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Old 2012-03-11, 21:46   Link #121
Sabaku Kyu
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Originally Posted by Hunter View Post
Since as a reader you're talking in my name I'm going to call bullshit on that.
Nagato had already murdered Jiraiya, Kakashi, Shizune, hundreds of others and leveled Konoha to the ground. Adding Hinata to the list changed nothing, litteraly nothing since Naruto's decision would have been vindicated anyway with Nagato reviving everybody.
No, Kishimoto just won't really kill one of the kids. Chouji, Neji and Gaara had more than proven that already and Hinata was the final nail in the (absent of) coffin.
Gaara did at least actually die if I remember right. But he was revived so quickly and easily he might as well been napping. If Hinata had died, it would've been similar to Gaara's rezzing...no harm, no foul. As to why Kishi actually avoided doing that, well he shys away from killing kids/teens yes, but I still say there might've been pacing issues.

Seems he's obligated to add a tearjerker scene when we're supposed to believe a major character is dead forreals. Kakashi got the touching but pointless scene with his father even though he was revived just a few issues later. Doing something like that for Hinata when the final showdown between Naruto and Pein was happening would've been really distracting. Especially on the heels of Kakashi's flashback. Quicker to just have Sakura announce that Hinata survived and move on.
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Old 2012-03-12, 10:13   Link #122
TimeMask
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Originally Posted by Super_Gilby View Post
O.o if Jiraiya for some reason comes back I think he would be used for Naruto. Even if he was used against Sasuke and Itachi he would be dispatched in 5 seconds. I think Kabuto will either summon Madara to fight against Itachi and Sasuke or we are about to see a 3 way fight between them with Itachi trying to get Kabuto to get rid of the zombies including himself. Sasuke trying to kill Kabuto and stop Itachi from destroying himself and Kabuto I guess trying to kill Sasuke.
Kabuto has planned ahead so he probably will have other strong edo's with him for protection so he doesn't get beaten too easily:

Spoiler for Jiraiya and Mito:


The pic above also shows Mito the 1st hokage's wife and she was a jinchuuriki so she must be strong and if Kabuto has edo's like her then Kabuto can give Sasuke and Itachi a good fight.

I think Kabuto plans to capture Sasuke maybe so he can do what Oro couldn't do.
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Old 2012-03-12, 12:14   Link #123
Eragon
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^ I think Kishi should not use that 'using sasuke' thing anymore. It's already got too tiring seeing Oro obssesed over him.
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Old 2012-03-12, 12:14   Link #124
itachi-san314
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Originally Posted by TimeMask View Post
Kabuto has planned ahead so he probably will have other strong edo's with him for protection so he doesn't get beaten too easily:

Spoiler for Jiraiya and Mito:


The pic above also shows Mito the 1st hokage's wife and she was a jinchuuriki so she must be strong and if Kabuto has edo's like her then Kabuto can give Sasuke and Itachi a good fight.

I think Kabuto plans to capture Sasuke maybe so he can do what Oro couldn't do.
well keep in mind though that kabuto prefers to use psychological attacks with these edo-tenseis. neither of those characters would have much of an effect on itachi or sasuke both mentally or physically. I think Shisui or their father would be good, but I don't really think that this is the tactic kabuto will use. lot's of people are assuming that kabuto can't fight for himself. a long time ago when he fought tsunade he was pretty good, and now he is extremely enhanced. I think he will have a ton of techs to throw at the brothers. he could also summon madara back if need be. I think that the ET portion of the war is about done though. there aren't many dead ninjas who could rival sasuke and itachi anyway unless kabuto went so far back to the RS or his sons of course.
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Old 2012-03-12, 13:18   Link #125
23 gundam fan
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Originally Posted by itachi-san314 View Post
Well, I felt the same as Hunter. During the time of naruto's one on one with nagato I really wasn't relieved by hinata being alive. I was still worried about kakashi being dead and hoping he would be revived. I'm sticking to my point that kakashi meant a whole lot more to naruto than hinata so her being dead too wouldn't change his mind at that time to talk to nagato and try to understand where he was coming from. like hunter also said, there were many other dead too and the village was leveled, hinata just isn't that important of a character to the readers or to naruto to alter naruto's will at that time after he had regained control.

