What (and Who) is a Tsundere?

[Ithekro]

Haruhi is Haruhi. (All Hail the God Empress)

Though when they get around to the Valentine's Day section the tsundere might show a little more. She's not quite the typical kind, nor the exaggerated kind that has been used a lot of late. Not even as fun as Kagami's level of tsundere.

But then, Kyon is also classed as tsundere towards Haruhi...so go figure.

[Triple_R]

It's interesting to read over my posts on this thread from two to three years ago, as it shows me how I've mellowed a bit on this issue.

I'm still not entirely comfortable with Monogatari's Hitagi being labelled as a tsundere, but I'm more comfortable with it now than I was two years ago.


I think that a lot of it comes down to whether or not you think that Kuuderes and/or Yanderes should be considered their own unique character types, or simply a subset of "Tsundere" (to me, Hitagi is definitely a kuudere). It's a difficult question, because I do know some characters that overlap between two or more of these different types of xxxdere character types, so having a catch-all term for all of those xxxdere character types would be convenient.

On the other hand, tsunderes are actually the complete opposite of kuuderes in some ways (kuuderes are known for coming across as "Always in Control" while one of the definitive elements of tsunderes is that they often lose control of their emotions) so it also seems a bit odd for them to share the same character archetype heading.


As for Haruhi, I've also softened a bit on her being called "tsundere". I think it's fair to call her a genki girl tsundere. I don't mind people calling her a tsundere as long as we don't lose sight of her genki girl side in the process. Haruhi combines those two archetypes pretty well I think.

[Dr. Casey]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

I think that a lot of it comes down to whether or not you think that Kuuderes and/or Yanderes should be considered their own unique character types, or simply a subset of "Tsundere" (to me, Hitagi is definitely a kuudere).

I definitely prefer them being three separate terms, in part because that gives me several different -dere pages to read at TVTropes (sry I'm a TVTropes addict), but also because they're all rather distinct character types; there's often some degree of overlap because tsundere and kuudere, granted, but tsundere and yandere are certainly very different entities. You can be a little crazy when in love without having any amount of tsun in your personality otherwise.

[Vexx]

Time Warp, Mr. Peabody!!

Interestingly, the various orbital definitions haven't changed much...

[Kirarakim]

I was reading through this post and didn't even realize at first that the earliest posts were from 2009 (dumb moment)

But anyways, I noticed a lot of people said "love interest" was a requirement for a tsundere. But is that actually true, can't the character type display the traits in a non-romantic way, such as in the terms of friendship?

Also does the Tsundere always have to have hidden feelings or can the feelings grow over time?

[Azuma Denton]

A re-vamped thread...

Today, i happened to stumbled upon one article my friend gave me...
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news...sundere-Appeal

[0utf0xZer0]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

It's interesting to read over my posts on this thread from two to three years ago, as it shows me how I've mellowed a bit on this issue.

I'm still not entirely comfortable with Monogatari's Hitagi being labelled as a tsundere, but I'm more comfortable with it now than I was two years ago.


I think that a lot of it comes down to whether or not you think that Kuuderes and/or Yanderes should be considered their own unique character types, or simply a subset of "Tsundere" (to me, Hitagi is definitely a kuudere). It's a difficult question, because I do know some characters that overlap between two or more of these different types of xxxdere character types, so having a catch-all term for all of those xxxdere character types would be convenient.

I'd classify Hitagi as a tsundere simply based on the results of the "hostile (tsundere) v. distant (kuudere)" test. Hitagi is aggressive and verbally abusive towards Araragi even in relatively intimate moments, probably stepping from difficulties with unguarded intimacy. It way goes beyond a mere cold shoulder.

Alternatively, I suppose one could look at the inner essence of the character and say she's more aloof (kuu) than irritable (tsun) but I prefer to use behaviour as my benchmark.

Also, given that Sakaki from Azumanga Diaoh is often referred to as a kuudere, I have to wonder if the term originally included a cold shoulder approach or if that's the result of later expansion of the term's meaning.

