AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Related Topics > Manga & Light Novels

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2012-03-12, 15:24   Link #8361
Roger Rambo
Sensei, aishite imasu
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Hong Kong Shatterdome
Quote:
Originally Posted by Von Himmel View Post
So he did gave hints for Hakase's epilogue I thought it was pretty random
Perhaps not as overtly as with the twins (since we had the photo album dug up featuring the twins with the *studs*).

Perhaps she'd have noticed something about Satomi if she'd looked more into the orbital elevator?
Roger Rambo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-03-12, 15:47   Link #8362
TnAdct1
Honya-kun
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Clinton, Maryland
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurush View Post
I got no comment on how it ended. You all made that in ways I couldn't. Just disappointed in that the flotilla of Nodoka shipping got nuked.
That's only if you consider the last two chapters as canon, which will probably not be the case for a number of readers (heck, expect some fan discontinuity when it comes to the last two volumes of Negima). :P
__________________
TnAdct1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-03-12, 16:01   Link #8363
Klashikari
Swords•Maidens Maniac
*Graphic Designer
*Moderator
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Europe, Belgium, Brussels
Age: 27
Send a message via Skype™ to Klashikari
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiresias View Post
I will, however, at least explain why I think the later chapters suffered from bad writing.
You really didn't get the point I made across: I never stated the last chapters were "good" or anything (save the mood/touch of the last 2). What I do not agree though is your claim that Akamatsu became a bad writer, despite the whole problem with the recent chapters was so brutal that "simple bad writing" is something I hardly can imagine with Akamatsu.
I don't imply that he has made no mistakes so far, however, the brutal shift by the end of MM arc is, to me, a glaring proof that Akamatsu could not continue what he had planned, despite the biggets chunk of MM arc had a similar pacing than the other major arcs, albeit longer due to obvious reasons.

To me, bad writing would be an -extended- period of time where you have contradicting or nosense elements being thrown in the main plot, spiraling into the main story being hardly making sense by its own standards. You may think the sport festival is within such criteria, but I don't think so: surely, it sidetracked the main plot, however it didn't affect the main story, past shortening the amount of available chapters.

I really dislike the off screen stuff as much as anyone do, but frankly, suddenly bashing the author and the series -as a whole- is a bit too much, but that's just an opinion among many.
Quote:
It doesn't need another hundred chapters. He could have resolved the whole Nagi thing back at the Mundus Magicus Arc. Instead, we merely get yet another mystery surrounding his disappearance which never got resolved on-screen.
I really doubt he could, otherwise it would be a nearly bogus plot device to suddenly "cure" Nagi from his predicament. Clues were present and obviously indicated quite well that Nagi was really in a very bad situation, so I trust Akamatsu did plan Nagi to be entangled by the Lifemaker (to the point it required Negi's team, including Eva, Setsuna and Konoka for the last push, as implied by the last chapter).

I don't think the off screen was a solution, yet I don't believe the situation could be solved "with few chapters" only, considering how Akamatsu was crafting the issue surrounding Nagi for a huge number of chapters, prior and during MM arc.

Frankly, I really believe that Kodansha was pressuring him to shorten MM arc, considering the pretty variable amount of fanservice in MM arc, which is quite weird if you consider how Akamatsu wrote the previous major arcs.
Simply speaking (and call it naive or whatever), Akamatsu wanted to wrap things by the end of his contrast with Kodansha, but even while the contract is about to end, Kodansha made sure Akamatsu doesn't go against the said criteria they have apposed for Negima.
Quote:
If he knew the contract was going to end, why bother adding more hints and mysteries?! Start resolving them already!
Because it would simply goes against what he had in mind for LM/Nagi? Look, I don't think it was the best situation in the end, but from a narrative perspective, there would be very little plausible explanation to add Nagi -without- being assimilated by LM, without adding some bogus things like "well, I was sealed, lol!" or "I was hiding myself, teehee!".
There were various onimous stuff regarding Nagi the very few chapters after Rakan has explained Ala Rubra saga, and suddenly shifting Nagi's whereabouts wouldn't be any better.
Klashikari is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-03-12, 16:20   Link #8364
Shadow5YA
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiresias View Post
If he knew the contract was going to end, why bother adding more hints and mysteries?! Start resolving them already!
Foreshadowing potential story arcs is not a new strategy. Nisio does it with his Monogatari series. There were several earlier points where he could have ended it (like after Bake or Kizu), but chose not to. The same goes for Akamatsu.

