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Old 2012-03-27, 20:40   Link #121
Vena
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Originally Posted by TurquoiseThyme View Post
<snip>
Shrade seems like Sirius to me.
Its certainly not impossible but Sirius was the dark side of Celianne and, by the end of the series, the problems (his and Celianne's dark side) were effectively solved. The whole reason Celianne's dark side was reincarnated was regret and the sort, unfinished business so to speak. Sirius, in the story, solves all of his issues and dies as the hero he'd always wanted to be (and believed he was until meeting Apollo). I feel like, at some point, people need to stop reincarnating and when you're past grievances are sorted out would seem like the best time to do it.

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Originally Posted by TurquoiseThyme View Post
Vena: If Kagura is the only part of Apollo reincarnated that loved Sylvia, who else is a reincarnation of Apollo? Maybe Zessica? When Mykage sent a vision to Apollo, he got both parts?
There doesn't need to be another reincarnation. The way I am looking at it is that Apollo himself had two aspects to his soul: the modern aspect (the one that existed in the OS) and the past aspect that was known as Apollonius. They share a soul but their identities are still somewhat unique. The Apollonius part of him would have, effectively, at the end of the original story been with an aspect of Celianne as well as himself, therefore at peace and whole. The remainder of Apollo(nius) that loved Sylvia (the other part of Celianne) was left wanting and wandering until reborn, similarly Sylvia was reborn and looking for Apollo.

This is what I meant, that the part of Apollo that was left that still wanted to be with Sylvia is what reincarnated. The rest remained dead and buried because it was, in one way or another, satisfied.

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Originally Posted by Thess View Post
They were carnations? I forgot how they looked like, I have a picture of the petals, so I assumed they were roses. LOL.
Carnations and roses in animation are hard to differentiate and, as such, I said it was a baseless assumption. The meanings change if they are indeed roses: White is purity, black is death. But that was just a completely off the wall aside to just play around with that whole *reverse* power.

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Originally Posted by Thess View Post
This is a good point. Maybe Amata has the Wings of Sun too, but he isn't Apollonius reincarnation (that is Kagura), but like the Wings, he as descendant is the fruit of that love that has lasted 24.000 years. Who better to be a protagonist?

If Mikono is Sylvia, then is natural that he wants to protect her and he could mistake that for romantic love (seeing that they aren't actually in love so far).
Wouldn't it be ironic? He gets attracted to her because she's like his mom... even to the point of being the reincarnated form of the thing his mom played in her movie. (And could, in a strange distant way, be his great-x120-great grandmother's soul.)

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Originally Posted by mayumi View Post
the book before zessica in ED, it is the exact same book of genesis. look at rena holding it
Spoiler:
Good call, I had completely forgotten what the original looked like.

I still find it odd that they threw that book in the middle of the gattai... and, in a way, in the middle of the ED too. The first it separates Mikono from Amata and Zessica, the second time it separates Zessica and Yunoha from the rest of the group. I think they just threw it in to troll us... >.>
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Old 2012-03-27, 20:57   Link #122
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Is the Book of Genesis important to the original SA anyway? All I remember is that Rena read a couple of lines from the book which didn't affect the story in significant ways.
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Old 2012-03-27, 21:13   Link #123
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@Vena

I liked your call about amata's having a blank slate before he shows up in the ED. it got me thinking what if all the characters after him like mikono(silvia's reincarnation), cayenne's(reika), shrade(sirius), andy(pierre), mix(that purple haired chick) are all from the first series. like you said the book open and the pages are empty and zessica is seen. what if zessica gets written into amata's story?
zessica with her dress being light and dark just like celiane's soul before the split? and then yunoha and jin gets written cause their story is new. then kagura and aquarion gets written because he is apollo and the myth amata replaces?

ofcourse that would mean amata getting over mikono but that seems rather unlikely at the moment. it also doesn't explain why zessica sees the vision of kagura and mikono and seems to have some sort of third party connection to them.

there are many ways to interpret that stupid book in the middle.
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Old 2012-03-27, 21:17   Link #124
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Originally Posted by mayumi View Post
there are many ways to interpret that stupid book in the middle.
For some reason, I cracked up when I read this line. Stupid book indeed.