no. her job is not to die meaninglessly when there are ninjas of konoha who could still fight. the leader of any organization must stay alive at all cost unless there is no other option. calling naruto a genin (while true) is just silly by your implication here. he was literally the strongest ninja of konoha, it doesn't matter what his rank is. tsunade as an experienced fighter would recognize this in his disposition, not to mention that naruto had the backing of the entire frog village who also trained and stood by jiraiya who you speak so highly of. the frogs knew that jiraiya lost to pain because they were there... so they wouldn't stick with naruto in the fight if they didn't think he had surpassed jiraiya and had a chance of beating pain
i dont get you. everyone knew pain was way to much for the ninja(chunin and jonin) to deal with. i mean kakashi died fighting him for gods sake. as soon as that happen .you could say it was tsunada fight to win. if your whole village and ninja are getting pounded, then it was on the hokage at that point to deal with it. it is no different that when the nine tails attacked. while the ninja did go to do what they could. the 4th knew this was exactly what the hokage is supposed to do. it was obvious that pain was a ninja of ungodly power, no jonins level ninja were going to stop him. there was no other choice. as far as naruto saving the day do you think someone like the raikaga would be ok with a genin(sage or not) doing the job against a ninja the likes of pain and the hokage not really defeating him. the hokages of the past are mostly praised and remembered for there battles against ungodly ninja. ask yourself why is that. because to stand against a enemy yourself is the truest way of earning lifelong praise. the fact is what tsunada did while good is never going to be spoken in the same sense of praise that the 1st(fight with madara)3th(vs orch) of 4th(vs the nine tails) is. who out there thinks i am wrong on this.
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Old 2012-03-12, 13:33   Link #126
itachi-san314
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Originally Posted by 23 gundam fan View Post
i dont get you. everyone knew pain was way to much for the ninja(chunin and jonin) to deal with. i mean kakashi died fighting him for gods sake. as soon as that happen .you could say it was tsunada fight to win. if your whole village and ninja are getting pounded, then it was on the hokage at that point to deal with it. it is no different that when the nine tails attacked. while the ninja did go to do what they could. the 4th knew this was exactly what the hokage is supposed to do. it was obvious that pain was a ninja of ungodly power, no jonins level ninja were going to stop him. there was no other choice. as far as naruto saving the day do you think someone like the raikaga would be ok with a genin(sage or not) doing the job against a ninja the likes of pain and the hokage not really defeating him. the hokages of the past are mostly praised and remembered for there battles against ungodly ninja. ask yourself why is that. because to stand against a enemy yourself is the truest way of earning lifelong praise. the fact is what tsunada did while good is never going to be spoken in the same sense of praise that the 1st(fight with madara)3th(vs orch) of 4th(vs the nine tails) is. who out there thinks i am wrong on this.
tsunade did go out to fight nagato when there was no other choice. end of story

raikage was ok with a 'genin' fighting for him. remember when he tested KM naruto and then let him go enter the war?

