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View Poll Results: Guilty Crown - Episode 20 Rating
Perfect 10 7 11.86%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 24 40.68%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 13 22.03%
7 out of 10 : Good 7 11.86%
6 out of 10 : Average 6 10.17%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 0 0%
4 out of 10 : Poor 1 1.69%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 1 1.69%
Voters: 59. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2012-03-09, 11:31   Link #61
DarkyPwnz
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I really think he should give the virus back in the memory of Hare and all the others died because he is an idiot.
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Old 2012-03-09, 11:57   Link #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DragoZERO View Post
That was a good episode. I am glad they cleared up the past now and left the last two episodes for the conclusion.

Pretty funny that Shu's dad got busy in the lab.

Haruka really went from HHNGGHH to HAWT. Kurosu was a lucky man, damn. I'm happy she's not Shu's real mom, haha.

I think the explanation of the stone and everything was great. My only objection was Yuu. He's like, just there. We get a little line that makes me think he's like Mana or something, but I don't care for it. I think it would have been better if he was one of those kids who was with Gai in the lab. We should have been left with very few questions so we can focus on the characters but they left this little hole. But, that's my only objection for this episode.

The end with his friends was good. Needed to show the hero's renewed resolve and he had to reconcile what he did. I think Souta could have been less of a jerk, but he was always an insecure guy, so yeah.

8/10, lost points for Yuu/Daath and explanation of what Inori is and all.

I have to agree with you on that. It's a little mysterious why they are doing all of this, especially Shuichirou (sp?). It was like he wanted to prevent it when he was researching but after killing Kurosu, he changed his mind. Strange.

I think the 22 episodes hurt them a little too. Given what they had, they didn't do that bad of a job.

That's a great parallel. I didn't even think of that. Totally Reed & Doom.

Gai and Keido's broader antagonist motivations are a bit hard to grasp, but their backstories are good, and I love how they tie in so comprehensively to the backstories of many major protagonists in this show.

I think her motivation is simple: sex with her brother to bring about the new world order.

It's really going to come down to the final two episodes. It may make or break the series.
As usually very nice break down DragoZero.

I still have not given my write up yet there are some things about the episode that are bugging me im going to do a 2nd view tonight.
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Old 2012-03-09, 13:58   Link #63
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I quite enjoyed the flashbacks as they did well to explain everything. But yeah like other’s having stated, there were something’s that were off.

The introduction of Daath still feels completely out of the blue as well as Yuu.

Gai’s address to the UN was pure cheese on a stick. What the fuck is the GHQ and how the hell is it so powerful? Is it really America? They’re too damn scared to make it outright explicit so they just hint at it? There are a lot of holes in its concept of international politics. It's far too Hollywood-ish...

I don’t understand why Keido just suddenly decided to shoot Kurosu. It makes no sense whatsoever. As others have stated, Gai and Keido’s acts don’t fit with what we’ve seen.

A lot of people don’t seem to like the Shu/Souta reconciliation but I really liked it. Some people are saying Souta was being jerk was I don’t think that was the case. He wasn’t pushing Shu away because he didn’t want to forgive Shu. He was pushing Shu away because he didn’t want Shu to forgive him. But I guess a lot of people are still mad at Souta because he apparently killed Hare (He didn’t really) and that he betrayed Shu (However, if my best friend suddenly decided to make me work like a slave and still leave me to the mercy of a very traumatising disease, I’d probably feel like killing him too).

At first I wondered why Shu wasn’t getting nearly as much attention in terms of admitting to his sins, but then I realised he didn’t need to. I think the loss of his arm was supposed to be interpreted as karmic retribution. It seems to me to be a pretty common trope in anime actually. Similar to Redemption Equals Death but not as severe.

My only problem now is that they’ve made Shu too good. In the last two episodes, I thought he was great. I sympathised with him and thought he was awesome when he got his powers back. But now it almost seems like he can do no wrong. Even though he was wrong about giving their voids back, he wasn’t wrong to ask first. And he doesn’t have any doubts about anything either.
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Old 2012-03-09, 14:31   Link #64
Jellal
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Quick question, is the anime get better?

I mean, I'm up till episode 5 so far and I'm still somewhat considering to "drop".
I've only been in it this far simply because of the cast of directors.

One being in Code Geass the other HSOTD.

Any input?
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Old 2012-03-09, 14:34   Link #65
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The history behind this whole mess was pretty interesting.
Mana is one scary girl...
It all started with Kurosu family.. will probably end like it too.
Shu & Souta reconciliation was touching.
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Old 2012-03-09, 14:51   Link #66
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I knew this episode would bring everything to light. I thought they pulled it off great and the reconcile at the end was a nice touch. Although they're trying to hard to cover up its religious roots, which are getting worse and worse due to their inconsistency.

