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Old 2012-03-14, 22:57   Link #281
haguruma
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AC-Phoenix View Post
Still soon enough for a desk to be added though.
Adding a Desk is a matter of 10 minutes and they definitely knew he would be there in April, which is when thee introduction scene takes place and Reiko tells him where his school is.
Well, they did add aother desk. As soon as they heard he would be coming Mr. Kubodera, the class representatives and the countermeassure commitee decided that the situation is dire enough to not provide any additional desk but put the non-existant desk into the classroom.
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Old 2012-03-15, 16:00   Link #282
Dengar
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I'm not sure what the significance is of Sakakibara being at the end of the list.

If he's going to transfer in in early april, then the school would definitely have known about it in advance.
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Old 2012-03-15, 16:42   Link #283
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dengar View Post
I'm not sure what the significance is of Sakakibara being at the end of the list.

If he's going to transfer in in early april, then the school would definitely have known about it in advance.
But the list shows that they either didn't know in advance or they forgot to include him on the original roster.
Like I said, the list is in a specific order (though not alphabetical but based on the Japanese Kana-System) and Kouichi's name would have been at No.11 if he had been accounted for when class 3-3 of 1998 was decided upon.

Also he probably wasn't going to transfer in at the start anyway. Let's say he was hospitalized for a week, that'd mean he was checked in around April 20th. Let's say the entrance ceremony was in the first week of April...that would have given him at least 1 1/2 weeks in which he could have gone to school.
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Old 2012-03-17, 06:13   Link #284
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Maybe whatever method they use doesn't auto-sort the list? Say they made the list in february, and kouichi was added at the end of march? There is -no way- that the school didn't know about it in advance. Transfer students don't just drop in at a day's notice.
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Old 2012-03-17, 14:13   Link #285
AC-Phoenix
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They probably used a Word sheet and were too lazy to add the raw in the right place.
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Last edited by AC-Phoenix; 2012-03-20 at 20:59.
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Old 2012-03-17, 15:48   Link #286
Lord of Fire
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It might have to do with the fact that Kouichi was in the hospital when school began. Maybe they just didn't list him till they were sure he had recovered well enough to attend class.
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Old 2012-03-17, 16:12   Link #287
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord of Fire View Post
It might have to do with the fact that Kouichi was in the hospital when school began. Maybe they just didn't list him till they were sure he had recovered well enough to attend class.
Especially considering it's class 3-3 maybe they just wanted to wait it out and see if he died. Had he died while being listed as a classmember it could have created a panic among the students. Or maybe they just wanted to be sure and not put the pressure of "being close to death" on somebody who's already in the hospital.
I think teachers are responsible for the classrosters in Japanese schools and the headmaster only has to pass them...so it'd be possible for them to just wait it out.
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Old 2012-03-18, 12:51   Link #288
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Which all comes down to this:

There can be any number of reasons why Sakakibara is at the bottom of the list. "He wasn't on the list in April yet." is one of the reasons least likely.
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Old 2012-03-19, 10:20   Link #289
don_Durandal
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The biggest mystery here is how can a beautiful woman like Reiko not be married yet?

j/k
Finding the Other is not the only mystery here. There are basically two things that need finding out currently:
- who is the Other?
- how does the phenomenon work?

The first question is self-explanatory. The Second one is a bit more complex as there are multiple things that need to be found out:
- what is the source of the phenomenon?
- why does someone die each month?
- why does it not happen each year?
- why do countermeasures only work half of the time?
- how do you stop it?


Disclaimer: I watched the anime until episode 10. I did not read the novel, and while I read the manga (currently at chapter 15) I consider it void for figuring out the anime.
The spoiler tags cover material shown in the anime from episode 01 to 10 only.

Spoiler for my speculation for the phenomenon:


Now, about the Other:
1) They have to be someone in connection to the class who died previously (this death having been forgotten)
2) As I mentioned in the speculation, I think that the Other has to be someone the class wishes to return/who’s death they didn’t acknowledge.
3) Meta-wise it’s realistic to expect the Other to be part of the A-team and not a redshirt, so that narrows the roster considerably (obviously this info is not available to Kouichi, and I’ll feel really silly if it turns out I’m wrong).
4) The suspects are further narrowed down due to Mei’s revelation in episode 10.

