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Old 2012-03-21, 13:27   Link #2541
mrShady
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
The untold truth is that they ran out of time. Unlike Blizzard or Valve, Bioware doesn't have the means to just push the deadline back when necessary. Signs of a rushed ending production is jarring because it is so different from the rest of the game.

But Bioware will never admit that. They are too big a game company to be allowed to be 100% honest.
I doubt EA would risk that with one of their most populair franchises, but it is possible, we'll never know though.

I just can't understand their total lack of logical thinking when they created this ending. The main selling point for this series has always been that you could continue your story from game 1 to game 3. And by the time the last installment is released have your own unique ending. Obviously they overstated that a bit and there's no way there would be infinite possibilities, however the ending we are left with now is the complete opposite...
Such a shame.

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Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness View Post
I'm pretty sure they'll just release a press detailing the endings and explaining it rather than having to add on new endings and hope for the best.

I mean they've been so adamant in defending the ending and such I'm having a hard time believing they'll budge at all.

Short term? Sure. But long term? People will remember this and they'll end up alienating a lot of people.

At the same time he notes about working on DLC's so I'm not sure why when they've pretty much destroyed the universe (or isolated it). I mean with the stargazer scene it's obvious that space travel has more or less been dampened and it'll take time to rebuild.
Whatever they do now will never undo what has already been released. And with the recent comments from main bioware folks I now highly doubt the indoctrination theory has any merit left.
The only way bioware can fix this if it was all a hoax and they always planned new ending DLC. But adding dlc because they are pressured to will only detract from what's left of the story.
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Old 2012-03-21, 13:48   Link #2542
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Originally Posted by mrShady View Post
I doubt EA would risk that with one of their most populair franchises, but it is possible, we'll never know though.
Mass Effect is NOT EA's main franchise. It is just their Bioware branch's franchise, all EA care abut is making sales targets. And the only way to do that is to release games on time.

You heard the term "It's done when it's done"? That's Blizzard. You heard the term "Valve Time"? That's Valve. This is not normal. Most game companies can't afford to delay game releases at all.

Bioware had to make it right on the release date. This is what happens when you don't work for yourself.

ME3 was released, and it reached sales targets. EA is happy. So what if the ending sucked? The players would have paid for the game already by then. It isn't EA's problem anymore.
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Old 2012-03-21, 14:26   Link #2543
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The more articles on the shitstorm I read, the more I'm convinced that people are just completely missing the point.

The fans are annoyed that the ending is bad, yes. But the bulk of the rage comes from the fact that Bioware lied. They promised to sell us one thing, and then delivered something else, something less than what they advertised. If this was any other product, nobody would be defending Bioware and EA.

If Intel sold you a quad-core CPU that runs at 3.5GHz, and you paid for it, received it, and installed it, then later discovered that it was actually a dual-core CPU running at 2.8GHz, nobody would be defending Intel. Especially if Intel was ignoring customer complaints, and all the tech blogs were calling the recipients whiny entitlement whores who should be happy that Intel deigned to create a CPU for them. That they shouldn't complain that the CPU was less than what they expected and purchased--they should just shut up and deal with it, "grow up" and move on.

So why does the fact that ME3 is a game make the difference?
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Old 2012-03-21, 15:04   Link #2544
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Originally Posted by synaesthetic View Post
So why does the fact that ME3 is a game make the difference?
Because the advertisements purposely hyping the game to unrealistic levels does not equal manufacture/producer responsibility. In other words, your enjoyment of the game does not matter .

Now, you could argue that Bioware intentionally made a shoddy product. Something can be done about that problem. But, if your central argument is merely that you didn't enjoy the game as much as the company promised you would, then you have no real argument (or at least none that could ever result in legal action (which your computer analogy could have)).

That being said, you can voice your outrage easily: simply do not buy any more products from the company in question (and sell you current product for cheap online, purposely denying the company further profit). The only way that Bioware will change is if you leave them.
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Old 2012-03-21, 15:18   Link #2545
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Quote:
Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
Because the advertisements purposely hyping the game to unrealistic levels does not equal manufacture/producer responsibility. In other words, your enjoyment of the game does not matter .