So we learned that Yuu isn't actually relevant to the story in the slightest. He's merely a messenger for the demonic/alien order, whether they're aliens that created the hierarchy, or are actually spiritual doesn't really matter either since they both have the same agenda and are inspired by the same occult group. He also won't play a big role, he'll probably just leave at the end to report progress, or he'll die. We probably won't see the group make an appearance either.

I laughed when they tried to coverup his actual derived name. Shu may mean "group" in Japanese but in Egyptian Mythology it means "He who rises up". The name has Egyptian links that span up to the book of Exodus. It's also highly unlikely that they went for something so primal given his huge role. They can't really confirm that his name is based off an Egyptian god, now can they? It'll sound too weird.

The episode cleared most of the speculation they aroused throughout the inconclusive chronology, and cofirmed that Shu is indeed the reincarnation of Christ, or better yet Macroprosopos. This is definitely one of the better shows of 2012, and the ending is going to be big, but predictable.

Spoiler for very probable:
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Old 2012-03-09, 15:02   Link #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jellal View Post
Quick question, is the anime get better?

I mean, I'm up till episode 5 so far and I'm still somewhat considering to "drop".
I've only been in it this far simply because of the cast of directors.

One being in Code Geass the other HSOTD.

Any input?
Thats not really a questions that can be answered yes or no. Everyone has different taste in terms of what is good or bad. I find the story very indepth and actually requires you to do a little objective thinking and also allows you to see the darker side of human nature. Some viewers think the series sucks iv seen a hell of a lot worse than Guilty Crown. I feel its worth the watch but thats just me.
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Old 2012-03-09, 15:14   Link #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sinestra View Post
Thats not really a questions that can be answered yes or no. Everyone has different taste in terms of what is good or bad. I find the story very indepth and actually requires you to do a little objective thinking and also allows you to see the darker side of human nature. Some viewers think the series sucks iv seen a hell of a lot worse than Guilty Crown. I feel its worth the watch but thats just me.
From what I've seen, the tone of the story is very serious/melancholy.

Given what you've said about the story, I may as well give it a shot - it still has the element of surprise to it and I'll be sure to give it a chance. Relatively speaking, this anime has already got me off guard retaining to the fact in ep 5 - Gai literally ordered the pink girl to toy with his mind. That itself was shocking for me at least.

Anyway, it seems like I have something great to watch.
It was either this or Fate/Zero and I heard both of these anime are fantastic.
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Old 2012-03-09, 15:59   Link #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sinestra View Post
Thats not really a questions that can be answered yes or no. Everyone has different taste in terms of what is good or bad. I find the story very indepth and actually requires you to do a little objective thinking and also allows you to see the darker side of human nature. Some viewers think the series sucks iv seen a hell of a lot worse than Guilty Crown. I feel its worth the watch but thats just me.
I quite agree.


Quote:
Originally Posted by syke123 View Post
I laughed when they tried to coverup his actual derived name. Shu may mean "group" in Japanese but in Egyptian Mythology it means "He who rises up". The name has Egyptian links that span up to the book of Exodus. It's also highly unlikely that they went for something so primal given his huge role. They can't really confirm that his name is based off an Egyptian god, now can they? It'll sound too weird.
'Cover up'...? Symbolism to the characters in the show doesn't necessarily have to correlate to wider symbolism that the writers have put into it.



As for the motivations/goals of Keido (Shuuichirou) and Gai.

I'm pretty certain the former's is born out of jealousy - he's been working towards Daat's goal since around the time of Shuu's birth.

As for Gai - it hasn't changed the entire series. And yes, we've already been told outright what it is. By Gai himself, no less.
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Old 2012-03-09, 17:57   Link #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haak View Post
The introduction of Daath still feels completely out of the blue as well as Yuu.
I really like Guilty Crown overall, and find it impressively ambitious, but it's important to remember that it's still a big budget anime with lots of anime conventions in it.

Yuu is the mysterious, vaguely nefarious, shouta. That's a fairly common character archetype in action-packed anime shows, I find.

He's kind of like the blond, petite, ojousama over in Rinne no Lagrange; he's there since "It's anime, dude!"

Yeah, it's weird, but there are certain character types that anime shows just love to have for some reason (also kinda like maids, even when maids seem totally out of place with just about everything else in the show).


