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Old 2012-03-16, 16:09   Link #21
Chiibi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raduccio View Post
I don't know.. compared to the protagonist from Maison Ikkoku and SDF Macross, Tomoya's personality is absolutely magnetic.
For sure!

Quote:
You see, Kenshiro is one of the few characters that I like from 80's anime but comparing him to a high school romance drama protagonist is just wrong.
I wanted to point that out too. Best to just stick to "what fits the genre". I simply cannot picture any of the Clannad girls snuggling up to a guy who looks like he could snap them in two and eat them for breakfast.

Quote:
Speaking purely in artistic context, western animation and comic designs are far superior technically and have extremely broad range of designs. Western characters are designed to reflect completely their personality and appeal. If a character is to be hated, he will look evil and downright ugly. If a character is lazy and gluttonous, he will be drawn fat. No evil bishies and gluttons who are skinny, function of characters determine their appearance.
On the contrary, I find this to be a major drawback with Western-style animation. It's too damn predictable. There's such a huge lack of subtly and imagination, you often feel like you're being treated like an idiot... It's far removed from reality and kinda shallow as well. "Evil is always ugly and dark" "Good is always beautiful and bright"?
Nooooooo!
I much prefer the Japanese showing us how beautiful people can actually be evil and twisted, and characters who look like losers can be heroes, etc. Children can be terrifying monsters (literally) and adults can be kinder and wiser.
Stuff that's OUTSIDE the box. Stuff that's not so cliche, you know?
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Last edited by Chiibi; 2012-03-16 at 16:26.
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Old 2012-03-16, 16:11   Link #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
While there are some exceptions, I think I prefer today's sleek and streamlined female character designs over the 80s ones.

OTOH, I must admit I miss the badass mullet-sporting anime guys of older anime.


So I guess for me, the best of both worlds would be yesterday's guys and today's gals.
For me, this in a nutshell. I think I've been seconding Triple R a lot these days.

I'm in the moe camp regarding female chara designs, and I find the 80s not quite the way I like it. If I were given two characters I don't even know (so no emotional attachment to the characters) from 80's and the latest, most likely I would pick the latest design.

However, as a man, I admire GAR. Bishounen's cool and a trap is fine too, but there is a special place in me about GAR, badass, males, and they're becoming a rare breed nowadays. The 80's jagged edges actually make the design even more perfect. Come to think of it, even Gurren Lagann applied the jagged edges design when it's a GAR moment.
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Old 2012-03-16, 16:14   Link #23
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If we're talking about absolutely generic sorts of styles, then they all suck, no matter which era they are from. When I think about art styles I like, I don't think about any particular era, I think of certain particular shows which happened to have great character design.

And here are my favourite designs:
Spoiler:

Last edited by fanty; 2012-03-16 at 16:43.
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Old 2012-03-16, 16:25   Link #24
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Actually I like all of the first 3 pics... some things are timeless.

I dunno man, when I see chimpmunk generic lack of detail wanna be moe faces from series that shall not be named, I don't necessarily feel that it's superior. Zeta Gundam looks great to me this very day.

In the end, I prefer well done designs in this day and age, but it won't really change too much.
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Old 2012-03-16, 16:32   Link #25
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My avatar should give an indication of what I prefer.

I think my main beef with modern character designs is how utterly refined and streamlined they are (not sure if I'm wording this to get my meaning across). Many modern character designs look like fucking aliens. I know that anime has looked that way for a long time (the big eyes especially), but over the years it's gotten more and more exaggerated. It's like character design has been pared down to the bare essentials. I also think older designs often had influences from outside anime, whereas over the years the designers just seemed to look more and more within anime/manga for inspiration. There's also a lot more shojo influence on designs (again not sure how to word this). Elongated torsos and limbs, sharp edges to faces, etc. It's like character designs have been refined so much over the years that the resulting characters don't look remotely human. This is especially bad for male characters. I hate what has happened to male character design, especially since so many shows target a fujoshi element now. The dudes all look like they stepped out of a shojo comic, and I've never been a fan of how men were usually drawn there.

I'll echo some of the other comments and say that by and large, I do not particularly like the way a lot of modern anime looks from a production standpoint. When the cel to digital transition happened, I hated the way digital anime looked. It's gotten a lot better, but I still prefer cel animation. There's something about the sketchy edges and real paint that digital just can't match for me. Yes, modern digital anime is much (much) cleaner, but it's also sterile and lacking in "warmth" that older anime had.
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Old 2012-03-16, 16:43   Link #26
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And did we really miss the 90s?

