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Old 2012-03-16, 20:29   Link #41
Magin
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In terms of which I prefer... well, there are things on both sides of the coin. On one had, technology was far more limited than it is today, and thus you couldn't get certain details. But on the other hand... because so much today is done via CG, whereas most of the old stuff was hand drawn, there's just a certainly quality to the old stuff that the new stuff is lacking. Take the Studio Ghibli films for instance- I'm not sure how true it is with their more recent stuff, but I understand that Miyazaki would hand draw the animation, and we should all be familiar with the quality that is produced.
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Old 2012-03-16, 21:38   Link #42
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How about naming artists or Chara designers from those decades? Me? Tsukasa Hojo of City Hunter fame, Shingo Araki WHO made the designs for Saint Seiya animation, Narumi Kakinouchi WHO did Vampire Princess Miyu, Yoshiyuki Sadamoto the Eva designer.What about the one guy who designed Golden Boy AND Cowboy Bebop?? Yasuhiro Nightow? Not to say that 2000s are without designers or artists devoid of merits, that woman who did the designs for denpa onna and yamibou or the Jcstaff guy behind the designs of To Aru anime. Those guys are gold and What decade they are from, I dont give a flying fuck. I watch anime for the chars,stories and universes,not because that one series was made in the mute era and that it made my dong bigger thanyall.
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Old 2012-03-16, 22:00   Link #43
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The thing about 80s anime characters is that...well...they don't look like anime characters. 90s characters look too "raw." If I'm going to watch anime, I prefer the crispness of 2000s design. I'd have to say that the Haruhi anime probably best exemplifies my favorite visual style.
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Old 2012-03-16, 22:27   Link #44
Vexx
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I like both the '80s style' and the modern styles... but the 80s styles used, well, 80s hairstyles (like Dirty Pair) and fashion. They tend to look like they're headed for the disco for a Beegees marathon.

The other thing is that there seems to a greater variety in modern styles (compare Kurozuka, Moribito, K-ON!, Lucky*Star, Haruhi, Lov*Com, 5cm/s, etc --- it would be really hard to take someone seriously who thinks those "all look alike".
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Old 2012-03-16, 22:32   Link #45
Dr. Casey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fanty
If we're talking about absolutely generic sorts of styles, then they all suck, no matter which era they are from.
no you're wrong, anime artwork rules and has always ruled, sorry

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chiibi
And if the term moe existed back then, Galaxy Fraulein Yuna had to be my first moe.
The old myth goes that the term 'moe' came from Sailor Moon S's Hotaru Tomoe, so it's indeed been around since the fairly early '90s if that's the case, but that's probably not true anyway. I've always wondered if Japan liked Gizmo from Gremlins, the little guy's as moe as it gets (And in 1984, too)...

Personally, I enjoy anime artwork of every era; even some of the very early anime like the 1960s Sally the Witch look attractive to me. I think that 1980s artwork gets the job done perfectly well (Not to mention being very charming and nostalgic - as a kid born in the late '80s, I of course have a very soft spot for things of that era), but I don't think it's better than modern anime. Even if I was one of those grumpy 'Moe is the cancer killing the anime industry, it's just lolishit and bishounens blah blah fucking blah, they just don't make anime like they did back in MY day... get on my knee, sonny, and let me tell you about the first time I watched Cowboy Bebop, now THAT'S a real anime...' people, I still doubt very old anime would be my preference because the '90s were damn gorgeous.

Spoiler for space:


I don't tend to think of characters as looking younger than their actual age, or men looking too effeminate, either. The Lucky Star characters look like teenagers to me, just with a cute art style (Wheras a lot of people say they look like elementary schoolers), and I've been hearing 'All anime guys look like girls!' claims since Final Fantasy 7 even though the vast majority of characters have always very plainly looked male to me.

