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Old 2012-03-16, 08:08   Link #1061
totoum
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanon View Post
They've far exceeded all my expectations (which to be fair weren't very high before the show started )
Hiroyuki Imaishi is announced as the the director of the action scenes and you don't have high expectations?What's wrong with you
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Old 2012-03-16, 08:12   Link #1062
fertygo
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Originally Posted by totoum View Post
Hiroyuki Imaishi is announced as the the director of the action scenes and you don't have high expectations?What's wrong with you
This. I'm already know at least that part would be great.
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Old 2012-03-16, 08:40   Link #1063
novalysis
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The last few episodes have been really, really surprisingly strong, but unfortunately, the weakness and terrible character development of the first few episodes rob the premise of the execution it deserves.

The primary issue it seems to me is simply pacing. We are given to little time to sympathize with the cast, with the secondary problem that their cast is quite weakly written.

In any case, the premise of BRS reminds me strongly of Madoka Magica. Truth to be told, under more competent directing early on, and a slightly clearer and more organized and well paced plot, I'd dare say that this anime could have had the potential at least to be a good anime based on the atmosphere and sub-genre of magical girl and fantasy that Madoka Magica carved a niche for itself in.

I'd really like to see a season 2 here, more properly paced (preferably with two cour), better directed, with better characterization, and with the premise even more thoroughly explored. They have ended with a very, very good premise to spin off potentially well written stories out of. Considering that Guilty Crown netted excellent sales.... and the vast legion of fans BRS likely has, I think that BD sales might well be high enough for a second season exploring deeper into the premise that the BRS anime attempted to build up and establish.

It's a shame, but I think BRS is yet another example why certain plots are very exceedingly difficult to be told in a single cour, let alone 8 episodes. In that manner, I think it suffers from a similar problem to Angel Beats - excellent premise, potentially interesting character but terrifyingly atrocious pacing and very rushed and compressed plot.
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Old 2012-03-16, 08:42   Link #1064
silvercover
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Originally Posted by CalicoCat View Post
I'd draw a distinction between physical pain and psychological pain (note: my Japanese isn't good enough to have caught whether different words were used in the original dialogue - maybe someone can comment?). In the real world, the psychological damage Yuu received at the hands of others goes unpunished, whereas the only response available to her - physical violence - would have been ineffectual or quickly curtailed. In the Otherworld, the freedom to act without thinking, to inflict suffering on others, even if physical pain were possible or even certain, would be incredibly cathartic for someone with Yuu's background. Ep.7 suggests, for me, the reason for Yuu's smile after the fire in Ep.6; it was a smile of "You know, don't you? This is what I wanted to do. I'm stoic on the outside, but inside there's a terrible fury waiting to escape."
pretty much this. this is why I didnt find yuu's attitude that weird/inconsistent, while finding her pretty awesome.

physical pain heals within minutes in the otherworld(as we clearly see), while psychological pain lasts a long time wherever you are(as IRL). plus, we dont actually see yuu's character in the flashback as someone who's doing things(or rather, not doing anything with her situation) "because she's nice". feels a lot more to me as "someone who has given up on life".
it brings quite a contrast with mato's own situation and way of coping.
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Old 2012-03-16, 08:51   Link #1065
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Old 2012-03-16, 09:00   Link #1066
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Episode 7 really good. More information about the other world is revealed, and also some character development for Strength.. she's surprisingly kind for someone who fights a lot - possibly a hint that other world beings can actually live in human society? Or maybe Strength is an exception because she learned how to feel emotions. The others would probably just proceed to attack the first human they see.

And yes, so glad that Dead Master seems to have some life back in her. I wonder how this will effect events in the final episode? Hoping for a nice conclusion to everything.
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Old 2012-03-16, 10:00   Link #1067
dan-heron
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silvercover View Post
it brings quite a contrast with mato's own situation and way of coping.
yet, they both are pretty similar.

Mato's "Somebody else endures my pain so I will never be truly hurt" and Yuu's "Somebody else endures my pain so she has to make sure I don't suffer more"

both pretty selfish, but understandable when you consider their history.
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Old 2012-03-16, 10:03   Link #1068
ninryu
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Originally Posted by Liddo-kun View Post
possibly a hint that other world beings can actually live in human society?
I doubt so, Strength and Yuu's case seems to be special. I do hope to see other characters interact with their Others.
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Old 2012-03-16, 10:28   Link #1069
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dan-heron View Post
yet, they both are pretty similar.

