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Old 2012-03-27, 08:00   Link #81
miketyson
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LoP: I'll kindly point out that Zen made a very, very strong statement that the form that you can see with your eyes isn't what's important. He might've only been talking about himself and Mykage, but I'm taking it as a hint -- or a warning? -- that any and all visual/physical similarities to original series characters are potential fake-outs of some kind or other.

Speculation:
Spoiler for Zen/Touma Speculation:
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Old 2012-03-27, 08:07   Link #82
LastOrder
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But right now, Mikono isn't even returning Kagura's feelings. In fact, she's more terrified than ever.

When Kagura called her Sylvie, she was all like "wtf" face.

If Mikono doesn't return Kagura's feelings, that would be pretty tragic in itself, for Kagura. He would probably be broken/destroyed over it, and go out in an all out rage or something of the sort.

Also, could it be possible that her family has descended from the De Alisia family line? Taking into consideration that back in the OS they were the only family that were made up of elemental users, and now Mikono's family line is pretty much the same?

But, this is probably a far fetched theory of mine.
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Old 2012-03-27, 08:23   Link #83
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Spoiler for Zen/Touma Feel Good:
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Old 2012-03-27, 08:26   Link #84
wisteria233
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LastOrder View Post
But right now, Mikono isn't even returning Kagura's feelings. In fact, she's more terrified than ever.

When Kagura called her Sylvie, she was all like "wtf" face.

If Mikono doesn't return Kagura's feelings, that would be pretty tragic in itself, for Kagura. He would probably be broken/destroyed over it, and go out in an all out rage or something of the sort.

Also, could it be possible that her family has descended from the De Alisia family line? Taking into consideration that back in the OS they were the only family that were made up of elemental users, and now Mikono's family line is pretty much the same?

But, this is probably a far fetched theory of mine.
wasn't Sirius and Silvia the last of their line? So I think that the chances of Silvia having a child to be slim to none, unless she had a loveless marriage.

One thing is sure, love does not make Aquarion go insane, it makes it stronger, since Jin was in love and it only upgraded Gepard.
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Old 2012-03-27, 08:48   Link #85
pingva
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miketyson View Post
LoP: I'll kindly point out that Zen made a very, very strong statement that the form that you can see with your eyes isn't what's important. He might've only been talking about himself and Mykage, but I'm taking it as a hint -- or a warning? -- that any and all visual/physical similarities to original series characters are potential fake-outs of some kind or other.

Speculation:
Spoiler for Zen/Touma Speculation:
about this
Spoiler:

Last edited by pingva; 2012-03-27 at 16:41.
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Old 2012-03-27, 09:00   Link #86
wisteria233
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Originally Posted by pingva View Post
about this
Spoiler:
actually no, Toma didn't just love Apollonius's wings of the sun, he wanted ALL of Apollonius, which included Apollo AND the wings of the sun, which was why he pinned Apollo in Solar Aquarion so that he couldn't move. Therefore giving Toma all of Apollonius.
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Old 2012-03-27, 10:30   Link #87
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Originally Posted by wisteria233 View Post
actually no, Toma didn't just love Apollonius's wings of the sun, he wanted ALL of Apollonius, which included Apollo AND the wings of the sun, which was why he pinned Apollo in Solar Aquarion so that he couldn't move. Therefore giving Toma all of Apollonius.
I might need to watch again or I'm just insensitive to the romance part in anime.
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Old 2012-03-27, 12:18   Link #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LastOrder View Post
But right now, Mikono isn't even returning Kagura's feelings. In fact, she's more terrified than ever.

When Kagura called her Sylvie, she was all like "wtf" face.
Did you miss this reaction?



Blush (including Shushu) and how her heart hurts. Those incomprehensible chest pains are not a sign of fear.

Her body and subconscious seems to be recognizing him (that or someone else is transmitting it like her cat: her connect power can be a huge troll). Of course she's consciously afraid (Sylvia was freaked out at her own feelings too when she started to awake her memories), since her encounters with Kagura haven't been the most ideal.