Quote:
But, if you ask which era's characters you like, and limit the discussion to characters in top 25% according to screen time or dialog lines, I would say 1980s in a heartbeat, as 1980s characters were much more complicated and enjoyed much more character growth compared to today. In almost every non-visual aspects, 80s characters were better compared to today's characters. This may be due to the fact that they had to sell those characters without all the visual aids we have now.
I won't agree or disagree with the sentiments (There's certainly truth to what you say, though there still are and probably always will be plenty of good anime characters), though if this is a general trend, I think the fact that the vast majority of anime nowadays is 12-13 episodes as opposed to the 80s' much lengthier series certainly doesn't help.
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Old 2012-03-16, 22:37   Link #46
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Originally Posted by wontaek View Post
Today's character's visual aspects are usually better, but when it comes to non-visual aspects, 80s characters were just as good. If you limit the scope of discussions to top 25% of the characters in screen time or dialog lines, 80s characters were more complicated in their personality, background, skill sets, and most of other non-visual aspects. The big reason for this is due to the fact that in the 80, most series were designed to last a whole year, that is 40+ episodes. Today, we very few series even reach 30 episode, thus today's characters have less time to present more complicated facets to us.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Casey View Post

I don't tend to think of characters as looking younger than their actual age, or men looking too effeminate, either. The Lucky Star characters look like teenagers to me, just with a cute art style (Wheras a lot of people say they look like elementary schoolers), and I've been hearing 'All anime guys look like girls!' claims since Final Fantasy 7 even though the vast majority of characters have always very plainly looked male to me.



I won't agree or disagree with the sentiments (There's certainly truth to what you say, though there still are and probably always will be plenty of good anime characters), though if this is a general trend, I think the fact that the vast majority of anime nowadays is 12-13 episodes as opposed to the 80s' much lengthier series certainly doesn't help.
I already mentioned that part of reason why 80s characters tended to have more character growth and become complex compared to today's character is probably due to that they had the luxury of having more episodes guaranteed for them.
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Old 2012-03-16, 22:40   Link #47
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Ah, I'm sorry, must've missed that somehow.
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Old 2012-03-16, 22:42   Link #48
Vexx
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Originally Posted by Dr. Casey View Post
I don't tend to think of characters as looking younger than their actual age, or men looking too effeminate, either. The Lucky Star characters look like teenagers to me, just with a cute art style (Wheras a lot of people say they look like elementary schoolers), and I've been hearing 'All anime guys look like girls!' claims since Final Fantasy 7 even though the vast majority of characters have always very plainly looked male to me.
Those "lot of people" are clueless ...the L*S characters were drawn in what I call a "bug" style, they resembled cute bugs, but mistaking them for elementary school kids just means they ignored visual cues (the way those same people often mistake adult asian women for "children"). I usually suggested they browse the Western comics and count the many strips with "large heads and small bodies" stylings.

And with the "beautiful guys" ... again its a mistake in visual cues. Look at a manly lean asian guy (samurai, athlete, etc -- Bruce Lee, for example). Those "lots of people" would call him feminine (before they lost consciousness from head trauma ).

I consider this related to the "the way it is in my neighborhood is the way it is around the world" mistake people without a lot of global awareness make.

Quote:
I think the fact that the vast majority of anime nowadays is 12-13 episodes as opposed to the 80s' much lengthier series certainly doesn't help.
I think that has hurt the story lines of anime more than any particular art style.
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Old 2012-03-16, 23:30   Link #49
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The comparison pic for Fist of the North Star vs Clannad is a bit misleading. Something like Toriko or Kaiji would be a more apt comparison.
Spoiler for large image:
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Old 2012-03-16, 23:53   Link #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post

The other thing is that there seems to a greater variety in modern styles (compare Kurozuka, Moribito, K-ON!, Lucky*Star, Haruhi, Lov*Com, 5cm/s, etc --- it would be really hard to take someone seriously who thinks those "all look alike".
I know!!
It really makes me want to smack people who say "they look all the same". NO, THEY DON'T.

Quote:
I still doubt very old anime would be my preference because the '90s were damn gorgeous.
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Yes....they certainly were.
it bugged me when they went off-model but they will always have a special place in my heart.

