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Old 2012-03-13, 13:06   Link #261
Voxxen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AC-Phoenix View Post
i didn't really look at it, there was no other choice then seing it, as it was written at the same height where the the publishers would stand, just on the left side

But yes you can get it. The important hint you need is given to you pretty early and episode 10 lights on it again. You can btw open the spoiler tag as soon as you've watched EP 10, its not telling who it is. It doesn't even say in what episodes the hints forr identifying the Additional person are hidden.
The tag mainly features the 10 Knox rules as well as some clarifications openly made in EP 10.

Once the Blue Ray is out, you should probably be able to definitely solve it before EP 10, if they raise the overall video quality, that is.
You can, as of now, also get it, doing so really is speculating though, as you can't use the evidence.
Thanks for clearing that up, something that gets me though...

Mei States that the "Another" is at the hotel correct? (Episode 10)
That rules out the school staff and his aunt...
I was really in favor of the aunt theory, guess we read too into it and it would make the preview of characters in the intro useless...

Btw, I admire your conviction towards KNOX with so many people throwing you down, myself included. xD
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Old 2012-03-13, 14:20   Link #262
PreSage
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Originally Posted by Voxxen View Post
That rules out the school staff and his aunt...
There is one school staff member still there, the homeroom teacher, Ms. Mikami.
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Old 2012-03-13, 14:30   Link #263
Guardian Enzo
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Originally Posted by fanatic02 View Post
What kind of bird is "Rei-chan"? Does it go into more detail in the light novel? From the anime, it looks like a Mynah.
The one in the anime is definitely a mynah.
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Old 2012-03-13, 16:58   Link #264
AC-Phoenix
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Voxxen View Post
Thanks for clearing that up, something that gets me though...

Mei States that the "Another" is at the hotel correct? (Episode 10)
That rules out the school staff and his aunt...
I was really in favor of the aunt theory, guess we read too into it and it would make the preview of characters in the intro useless...

Btw, I admire your conviction towards KNOX with so many people throwing you down, myself included. xD
Its not really conviction;
As you may have seen I have often referred to Miss Marple books during my different attemps to analyze the evidence (before and after I got to know the solution). You now have to know that A. Christie and R.Knox were both in the same club, so it was easy to get that you can probably solve her novels using Knox rules. So I'm actually just used to apply them.
I can do a detailed analysis with all the hints given and where later.

As to the other part:
(no actual spoiler, just something to think about)
Spoiler for Theory about Mei's eye:


Does this mean anything or am I just pretending that it does?Is this part of the pehnomenon a deus ex Machima, a Lie Misaki told us? A hallucination or optical deception? Who knows :P.
I'm thrilled to see whether they have the same Another in the Anime as it is in the other works thouggh, because at least one death got already swapped between victims.
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Last edited by AC-Phoenix; 2012-03-13 at 17:12.
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Old 2012-03-13, 17:42   Link #265
Kanon
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Originally Posted by Dengar View Post
There's just one problem.

After Sakakibara transferred in, it turns out they were a desk short.
Of course. If (and only if) his transfer hasn't been planned beforehand, then obviously nobody prepared a desk for him. It's got nothing to do with the phenomenon.

And if the original class roster didn't include Kouichi, then there should have normally been only 28 desks prepared, since the extra person was only edited into the records in April. They should be two desks missing: one for the transfer student and one for the dead student. However, there were 29 of them from the beginning. That can only mean that a desk was prepared for Kouichi long advance, or that the extra person was never a student.

I don't know if I'm clear enough... basically, there are two cases scenario depending on when Kouichi was added on the roster:

- His transfer had been planned in advance -> There were 29 persons including him on the original roster, so a desk was prepared for him as well. The extra person used it and nobody ever noticed there was a desk missing for the future transfer student (until now, they apparently assumed it was a safe year with no extra student).
- His transfer was decided in April, after the school year had already started -> There were therefore only 28 persons on the original class roster if you take out Kouichi and the extra student, so 28 desks should have been prepared... yet there were 29. The only way to explain that is that all 29 students are real and were on the roster before the year started.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Goggen View Post
Okay, here's my crazy theory on how the end will play out based on what we know as of episode 10 with only two more to go. Note that this is 100% PURE SPECULATION as I have managed to stay completely spoiler free for this series and intend to keep it that way for the remaining two weeks. I'll spoilerize it anyway, just to be on the safe side.

Spoiler for SPECULATION:

And if I'm wrong about the identity of the Another, then it really could be anyone. That is, anyone except Kouichi or Mei - if it turns out it's either of those two after all, then that will have been the biggest cheat ever.