Now, you could argue that Bioware intentionally made a shoddy product. Something can be done about that problem. But, if your central argument is merely that you didn't enjoy the game as much as the company promised you would, then you have no real argument (or at least none that could ever result in legal action (which your computer analogy could have)).

That being said, you can voice your outrage easily: simply do not buy any more products from the company in question (and sell you current product for cheap online, purposely denying the company further profit). The only way that Bioware will change is if you leave them.
No, I'm not mad because the game wasn't fun. The game was fun!

I'm mad because the game is incomplete. It's missing the ending. What Bioware calls "the ending" is not an ending. It doesn't end. It just stops, as if it was released unfinished.

Oh, and I'm already not buying any more of their products. This shitstorm--but more importantly their reactions to it--have convinced me to not spend one more thin dime on anything EA makes, period.
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Old 2012-03-21, 16:16   Link #2546
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Quote:
Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
Because the advertisements purposely hyping the game to unrealistic levels does not equal manufacture/producer responsibility. In other words, your enjoyment of the game does not matter .
Wasn't an advertisement, but a press release. They actually did lie.

Quote:
Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
That being said, you can voice your outrage easily: simply do not buy any more products from the company in question (and sell you current product for cheap online, purposely denying the company further profit). The only way that Bioware will change is if you leave them.
I would be far less angry about this situation if every single gaming website wasn't obviously in EA's pockets.
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Old 2012-03-21, 16:41   Link #2547
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I wish i could delete the ending from my mind, The previous 30 hours were so good. It's amazing how the ending is like a part off a different story.
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Old 2012-03-21, 17:51   Link #2548
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Everyone admits that their experience in Mass Effect 3 was magnificent. The game itself did prove to be the best, but like the earlier video on "Why we hate ME3 ending" said. With this upping the price for Mass Effect 3 on quite a large price (as said by TotalBiscuit), alongside the DLC content that has a Prothean comrade in it. Bioware said that they would make an epic conclusion to this trilogy, while at the same time having multiple different endings.

The fact that they broke this is the main reason people are just furious like synaesthetic said. Also on the fact that the ending itself was rushed, while the main game itself wasn't. You could tell it was rushed since they implanted said "God-Child" and made Shepard accept his fate with the endings just being in different colors. Mass Effect 2 atleast had a Renegade/Paragon ending.
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Old 2012-03-21, 18:32   Link #2549
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It's like the ending of the Ben-To anime

great series, but you can very clearly see that the ending was half assed because they ran out of time
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Old 2012-03-21, 19:16   Link #2550
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Perhaps we should go Renegade and convert the Retake movement into a Firesale movement. Once we make an example of BW, I'm sure even EA might feel a twing. If the gaming industry dies because of that... Too bad, it was going to die anyway.
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Old 2012-03-21, 20:23   Link #2551
Nixl
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Quote:
Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
Because the advertisements purposely hyping the game to unrealistic levels does not equal manufacture/producer responsibility. In other words, your enjoyment of the game does not matter .

Now, you could argue that Bioware intentionally made a shoddy product. Something can be done about that problem. But, if your central argument is merely that you didn't enjoy the game as much as the company promised you would, then you have no real argument (or at least none that could ever result in legal action (which your computer analogy could have)).

That being said, you can voice your outrage easily: simply do not buy any more products from the company in question (and sell you current product for cheap online, purposely denying the company further profit). The only way that Bioware will change is if you leave them.
Actually, Bioware did make a lot of promises about ME3. All the quotes were compiled here,

http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/to...index/10056886

I'll copy/paste the post as well,
Official Mass Effect Website
http://masseffect.com/about/story/

“Experience the beginning, middle, and end of an emotional story unlike any
other, where the decisions you make completely shape your experience
and outcome.”

Interview with Mac Walters (Lead Writer)
http://popwatch.ew.com/2012/02/28/ma...3-mac-walters/

“[The presence of the Rachni] has huge consequences in Mass
Effect 3. Even just in the final battle with the Reapers.”