Quote:
They tend to look like they're headed for the disco for a Beegees marathon.
And soon, it's a possibility it will no longer feel out of place either. Fashion trends of the 80s are actually beginning to creep back here! I was just at Kohl's the other day? They're making GIANT rings and GIANT bracelets again!! And some of the 80s clothes are coming back TOO!
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Old 2012-03-17, 00:56   Link #51
Sheba
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The 1980s never left me. I still sport that mullet when everyone else have that ex-convict hair of the 2000s.
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Old 2012-03-17, 03:02   Link #52
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both are terrible but in different ways. it's really hard to say which one is least bad, but I think in the end I prefer the 80's style, probably because I've had less exposure to it.

Some (rare) manga has good character design, but really, if you like that sort of stuff just go read Belgian/French comics (bandes dessinées if you're feeling like they're a separate ~art form~ like manga apparently is) instead.
edit: and by that I mostly mean things like Blueberry or Thorgal, not really Asterix (even though that, too, has great character designs in its own way).

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Originally Posted by Chiibi View Post
On the contrary, I find this to be a major drawback with Western-style animation. It's too damn predictable. There's such a huge lack of subtly and imagination, you often feel like you're being treated like an idiot... It's far removed from reality and kinda shallow as well. "Evil is always ugly and dark" "Good is always beautiful and bright"?
out of morbid curiosity, I'll have to ask what kind of western comics you have in mind here?
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Last edited by TheFluff; 2012-03-17 at 03:49.
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Old 2012-03-17, 07:13   Link #53
Sheba
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Originally Posted by mecharobot View Post
I don't know, I personally like this:
Spoiler for pic:


over this:
Spoiler for pic:

.
Look man, I know you have reactionary tendencies, anyone who have read your post history would have gotten the clue already. But if you want comparison, AT LEAST, make FAIR comparisons, this means, characters from the SAME fcking genres.

Compare Kenshiro, with any leads of the Big Three of the 2000s, because HnK IS a shounen manga. Compare Tomoya Okazaki to Kyosuke Kasuga from Kimagure Orange Road. And there you can talk. The comparison between the two is a big stretch, but ultimately, Clannad and Orange Road are tales of growth, and I cannot say that, in term of personality, character development and depth, Tomoya Okazaki does that bad unlike what you make it to be. And before you accuse me of anti-1980s bias, I watched BOTH series and Madoka hold a special place in my heart, for starting my love for bishoujos with long dark hair. While Hikaru irritated the shit out of me for getting of the way of my shipping, so I'll take Kyou and Tomoyo over her anytime.

However, Naruto is more comparable to Son Goku than Kenshiro, while Ichigo is more comparable to Yusuke Urameshi. And Luffy is... well, Luffy, perhaps more comparable to pre-Z Son Goku.
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Old 2012-03-17, 10:51   Link #54
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I like both artstyles, myself.

There's just something awesome about the 80s to 90s hand-drawn style that you don't see anymore with CGI and stuff... Especially badasses like Kenshiro from Fist of the North Star, or Yujiro Hanma from Baki the Grappler.

Compare Slayers Season 1 to Slayers Try to Slayers Revolution for a comparison between late 80s/early-90's, mid-90s and modern animation techniques.

As far as I'm concerned, there's nothing wrong with current animation, it can allow for some really smooth battle sequences and effects that weren't present in the 80s. Again, compare Slayers, this time Shabranigdo from Season 1 to the final battle in Evolution R for a direct comparison.

Shows that were made in the late 80s through the early 90s have similar artstyles and aren't too bad.

Of course, I'm of the opinion that as long as the animation is too wooden and the characters aren't just standing around most of the time, it ends up being really good.

It's why I can't go back and rewatch Voltron too much. Great show, lots of nostalgia, but if I watch the animation, I start to groan at it.
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Old 2012-03-17, 11:11   Link #55
Chiibi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFluff View Post
both are terrible but in different ways.
...........seriously, why are you on this forum?




Quote:
out of morbid curiosity, I'll have to ask what kind of western comics you have in mind here?
Not comics, cartoons. In American cartoons, you can always tell who's good and who's evil just by looking at them. Because "cartoons are for kids" and "kids are dumb".