Mato's "Somebody else endures my pain so I will never be truly hurt" and Yuu's "Somebody else endures my pain so she has to make sure I don't suffer more"

both pretty selfish, but understandable when you consider their history.
Though in Mato's case she was only subconsciously projecting her negative emotions into the Otherworld - as we saw at the end of ep.6, once she fully realizes the consequences of her actions she rejects it as an approach.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ninryu View Post
I doubt so, Strength and Yuu's case seems to be special. I do hope to see other characters interact with their Others.
Looking at ep.7 and back at ep.6, in particular how tender STR is with Saya at the end, I'm wondering whether Yuu hasn't properly split her personality in two, with all the good emotions ending up in STR in the real world, and all the negative ones with Yuu in the Otherworld. But that might be overanalysis on my part...

And also, when STR tells Mato that BRS "isn't you" - is she just telling her to assert her own personality, or is she saying that BRS really isn't Mato's counterpart in the Otherworld, that she's actually something else? If she's not Mato's counterpart it would help to explain why STR first becomes aware of her way back in the past (in real world terms).

(Oh, and slightly tongue in cheek, it struck me that the philosophy of BRS TV is fundamentally Evangelion x Madoka, i.e. "Suffering comes from other people" x "Teenage girls are magical!" )
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Old 2012-03-16, 10:47   Link #1070
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well, Mato would be around 4-5 when STR awakened. Yuu and Saya couldn't have met for longer than 10 years if we go by the console they are playing with and the calendar in Saya's apartment.

also, remember how back in episode 5 Yuu and Mato agreed that it would be better to face their problems and fix them through the work of everybody? yeah...

EDIT:

actually, you know what? A 6 year old Mato could have found the Little Bird book and fixated on it. She probably understood the message of the book in a way that spawned BRS for the first time, leading to her ideology of fixing other people problems to save them from their pain and save HER from suffering their pain. She mentioned that Rock WAS the Black bird for her...

this would also fit with the beginning of Mato's memories of growing up with Yuu...

Last edited by dan-heron; 2012-03-16 at 11:09.
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Old 2012-03-16, 11:06   Link #1071
Stevie_Nix
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Episode 07 was excellent!

Yomi remembers her love for Mato! Deadmaster returns from death!

I mean the ending credits made me cry, I was so happy. Who would have thought that an eye twich would mean so much!

Hurry Yomi, your wife needs you! Though I wonder what will happen now that Kagari is starting to remember her love too.

So it turns out the "kill emotions" idea was originally Black Rock Shooter's? (By the way, I rather loved the art style used in Strength's flashback.)

I wonder, will Yuu ever return to the regular world? I really hope if she does, Strength doesn't disappear from the regular world.

Damn, I really, really can't wait until next week.
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Old 2012-03-16, 12:18   Link #1072
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dan-heron View Post
well, Mato would be around 4-5 when STR awakened. Yuu and Saya couldn't have met for longer than 10 years if we go by the console they are playing with and the calendar in Saya's apartment.
Good call on the ages. I'd been assuming that Saya meeting STR was earlier, but 10 years (or so) would be more consistent with the evidence. That puts BRS first appearing around the time of Yuu's house fire (which may, or may not, have some connection).
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Old 2012-03-16, 13:06   Link #1073
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Originally Posted by xizro345 View Post
It doesn't really explain anything about BRS, or why IBRS would "destroy that world".
There might be others but BRS is probably the only one they met. So they think BRS "destroys the world" but it would probably only be ending their access to it. And if Chariot comes back from the dead, it wouldn't be even permanent.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dan-heron View Post
actually, you know what? A 6 year old Mato could have found the Little Bird book and fixated on it. She probably understood the message of the book in a way that spawned BRS for the first time, leading to her ideology of fixing other people problems to save them from their pain and save HER from suffering their pain. She mentioned that Rock WAS the Black bird for her...
My theory is that Mato might believe to have caused, or almost caused, a death due to angry feelings on her part.
She did react rather violently to BRS's stabbing of DM. Perhaps because it's not the first time she saw such a scene.
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Old 2012-03-16, 13:15   Link #1074
dan-heron
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dawww, Klashikari, I was about to post an incredibly relevant statement and a downsized version... honest....

Quote:
Originally Posted by CalicoCat View Post
Good call on the ages. I'd been assuming that Saya meeting STR was earlier, but 10 years (or so) would be more consistent with the evidence. That puts BRS first appearing around the time of Yuu's house fire (which may, or may not, have some connection).
I'm thinking that Saya and Yuu spent at least a year together. That or they just met during a single summer since they keep the same short sleeved uniform.

