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Old 2012-03-07, 20:08   Link #1
ganbaru
books-eater youkai
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Betweem wisdom and insanity
I really could use some advice...

I could really use some advices on my current situation, which could end up being a good opportunity or a trap, if not both...

The situation; right now, I am doing the job of my chef ( she had a accident outside work) and pretty much everyone assume than she don't want to come back.
The ownwers of the hotel where I work offered me more or less to take her place at the next season but, I see many potentials problems with he post. I am not talking about the pay ( I don't expect it to be much) or the amount of work (probably more than 60hours the bigs weeks).
The ownwers themself worry me more thant that, they have proven many time to be extremely slow to take decission or to take actions but they are prone to interfere a lot in the kitchen's affair. The last two chefs complained more than a little about this.
Another problem is the ''brigade'' ( who's working in the kitchen) next season, of the current brigade, there will only remain me, a dishwasher guy and a part-time on wich I have little trust. The hotel will take on news staff of course but they are more likely to choose ( if they have some choice) soem young cook with no training than some experimented one. Not necesairely because of the cost ( even thought it's a factor) but more because I don't expect much than a experimented one would apply. Given the local situation, I don't expect than many cook with a good position will take a risk with the work's market.
The last serious problem is the ''after'', then I would left the place to go someone else, I worry about the impact on my resumme. It's a small hotel, so it would be hard to go on another post of chef on a big place only based on this experience but it's likely to make me overqualified for some low post, restricting my possibility of finding another post.

Right now, I see only 3 solutions; To accept the post with all teh issue with it and hope to be very lucky, to refuse the post and maybe they will find a cappable chef, or to resignate of my post at the end of the season and trying to find a better place, and to be honest the first and the last solution are tempting me as much as the others.
If someone have some good advices, it would be very appreciated.
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Old 2012-03-07, 20:30   Link #2
Urzu 7
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Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: New England
Age: 30
So you told us some downfalls of taking this new position. Detail for us the downfalls of not taking this position, and detail for us the downfalls of taking the position for the season, but not for next season. This will help us better explore your options and help you better decide what to do.
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Old 2012-03-07, 21:46   Link #3
ganbaru
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Betweem wisdom and insanity
Of course, I had given a pessimistic possibility of taking the post, thing could go well but it's more likely to go toward the bad outcome than the good one...

I can see 3 possibility if I son't take the post but stay there. 1 they find a competend chef and everything end fine. 2, they find a bad chef, one than make bad situation even worse. I had 2 or 3 of than kind before, it's a thing I wouldn't want usualy and even more for the season than we are likely to get . 3 , the owners don't take on ( or find) a new chef, which would end up as if I would had accepted the post...

To accept teh post for this season but not for the next one isn't really a possibility, it's the current situation. I am doing all the work than the chef would be doing at this moment if not more, while getting the same pay as before. But the owners did promised me a bonus at the end of the season.
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Old 2012-03-07, 21:56   Link #4
Urzu 7
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Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: New England
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So is it hard for you to refuse the post? You could, but would it be hard because they are relying on you now?
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Old 2012-03-07, 22:17   Link #5
SaintessHeart
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 25
Rule of the thumb when you receive any offer : ALWAYS, ALWAYS NEGOTIATE. Never accept it outright. List down the pros and cons before you make your decision, phrases like "I'll need to think through it.".

Although I don't exactly get what you say about your job, it is a good idea to take a look at the situation and assess it yourself rather than listen to other people's complaints; people adapt to things differently. Who knows, maybe your passion for the job or pay might even override the misgivings or doubt you have about the job.
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When three puppygirls named after pastries are on top of each other, it is called Eclair a'la menthe et Biscotti aux fraises avec beaucoup de Ricotta sur le dessus.
Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.
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Old 2012-03-07, 22:34   Link #6
ganbaru
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Betweem wisdom and insanity
@ Urzu 7 Yes the fact than they are relying on me is is kind of making it hard to refuse. And the fact than getting a good job if I quit will probably be hard given the current economy is lowering my eny to quit.