Spoiler:
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Old 2012-03-16, 16:55   Link #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C.A. View Post
Speaking purely in artistic context, western animation and comic designs are far superior technically and have extremely broad range of designs. Western characters are designed to reflect completely their personality and appeal. If a character is to be hated, he will look evil and downright ugly. If a character is lazy and gluttonous, he will be drawn fat. No evil bishies and gluttons who are skinny, function of characters determine their appearance.
I still think Marvel goes over the top with their characters though
they've gone from cartoons to charicatures

from 'design standpoint' I think I like the 'realism' in certain french comics

Anime/Manga is hard to not see the change of times (especially looking at 80's->now)
But both are still generic designs, it takes a larger budget to actually see 'quality'

What can I say, as example, I like Masamune Shirow's earlier art, and Tony Taka's today equally

But it's like we're comparing Ben Hurr to Gladiator here
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Old 2012-03-16, 17:03   Link #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TurkeyPotPie View Post
I hate what has happened to male character design, especially since so many shows target a fujoshi element now. The dudes all look like they stepped out of a shojo comic, and I've never been a fan of how men were usually drawn there.
You will never hear me complaining about THAT, sir.
However, I have to disagree with the word "all". A lot of shounen action main characters still look quite "shounen" and masculine. Look at Kamina for example. And of course One Piece. The Soul Eater guys too.

Quote:
And did we really miss the 90s?
Even though most of my favorite titles are after the 90s, I'm a HUGE 90s anime fan. XD The 90s was a huge defining point for me. Sailormoon was my first magical girl. Tenchi Muyo was my first harem. DBZ was my first action shounen, Gundam Wing my first mecha, Rurouni Kenshin my first samurai, etc.
And if the term moe existed back then, Galaxy Fraulein Yuna had to be my first moe.
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Old 2012-03-16, 17:12   Link #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chiibi View Post
On the contrary, I find this to be a major drawback with Western-style animation. It's too damn predictable. There's such a huge lack of subtly and imagination, you often feel like you're being treated like an idiot... It's far removed from reality and kinda shallow as well. "Evil is always ugly and dark" "Good is always beautiful and bright"?
Nooooooo!
I much prefer the Japanese showing us how beautiful people can actually be evil and twisted, and characters who look like losers can be heroes, etc. Children can be terrifying monsters (literally) and adults can be kinder and wiser.
Stuff that's OUTSIDE the box. Stuff that's not so cliche, you know?
Agreed, I mean evil looking evil can work sometimes, but it shouldn't be the only thing done which seems to be the case for the west, and such characters rarely work for the interesting more grays areas of good and evil , imo.

And personally I definitely prefer modern character designs over 80s by a wide margin just by appearance, I am not much for artistic terms though, so would be hard for me to give reasons why .
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Old 2012-03-16, 17:35   Link #30
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Originally Posted by Konakaga View Post
Agreed, I mean evil looking evil can work sometimes, but it shouldn't be the only thing done which seems to be the case for the west, and such characters rarely work for the interesting more grays areas of good and evil.
So true!
I suppose we could blame this on the whole "cartoons are for children so they should be easy to figure out" mindset America seems to have.....but in graphic novels that are NOT aimed at children still seem to have the problem. Or am I wrong?
Batman certainly isn't guilty of this; a child who has never seen Batman before may think he's "a bad guy" with his narrow eyes and all black attire.

But then I always felt that Batman, especially the animated series treated kids much more maturely and took risks most 'kids' shows' would not.
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Old 2012-03-16, 17:36   Link #31
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I think the recent Star Wars: Clone Wars cartoon can show that sense of design. Where evil guys look evil...(usually). The eaters are large. They even had a traitorious Gungan that has the "eyebrows of evil" on the top of his eyestocks.

The only times they don't do this is when you are suppose to be guessing who the bad guy is for most of the episode. And even then you usually have expresssion changes after they are found out that are of the old fashioned evil style.

The Clones themselves are a bit different, since they all have the same face. The good and evil ones are the same.

Though is it wrong to think that the acting in the Clone Wars is better than most of the more recent Star Wars films?
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Old 2012-03-16, 17:44   Link #32
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Was Clone Wars made for kids though?