When a work is partially influenced by the editor and publisher, the liberty to continue or end the work does not fall on the writer alone. The writer has to keep both options open: keep the world expansive enough to write more on it later, but also limit the story into separate arcs so that it can end if the time comes.

Again, it's not new. Wakaki did it early on in The World God Only Knows: the early story arcs were short and episodic, in case he had to end it soon, but there were several points that he could pick up later if he needed to, like the nature of Old and New Hell, the Weiss, Majima High's founding, etc.
Shadow5YA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-03-12, 21:05   Link #8365
Blank-Mage
Maniacal laughter ensues.
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: My own delusions of grandeur.
Age: 26
My questions that will never be answered are now "How did Nagi show up to save Negi's ass six years ago" and "WHAT THE HELL ARIKA". I also could have handled not knowing who Negi ends up with if it wasn't for the brutal tease that he does in fact have someone in mind.

Arika, though, isn't something I can just shrug off. Is she dead? There must be some reason she didn't stick around to help her quietly desperate and lonely son save her world. Or try to free the love of her life from his imprisonment. Or anything. The fact that Negi has absolutely zero interest in her whereabouts is frankly infuriating.

Also, our finale was Yue getting raped. I'm not sure how to handle that.
__________________
Blank-Mage is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-03-12, 21:07   Link #8366
Xellos-_^
Married
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: R'lyeh
Age: 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blank-Mage View Post
Also, our finale was Yue getting raped. I'm not sure how to handle that.

three guesses
__________________
Xellos-_^ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-03-12, 21:13   Link #8367
osorito
Member
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: USA
Age: 36
With any luck well get an OVA that explains the off screen part.
osorito is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-03-12, 22:18   Link #8368
TnAdct1
Honya-kun
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Clinton, Maryland
Quote:
Originally Posted by osorito View Post
With any luck well get an OVA that explains the off screen part.
Not going to happen, as the anime went with the "threaten to wipe everyone's minds save for Negi's permanent partner" route for the ending.
__________________
TnAdct1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-03-13, 06:10   Link #8369
Auron Requies
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
And there we have it. 355 Chapters of awesomeness.

After taking a breather from knowing a big favorite of mine is finished, had some time to put some thoughts together.

This ending would have been the perfect ending (ok maybe not perfect, but REALLY good) IF we were shown "One more story arc", which could have been the "Save Nagi Arc" to make this ending more meaningful.

I really liked the Fire Emblem like epilogue to each of the characters, to show how far they've come, though there's gonna be audience interpretation here and there. An example is:

Spoiler for 355:


I'd like to believe there's more to her ending, especially since she's always still maintained the 'working in the shadows' aspect. But that's what Akamatsu has left us, which I still find very strange.

It's not like that "Oh this ending frigging sucked, Negima ruined" moment for me, its more as I said, would been great if it had one more arc before it closed the book.

Even if in the future Negima material gets made, whether as a new manga, OAD (yes I'm aware anime final is meant to be the last but hey, time changes) or even drama cd, it will unfortunately never be seen as a "Sequel" to continue the story, and rather only ever be seen as 'side-material' or at most a 'prequel'.

A prequel would be nice to detail
Spoiler for 355:


However knowing the conclusion wont be as exciting compared to the event happening in real time. It'd be a feeling like the Ala Rubra stories, which while they were definately exciting, awesome, fun as hell (gosh see this is why you'd love this manga, lots of emotional mix, then again thats me) - it was already established that these events have happened, with foreshadowing/story hints here and there. Whereas with the final chapter, its just "This is what happened" blurb/summary.