Now the only clue we have to the identity are possible inconsistencies which the phenomenon couldn’t correct. “There’s no reason to alter a fake”.
Spoiler for what I think are inconsistencies:


And finally, here’s my current speculation for who the Other is:
Spoiler for whokickedthebucket?:

Last edited by don_Durandal; 2012-03-19 at 10:50. Reason: Ritsuko's pictures
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Old 2012-03-19, 13:17   Link #290
AC-Phoenix
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Quote:
Originally Posted by don_Durandal View Post
The biggest mystery here is how can a beautiful woman like Reiko not be married yet?

j/k
Finding the Other is not the only mystery here. There are basically two things that need finding out currently:
- who is the Other?
- how does the phenomenon work?

The first question is self-explanatory. The Second one is a bit more complex as there are multiple things that need to be found out:
- what is the source of the phenomenon?
- why does someone die each month?
- why does it not happen each year?
- why do countermeasures only work half of the time?
- how do you stop it?


Disclaimer: I watched the anime until episode 10. I did not read the novel, and while I read the manga (currently at chapter 15) I consider it void for figuring out the anime.
The spoiler tags cover material shown in the anime from episode 01 to 10 only.

Spoiler for my speculation for the phenomenon:


Now, about the Other:
1) They have to be someone in connection to the class who died previously (this death having been forgotten)
2) As I mentioned in the speculation, I think that the Other has to be someone the class wishes to return/who’s death they didn’t acknowledge.
3) Meta-wise it’s realistic to expect the Other to be part of the A-team and not a redshirt, so that narrows the roster considerably (obviously this info is not available to Kouichi, and I’ll feel really silly if it turns out I’m wrong).
4) The suspects are further narrowed down due to Mei’s revelation in episode 10.

Now the only clue we have to the identity are possible inconsistencies which the phenomenon couldn’t correct. “There’s no reason to alter a fake”.
Spoiler for what I think are inconsistencies:


And finally, here’s my current speculation for who the Other is:
Spoiler for whokickedthebucket?:

Spoiler for About your theory how the phenomenon works:
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Sidenote: I'm seemingly too dumb for my current keyboard, so if you see the same character twice in a row, when it doesn't belong there just ignore it.
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Old 2012-03-21, 12:50   Link #291
Voxxen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by don_Durandal View Post
The biggest mystery here is how can a beautiful woman like Reiko not be married yet?

j/k
Finding the Other is not the only mystery here. There are basically two things that need finding out currently:
- who is the Other?
- how does the phenomenon work?

The first question is self-explanatory. The Second one is a bit more complex as there are multiple things that need to be found out:
- what is the source of the phenomenon?
- why does someone die each month?
- why does it not happen each year?
- why do countermeasures only work half of the time?
- how do you stop it?


Disclaimer: I watched the anime until episode 10. I did not read the novel, and while I read the manga (currently at chapter 15) I consider it void for figuring out the anime.
The spoiler tags cover material shown in the anime from episode 01 to 10 only.

Spoiler for my speculation for the phenomenon:


Now, about the Other:
1) They have to be someone in connection to the class who died previously (this death having been forgotten)
2) As I mentioned in the speculation, I think that the Other has to be someone the class wishes to return/who’s death they didn’t acknowledge.
3) Meta-wise it’s realistic to expect the Other to be part of the A-team and not a redshirt, so that narrows the roster considerably (obviously this info is not available to Kouichi, and I’ll feel really silly if it turns out I’m wrong).
4) The suspects are further narrowed down due to Mei’s revelation in episode 10.

Now the only clue we have to the identity are possible inconsistencies which the phenomenon couldn’t correct. “There’s no reason to alter a fake”.
Spoiler for what I think are inconsistencies:


And finally, here’s my current speculation for who the Other is:
Spoiler for whokickedthebucket?:
I've read every post since the start of this thread and if my memory serves correct you have some idea's that have not been lightened on.