@ SaintessHeart, I realise than anyone reat differently to thing but one of the misgiving about the post, the owners, were among the reasons the last 2 chefs left. Even before I had to assume my chef's post, I saw problem about the onwers's decissions related to the kitchen.
Passion and bigger pay can do many thing but I don't see myself as a passionated nor a mercenary, but like a professional.
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Old 2012-03-07, 22:46   Link #7
SaintessHeart
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Age: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by ganbaru View Post
@ SaintessHeart, I realise than anyone reat differently to thing but one of the misgiving about the post, the owners, were among the reasons the last 2 chefs left. Even before I had to assume my chef's post, I saw problem about the onwers's decissions related to the kitchen.
Passion and bigger pay can do many thing but I don't see myself as a passionated nor a mercenary, but like a professional.
Here are the criteria to be a professional. It is not just about being good at what you do, liking what you do is a huge plus. Being "professional" is just an act, it is what you do out of your own heart in savage times that count.

Since the issue you have seems to be about the owners' decisions, I think it is good to take a look at what decisions the owner make that you have issues with, i.e How do they interfere with the kitchen decisions that make things difficult to work? Are there any work arounds? Are they forgetting that no matter how high their rank in management, the chef is always head of the kitchen?

Most importantly, is that you have to get the support of the other staff in there before you take on the post, when shit happens, they are your biggest allies, second is the eatery manager. Here is where social engineering comes in, provided that the people you work with are honest to themselves and don't partake in office politics.
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When three puppygirls named after pastries are on top of each other, it is called Eclair a'la menthe et Biscotti aux fraises avec beaucoup de Ricotta sur le dessus.
Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.
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Old 2012-03-08, 02:39   Link #8
TinyRedLeaf
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Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Singapore
Age: 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by ganbaru View Post
The situation; right now, I am doing the job of my chef ( she had a accident outside work) and pretty much everyone assume than she don't want to come back.
I never imagined you are a chef.

I feel you're over-thinking some of the issues but, don't fret, it's natural. Essentially, there are just two sides to consider: the work environment and yourself.
(i) The environment comes with the job. By that, I mean that it's not something you actually need to worry about because, by taking on the job, you implicitly accept the challenge of coping with the environment that defines it. You either do the job, or you don't. There is no try.

(ii) Then there is just yourself: What do you want from the job? What are you prepared to do? What do you not want to do? These are questions that only you can answer. If you're honest with yourself, the answers will tell you whether you actually want the job (and the environment that comes with it).

(1) Difficult bosses (environmental)
Quote:
Originally Posted by ganbaru View Post
The ownwers themself worry me more thant that, they have proven many time to be extremely slow to take decission or to take actions but they are prone to interfere a lot in the kitchen's affair. The last two chefs complained more than a little about this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ganbaru View Post
...but one of the misgiving about the post, the owners, were among the reasons the last 2 chefs left. Even before I had to assume my chef's post, I saw problem about the onwers's decissions related to the kitchen.
This is an environmental issue, because if you truly want the job, you'll find a way to cope with the hotel owners.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ganbaru View Post
Yes the fact than they are relying on me is is kind of making it hard to refuse.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ganbaru View Post
To accept teh post for this season but not for the next one isn't really a possibility, it's the current situation. I am doing all the work than the chef would be doing at this moment if not more, while getting the same pay as before. But the owners did promised me a bonus at the end of the season.
I sympathise but, still, don't succumb to the emotional blackmail. From an employer's point of view, no one is indispensable. It's great that they are relying on you (in which case, demand fair compensation, or threaten to walk), but don't let that make you feel obliged to stay. You don't owe your bosses a duty to make their hotel a success: that's their job, not yours.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ganbaru View Post
I can see 3 possibility if I don't take the post but stay there. 1 they find a competend chef and everything end fine. 2, they find a bad chef, one than make bad situation even worse. I had 2 or 3 of than kind before, it's a thing I wouldn't want usualy and even more for the season than we are likely to get . 3 , the owners don't take on ( or find) a new chef, which would end up as if I would had accepted the post...
Again, these are issues that you don't actually need to be concerned about, because they are in any case outside your control. If, because of their meddling, your bosses make your job impossible, you simply have to do what your predecessors did: quit and move on.

(2) Colleagues (environmental)
Quote:
Originally Posted by ganbaru View Post
Another problem is the ''brigade'' ( who's working in the kitchen) next season, of the current brigade, there will only remain me, a dishwasher guy and a part-time on wich I have little trust.
This is even more an environmental issue. It's great to have colleagues you can rely on and, even better, become friends with. But no matter how good or bad your colleagues, it's still up to you and you alone to do your job the best you can.

The issue of whether you like or dislike your job should have as little to do with your colleagues as possible. People will come and go. What happens if your favourite colleague suddenly quits for a better job elsewhere? Will that kill your interest in your job? If it does, then it's worth asking who you're really working for: yourself or your "friends"?