your point about naruto being genin is silly. he's one of, if not the strongest, ninja on the alliance force
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Old 2012-03-13, 03:38   Link #127
solidguy
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Originally Posted by ronin myael View Post
at least he can use mokuton. tsunade couldn't and she's a direct descendant.
Exactly. Mokuton seems to be the deciding factor what made Harashima so godlike.
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Old 2012-03-13, 09:21   Link #128
itachi-san314
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Originally Posted by solidguy View Post
Exactly. Mokuton seems to be the deciding factor what made Harashima so godlike.
it's more than that. if that were true then yamato would be 'god-like'. hashirama apparently had instant regeneration according to recent words of madara. he also could tame the bijou as his pets. his chakra must have been some of the most powerful we have seen or heard of similar to the RS's younger son.
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Old 2012-03-13, 09:23   Link #129
Blaster
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Originally Posted by itachi-san314 View Post
well keep in mind though that kabuto prefers to use psychological attacks with these edo-tenseis. neither of those characters would have much of an effect on itachi or sasuke both mentally or physically. I think Shisui or their father would be good, but I don't really think that this is the tactic kabuto will use. lot's of people are assuming that kabuto can't fight for himself. a long time ago when he fought tsunade he was pretty good, and now he is extremely enhanced. I think he will have a ton of techs to throw at the brothers. he could also summon madara back if need be. I think that the ET portion of the war is about done though. there aren't many dead ninjas who could rival sasuke and itachi anyway unless kabuto went so far back to the RS or his sons of course.
Don't worry, should there be any ninja that can rival Sasuke at present, he can upgrade Sasuke's Sharingan to a Rinnegan.
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Old 2012-03-13, 12:14   Link #130
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Originally Posted by Blaster View Post
Don't worry, should there be any ninja that can rival Sasuke at present, he can upgrade Sasuke's Sharingan to a Rinnegan.
Is this really a sarcastic comment concealing a complaint about Sasuke's possible upgrade, in light of what Naruto has been doing the past dozen chapters?
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Old 2012-03-13, 13:20   Link #131
itachi-san314
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Originally Posted by Artful Dodger View Post
Is this really a sarcastic comment concealing a complaint about Sasuke's possible upgrade, in light of what Naruto has been doing the past dozen chapters?
lol that's how I took it. I wouldn't complain about it though, since sasuke gaining rinnegan is an inevitability. the only question is when he will gain it: before, during or after his inevitable fight with naruto?
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Old 2012-03-13, 13:24   Link #132
23 gundam fan
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Originally Posted by itachi-san314 View Post
tsunade did go out to fight nagato when there was no other choice. end of story

raikage was ok with a 'genin' fighting for him. remember when he tested KM naruto and then let him go enter the war?

your point about naruto being genin is silly. he's one of, if not the strongest, ninja on the alliance force
what you seem to be ignoring is the fact that tsunada did NOT ACUTALLY FIGHT PAIN. thus she will not have that battle under her belt or praise for it. her wanting to go out there is fine but kish did not give her that battle. about naruto at the time the kagas may not have known about naruto power. to them a genin beat pain thats about all they knew. at the point during the kaga summit remember the raikaga had not yet become a yes man to naruto talk no justsu yet. my pov is based on what actually happen, not what was about too or what would have. that is what i am baseing tsunada on. if you look at things in a what was about too happen light you can justifed anyones action to a degree. whats the old saying actions speak louder than words. its not what you are about too do speak louder than words.
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Old 2012-03-13, 13:39   Link #133
itachi-san314
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Originally Posted by 23 gundam fan View Post
if your whole village and ninja are getting pounded, then it was on the hokage at that point to deal with it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 23 gundam fan View Post
what you seem to be ignoring is the fact that tsunada did NOT ACUTALLY FIGHT PAIN. thus she will not have that battle under her belt or praise for it. her wanting to go out there is fine but kish did not give her that battle.
im not ignoring anything. i never said she fought him... i said she prepared to and went out there to do that exact thing. your quote above is what is wrong in your point. she did exactly what you wanted/expected a hokage to do. she had no idea naruto was going to interrupt her and fight for her. she was prepared to die protecting the village adn fight pain one on one