Quote:
Though is it wrong to think that the acting in the Clone Wars is better than most of the more recent Star Wars films?
Wrong? Probably not.
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Old 2012-03-16, 17:50   Link #33
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My impression is the Clone Wars is made for teens. (Padawan Ahsoka being a young teen added into the mix suggests this). Though there is a lot of death in the Clone Wars. A lot more than you would expect in say a 1980s cartoon.

Even dismemberment. But not as much blood from that (lightsabers cauderize the wounds, usually). But some disturbing things even.
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Old 2012-03-16, 18:12   Link #34
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Here is another way to state my position.

If you look at a still shot, picture of character frozen in time, I think today's characters have slight edge as there are much more things possible now, compared to the 80s.

But, if you ask which era's characters you like, and limit the discussion to characters in top 25% according to screen time or dialog lines, I would say 1980s in a heartbeat, as 1980s characters were much more complicated and enjoyed much more character growth compared to today. In almost every non-visual aspects, 80s characters were better compared to today's characters. This may be due to the fact that they had to sell those characters without all the visual aids we have now.
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Old 2012-03-16, 18:54   Link #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erneiz_hyde View Post
For me, this in a nutshell. I think I've been seconding Triple R a lot these days.
Thanks! I appreciate it.


Quote:
I'm in the moe camp regarding female chara designs, and I find the 80s not quite the way I like it. If I were given two characters I don't even know (so no emotional attachment to the characters) from 80's and the latest, most likely I would pick the latest design.
There are some 80s anime girls that I think are well-drawn (these two for example), but most of the ones I've seen look a bit too... plain, is probably the best word for it.


Quote:

However, as a man, I admire GAR. Bishounen's cool and a trap is fine too, but there is a special place in me about GAR, badass, males, and they're becoming a rare breed nowadays. The 80's jagged edges actually make the design even more perfect. Come to think of it, even Gurren Lagann applied the jagged edges design when it's a GAR moment.
Exactly.

Modern anime style strikes me as relatively feminine, across the board, when compared to the 80s anime style. In other words, modern female anime characters generally look more feminine to me than most 80s female anime characters, but this is also true for the male anime characters as well (modern male anime characters looking more feminine to me than most 80s ones).

Like yourself, I don't mind bishounens or a trap character here and there, but I also would like to see more GAR, badass males. Jagged edges, thicker hair, and thicker muscularity and/or realistic anatomy, can all add a lot here, imo.
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Old 2012-03-16, 19:31   Link #36
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A lot of discussions comparing some previous decade with the modern era always inevitably lead back to this question: has the change in the frequency of whatever we're discussing really that large? If we're talking about the jagged edges thing or organic feel, then yeah that's an obvious macroscopic change due to a difference in technique. In terms of individual designs though, we can't really say Kenshiro represents what every male character in the 80s looks like; I'm sure there's more wimpy-looking males in other, less well-known 80s show. Nor does Kamina embody everything that is the modern style either. Maybe 80s do tend to have a larger frequency of GAR-looking men than today (I personally lean towards yes), but I just want to point out that, consciously or subconsciously, comparing a few famous old shows with a hundred modern shows of all types may distort one's perception.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
Like yourself, I don't mind bishounens or a trap character here and there, but I also would like to see more GAR, badass males. Jagged edges, thicker hair, and thicker muscularity and/or realistic anatomy, can all add a lot here, imo.
Like the ones in your sig?
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Old 2012-03-16, 19:35   Link #37
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Originally Posted by Eater of All View Post
Like the ones in your sig?
Well, actually, Fate/Zero male characters do strike me as a bit more GAR or masculine than most modern anime male characters.

But I admit that Tokiomi Tohsaka is not the best example of that, and is there for comedic rather than admiring reasons.
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Old 2012-03-16, 19:49   Link #38
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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
There are some 80s anime girls that I think are well-drawn (these two for example), but most of the ones I've seen look a bit too... plain, is probably the best word for it.
Is it just me or does the face of the purple girl look photoshopped? O_o
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Old 2012-03-16, 19:55   Link #39
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Originally Posted by Akito_Kinomoto View Post
Is it just me or does the face of the purple girl look photoshopped? O_o
That's her real face (i.e. it's not photoshopped). She's the antagonist B-Ko from the 80s anime Project A-Ko, one of my favorite 80s anime shows.

Here are three other pics of her.
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Old 2012-03-16, 19:56   Link #40
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