(Attention book/manga/wikipedia readers: Please do not comment. I do not want to know if my theory is close, right on the money, or way off.)
I don't agree about the identity of Another, but I love your idea for the final scene. It would be terrific if it ended that way.
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Last edited by Kanon; 2012-03-13 at 17:54.
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Old 2012-03-13, 18:08   Link #266
don_Durandal
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Someone did mention somewhere that there might be another Another in each medium (novel, anime and manga).


Anyway, unto the topic at hand: there are a few points that I need someone to clarify for me.
- In the first episode the visiting classmates have trouble saying Sakakibara’s name. Mei later explains that the classmates associate this name with “a cruel irrational death that occurred at school”. Yet later they don’t seem to have any trouble saying it anymore. Is this ever explained?
- why was the librarian surprised about Kouichi being Ritsuko’s son, and how come Misaki also knew about her? Yousuke did mention on the phone that she was special.

(On a related note, if “Sakakibara” is Kouichi’s father’s name, what is his mother’s (and Reiko’s) maiden name? And at that point I'm even starting to wonder if he's really the father.)

There’s also the mystery about Kouichi having been in Yomiya before that needs to be resolved. He doesn’t remember it, but an external source (his father) confirms it, and Akazawa mentions meeting him (was it really him she met?). This coincides with “the situation two years ago" (episode 4, 18:30). Wasn’t that when the “inexistent” student broke down and refused his role?
Note that they took a class trip to Tokyo the year before, so there's also the possibility they met there and then.
On the same topic, there’s also Matsunaga remembering seeing Reiko recently, something which she denies (is she lying? And/or and was it really Reiko?).

With Mei mentioning that siblings look alike in episode 10 we can’t even be sure that everybody is who they say (or think) they are anymore.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AC-Phoenix View Post
<…>But yes you can get it. The important hint you need is given to you pretty early and episode 10 lights on it again. <…>
I can think of three types of hints which would be useless to the majority of us:
- it requires being able to read kanji
- it requires being able to recognise someone (it’s anime and everybody looks alike!)
- it requires being aware of a specific Japanese custom
I sure hope it’s something more concrete than that, especially since the source material is a novel and thus shouldn’t require visual hints.
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Old 2012-03-13, 18:36   Link #267
haguruma
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Quote:
Originally Posted by don_Durandal View Post
- In the first episode the visiting classmates have trouble saying Sakakibara’s name. Mei later explains that the classmates associate this name with “a cruel irrational death that occurred at school”. Yet later they don’t seem to have any trouble saying it anymore. Is this ever explained?
- why was the librarian surprised about Kouichi being Ritsuko’s son, and how come Misaki also knew about her? Yousuke did mention on the phone that she was special.
Sakakibara Seito is the name of a 14 year old child murderer who killed in Kobe in 1997. Sakakibara is therefore the same age and shares the family name with Kouichi.
Misaki studied the old class pictures already and got all her information from Chibiki, who always gladly accepts help from students. It's not unlikely for them to be surprised that the sudden addition to class 3-3 is a relative of somebody who was in the class that started it all.

Quote:
I sure hope it’s something more concrete than that, especially since the source material is a novel and thus shouldn’t require visual hints.
I can assure you that most of the hints are very concrete...almost so concrete that I feared it might make the search for that one person more to easy. But I will come back to that once it has been revealed on the show.
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Old 2012-03-13, 18:42   Link #268
AC-Phoenix
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Quote:
Originally Posted by don_Durandal View Post
Someone did mention somewhere that there might be another Another in each medium (novel, anime and manga).


Anyway, unto the topic at hand: there are a few points that I need someone to clarify for me.
- In the first episode the visiting classmates have trouble saying Sakakibara’s name. Mei later explains that the classmates associate this name with “a cruel irrational death that occurred at school”. Yet later they don’t seem to have any trouble saying it anymore. Is this ever explained?- why was the librarian surprised about Kouichi being Ritsuko’s son, and how come Misaki also knew about her? Yousuke did mention on the phone that she was special.

(On a related note, if “Sakakibara” is Kouichi’s father’s name, what is his mother’s (and Reiko’s) maiden name? And at that point I'm even starting to wonder if he's really the father.)

There’s also the mystery about Kouichi having been in Yomiya before that needs to be resolved. He doesn’t remember it, but an external source (his father) confirms it, and Akazawa mentions meeting him (was it really him she met?). This coincides with “the situation two years ago" (episode 4, 18:30). Wasn’t that when the “inexistent” student broke down and refused his role?
Note that they took a class trip to Tokyo the year before, so there's also the possibility they met there and then.
On the same topic, there’s also Matsunaga remembering seeing Reiko recently, something which she denies (is she lying? And/or and was it really Reiko?).

With Mei mentioning that siblings look alike in episode 10 we can’t even be sure that everybody is who they say (or think) they are anymore.