Quote:
Gai’s address to the UN was pure cheese on a stick. What the fuck is the GHQ and how the hell is it so powerful? Is it really America? They’re too damn scared to make it outright explicit so they just hint at it? There are a lot of holes in its concept of international politics. It's far too Hollywood-ish...
Gai has an array of orbital death rays (i.e. Leukocytes) surrounding the planet, under his control. The guy also has powerful Void abilities. That alone gives his threats much added "Oomph!" in my opinion. You only need a decently sized/armed military beyond that to make you somebody that the UN would want to take deathly seriously.

The international politics of this show is messy, but I have no problems with Gai's current standing.


Quote:

I don’t understand why Keido just suddenly decided to shoot Kurosu. It makes no sense whatsoever.
Really? I thought it was pretty clear that Keido killed him out of pure jealousy. In fact, that's a big part of the reason why I compared Keido-Kurosu to Doom-Richards of Fantastic Four fame.

In the Fantastic Four comics, the main reason Doom wants to kill Richards is simple jealousy. Doom can't accept that there's a scientist out there that's quite possibly smarter than he is. Keido likewise can't accept that with Kurosu. It wounds his ego too much. So Keido killed him.

Is it extreme? Definitely, but it's fairly common in popular fiction.


Quote:
As others have stated, Gai and Keido’s acts don’t fit with what we’ve seen.
With Gai, what I find hard to square with his current actions is why he was doing what he was doing back during the first half of the anime. I still haven't quite figured that out.


With Gai and Keido, I think that their overall goals are kind of crazy, which is odd since they both seem reasonably sane. But hey, maybe they just mask their madness well.


Quote:
A lot of people don’t seem to like the Shu/Souta reconciliation but I really liked it. Some people are saying Souta was being jerk was I don’t think that was the case. He wasn’t pushing Shu away because he didn’t want to forgive Shu. He was pushing Shu away because he didn’t want Shu to forgive him. But I guess a lot of people are still mad at Souta because he apparently killed Hare (He didn’t really) and that he betrayed Shu (However, if my best friend suddenly decided to make me work like a slave and still leave me to the mercy of a very traumatising disease, I’d probably feel like killing him too).
I still view Souta's reckless foolishness as the main reason Hare died, but I don't hold Souta's betrayal of Shu against him. Like you wrote, Souta had perfectly good motivations for turning on Shu.

I don't much like Souta, but I don't have any great desire to see him die. The real douchebags of the coup against Shu already "got their's" at the hands of Gai.


Quote:
At first I wondered why Shu wasn’t getting nearly as much attention in terms of admitting to his sins, but then I realised he didn’t need to. I think the loss of his arm was supposed to be interpreted as karmic retribution. It seems to me to be a pretty common trope in anime actually. Similar to Redemption Equals Death but not as severe.
Good point.


Quote:

My only problem now is that they’ve made Shu too good. In the last two episodes, I thought he was great. I sympathised with him and thought he was awesome when he got his powers back. But now it almost seems like he can do no wrong. Even though he was wrong about giving their voids back, he wasn’t wrong to ask first. And he doesn’t have any doubts about anything either.
Shu spent most of the anime being wishy-washy. That was a big character flaw for him. It only seems natural to me that the completion of his "coming of age" character arc would involve him becoming more decisive and resolute in his decisions. A man not carried by the winds of change and the whims of stronger personalities, but rather a man of firm convictions who knows who/what he values and what he's going to do to protect that.

I like this about Shu now. It's time for him to not have many doubts any more, imo.

If you look at the major protagonists of similarly "larger than life" anime storylines (Madoka Magica, Steins;Gate, Mawaru Penguin Drum, etc...) they also put aside all their doubts going into the "Last Act" of the anime. This is just tried, tested, and true storytelling, imo. And in Shu's case, it's definitely helpful, imo.
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Old 2012-03-09, 18:05   Link #71
DragoZERO
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sinestra View Post
As usually very nice break down DragoZero.

I still have not given my write up yet there are some things about the episode that are bugging me im going to do a 2nd view tonight.
Good to know my posts are read.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Haak View Post
I quite enjoyed the flashbacks as they did well to explain everything. But yeah like other’s having stated, there were something’s that were off.

The introduction of Daath still feels completely out of the blue as well as Yuu.

Gai’s address to the UN was pure cheese on a stick. What the fuck is the GHQ and how the hell is it so powerful? Is it really America? They’re too damn scared to make it outright explicit so they just hint at it? There are a lot of holes in its concept of international politics. It's far too Hollywood-ish...
They're powerful because they have satellites that can wipe out cities.