Quote:
about naruto at the time the kagas may not have known about naruto power. to them a genin beat pain thats about all they knew. at the point during the kaga summit remember the raikaga had not yet become a yes man to naruto talk no justsu yet. my pov is based on what actually happen, not what was about too or what would have. that is what i am baseing tsunada on. if you look at things in a what was about too happen light you can justifed anyones action to a degree. whats the old saying actions speak louder than words. its not what you are about too do speak louder than words.
you asked a hypothetical question: "do you think someone like the raikaga would be ok with a genin(sage or not) doing the job against a ninja the likes of pain"

to which i gave an answer based on the actual story. after testing naruto, the raikage was indeed satisfied to have him leave and fight for him against enemies like pain. the timeline is irrelevant in this case since at the time of pain's battle we barely knew the raikage anyway. you're basing your opinion on his character based on events that happened later than the naruto v pain fight and then apparently asking me to go back in time and predict what the raikage would do before we even knew much about his personality. as gruff and stubborn as he is, he's not stupid or unmovable. naruto is the type of character who can change someone like that's mind, which he did
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Old 2012-03-13, 15:39   Link #134
Takashipl
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At one point, the manga was all about "new generation surpassing the old". Now we see something entirely opposite - it seems that "old generation" was godlike when compared to current... What the hell happened?
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Old 2012-03-13, 15:43   Link #135
Kafriel
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That old generation was about three generations older than the old generation, that's what Fear not, the theme will return, but the old-gen must be hyped beforehand.
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Old 2012-03-13, 16:23   Link #136
itachi-san314
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That old generation was about three generations older than the old generation, that's what Fear not, the theme will return, but the old-gen must be hyped beforehand.
yep. also, kishi had to explain that the So6P was incredibly strong and started the ninja world. therefore future generations couldn't have kept surpassing him if he was the one who made ninjutsu, the moon and split the juubi. basically its like a parabola now with the RS at the first point and Naruto and Sasuke at the last point which will eventually rise above the first point. of course it's not a perfect arc since ninja vary in power but the average of each generation may produce a fairly smooth curve. either way the end points are and will be like that when the manga finishes. takashipl is right about the thematic change though. it used to be every generation outdid the previous one. now it's more broad
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Old 2012-03-13, 17:46   Link #137
Obelisk ze Tormentor
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Guys, I just remember something. When Kakuzu was defeated (or before it), wasn’t he said something like “I’ve fought the first Hokage and survive” or “I’ve fought the first Hokage equally”. If that’s true, it would be totally ridiculous. Does anybody remember what Kakuzu actually said regarding Hashirama? I don’t have that chapter with me.
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Old 2012-03-13, 18:02   Link #138
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Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor View Post
Guys, I just remember something. When Kakuzu was defeated (or before it), wasn’t he said something like “I’ve fought the first Hokage and survive” or “I’ve fought the first Hokage equally”. If that’s true, it would be totally ridiculous. Does anybody remember what Kakuzu actually said regarding Hashirama? I don’t have that chapter with me.
He said he fought against the 1st. It means he is quite strong and also that he is very old now, nothing else. Just because he survived in some fighting in the past doesn't mean he was ever as strong as the 1st. A battle doesn't have to end with someone dying, and doesn't have to be a 1on1 battle, ususally ninja fight in teams. A timeskip from now Tsunade can say she did fight against Edo-Madara, or Gai can say he did fight against Tobi+6tailed beasts, that doesn't mean they are equally strong
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Old 2012-03-13, 18:06   Link #139
Sabaku Kyu
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Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor View Post
Guys, I just remember something. When Kakuzu was defeated (or before it), wasn’t he said something like “I’ve fought the first Hokage and survive” or “I’ve fought the first Hokage equally”. If that’s true, it would be totally ridiculous. Does anybody remember what Kakuzu actually said regarding Hashirama? I don’t have that chapter with me.
Kakuzu only says he fought against Shodaime. He doesn't say anything about how he actually fared against him. Him surviving isn't too unbelievable. Considering how compassionate the Hokages are, his life could've been spared.

Though it did kinda seemed like a boast, implying that he was able to fight on Hashirama's level.
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Old 2012-03-13, 22:08   Link #140
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I wouldn't think on it too much. Madara and the First have grown in power since chapter 1 - remember how the Third was the "god of shinobi" and the "strongest Hokage?" Remember how Suiryuudan was the omfgwtfbbq of jutsu?
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