somewhat of a musical revolution in that many groups don't sound alike.Great bands have their own sound,that's all there is to it.
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Old 2013-06-24, 21:26   Link #77
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Originally Posted by sa547 View Post
I don't know if Dir en Grey qualifies, but I know they're real dark... and also I think there's a big death metal following so it's not impossible there's a death metal band or several in Japan.
Plenty of gothic and melodeath circles every comiket...

Check Kissing The Mirror, Barrage Am Ring or Thousand Leaves. Those three are the better ones
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Old 2013-06-27, 06:57   Link #78
bishounenlover
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I find japanese rock to be astoundingly poetic. way more than english rock. often times they leave you wondering if you really understood what they were trying to say and to many westerners the lyrics are too deep for them to comprehend. for example the gazette's song kago no sanagi ruki says

その優しき嘘に今なら溶け込める
曖昧に乱すのならバラバラにして
Sono yasashiki uso ni ima nara tokekomeru
Aimai ni midasu no nara barabara ni shite
I can now melt into your sweet lies
If you're gonna faintly disturb me like this, just rip me to pieces

very thought provoking stuff.

also, another reason why japanese rock is different from english rock is their music theory is different and way more complex than western music someone who has studied western music theory their whole life will have to spend a long time transitioning.

And if we're talking japanese metal, i enjoy the fact that they put a lot of thought into the melody and actually singing at out the lyrics is incredible vocal ability not just screaming all the time like in western metal.
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Old 2013-09-02, 14:49   Link #79
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Certainly like someone previous posted, Jrock/pop melodies are much more involved and adventurous than western pop music melodies, a lot less cliche too. I notice there's a bit more III IV chord movements going on, hardly ever hear that in western pop. And I also find that Jmusic uses more ehh "orchestration" for lack of better term, than western pop music.

Western Pop a lot of times = Guitar, Bass, Drums, Singer, with some variation.

Jrock/pop (at least what I like) = Bass, Piano, Singer, MIDI, Synth, Strings, Electronic mix ups and crazy stuff I don't know what to call it, with some variation.

The Jmusic mixes it up more!
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