(3) Future prospects (personal)
Quote:
Originally Posted by ganbaru View Post
The last serious problem is the ''after'', then I would left the place to go someone else, I worry about the impact on my resume. It's a small hotel, so it would be hard to go on another post of chef on a big place only based on this experience but it's likely to make me overqualified for some low post, restricting my possibility of finding another post.
The way I see it, THIS is the real question, the only one you truly need to worry about, whether taking on this job will help develop your career.

Let me put it this way: Given all the potential challenges you've listed, chances are, you'll grow tremendously if you take on the opportunity, not just in terms of your professional skills, but also in terms of management experience. From this perspective, I don't see why a bigger hotel wouldn't hire you in the future. It'll just be a matter of marketing your abilities, which you will have if you succeed with the job.

So, first ask, can you see possible solutions to the challenges you've listed? Are you confident about implementing the solutions? If the answer to both questions is "no", then you already know that it's not a job you want.

Also, don't worry about being "over-qualified". That's more an issue of managing expectations, both on your part as well as that of future employers. You can cross that bridge when you come to it. You aren't there yet, so why worry about it?


In the end:
Quote:
Originally Posted by ganbaru View Post
Right now, I see only 3 solutions; To accept the post with all teh issue with it and hope to be very lucky, to refuse the post and maybe they will find a cappable chef, or to resignate of my post at the end of the season and trying to find a better place, and to be honest the first and the last solution are tempting me as much as the others.
Don't chance it. Make your own luck. If you go with the first solution, do so only if you're confident that you can cope with the foreseeable circumstances.
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Old 2012-03-08, 03:57   Link #9
Dhomochevsky
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: Germany
Age: 33
@ganbaru
This depends on how likely you are to become a chef somewhere else anytime soon.
It is usually easier to get a job in a position, if you have worked in that same position before somewhere else.
So taking the job as chef at your hotel for now, even if it's only for a short time, might open up the possibility to become a chef at a place you like better in the near future.

That is, if you want to become one.
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Old 2012-03-08, 05:14   Link #10
ganbaru
books-eater youkai
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Betweem wisdom and insanity
@ SaintessHeart, I don't have problem of this way witht he current staff, beside me , there's onlly 2 part-time and a dish-washer, it's a very small hotel ( and kitchen). There's a possibility of problems with each new staff than will be added to the brigade, but it's probably not a real issue.
@ TinyRedLeaf, Yes the succes of the hotel wouldn't be my resposibility, only the succes of the kitchen. But the kitchen is a big part of the hotel wich is why the owners do interfere as much as they do. I should probably thanking my luck than at least they aren't taking decission while drunk or trying to get the place bankcrupt only to buy ack their patner's shares, I have worked once on a place like that, and once is enough.
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Old 2012-03-08, 06:31   Link #11
SaintessHeart
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by ganbaru View Post
@ SaintessHeart, I don't have problem of this way witht he current staff, beside me , there's onlly 2 part-time and a dish-washer, it's a very small hotel ( and kitchen). There's a possibility of problems with each new staff than will be added to the brigade, but it's probably not a real issue.
@ TinyRedLeaf, Yes the succes of the hotel wouldn't be my resposibility, only the succes of the kitchen. But the kitchen is a big part of the hotel wich is why the owners do interfere as much as they do. I should probably thanking my luck than at least they aren't taking decission while drunk or trying to get the place bankcrupt only to buy ack their patner's shares, I have worked once on a place like that, and once is enough.
Looks like you have a pretty interesting issue at hand. I don't think you should have any problem to adapt to your new job work-wise, but keeping up with the pace of HR seems to be a huge problem.

Maybe you could take up experience for some time, then using that experience to jump ship in the future? Otherwise, you better start thinking about your personal and future prospect in another industry. Nonetheless, taking up some of those skills may help you tremendously in the future; someone told me recently that those with strong technical ability should take on jobs that requires alot of social and management skills when they are young, so they can build a bigger gun to fire in the future. Who knows, you might even open your own restaurant in the future.

When in doubt, you can always PM TRL for advice, I think he used to work at a job agency before so he should have pretty good knowledge about HRM.

Which part of the world are you in anyway? Canada or France? Sounds like English isn't your first language.
__________________

When three puppygirls named after pastries are on top of each other, it is called Eclair a'la menthe et Biscotti aux fraises avec beaucoup de Ricotta sur le dessus.
Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.
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Old 2012-03-08, 11:16   Link #12
Kyero Fox
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Join Date: Jul 2006
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I can't offer much advice, I'm just some grunt at a moble home park fixing crap, all I can say is I agree with Saintless.
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Old 2012-03-08, 12:00   Link #13
Paranoid Android
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
Which part of the world are you in anyway? Canada or France? Sounds like English isn't your first language.
I was gonna guess dyslexia from the more spelling mistakes than grammar/punctuation.