Your theory is quite interesting -->
Spoiler for Don_Durandal's Hypothesis:


And as you have stated, due to loss of translation we cannot be sure what is misinterpretation and clue.

It was interesting to go through the clue's from episode 1 to 10 to figure out the Another again...

I can't believe how much time I've dedicated towards this show >.>

But i have an image of who the anime is referring to as the Another, but still confused on the process of the "Phenomena." I'll just have to wait for more clue's.

Now to watch Episode 11 and see what comes of it!
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Old 2012-03-21, 14:42   Link #292
don_Durandal
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Well AC_Phoenix has a very good rebuttal above, and after thinking about it I found more inconsistencies in this part of my speculation. My suspect still stands though.

As a matter of fact Kanon found an important clue here which allows me to modify and reinforce my hypothesis (warning: this might be a major spoiler; I was personally quite disappointed not to have found it myself).


Disclaimer: Don’t read the speculation if you didn’t read Kanon’s clue first, as it might be a major spoiler (I don’t know whether I’m right or not though as I didn’t read the novel, so don’t take my word on it)
Spoiler for Another speculation v2:


There are still plenty of things that need filling in though when it comes to the phenomenon itself:
- 1) Why is it happening?
- 2) Why do people die each month when it’s active?
- 3) Why does it not happen every year?
- 4) Why do countermeasures only work half the time?

Spoiler for phenomenon speculation continued:
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Old 2012-03-21, 16:24   Link #293
AC-Phoenix
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Quote:
Originally Posted by don_Durandal View Post
[....]
Short answer regarding said problems:
EVERY clue was presented until now. - So you can in theory solve those problems with certain episodes.
Whether this will help your theroy afterwards is another thing though.
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Old 2012-03-21, 20:21   Link #294
Voxxen
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Wow...

After watching episode 11 I'm speechless...
I thought that 8 would be the kind of meh, doesn't fit too well episode but this...
They didn't have to go that far... I mean yes, I would be stressed in that situation for sure... If I heard the tape I would want to go through the clues looking for this Another...

But having the entire 3-3 class on a self vindicated, murderous, and psychotic rampage. Isolating Mei as the enemy that must be put back in its place...

Idk... I just did not like the turn out of episode 11... It seemed a concluding plot that they had been building up just turned to smoke... I just can't express the disappointment I got from watching this episode. >.< Its frustrating!

Don't get me wrong, I love gore filled anime's as much as the rest of my generation, induced by blood and murder... (run's hand through hair in frustration)

But I just saw it going a completely different way...
Its as if they just let go of what made this anime so good to beginning with...

Anyone get where I'm coming from?

Last edited by Voxxen; 2012-03-21 at 20:34.
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Old 2012-03-25, 17:16   Link #295
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I wonder if that teacher is Reiko.
Spoiler for Episode 12 Stand by oneself:

Last edited by PzIVf3; 2012-03-25 at 17:57.
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Old 2012-03-27, 13:54   Link #296
Voxxen
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Well, going through episode 1-10 again as AC-Phoenix suggested, I must say it's blatantly obvious and I figured it out...

I think the first person to give evidence to it being Reiko was Skyfall on page 10. Which was a nice observation and deduction.

I still don't see how this calamity and the dead one coincide...

Maybe the natural order being upset or something... Then why would it kill everyone around the dead one, but not the dead one itself... Meh, it's over and I feel that it had its good points and bad...
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Old 2012-03-28, 08:02   Link #297
Dengar
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It's my belief that it's something like, the dead one is something that shouldn't exist. This puts a massive strain on reality, which eventually starts to cause people to die. However, the deaths don't rectify the problem, so the problem persists, so people keep dying, until graduation, when the dead one finally disappears. OR until the dead one disappears prematurely.

Killing the extra is however, a very harsh thing to do, because they look and act like humans, and are themselves unaware, and are themselves not directly responsible for the deaths, but at the same time, there's one thing that's true: They are already dead, and they WILL disappear at graduation and it'd be as if they were never in that class. Killing the extra would merely speed up this process.