I'll withhold my judgment until they meet in less unfavorable circumstances.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wisteria233 View Post
wasn't Sirius and Silvia the last of their line? So I think that the chances of Silvia having a child to be slim to none, unless she had a loveless marriage.
Artificial insemination?
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Old 2012-03-27, 12:35   Link #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theflyingturkey View Post
@pandemonium
Wait, you were shipping for Kagura x Mikono because of Apollo and Silvia?

You didn't know?
Spoiler for The answer if you care:


BUT...I broke my own heart after I wrote that last post, because I remembered that Kawamori is a TROLL and Touma/Mikage is the Aizen just as planned Sousuke and Fudo is Urahara I'm really not that different from Aizen, you know Kisuke of Aquarion They both have the same goal, they just go about it differently but in the end, they know people will be hurt or die and still do it.

Which means that episode 13 has forced me to admit that there is now an equal chance that me and anyone who thinks Kagura is really Apollon is getting trolled. So now I have two scenerious and one will break my heart....I swear to god, this the last time, I let Kawamori play with my emotions and I will just refrain from loving any character or ship, and just watch the damn show, because he will just stab methe chest, rip my heart out and stab it with rusty fork, before setting on fire all while giggling his ass off about how he sank my ship and killed off all the characters I truly loved. Because I was a fool to believe in him, so I deserved it!..anyway, so I deiced it's not worth the pain and mental anguish anymore ... I refuse to let him hurt me anymore.

My new theories...after some considerable thought and minimal shipping bias (I'd be lying if I said I totally left my shipper bias out)

Because .....
  1. Mykage is manipulative and he only cares about Apollonious and he will use anyone and anything because everyone else is expendable to him and he would mindrape Kagura into thinking he's Apollon when he's really Moroha the "one-eyed-monster"
  2. Because he was there so he would remember the love and he hated both of them would want to kill them.
  3. And Mykage could just be feigning ignorance because he's a lot like Aizen and he's manipulative and he uses contrivances to get people to do what he wants. So he might have decided to pretend he didn't know who Apollonious was....and Amata could be him all along and he could be trolling the OS fans, since Newer fans won't have a clue

BUT..and I am not denying that it could be because of my shipper dreams --that doesn't quite make sense.
  1. If that were the case, then surely Kagura would have had more time with her and more people would be convinced he was Apollon, BUT it wouldn't be as much of a mindscrew, if he did that because it's the reveal , that he wasn't Apollon that would blow your mind. Again...I am fully aware that this could more of a case of "wishful thinking"....
  2. When I think about all the times that Kagura and Mikono met and the effect he's had on her. I can't believe it's not real,because they haven't spent more time together for him to be on her mind.
  3. In episode 6...When Kagura loses, it hurts her. In episode six, she told Cayenne as she watched his retreating ship, that she doesn't know but it HURTS because she doesn't know. Her reaction when he licked her and came after her--had him on her mind and all she thought about was how she wanted to know more about him.
  4. Whenever he's crying out for her, she reacts and Shu Shu may shake when she does, but he never ever attacks Kagura. Love is forbidden, right? Yet Shu Shu, only acts independent and help to enforce this rule, when it looks like Amata is trying to put the moves on Mikono. I say it jokingly but I really find that noteworthy...he's obviously some kind of empath so he knows how she feels, yet he's clearly an Anti-Amata and Mikono shipper...
  5. Then this time she saw Amata before she saw Kagura. That and Kagura saying he doesn't really exist...makes me think that one of Silvia's element power is to also "create life" or end it and that's why the force of their love is so destructive
  6. She created Sirius. What if Amata is something--someone that she created...because a part of her wished to recreated the relationship with Apollon, although a part of her wish to forget it because, in both the OS and OVA they realized how much pain and suffering they caused...and that's why it's a love that brings great hope and great sorrow...
  7. Because Touma the creepy, yandere stalker and he will never give up...so repeat and rinse...every 12,000 they meet, fall in love and are only together for a short time, but in doing so...they have to sacrifice everyone. That's why Mikono bickers with Amata and a few moments...like episode five when she said she felt like she knew him for a long time happened. Because every time she tries to recreate that moment with Amata---Kagura comes because it's he she's in love with and Amata is some kind of normal human facsimile....
  8. OR He was made by Apollon, who's memories are fragmented and he created Amata as vessel because he wanted to be near her no matter what. No matter how they knew it would hurt people they love over and over again. They yearn for each other. No way Kawamori is going to end that love on a build-up to say...screw destiny and give her to someone else. If anything they will over come the destiny that says, their love will destroy more than than they save...and will finally be allowed to live

"Happily Ever After"...but this is Kawamori's baby so I doubt it.