Quote:
I don’t understand why Keido just suddenly decided to shoot Kurosu. It makes no sense whatsoever. As others have stated, Gai and Keido’s acts don’t fit with what we’ve seen.
I think he just snapped. The better question is... what's a scientist doing with a gun? He was up to no good before he even stepped in there, so it isn't out of the realm of possibility that he'd shoot someone. And since it was in the heat of the moment it was a crime of passion, not pre-meditated, so he wasn't thinking properly. Am I stretching too much? I hope not, haha.

Quote:
At first I wondered why Shu wasn’t getting nearly as much attention in terms of admitting to his sins, but then I realised he didn’t need to. I think the loss of his arm was supposed to be interpreted as karmic retribution. It seems to me to be a pretty common trope in anime actually. Similar to Redemption Equals Death but not as severe.
Well, he lost his friends, his arm, then his girl. Karma's a bitch and it taught him his lesson.

Quote:
My only problem now is that they’ve made Shu too good. In the last two episodes, I thought he was great. I sympathised with him and thought he was awesome when he got his powers back. But now it almost seems like he can do no wrong. Even though he was wrong about giving their voids back, he wasn’t wrong to ask first. And he doesn’t have any doubts about anything either.
It's because the hero has returned! He is the Master of Two Worlds now and has the Freedom to Live. Yes, it's the last episode of Monomyth Time with Drago! We are nearing the end of our journey. Our dear writer likes the monomyth and has implemented it pretty well, minus the overly extended Refusal of the Call. Shu is now a hero worthy of the title and it's time to save the girl and save the world. I leave everyone with a nice image with explanations for each step:
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Old 2012-03-09, 18:34   Link #72
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'Cover up'...?
(cover-up, cover up, coverup) All three can be defined correct, although I wouldn't use the word on a paper.

Quote:
Originally Posted by karice67 View Post
Symbolism to the characters in the show doesn't necessarily have to correlate to wider symbolism that the writers have put into it.
That may be the case for most but I don't agree with the two controversial mains, the names Mana and Shu raise a lot of suspicion. And the constant Hebrew references are another, perhaps you can't prove the relation between them, but you can notice the traits they incorporate from them. Obviously that isn't enough to assume, but if not then what is?
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Old 2012-03-09, 19:12   Link #73
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I'm a little confused. Is Daath trying bring the Apocalypse or stop it? And why did they help Keido find another mate for Mana when she already chosen Shu?
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Old 2012-03-09, 19:18   Link #74
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Old 2012-03-09, 19:37   Link #75
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I'm a little confused. Is Daath trying bring the Apocalypse or stop it? And why did they help Keido find another mate for Mana when she already chosen Shu?
He kinda didn't like the fact that whole human evolution is circling around Kurosu. Finding and working on the project, and then his kids being adam and eve. So he wanted to be a part of human evolution, you know all of that genius prick ego and such.

As for people asking why he kill kurosu. Simple his journal had all the info dude was working on, so he offed kurosu and take journal to post it as his own experiment work. Win win for him especially that Kurosu rubbed him bad way with all of his achievements.



For Mana I'm more than sure she will off Triton as soon as the occasion will come.
Just wonder if crazy eyes will play some major role in anime or are just there for crazy eyes factor.
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Old 2012-03-09, 19:46   Link #76
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I'm curious to know why so many people seem convinced that Mana is going to turn on Gai, and try to get with Shu again.

Maybe my memory is a bit fuzzy, but didn't Mana try to kill Shu back in Episode 12?


I wouldn't be shocked if Mana turned on Gai and tried to get with Shu again, but given what she was like the last time her and Shu shared a scene together, I'm curious to know why people expect Mana to turn on Gai and try to get with Shu again.
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Old 2012-03-09, 20:11   Link #77
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You mean the crystal attack that was aimed at Shu? I don't think those will kill Shu but rather merge him with her.
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Old 2012-03-09, 20:16   Link #78
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I wouldn't be shocked if Mana turned on Gai and tried to get with Shu again, but given what she was like the last time her and Shu shared a scene together, I'm curious to know why people expect Mana to turn on Gai and try to get with Shu again.
The wincest element, perhaps?

I think Gai might turn good again for some stupid reason and turn on Mana. That would be trite though... get it, trite?
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Old 2012-03-09, 20:19   Link #79
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Jeez, Mana takes cradle-robbing to a whole other level.
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Old 2012-03-09, 20:27   Link #80
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Actually if anything I think Yuu shrinked, lol.
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