Yuu at least knew about the Otherworld long enough that she could tell when Str was about to die and order her not to.

I'm thinking Mato was around 5-6 when she first reads the Little Bird, which makes her turn Rock into the Black Bird's representation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spinell View Post
My theory is that Mato might believe to have caused, or almost caused, a death due to angry feelings on her part.
She did react rather violently to BRS's stabbing of DM. Perhaps because it's not the first time she saw such a scene.
.... she can see events in Otherworld through her dreams... it's very likely she initially saw Herself killing others and that drove her to think that Rock was somebody else rather than her darker self.
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Old 2012-03-16, 13:50   Link #1075
ookamigirl
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Getting Mato to snap out of that world is not gonna be easy.
So much fighting and anger...
Seems like she's sinking deeper & deeper in her sorrow, guilt & anger.
Yuu's effort made a difference.
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Old 2012-03-16, 15:34   Link #1076
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ookamigirl View Post
Getting Mato to snap out of that world is not gonna be easy.
So much fighting and anger...
Seems like she's sinking deeper & deeper in her sorrow, guilt & anger.
Yuu's effort made a difference.
The only person that can save her is Yomi. Remember all this started because Mato believes she killed Deadmaster. Once she knows Yomi/Deadmaster is alive, I believe she will be able to snap BRS out of her insanity and return to the regular world.
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Old 2012-03-16, 17:11   Link #1077
Kanon
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Originally Posted by dan-heron View Post
actually, you know what? A 6 year old Mato could have found the Little Bird book and fixated on it. She probably understood the message of the book in a way that spawned BRS for the first time, leading to her ideology of fixing other people problems to save them from their pain and save HER from suffering their pain. She mentioned that Rock WAS the Black bird for her...

this would also fit with the beginning of Mato's memories of growing up with Yuu...
That makes sense given how obsessed she is with that book. I wouldn't be surprised if you were spot-on about that. I don't see how it's related to her memories of Yuu/STR though.
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Old 2012-03-16, 17:28   Link #1078
Elestia
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Originally Posted by CalicoCat View Post
I'd draw a distinction between physical pain and psychological pain (note: my Japanese isn't good enough to have caught whether different words were used in the original dialogue - maybe someone can comment?). In the real world, the psychological damage Yuu received at the hands of others goes unpunished, whereas the only response available to her - physical violence - would have been ineffectual or quickly curtailed. In the Otherworld, the freedom to act without thinking, to inflict suffering on others, even if physical pain were possible or even certain, would be incredibly cathartic for someone with Yuu's background. Ep.7 suggests, for me, the reason for Yuu's smile after the fire in Ep.6; it was a smile of "You know, don't you? This is what I wanted to do. I'm stoic on the outside, but inside there's a terrible fury waiting to escape."
Actually, we don't actually ever see Yuu attacking anyone throughout the entire series. Most of the time we see her is spending time watching from a distance or dragging the corpses of BRS victims into that huge hole in the ground. That seems to indicate more that she actively avoids conflicts, and the reason why she asked Saya to protect her when she decided to go to the other world. We don't know what happened to Yuu after she went over to the otherworld, but we do have some clues to what happened to Strength in the real world. Given that BRS was there ten years ago she would have gambled that she would survived her encounters in the otherworld, meaning her chance to inflict pain on others and using that as a cathartic experience would have been short lived during that time.
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Old 2012-03-16, 18:51   Link #1079
novalysis
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Originally Posted by Elestia View Post
Actually, we don't actually ever see Yuu attacking anyone throughout the entire series. Most of the time we see her is spending time watching from a distance or dragging the corpses of BRS victims into that huge hole in the ground. That seems to indicate more that she actively avoids conflicts, and the reason why she asked Saya to protect her when she decided to go to the other world. We don't know what happened to Yuu after she went over to the otherworld, but we do have some clues to what happened to Strength in the real world. Given that BRS was there ten years ago she would have gambled that she would survived her encounters in the otherworld, meaning her chance to inflict pain on others and using that as a cathartic experience would have been short lived during that time.
But if BRS existed ten years ago, whose otherself was she? Mato, or someone else altogether?

That's where the chronology breaks down here.
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Old 2012-03-16, 18:58   Link #1080
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But if BRS existed ten years ago, whose otherself was she? Mato, or someone else altogether?
10 years ago seems a little too much. I'd say 6 years at most. And in the case I can see a little Mato of 7-8 years old going through some hardship that ended up with BRS being born in the other world at that time.
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