I dunno know....but I just don't believe that Amata is Apollon...maybe a wing, but I dunno he's too much like Sylvia so I have a hard time believing it. I can only see Mikono and Kagura as my beloved pairing...not even Amata and Zessica or Kagura and Zessica. They don't fit, imo....if they weren't characters that were reincarnations of the ones from OS, then it would be different.

*Shrugs*


Quote:
Originally Posted by theflyingturkey View Post
My reason for zen keeping Kagura and Mikono apart is simply because, Kagura's getting manipulated by Mikage right now.
He'll probably let them get together once Kagura does a Heel Face Turn.
Zen wouldn't keep them apart. If anything he would manipulate them into getting together and wouldn't say anything. He is a guide but he doesn't interfere...why should he. He wants to awaken Aquarion too. It's always been his goal, same as Touma's. He just have different reasons for wanting to but the method he uses is nearly the same. They're not so different

Quote:
Originally Posted by theflyingturkey View Post

So if Amata=Silvia and Kagura=Apollo...
WHO'S TOP AND WHO'S BOTTOM?!
Watch episode 11 and see both Mikono and Amata in angst over Kagura. Zessica in angst over Amata, who likes Mikono, while she just saw her with another man. Kagura's clearly THE TOP, no matter which one he chooses. (They're all GIRLS ) How could you even ask that?

Quote:
Originally Posted by miketyson View Post
LoP: I'll kindly point out that Zen made a very, very strong statement that the form that you can see with your eyes isn't what's important. He might've only been talking about himself and Mykage, but I'm taking it as a hint -- or a warning? -- that any and all visual/physical similarities to original series characters are potential fake-outs of some kind or other.
Exactly. That's why, I don't think he's Fudo just because he looks like Fudo. It's an illusion chaining you to the past

Mykage Killed Jin, I have never ever seen Fudo kill anyone. He's Crea or he's not but Touma is Mykage, not Fudo. He said that Touma was still bound to his form, while he was not. He didn't deny having a real body. He merely said, the vessel is unimportant but he noticed that Touma still had his. They spoke of Apollonious, not Apollon...therefore it was established that Touma is the same yandere stalker of Apollonious no matter what he looks like. He's a girly-man with wings in his hair, rose petals and decidedly gay for a certain guy. It's Touma. Art evolution? Yes. Does Mykage really look much different from Touma? NO. Which also applies to Amata and Kagura because one of them could be a FAKE

Last edited by Lord of Pandemonium; 2012-03-27 at 13:17. Reason: added something else
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Old 2012-03-27, 13:06   Link #90
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some brilliant mind somewhere brought up the fact that Kagura power is reverse and that EVOL is the reverse of LOVE. So great things can be expected of Kagura gattaing.

I don't feel like reading the whole thread. I hope no one came with it yet.
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Old 2012-03-27, 13:13   Link #91
Lord of Pandemonium
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zuul View Post
some brilliant mind somewhere brought up the fact that Kagura power is reverse and that EVOL is the reverse of LOVE. So great things can be expected of Kagura gattaing.

I don't feel like reading the whole thread. I hope no one came with it yet.
Exactly my thoughts! "Love turns into hate"

Somehow, Kagura's role has been reversed but he's still the same person.