I can think of three types of hints which would be useless to the majority of us:
- it requires being able to read kanji
- it requires being able to recognise someone (it’s anime and everybody looks alike!)
- it requires being aware of a specific Japanese custom
I sure hope it’s something more concrete than that, especially since the source material is a novel and thus shouldn’t require visual hints.
Ad Clarifications:
He has the same surname as a 13 or 14 year old boy who killed a 13 and a 10 year old student some time before that. There is a longer explaination about this in the novel and someone has already translated it somewhere. ->They just got used to it.

The Librarian was suprised because she was in the same class as the original Misaki and thus his student. Mei only read the name from the picture. You esentially just have to count where she stands and take that name.

I think the inexistant refusing his role was 7 years ago when they visited the temple, I might be wrong with that though. it was certainly not the first time someone did that though.

-Mei's look alike comment: You will have to find that one out yourself, both confirming and denying it could spoiler.

Ad useless hints:
Saying what kind of hint it is would actually spoiler everything, and since I can't read japanese I also can't say whether the autor smacks it in thee readers face as much as the anime does. I will however say a few words regarding your ideas:

ad 1): If they don't change anything regarding that when the BD comes out you are not required to read kanji to solve it.
this would be unfair even to the Japanese as some Words are pretty hard, even for japanese high school students.(Otherwise a certain Joke in a certain different anime would not work)
ad 2): You are always able to distinct characters in this anime by some way so no, its not that.
ad3): Its not a japanese custom either.
it being animated might help a bit but if they didn't change the dialogue too much you can easily get it without it being animated.

Quote:
Originally Posted by haguruma View Post
that I feared it might make the search for that one person more to easy. But I will come back to that once it has been revealed on the show.
Same here.
I don't think anyone got that essential piece as of yet though. Hard to remember 14 pages of speculations and theories though. I'm not even sure we are talking about the same clue.
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Old 2012-03-13, 19:07   Link #269
PreSage
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So who are the main candidates as the Another so far?

Spoiler for Another candidates:


Feel free to add to the roster.
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Old 2012-03-13, 21:13   Link #270
TinyRedLeaf
. . .
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haguruma View Post
Sakakibara Seito is the name of a 14 year old child murderer who killed in Kobe in 1997. Sakakibara is therefore the same age and shares the family name with Kouichi.
This is one of those instances where being able to read kanji makes a lot of difference. The real-life "Sakakibara" was 酒鬼薔薇. It wasn't a real name as much as it was an alias people came up with to tag the boy murderer whose actual identity had been kept secret. Contrast this with Kouichi's surname, 榊原. So, it isn't that the boys had the same "name", but rather that their "names" shared the same sound.

While it would have been a lot better had the anime made this link clear, I can at the same time understand why it was left out. The "connection" has so far had no bearing whatsoever on the plot. In a novel or manga, it's possible to leave a footnote at the bottom of the page to explain the similarity. In anime, that isn't possible, unless you add exposition that would be unnecessary if it had no relevance to the story.
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Old 2012-03-13, 22:26   Link #271
haguruma
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf View Post
This is one of those instances where being able to read kanji makes a lot of difference. The real-life "Sakakibara" was 酒鬼薔薇. It wasn't a real name as much as it was an alias people came up with to tag the boy murderer whose actual identity had been kept secret. Contrast this with Kouichi's surname, 榊原. So, it isn't that the boys had the same "name", but rather that their "names" shared the same sound.
Yes, of course you are right, but explaining that would have taken up unnecessary space right now. I already answered that section so many times by now, I've started to keep it short. Basically in a translation saying "they sounded alike" would appear strange as in Roman letters it is Sakakibara both ways.
In my translation of Mei's and Kouichi's conversation I limited the part where they talked about the Kanji to "his classmates wrote his name the same way Sakakibara did"...which gives a proper idea of what is meant to somebody who has no idea of kanji.

Still basically, they are both names Sakakibara and this name rung a bell in 1998, no matter how it was written in the end.
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Old 2012-03-13, 23:34   Link #272
sa547
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Spoiler for The Glass Eye:
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Old 2012-03-14, 03:31   Link #273
Lord of Fire
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Originally Posted by sa547 View Post
Spoiler for The Glass Eye:
Spoiler for possible explanation:
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Old 2012-03-14, 03:55   Link #274
AC-Phoenix
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord of Fire View Post
Spoiler for possible explanation:
Spoiler for Mei's eye:
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Old 2012-03-14, 08:22   Link #275
Jimmy C
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Not to mention this is 1998, they don't have the technology to give her an artificial eye with vision capability. Whatever is going on is totally supernatural.
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Old 2012-03-14, 13:05   Link #276
AC-Phoenix
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Originally Posted by Jimmy C View Post
Not to mention this is 1998, they don't have the technology to give her an artificial eye with vision capability. Whatever is going on is totally supernatural.
According to to Wikipedia visual prothesis are in use since the mid 1980ies, which would fit in well considering that Mei is 15 in 98. 11 years before it was 87 so the first ones where already there.
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Old 2012-03-14, 13:37   Link #277
TinyRedLeaf
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At this point, I find myself half-wishing that a certain silver-haired vagrant medicine man would emerge from an uroana somewhere in the hills and walk into town to tell everyone: DON'T PANIC!