Originally Posted by Triple_R

On the other hand, tsunderes are actually the complete opposite of kuuderes in some ways (kuuderes are known for coming across as "Always in Control" while one of the definitive elements of tsunderes is that they often lose control of their emotions) so it also seems a bit odd for them to share the same character archetype heading.

TVtropes seems to stress the "in control" element, however I'm not prone to taking them as an authority on these things (I feel their article on moe is far too narrow in scope, for example) and I tend to see that as an associated trait and not an identifying one.

Originally Posted by Triple_R

As for Haruhi, I've also softened a bit on her being called "tsundere". I think it's fair to call her a genki girl tsundere. I don't mind people calling her a tsundere as long as we don't lose sight of her genki girl side in the process. Haruhi combines those two archetypes pretty well I think.

Haruhi is a (somewhat sociopathic) genki girl who can be a bit tsundere on the side IMO. It's not that she's not a tsundere, it's that its not the core of her character.

[Vexx]

Its probably a mistake to worry tooo much about classifying *any* of the SHnY characters as they are each and all subversions of their superficial archetypes. The series contained intentional satire of various memes in the field.

[Darthtabby]

Originally Posted by Darknemo2000

There is common misconseption about tsunderes that they have troubles showing their affection.

It is not true.

While most of nowadays tsunderes are build following this mold the veryu first historic tsundere - Lum was proclaiming her love to the main guy (her darling) almost on every episode/chapter. Yet she was still the first tsundere.

So all in all, it is only contemporary tendency that tsundere has troubles expressing her feelings but in reality tsundere can be easily declaring her love and affection, she just needs to act bipolar towards her love interest.

Doesn't Lum actually predate the term tsundere by quite a bit? Was she really the first tsundere character or is she just a character that people retroactively (and perhaps inappropriately) termed a tsundere?

(Note: I can't actually speak with authority on Urusei Yatsura since I haven't actually watched it. I'm going by things I've picked up from various sources.)

If the character merely needs to get angry at someone they like, how do we prevent the term from becoming too broad, especially if we allow for a character to be tsundere towards people who are not his or her love interest? "Gets angry at people they actually like" can cover a pretty broad group of characters.

[Irenicus]

Whether she fits some sort of tsundere definition or not, I can say with authority [...of having read it before] that she isn't at all like the modern tsunderes.

Spoilers

Spoiler for Lum's character

Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

[Kirarakim]

Speaking of 80's classic Tsundere's I think Takahashi's Kyoko in Maison Ikkoku, portrays some of the traits as well.

Actually I think Takahashi just liked the trope in general.

[judasmartel]

Hmm... Sounds like an interesting topic. Okay, I'll comment on this.

Well, I agree that some people hate tsunderes because, well, they're portrayed as such kind of bitches. I for one, however, hate tsunderes a bit because they almost always win the guy in every romance battle ever.

That, or probably because I just feel so bad that my favorite type of girls in anime, the Shrinking Violet, almost always get the short end of the stick. But of course, there are exceptions where the SV DOES win the guy.

Spoiler for OT:

Somehow, I was reminded of the story of a man who had three wives, and after he was accused of sacrilege, only the virgin wife (the SV) stayed with him in the end.

I actually find Type B Tsunderes (more Dere than Tsun) more realistic than say, Type A's (more Tsun than Dere) the Dandere or the Shrinking Violet, at least in my country. Think about it, you must know some girls who are nice to everyone except some guy you will later discover she actually likes. This developed a belief that a girl likes you if she's mad at you like, all the freaking time.

Now, one would say, "Oh, every woman in the world is a tsundere, so what gives?" I don't really buy that statement because we know that not everyone is tsundere towards the person they like. But somehow, they seem to be predictable if one knows how to handle them. Thus, the reasoning behind it.

The difference however is that some people in my country tend to be tsundere around the person they like, but turn Yandere after they win them.