Interview with Mac Walters (Lead Writer)
http://business.financialpost.com/20...all-audiences/

“I’m always leery of saying there are 'optimal' endings, because I think
one of the things we do try to do is make different endings that are
optimal for different people “

Interview with Mike Gamble (Associate Producer)
http://www.computerandvideogames.com...issing-in-me2/

“And, to be honest, you [the fans] are crafting your Mass Effect story as
much as we are anyway.”

Interview with Mike Gamble (Associate Producer)
http://www.360magazine.co.uk/intervi...erent-endings/

“There are many different endings. We wouldn’t do it any other way. How
could you go through all three campaigns playing as your Shepard and
then be forced into a bespoke ending that everyone gets
? But I can’t
say any more than that…”

Interview with Mike Gamble (Associate Producer)
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/20...e-people-angry

“Every decision you've made will impact how things go. The player's also the
architect of what happens."

“You'll get answers to everything. That was one of the key things. Regardless
of how we did everything, we had to say, yes, we're going to provide
some answers to these people.”

“Because a lot of these plot threads are concluding and because it's being
brought to a finale, since you were a part of architecting how they
got to how they were, you will definitely sense how they close was
because of the decisions you made and because of the decisions you
didn't make”

Interview with Casey Hudson (Director)
http://www.gameinformer.com/b/featur...-effect-3.aspx

“For people who are invested in these characters and the back-story of the
universe and everything, all of these things come to a resolution in
Mass Effect 3. And they are resolved in a way that's very different
based on what you would do in those situations.”

Interview with Casey Hudson (Director)
http://venturebeat.com/2012/03/02/ca...ans-interview/

Fans want to make sure that they see things resolved, they want to get
some closure, a great ending. I think they’re going to get that.”


“Mass Effect 3 is all about answering all the biggest questions in the
lore, learning about the mysteries and the Protheans and the Reapers,
being able to decide for yourself how all of these things come to an
end.”

Interviewer: “So are you guys the creators or the stewards of the franchise?”
Hudson: “Um… You know, at this point, I think we’re co-creators with
the fans. We use a lot of feedback.”

Interview with Casey Hudson (Director)
http://www.gameinformer.com/b/featur...ostPageIndex=2

Interviewer: [Regarding the numerous possible endings of Mass Effect 2] “Is that
same type of complexity built into the ending of Mass Effect 3?”
Hudson: “Yeah, and I’d say much more so, because we have the ability to
build the endings out in a way that we don’t have to worry about
eventually tying them back together somewhere. This story arc is
coming to an end with this game. That means the endings can be a lot
more different.
At this point we’re taking into account so many
decisions that you’ve made as a player and reflecting a lot of that
stuff. It’s not even in any way like the traditional game endings,
where you can say how many endings there are or whether you got
ending A, B, or C.....
The endings have a lot more sophistication and
variety in them.”

“We have a rule in our franchise that there is no canon. You as a player
decide what your story is.”


EDIT: Couple more interesting quotes I found, enjoy......or not.


Mike Gamble (Associate Producer)
http://www.nowgamer.com/news/1027650...n_bioware.html

Mass Effect 3 will shake up the player's moral choices more than ever
before, even going so far as allowing the Reapers to win the battle
for Earth, according to BioWare's community representative Mike
Gamble.


In an inteview with NowGamer at Gamescom, we asked if BioWare was taking risks with Mass Effect 3's
plot, including a negative ending in which the Reapers win. Gamble simply said, "Yes". We asked him again to confirm what he had just said and he said, "Yes".


Mike Gamble (Associate Producer)
http://www.nowgamer.com/features/122...y_details.html


"Of course you don’t have to play multiplayer, you can choose to play
all the side-quests in single-player and do all that stuff you’ll
still get all the same endings and same information, it’s just a
totally different way of playing"


Casey Hudson (Director)
http://gamescatalyst.com/2012/03/cas...ctive-stories/

“The whole idea of Mass Effect3 is resolving all of the biggest questions, about the Protheons and
the Reapers, and being in the driver's seat to end the galaxy and all
of these big plot lines, to decide what civilizations are going to
live or die: All of these things are answered in Mass Effect 3.”

Casey Hudson (Director)
http://www.computerandvideogames.com...y-good/?page=2

“There is a huge set of consequences that start stacking up as you approach the end-game. And
even in terms of the ending itself, it continues to break down to
some very large decisions. So it's not like a classic game ending
where everything is linear and you make a choice between a few things
- it really does layer in many, many different choices, up to the
final moments, where it's going to be different for everyone who
plays it.”