The real feeling in the end is that of sadness + greatfullness to Akamatsu-sensei for writing one of my most favourite manga's for over the course of 9 years, despite the ending. At least this ending wasn't as weird as the anime final....which the only reason you'd accept that ending is the chance for a sequel.
Auron Requies is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-03-13, 13:33   Link #8370
OverMaster
Zok, Biff, Pow, Wham.
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Valencia, Venezuela
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiresias View Post
I will, however, at least explain why I think the later chapters suffered from bad writing.

[...]

Akamatsu chickened out. Either that, or he never knew what to do anyway. And Isn't it Sad, Anya?
You are my new hero.

And it's shocking to see the lenghts some people will try to go to justify the unjustifiable.
OverMaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-03-13, 13:37   Link #8371
myopius
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Spoiler for Negima:
myopius is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-03-13, 13:38   Link #8372
Klashikari
Swords•Maidens Maniac
*Graphic Designer
*Moderator
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Europe, Belgium, Brussels
Age: 27
Send a message via Skype™ to Klashikari
Quote:
Originally Posted by OverMaster View Post
And it's shocking to see the lenghts some people will try to go to justify the unjustifiable.
Many mangas were canned in a worse way (Mz0 anyone?), and still were "justifiable". To consider Negima's situation as unjustifiable is quite an overstatement, but that's just me I guess.
Klashikari is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-03-13, 13:38   Link #8373
Kurush
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: The Astral Plane of Sweden
Age: 24
Send a message via MSN to Kurush Send a message via Skype™ to Kurush
Quote:
Originally Posted by OverMaster View Post
It's shocking to see the lenghts some people will try to go to justify the unjustifiable.
I'm going to assume that you had no idea when you typed that.
__________________
Here, read this if interested.

"The objective is not to win. It is to eliminate every option for the enemy except the one to lose."

Knowledge is power. It should be shared.
Kurush is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-03-13, 15:55   Link #8374
TnAdct1
Honya-kun
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Clinton, Maryland
I think the best way to describe the problem with Negima's ending is this: instead of deciding on one or the other (i.e provide proper closure for either the "romance" section or the "Lifemaker possessing Nagi" situation), Ken Akamatsu ended up deciding to focus on both, resulting in the "romance" aspect being nothing more than Ken "teasing" the audience, while the "Nagi" situation was badly in need of real closure (rather than just "hey, Nagi's been saved, with some of 3-A meeting him in the final chapter").
__________________
TnAdct1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-03-13, 15:59   Link #8375
Sumeragi
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Dai Korai Teikoku
Quote:
Originally Posted by OverMaster View Post
And it's shocking to see the lenghts some people will try to go to justify the unjustifiable.
I'm just going to say that such a statement seems to have come from someone who had been pampered too much by the overall high quality of the series. I don't blame people if they feel as such, but still, Ken-san did magnificently considering the length constraint he was under, especially when compared to almost any other series.
Sumeragi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-03-13, 18:17   Link #8376
bonsobon
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumeragi View Post
I'm just going to say that such a statement seems to have come from someone who had been pampered too much by the overall high quality of the series. I don't blame people if they feel as such, but still, Ken-san did magnificently considering the length constraint he was under, especially when compared to almost any other series.
I agree. A bad ending dosen't mean a bad manga overall; it just means a bad ending to an otherwise enjoyable series.
bonsobon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-03-13, 18:26   Link #8377
Xellos-_^
Married
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: R'lyeh
Age: 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiresias View Post
That made my day.



It's a matter of personal taste I guess. And everybody's entitled to their opinion so I'm not going to force you to agree with me or anything.

I will, however, at least explain why I think the later chapters suffered from bad writing.