It made perfect sense once 13 aired, even if it's an assumption. A guy I will call "Odin" and I remarked on the play on words when Evol was first announced. Now it all makes sense and the "forbidden gattai" that could destroy the world....it's like and alternate retailing of Celiane and Apollonious' story...at least it is imo

@ Iron Mike....I would like to add, that Kagura being a fake and some nutjob can also be "an illusion" Amata being Apollon can also be an illusion, in this case it doesn't imply that Kagura is the fake... It could be either one. At the same time, most of you hate him and think he's a creepy stalker imposter...look beyond the surface. He's not what he seems to be--at this point I feel like they're telling you it could go either way and don't be so sure that Amata is it...Especially since Kagura is saying hate, when just looking at my avatar says ...SHOUJO MOMENT ..and EVOL is love backwards, and Love turns into hate and his power is to "Reverse" things and he is the most powerful thing in the show..he doesn't have memory of it so as right now he's weak-- and being that his memories are incomplete, he could have done something to screw it up ...actually the OVA ending seems to play a factor from my POV..both Apollo and Sylvia memories were screwed and they wiped out everything and it's said outright that they changed a Parallel universe. I think they put it back ...wrong when they reassembled everything--oh wait. Reika/Scorpius' memories were also screwed and he/she helped too.

I really think they made a boo-boo and well.......welcome to EVOL.

Last edited by Lord of Pandemonium; 2012-03-27 at 13:30. Reason: Read it now, makes more sense
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Old 2012-03-27, 13:47   Link #92
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I'm more inbetween in regards to KaguraXMikono and AmataXMikono. >.>. I've had a hard time chosing between them since episode 1. :P But in my opinion, this episode sorta damaged the KaguraXMikono ship rather than supported it. This episode really put him in a bad light. Although I found Kagura's happy face and dancing rather hilarious, he took a sharp turn in the wrong direction soon after. Starting when he threatened to kill Amata for no reason and with no hesitation right infront of her even though she was begging him to stop. Mikono now sees that Kagura is more dangerous than he first appeared to be. She doesn't see him as the "lonely dog who just needs company" anymore. She sees him as the " bad wolf who's fully capable of killing people". This may change later on when they finally get some much deserved alone time, but as of now there's a huge gap between them.

Looking at the preview it seems that Jin is not the only one who died during Kagura's attack. Was it because of Kagura? If so, wouldn't Mikono feel guilty because she knows that Kagura was after her? I could see her deflecting because she doesn't want anyone else to die because of her, especially Amata, who almost got the blood flow in his body reversed because of her. I think that this encounter with Kagura will affect her alot, and not in a good way. :/ Expect angst. Lots and lots of angst.

On to Shu-Shu, I think Shu-Shu just reflects Mikono's emotions instead of the other way around since this has happened before. Episode 3, Amata apologizes to Mikono by pulling a dogeza in Aquarion. Mikono accepts his apology, as shown by Shu-Shu here:

Spoiler for Big picture, Picture is big:


Although it hasn't happened in a while. Shu-Shu did react violently to Kagura's presence in episode 6(or 5), so it's not just Amata. If Shu-Shu gains any plot importance and isn't just Mikono's cute head pet anymore, I swear he will be up there with Mykage on my hate list.
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Old 2012-03-27, 14:13   Link #93
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Lord of Pandemonium: the exact nature of the relationship between Mykage and "that form" wasn't clear. I don't know what the subs put for it, but just going *literally* it should've been something pretty close to "Even now you haven't discarded that form" (I went and checked for you)...it doesn't say it *isn't* his old/original form, but it doesn't say it *is*, either...and under ordinary circumstances I'd say the safest bet is Mykage's original form, but with a series this trollish I'm not going to jump to any conclusions so quickly.

Likewise I'm not sure what the subs had for Appollonius, but the way Mykage talks about Apollonius is very open-ended. When he talks about Appollonius what he said was analogous to saying: "Apollonius, *the* lover from 24000 years ago" (note: not "your" or "my"). To me it sounded less like he was talking about himself and more like he was trying to get Zen angry...and that's how I started to find myself in the "Zen is Touma in disguise" faction.

So that's my story and I'm sticking to it until better evidence comes in. I have no clue who Mykage is -- at all! -- but as long as I'm in the "Zen is Touma in disguise camp" I'm going to be thinking Mykage is anyone but Touma. So let's agree to disagree and wait for more information on him, I guess.

In terms of real versus fake and so on: I have an open mind (I'm on team pro-fabulous, anti-emo more than a specific ship...). Clearly we've been warned that some things are not as they seem on the surface -- though did we really need that warning, I wonder, ? -- but on the other hand everything can't be backwards, and some things have to be more or less what they appear to be.