Ray Muzyka (Co-Founder of Bioware)
http://penny-arcade.com/report/edito...ng-a-trilogy-a

“I just finished an end to end playthrough, for me the ending was the
most satisfying of any game I’ve ever played….the decisions you make in
this game are epic,”

“The team has been planning
for this for years, since the beginning of the Mass Effect franchise.
Largely the same team, most of the same leads have worked on this for
years and years. They’ve thought about [the ending] for years and years.
It’s not something they’ve had to solve in a week or a month even, but
over the course of five or ten years.”



edit All I can say is lol, they were rushed.
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Old 2012-03-22, 04:16   Link #2552
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Similar to promises that president candidates make during their election campaign and then do nearly nothing that was promised.

Moving aside the ending discussions.
What were your favourite moments in all the trilogy (including DLC)?
Mine were:

1) Riding Mako in snow Noveria from ME 1
2)Punching the Shadow Broker in ME 2 DLC
3) Legion conversations
maybe some other things but I don't really remember
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Old 2012-03-22, 05:11   Link #2553
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My favorite moments:

Punching the reporter in ME1.
Punching the reporter again in ME2.
Headbutting the reporter in ME3.

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Old 2012-03-22, 05:53   Link #2554
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Originally Posted by synaesthetic View Post
Liara and Javik are the best squadmates gameplay-wise, but I roll Liara and Garrus because that was my ownage squad in ME1.
Same Same, Garrus by far was Shepards best friend throughout the series they were together for everything. Liara's biotics always owned all organics plus she was my LI so yeah best time all the way through.

For me the ME2 characters whose story was integrated with the main story was my favourite, Mordin and Thane in particular was extremely well written which made the ending look like crap.
Spoiler for Mordin:


Thane kicking Kai Leng was by fun the most epic combat cutscene in the game and was such a touching death. Terminally Ill drell's kick way too much ass.
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Old 2012-03-22, 10:05   Link #2555
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I found the Renegade interrupt when dealing with Kai Leng far more epic, myself. It felt good.
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Old 2012-03-22, 10:15   Link #2556
mrShady
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Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
Mass Effect is NOT EA's main franchise. It is just their Bioware branch's franchise, all EA care abut is making sales targets. And the only way to do that is to release games on time.

You heard the term "It's done when it's done"? That's Blizzard. You heard the term "Valve Time"? That's Valve. This is not normal. Most game companies can't afford to delay game releases at all.

Bioware had to make it right on the release date. This is what happens when you don't work for yourself.

ME3 was released, and it reached sales targets. EA is happy. So what if the ending sucked? The players would have paid for the game already by then. It isn't EA's problem anymore.
I never said it was their main franchise just one of their most popular series.

Even if they are rushed that doesn't mean they can take back official guarantees of what will be in the game. You can't just falsely advertise and get away with it. You can't say one thing and do another.
Like the quotes from Nixl They promised us loads of stuff and in the end skimped on it. Whoever fault it is we as a customer then have the right to ask for our money back.
And what do you think happens to ea's profit when mass effect 3 players get refunded... Not even mentioning possible lawsuits.
There's no way EA can let this slide. The bad publicity is enough of a problem for them.
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Old 2012-03-22, 11:26   Link #2557
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This is actually kinda nice.

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Old 2012-03-22, 11:29   Link #2558
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What the? Why is Miranda carrying a Krogan?

On that matter I still cannot understand why they couldn't have something like that. Would it have killed ME to have art like that as the epilogue?
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Old 2012-03-22, 12:02   Link #2559
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Yay fem shep, why wasn't that a suprise to me? and calm down, its obviously a plushie.

Anyways

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Old 2012-03-22, 14:41   Link #2560
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Quote:
Originally Posted by synaesthetic View Post
My favorite moments:

Punching the reporter in ME1.
Punching the reporter again in ME2.
Headbutting the reporter in ME3.

Even though the paragon conclusion is reasonable. It's nice to see the reporter actually dodging the first punch this time..
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