Simply put, there's one rule that goes for every story, whether it is in literature, manga, or movie form. That rule is "Show, Don't Tell", also known as "SHOW ME THE MONEY!", which basically translates as "If it's important enough to be in the story, the writer better have the fortitude to actually show it, rather than force his reader to do fill that part for him."

Now obviously we can't show all things. That is why we limit it to the important bits. for example, the "where they are now" scenes for side characters who barely have any relevance to the story doesn't need to be detailed, and some short description will suffice.

The important bits, however, have no excuse. I'm talking about Nagi - despite being absent for the majority of the story his existence and disappearance had left a great mark on Negi's character, so much that it defined his entire childhood. It was then logical for us to assume that Negi's quest to find him, to really find him instead of getting distracted by the "saving the Magical World" bit, as well as their eventual reunion to get a major focus.

Instead, it got resolved off-screen. We never knew what happened to him. Worse, We never saw what happened to him.

Same thing with the Lifemaker. Despite still being a threat at the end of the Mundus Magicus mega-arc we never saw his defeat, only a text describing that he lost and they win, parties for everyone!

But those two had it better. Arika didn't even get a slight mention. It's as if Ken purposely avoid mentioning her just to ship him with Eva.

In the end Negima Told, not Showed. So there, my 2 cents on why Akamatsu's writing plummeted near the end.



It doesn't need another hundred chapters. He could have resolved the whole Nagi thing back at the Mundus Magicus Arc. Instead, we merely get yet another mystery surrounding his disappearance which never got resolved on-screen.

He could have tidy up all the loose ends there. That couple of chapters of "Who Negi Loves" which in the end went nowhere? Yeah, he could have allocated those to the Mundus Magicus Arc and let the Nagi, Arika and Lifemaker issue get resolved right there. Done - no more important loose ends. Instead, the Lifemaker somehow has Nagi's face, and then that guy drops more hints on Nagi's fate. Hints that never went anywhere!

If he knew the contract was going to end, why bother adding more hints and mysteries?! Start resolving them already!

...instead, we got several chapters of aimless harem hijinks, as well as Asuna's "heyguyswhatareyoucryingfor - TIME TRAVEL SOLVES EVERYTHING!"



Akamatsu chickened out. Either that, or he never knew what to do anyway. And Isn't it Sad, Anya?
you do realize that Akamatsu is not renewing his contract with his publisher which is why Negima is ending early. This has nothing to do with whether or not Akamatsu still has it or lost it. Akamatsu is basically skipping all the important plot points (Arika, Lifemaker, Etc) not because he chicken out (whatever that means) or because his talent left him. But because he is LEAVING HIS PUBLISHER.

What is so hard to understand that Akamatsu is leaving his publisher which is why all the important stuff got skip?
__________________
Xellos-_^ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-03-13, 19:20   Link #8378
Tiresias
Labda Prakarsa Nirwikara
 
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Pekanbaru (UTC+07:00)
Age: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xellos-_^ View Post
But because he is LEAVING HIS PUBLISHER.

What is so hard to understand that Akamatsu is leaving his publisher which is why all the important stuff got skip?
Let's say that he's leaving his publisher. What does that have to do with giving a shitty ending that resolves a lot of plot point off-screen? He could have just, you now, not resolve them, paving a proper path for a sequel, should he ever want to resume.

Let's say that he's obliged to keep drawing Negima 'till chapter 355. Thing is, there are several useless chapters that could have been allocated to resolving the story:
- Chapter 341-343: They wasted three chapters talking and fighting about how great Negi and Asuna's sacrifice and yada yada and for what? Asuna got a Deus ex Machina that practically made all the surrounding drama meaningless and Negi wasn't shown with any side-effect in the ending.
- Chapter 344-349: Six chapters of teenage girls trying to pry on the private life of a freakin' ten-year old, with character derailment on several people just for good measure. What did we get out of that? Only Akira's pactio, which never got used in a serious story. What's the point of giving new powers when he's already planning on abandoning this story?
- Chapter 350-353: Oh noes, Asuna's going to stasis for more than a century and now she's alone. My gawd, that's so sad....wait, here's Chao to the rescue with a time travel machine to give her a super happy ending! Never mind that there's two Asuna now, and the other one still won't get lucky when it's her time to wake up in the future.