Zen's use of an hourglass when talking about time made a lot of sense. When you flip it over it counts out the same interval of time but things are running "backwards"...so we'll see. But this is why my first reaction to episode 13 was that it was going to force a lot of theory reevaluation; there's now a lot more that's up in the air than we were thinking.


queenSwild:
Quote:
Originally Posted by queenSwild View Post
On to Shu-Shu, I think Shu-Shu just reflects Mikono's emotions instead of the other way around since this has happened before. Episode 3, Amata apologizes to Mikono by pulling a dogeza in Aquarion. Mikono accepts his apology, as shown by Shu-Shu here:

Spoiler for Big picture, Picture is big:


Although it hasn't happened in a while. Shu-Shu did react violently to Kagura's presence in episode 6(or 5), so it's not just Amata. If Shu-Shu gains any plot importance and isn't just Mikono's cute head pet anymore, I swear he will be up there with Mykage on my hate list.
I find Shu-Shu hard to understand. It also acted really happy when Cayenne rescued her this week. No clue if it's watching over Mikono, reflecting her true inner state, has its own independent thoughts, or is just in the show for the humor value.

Last edited by miketyson; 2012-03-27 at 14:15. Reason: response to queensSwild
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Old 2012-03-27, 14:15   Link #94
Thess
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Guys: do you think the ending credits foreshadow something?

As far as couple goes (in the first half), it nicely pairs up:

Amata-Mikono.
Cayenne-Shrade.
MIX-Andy.
Book of Genesis-Zessica.*
Yunoha-Jin.
Kagura-Aquarion.*

"The story ends before it could even begin" showing our loli Juliet and underage Romeo.

*Those two characters don't have a ED couple-set, but look they are the ones who had actual visions of the past in the duration of this first cour, they are the ones paired with something that links them to the legend.

Quote:
Originally Posted by miketyson View Post
Likewise I'm not sure what the subs had for Appollonius, but the way Mykage talks about Apollonius is very open-ended. When he talks about Appollonius what he said was analogous to saying: "Apollonius, *the* lover from 24000 years ago" (note: not "your" or "my"). To me it sounded less like he was talking about himself and more like he was trying to get Zen angry...and that's how I started to find myself in the "Zen is Touma in disguise" faction.

So that's my story and I'm sticking to it until better evidence comes in. I have no clue who Mykage is -- at all! -- but as long as I'm in the "Zen is Touma in disguise camp" I'm going to be thinking Mykage is anyone but Touma. So let's agree to disagree and wait for more information on him, I guess.
Yes, I can't imagine Touma speaking of that love with that playful tone if he was still butthurt as Mykage. While Zen was pokerfacing. Mykage seems to be just a Shadow Angel wanting the power of the Wings of Sun who trolls everyone, rather than Touma whose trolling was focused on two people in particular.

It also wouldn't make sense for Gen to try to keep the destined lovers apart and express distaste for the 'red string of fate' as he did in this episode. I don't know... It doesn't really sound like Gen to me...
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Old 2012-03-27, 14:34   Link #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thess View Post
Guys: do you think the ending credits foreshadow something?

As far as couple goes (in the first half), it nicely pairs up:

Amata-Mikono.
Cayenne-Shrade.
MIX-Andy.
Book of Genesis-Zessica.*
Yunoha-Jin.
Kagura-Aquarion.*

"The story ends before it could even begin" showing our loli Juliet and underage Romeo.

*Those two characters don't have a ED couple-set, but look they are the ones who had actual visions of the past in the duration of this first cour, they are the ones paired with something that links them to the legend.
Interesting find. I didn't notice the couple sets, although I've always found it weird how Zessica's picture was so far away from the main duo(Amata&Mikono). :/ Guess there is a reason for that.
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Old 2012-03-27, 14:37   Link #96
miketyson
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I just had one more little a-ha then I swear I'm done for awhile, .