Of course, resorting to this unless you are 100% sure that you have the right one is borderline murder. Don't come with stupid theories like "She only has one eye because she came back wrong.". That's just dumb. "The deaths only started when you showed up." can still be coincidence and does not stand on its own.

Forgetting for the moment the supernatural hax ability to see the color of death, the best approach is for the entire class to work together on this and perform thorough investigation on one another. It's evident that not all inconsistencies are erased, such as the fact of a class having an assistant-homeroom teacher when there is no need for such a thing. Granted, what with the perception filter, that's probably pretty hard to notice, but if like 30 or more people think it over very thoroughly there should be SOMEONE who can draw the correct conclusion, right?

It's also best to do this at the start of the year, when not everyone is so emotionally scarred by all the death and destruction. This goes without saying.

Perhaps, if done consistently and effectively over the course of the years, maybe the dead will realise that they aren't welcome anymore and stop popping up.

Last edited by Dengar; 2012-03-28 at 08:13.
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Old 2012-03-28, 18:03   Link #298
Guardian Enzo
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This is how I put it in my blog post: I think of the deaths as nature’s attempt to restore balance when confronted by something outside itself – something quite literally “supernatural”. Nature may abhor a vacuum but it also abhors something that violates its laws, like a dead person among the living. It tries to correct for this by killing someone, but that doesn’t fix the problem – the dead person is still in the living world, so it kills again, and again, and until the imbalance is corrected it won’t stop.

I have a suspicion that the ignoring only works 50% of the time because it actually works 0% of the time - it's something else stopping the phenomenon in those years. Or perhaps it never "activates" at all in those years.
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Old 2012-03-28, 18:13   Link #299
AC-Phoenix
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dengar View Post
It's my belief that it's something like, the dead one is something that shouldn't exist. This puts a massive strain on reality, which eventually starts to cause people to die. However, the deaths don't rectify the problem, so the problem persists, so people keep dying, until graduation, when the dead one finally disappears. OR until the dead one disappears prematurely.

Killing the extra is however, a very harsh thing to do, because they look and act like humans, and are themselves unaware, and are themselves not directly responsible for the deaths, but at the same time, there's one thing that's true: They are already dead, and they WILL disappear at graduation and it'd be as if they were never in that class. Killing the extra would merely speed up this process.

Of course, resorting to this unless you are 100% sure that you have the right one is borderline murder. Don't come with stupid theories like "She only has one eye because she came back wrong.". That's just dumb. "The deaths only started when you showed up." can still be coincidence and does not stand on its own.

Forgetting for the moment the supernatural hax ability to see the color of death, the best approach is for the entire class to work together on this and perform thorough investigation on one another. It's evident that not all inconsistencies are erased, such as the fact of a class having an assistant-homeroom teacher when there is no need for such a thing. Granted, what with the perception filter, that's probably pretty hard to notice, but if like 30 or more people think it over very thoroughly there should be SOMEONE who can draw the correct conclusion, right?

It's also best to do this at the start of the year, when not everyone is so emotionally scarred by all the death and destruction. This goes without saying.

Perhaps, if done consistently and effectively over the course of the years, maybe the dead will realise that they aren't welcome anymore and stop popping up.
Yeah the chance of failure is what makes it cruel, it was especially cruel in this case though as it was not just someone friend but actually substitute mother(-> their actual relationship, was cut in favor of the beach episode, this is exactly what i was talking about in the High School dxd thread when I said unecessary fanservice)
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Sidenote: I'm seemingly too dumb for my current keyboard, so if you see the same character twice in a row, when it doesn't belong there just ignore it.
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Old 2012-03-28, 18:49   Link #300
Goggen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dengar View Post
It's my belief that it's something like, the dead one is something that shouldn't exist. This puts a massive strain on reality, which eventually starts to cause people to die. However, the deaths don't rectify the problem, so the problem persists, so people keep dying, until graduation, when the dead one finally disappears. OR until the dead one disappears prematurely.
That's a good theory. The only thing it doesn't explain is why the deaths have to happen on a regular basis (that is; at least once per month).
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