The various phenomena are just the work of extremely basic life forms that can't be seen with normal eyes, he'd say. They aren't to blame for the tragedy they cause; they are simply going about their daily existence, oblivious to whatever effect they have on humans. Some of these life forms can even be beneficial; I should know, he'd say, because I have injected one particular strain into a glass eye and turned it into a bona fide organic eye! It only looks miraculous, but once you get to know the life form responsible for the transformation, it's all actually very scientific, he'd add.

But the young man, who has a penchant for Eddie Bauer trench coats it seems, would readily concede that one particular life form is causing a lot of inadvertent harm and must therefore be removed for everyone's safety. I'd understand, he'd say, because I once had to "kill" this fungus-like creature that caused a woman to become barren and then impersonated human children so as to be adopted by the grief-stricken lady. It's a tough choice, but human life must unfortunately take precedence over the life form's right to existence, he'd admit reluctantly.

He'd then round up a few Yomiyama locals, including the students of Class 3-3, and explain another counter-measure that would deal with the malignant life form for good. Then all would become fine and dandy and just as an unreasonable number of women start falling in love with him, the silver-haired man would mutter something about attracting more trouble to the area and how even veteran travellers would go soft if they stay in one place too long, and then disappear into the woods again and return to his usual wandering on the other end of the apparently-supernatural-but-actually-totally normal uroana.

The End.
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Old 2012-03-14, 16:54   Link #278
Dengar
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Originally Posted by Kanon View Post
- His transfer had been planned in advance -> There were 29 persons including him on the original roster, so a desk was prepared for him as well. The extra person used it and nobody ever noticed there was a desk missing for the future transfer student (until now, they apparently assumed it was a safe year with no extra student).
- His transfer was decided in April, after the school year had already started -> There were therefore only 28 persons on the original class roster if you take out Kouichi and the extra student, so 28 desks should have been prepared... yet there were 29. The only way to explain that is that all 29 students are real and were on the roster before the year started.
It can't be the second one, because they didn't notice the missing desk until AFTER they were told about the transfer student.
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Old 2012-03-14, 19:58   Link #279
haguruma
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dengar View Post
It can't be the second one, because they didn't notice the missing desk until AFTER they were told about the transfer student.
Well, the fact that Kouichi's name is at the bottom of the roster proofs that he was added after it was finalized, otherwise he would have been placed between Kawahori and Sakuragi at No.11 and not at No.30. Being placed so far down shows that he was added afterwards, at least after the class-order had been formally decided upon.
The question is, would the one person more actually appear visibly as someone who joined later? This would be against the coherency the phenomenon seems to aim for, as it would actually draw attention to this student, wouldn't it? On the other hand, his status as an outsider transfering into the school would perfectly disguise any doubt about nobody having any contact to him up until 1998.
Or Kouichi could have originally been at place 29 but the inclusion of one person more among the students before that pushed him down one place. As the roster is only observed by him and Mei in June, it is already 3 months after the school year began and the roster would no longer be a completely believable source.

Still his position on the roster shows that his arrival wasn't announced early enough to warrant his placement in the original roster when it was first published.
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Old 2012-03-14, 21:51   Link #280
AC-Phoenix
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Originally Posted by haguruma View Post
Well, the fact that Kouichi's name is at the bottom of the roster proofs that he was added after it was finalized, otherwise he would have been placed between Kawahori and Sakuragi at No.11 and not at No.30. Being placed so far down shows that he was added afterwards, at least after the class-order had been formally decided upon.
The question is, would the one person more actually appear visibly as someone who joined later? This would be against the coherency the phenomenon seems to aim for, as it would actually draw attention to this student, wouldn't it? On the other hand, his status as an outsider transfering into the school would perfectly disguise any doubt about nobody having any contact to him up until 1998.
Or Kouichi could have originally been at place 29 but the inclusion of one person more among the students before that pushed him down one place. As the roster is only observed by him and Mei in June, it is already 3 months after the school year began and the roster would no longer be a completely believable source.

Still his position on the roster shows that his arrival wasn't announced early enough to warrant his placement in the original roster when it was first published.
Still soon enough for a desk to be added though.
Adding a Desk is a matter of 10 minutes and they definitely knew he would be there in April, which is when thee introduction scene takes place and Reiko tells him where his school is.
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