Thirteen chapters. Shoehorn those to the Mundus Magicus Arc to resolve the question of Nagi and Arika and there wouldn't have been a major loose end (it's inevitable that the minor things would be abandoned). Or make it thirteen chapters of people finding hints beneath the Gravekeepers Palace resulting in them finding Nagi, whatever. The resolution may end up rushed compared to the rest of the arcs, but that would still be much better than having it resolved off-screen Instead, he made... the above.

You know what's even more sad? Anya didn't even got mentioned and Chisame became a hikkikomori. They got luckier on the supposedly Bad End
__________________
Tiresias is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-03-13, 21:17   Link #8379
chaosprophet
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Brazil
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiresias View Post
Let's say that he's leaving his publisher. What does that have to do with giving a shitty ending that resolves a lot of plot point off-screen? He could have just, you now, not resolve them, paving a proper path for a sequel, should he ever want to resume.
Another way to see this is, as he had the number of chapters counted, instead of rushing like crazy to finish all the plot points with the amount of chapters he had left, he skipped them and showed the resolution of the major ones. That way the manga have and end, albeit a lacking one. And later a sequel could branch off around a point near the end, like just before the 7 years time skip, or just before the 5 months time skip.

If he is leaving the publisher, this means a sequel would be released somewhere else, so not necessary all who read Negima would be able to follow it. So that would be a reason to give Negima and end, even if he is going to continue, instead of leaving it at a point like ch 355.

Of course this is assuming, like you did when you wrote your post, that is the reason the manga ended at that point and that he will indeed continue it. Which are things we don't know.
__________________
chaosprophet is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-03-13, 21:26   Link #8380
TnAdct1
Honya-kun
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Clinton, Maryland
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiresias View Post
Let's say that he's obliged to keep drawing Negima 'till chapter 355. Thing is, there are several useless chapters that could have been allocated to resolving the story:
- Chapter 341-343: They wasted three chapters talking and fighting about how great Negi and Asuna's sacrifice and yada yada and for what? Asuna got a Deus ex Machina that practically made all the surrounding drama meaningless and Negi wasn't shown with any side-effect in the ending.
- Chapter 344-349: Six chapters of teenage girls trying to pry on the private life of a freakin' ten-year old, with character derailment on several people just for good measure. What did we get out of that? Only Akira's pactio, which never got used in a serious story. What's the point of giving new powers when he's already planning on abandoning this story?
- Chapter 350-353: Oh noes, Asuna's going to stasis for more than a century and now she's alone. My gawd, that's so sad....wait, here's Chao to the rescue with a time travel machine to give her a super happy ending! Never mind that there's two Asuna now, and the other one still won't get lucky when it's her time to wake up in the future.

Thirteen chapters. Shoehorn those to the Mundus Magicus Arc to resolve the question of Nagi and Arika and there wouldn't have been a major loose end (it's inevitable that the minor things would be abandoned). Or make it thirteen chapters of people finding hints beneath the Gravekeepers Palace resulting in them finding Nagi, whatever. The resolution may end up rushed compared to the rest of the arcs, but that would still be much better than having it resolved off-screen Instead, he made... the above.
Another option: instead of having the last two chapters focusing on a solo Yue story and the the aftermath of Nagi's rescue, have the last two chapters resolve the question on which student Negi likes (especially if Ken Akamatsu is reverting back to his "Love Hina" days for the last two volumes of the manga). That way, the final showdown with Nagi can be saved up for the sequel while the "middle-school teacher" portion of the story is officially over.
__________________
TnAdct1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
action, fantasy

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:48.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.