So Gepart evolves when it has pilots from both worlds in it. I'd guess we'll the other two evolve at some point, which'd need two more pilots from Altair. For EVOL I think it's obviously going to be Kagura (giving us Aquarion LOVE!, woot!), but that leaves Spada up in the air. I'll be pulling for Izumo + Alisia + someone from Vega (Amata? Family Gattai, Go!...but even after Yunoha's gattai I'm not sure that Kawamori's ballsy enough for that one...).
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Old 2012-03-27, 14:45   Link #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miketyson View Post
I just had one more little a-ha then I swear I'm done for awhile, .

So Gepart evolves when it has pilots from both worlds in it. I'd guess we'll the other two evolve at some point, which'd need two more pilots from Altair. For EVOL I think it's obviously going to be Kagura (giving us Aquarion LOVE!, woot!), but that leaves Spada up in the air. I'll be pulling for Izumo + Alisia + someone from Vega (Amata? Family Gattai, Go!...but even after Yunoha's gattai I'm not sure that Kawamori's ballsy enough for that one...).
Aquarion evolves through love. Jin was feeling quite a bit of it towards Yunoha and Aquarion answered his love evolving and giving him the power he needed. It didn't have to do with him being from Altair. Unfortunately Mikage also answered the call of his love...
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Old 2012-03-27, 14:48   Link #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thess View Post
Guys: do you think the ending credits foreshadow something?

As far as couple goes (in the first half), it nicely pairs up:

Amata-Mikono.
Cayenne-Shrade.
MIX-Andy.
Book of Genesis-Zessica.*
Yunoha-Jin
Kagura-Aquarion*
..
I think the one with kagura and aquarion replacement is mikage cause mikage is after the aquarion. The book of genesis though i don't really know anyone who fits. I would think the one who can read the book would be placed there. It might be bit crackish but what if its fudo? Its not like fudo and zessica are a pair or anything but like fudo-rena, u know? It could be shu shu or a new character to be revealed.

The lines when the book and zessica appear is something along the lines of - "i will never forget some one like you" and "your flare reaches the moon" kinda like zessica's missle shooting in OP.
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Old 2012-03-27, 14:49   Link #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by queenSwild View Post
Interesting find. I didn't notice the couple sets, although I've always found it weird how Zessica's picture was so far away from the main duo(Amata&Mikono). :/ Guess there is a reason for that.
It could be because of the lyrics (same with Yunoha and Jin). See above.

Has anyone linked this before?

@mayumi: maybe or maybe Apollonius would take that Aquarion bookmark and Celiane the Book of Genesis one.
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Old 2012-03-27, 15:44   Link #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thess View Post
Guys: do you think the ending credits foreshadow something?

As far as couple goes (in the first half), it nicely pairs up:

Amata-Mikono.
Cayenne-Shrade.
MIX-Andy.
Book of Genesis-Zessica.*
Yunoha-Jin.
Kagura-Aquarion.*

"The story ends before it could even begin" showing our loli Juliet and underage Romeo.

*Those two characters don't have a ED couple-set, but look they are the ones who had actual visions of the past in the duration of this first cour, they are the ones paired with something that links them to the legend.
The ED begins and ends on Aquarion EVOL; Amata is preceded by the blank page of Aquarion EVOL and Kagura is followed by the close up of Aquarion EVOL. So if we follow that methodology, it gets really odd and the whole ordering of pairs goes out the window:

Aquarion-Amata
...
Kagura-Aquarion.

That said, the lyrics do really overlap really nicely for Jin and Yunoha, but the others are really a toss up... though all of them are really gloomy.
Amata and Mikono will never be able to return... to where, each other? (See Cayenne's.)
Mikono will gain the strength to face hardship? (In a way this has happened.)
Is Cayenne going to lose his heart? (Mikono?)
Shrade is going to fail to protect his friends? (I guess he already did in a way...)
Mix or Andy is going to disappear into the sky? (Depressing thought...)
Zessica cannot forget someone or can someone not forget Zessica, is she going to die in a blaze of glory? (Oy!)
*skip Jin and Yunoha*
Kagura is going to sing the tune locked away inside until he destroys himself? (Not... to surprising.)

That or we're just looking too far into this because of one coincidental overlap.
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