I don't have enough work experience to make solid statements but I will share my work experience and hopefully it may reinforce your own decision making.

First job:
Age 14 - Office work: filing papers, photocopying, emails. blah blah blah. part time job at a Structural Engineering firm. I was suggested by the accountant who works there.

Two weeks later, I learned AutoCAD on their computer and the boss reassigned me as a trainee for drafts person.

Age 15 - Worked as a computer technician with an older friend who runs his own stores.

Age 16 - I was reassigned again at the same structural company as an assistant structural engineer. Started working overtime and on weekends

Age 18 - Worked at Canadian National Exhibition, It's terrible labor, 6 days a week, 12 hours a day. I wanted it for the people skills and diversity.

Age 18 - Started studies at university for a major in Civil Engineering

Age 19 - Worked at a different engineering company as an unlicensed engineer (but no longer just an assistant)

Then my boss from the company I worked at since I was 14 and asked me to inherit his company when I graduate, he wants to retire.

I took up his offer and now I just gotta graduate while cramming as much business skills as possible.

-----
Throughout my teenage years, I get monthly phone calls from all my past employers. Some just casual, some are requests that I return to work. I left all of them with a positive and last impression. I personally dislike all my past employers. But sucking up, keeping my mouth shut and looking responsible of my work and irresponsible of every screw-up is the biggest thing. I think that employer who is passing his company on to me is being rash, but I made him very aware that I am working at other companies and that seems to greatly bother him and make him desperate in keeping me.

That should be the same for your career which is a small sized work force. If you have ambition for something more than what you have, taking on the burden of giving yourself more responsibility and enduring the stupidity of others.

Whenever there's a sign of conflict with someone in a position above mine, my immediate reaction is always surrender, and returning later on and proving them wrong.

The success of the entire hotel is your responsibility if you have that ambition. It doesn't matter what you're being paid for. You need to endure the bitching from your boss even if he/she's a total incompetent retard. You need to make known that you are the one that is satisfying all their unreasonable demands and the one carrying the place. You have predecessors who quit their job. That helps reinforce your importance as your employer would always prefer to use an existing employee than a new recruit.

Every time I am able to prove my employer or coworker wrong in an argument, I make an over-exaggerated deal out of it at how they will lose 6-7 digit value worth of wages and materials because of their calculative mistakes.

The far majority of employees do not do even consider taking on extra work load that will not be unpaid for because they think it's a total rip off. That's because they don't connect their current workplace and reality with how to achieve their goals.

Of course this isn't a concrete path. There's a lot of gambling. I make myself more than I am to employers and I fill that boasting with real skills -later on-. It's the same thing any employer does. Borrow money to pay for expenses and wages, earn it back later.

There's always the chance that you may screw up in some terrible way and not be able to ever use your current employer(s) as reference.

---
Side notes:
- None of my career-relevant job positions ever involved a resume. They all came from referencing my employer or simply saying "I'm worked with these guys".

You should really make your employers think highly of you.
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Old 2012-03-08, 12:33   Link #14
SaintessHeart
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Join Date: Nov 2007
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I don't think he is dyslexic, his grammar is A-OK and variable, not repetitive, his paragraphing is random, not highly restricted like mine, plus he has a good grasp of sentence construction. I am a late diagnosed dyslexic, so I think it is more likely that he is posting from a mobile device, and that he doesn't have English as his first language; the language in his signature gave away much that he is pretty fluent in French.

Also, if anyone wants to start a business, I would suggest that they read Donald Trump's books, the most important being The Art Of The Deal and Think Big And Kick Ass. I know he is a total buffoon and a dweeb, but his business advice is often echoed by a couple of dead old men I know running their own businesses.
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When three puppygirls named after pastries are on top of each other, it is called Eclair a'la menthe et Biscotti aux fraises avec beaucoup de Ricotta sur le dessus.
Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.
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Old 2012-03-08, 12:57   Link #15
ganbaru
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Betweem wisdom and insanity
Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
Which part of the world are you in anyway? Canada or France? Sounds like English isn't your first language.
Canada, or to be more precise, the province of Québec. Yes, french is my first language. I did learn a good deal of english at school but I did improve it by reading book.
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