Quote:
Compare Slayers Season 1 to Slayers Try to Slayers Revolution for a comparison between late 80s/early-90's, mid-90s and modern animation techniques.
I was interested to see if the styles were going to be exact. But I prefer the 90s look, believe it or not. XD
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Old 2012-03-17, 11:20   Link #56
Vexx
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Imagine Fluff in a fez, smoking jacket, looking jaded and cynical when you read his posts. Fansubbers tend to sound like that after a few years .
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Old 2012-03-17, 11:30   Link #57
Sheba
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Well, TheFluff have a point, my brothers eventually grew out of anime style drawing because their styles needed to evolve, and being influenced exclusively by anime is NOT the way to be (Edit: I will name the "same face" syndrome that many manga artists suffers from, while westerners tries to make their characters' facial features different). Few manga artists ever meet critical respect from those in art circles, as far as I know, only Hirohiko Araki have had the honor to have his art featured in a french museum. And when that guy got commissioned a comic by the staff of one of the most important museums of France, and the world, you know how much of a big deal it is.

Chiibi, I think that you need to look out more, curiosity and broadening your tastes is not going to kill you. Try to do like some of us does, look at everything and take the best out of everything. Because otherwise, you turn out no better than some of the oldef@gs who thinks that turning back the clock and stop it at their decade of choice is being for the best. I like the 1980s as much as those who grew up in that time period, but no way I gonna trade my broadband internet, android smartphone, easy availability of anime and collection of anime figurines for the possibility to watch my vintage anime at their premieres.

Last edited by Sheba; 2012-03-17 at 12:08.
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Old 2012-03-17, 13:42   Link #58
Bri
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Originally Posted by Chiibi View Post
Over my journeys through many anime forums, I've found people complaining "character designs in the 80s were more attractive boo-hoo where did they goooo!?"

............I really can't agree with that at all. I'm a bishoujo/nen fan and can't really name any 80s anime characters that made me go "Ooh, she's/he's pretty!" On the contrary, they look ugly to me, with the smaller eyes, pudgy faces and thick hair.

I mean, why would an anime watcher prefer this

Spoiler:


Would you chalk up old-school preference to simply nostalgia? Or not? Also, where do you stand and why?
Anime in the 80s used more detailed artwork to hide the lack of movement while in modern anime the use of digital effects and computer coloring requires cleaner simpler artwork. Both are cost cutting measures which influenced the look of anime at the time.

You can prefer the busy, scratchy anime character designs with muted colors of the 80s or the tight clean lined alternatives with intense colors and shading of modern anime, that's just a matter of taste. However that says little about the quality of the character designs.

I'm not sure if the choice is intentional but the original designs of the 80s characters that you showed have been done by Rumiko Takahashi, Yoshikazu Yasuhiko and Haruhiko Mikimoto. They are some of the best mangaka and illustrators who have worked on anime. The pictures you linked are from long running TV series and low budget ova, those don't do their designs any justice. Compare for example more recent anime adaptions of their work. It will make it hopefully more clear why these artists are so well respected among anime fans.

Spoiler for New comparison:


As you can see these 80s designers are more than capable of creating bishoujo/nen using their own styles as well.

In my opinion the general approach to character design hasn't changed that much over time. Sure, the 90s added Shoujo manga influences, as can be seen in the works of the CLAMP-girls, the 2000s added some VN visuals which can be seen in the Da Capo character, but it all remains instantly recognizable as anime. A good design remains a good design no matter when it was done.

Off course there are always people who refuse to watch anything out of their comfort zone whether old or new but that is their loss.
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Old 2012-03-17, 13:56   Link #59
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delete it please. I accidentally posted twice.
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Old 2012-03-17, 13:58   Link #60
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Originally Posted by Chiibi View Post
Sorry but I'll take the "generic" bishounen over an ugly, hairy-eyebrowed dude ANY day.
Badass does not always equal "sexy". Besides if you want "badass AND sexy", there's always:

Spoiler:

no I still prefer that 80s guy over this. He's definitely more sexy than kamina lol... I personally don't like that toppa guerren anime anyway (it's so boring). Like I said, each to his/her own!

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Originally Posted by C.A. View Post
As for whether I prefer 80's or current character designs, I'd say 80's, they have more soul. Character designs now are too manufactured and made to look too pretty over their function.
Yeah I get this vibe too. There are character designs in new anime that aren't don't feel that overly manufactured but most of the time I get that bad vibe.

an anime from the 80s
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