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Originally Posted by mayumi View Post
@Vena

I liked your call about amata's having a blank slate before he shows up in the ED. it got me thinking what if all the characters after him like mikono(silvia's reincarnation), cayenne's(reika), shrade(sirius), andy(pierre), mix(that purple haired chick) are all from the first series. like you said the book open and the pages are empty and zessica is seen. what if zessica gets written into amata's story?
zessica with her dress being light and dark just like celiane's soul before the split? and then yunoha and jin gets written cause their story is new. then kagura and aquarion gets written because he is apollo and the myth amata replaces?

ofcourse that would mean amata getting over mikono but that seems rather unlikely at the moment. it also doesn't explain why zessica sees the vision of kagura and mikono and seems to have some sort of third party connection to them.
This seems like a fun idea, though. This thread, turning a series of still images into entire stories, since whenever we started.
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Old 2012-03-27, 22:03   Link #125
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Originally Posted by mayumi View Post
ofcourse that would mean amata getting over mikono but that seems rather unlikely at the moment. it also doesn't explain why zessica sees the vision of kagura and mikono and seems to have some sort of third party connection to them.
Although I would prefer him to end up with Mikono, he has yet to actually fall in love with her (otherwise Mykage would have trolled Amata as he did with Jin and Donar). He has a strong infatuation at the edge of love and those disappear just as fast as they appear. It's the nature of strong infatuations.

Japanese usually have two ways to develop couples: they become infatuated or they gradually build a solid friendship/comradeship first and eventually this turns into romantic love. Generally, it's the later relationship which is the endgame (not always, mind you!).
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Old 2012-03-27, 22:35   Link #126
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Yeah, and honestly as cute as I find Amata and Mikono the almost-confession in episode 13 had this "TOO SOON MAN, TOO SOON" feeling to it. I sketched at least one really easy way to put a rift between them a few pages back by now, basically having the one-two punch of Mikono defending Kagura ("he's confused but not evil") and Zessica talking to Amata about her visions, but there're enough other ways to monkey-wrench it I could see it turning out all kinds of ways now.

One thing that's been tickling the back of my brain for awhile is that Mikono seems like she has some kind of latent death wish. I wish I could point to something concrete but it's just a hunch. I'm not seeing it as a typical, "real-world suicide"-style death wish, but more of an existential fatigue (like being tired of being reincarnated over and over, or something along those lines).

Something about how she reacted to Kagura this week really brought this out of my subconscious, but now that I've typed it up I can actually see it dovetailing nicely with a lot of what we're seeing and the general thematic direction we *seem* to be going in. Maybe there's something to it?
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Old 2012-03-27, 22:52   Link #127
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I'm probably going to cry when I get trolled again, so I think I'm going to lay off the whole Apollo/Apollonius reincarnation for now. But I feel as if there might be something big coming up in the next episode or two.

But there is one thing. I've noticed that in the ED, and I'm not sure if it's been mentioned before, that Zessica is wearing Celianne's armor. I found that very interesting, as well as in the first couple of episodes, the ED has the book of genesis in there.

What key might that book hold that it's being shown so much in the OP and in the ED as well. It didn't look like it was very useful in the OS considering that they only used it to read up on the legend of Apollonius and Celianne.


Also, Amata and Kagura being bound by thorns, I found that pretty interesting as well. And very interesting that Jin was also done in by a thorn.

I'm not getting into reincarnations right now, but I just have this gut feeling that both Amata and Kagura are connected somehow. It might not even be reincarnations at all. There could be something else connecting the two together. Possibly Alicia.


One thing I'm very interested in seeing, is Andy digging up some more ancient things. I really wonder, could they ever discover that room where Sirius would hang out at? I mean, back in the OS, Daeva academy was situated on the Alisia palace.

There has to be a couple of things left over from that, and I'm hoping Andy excavates some more.

And that underground cave where there was a statue of Apollonius. Gen had it hidden, so I'm hoping it's still there as well.
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Old 2012-03-27, 23:52   Link #128
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Let me ask you guys something.

Do you guys prefer Mykage got the Golden Aquarion, and use it to fight against Neo-Deava in the final battle, or Neo-Deave got the Golden Aquarion and crush Mykage in the final battle?
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Old 2012-03-28, 00:02   Link #129
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Thorns in the ED are very interesting: since we saw how Mykage controlled Kagura through his hands I think they in ending represent Mykage's presence.
That's a very interesting idea and highly probable("I do everything for love") about Mykage able to live by eating women red strands of fate.

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Originally Posted by noobita View Post
Let me ask you guys something.

Do you guys prefer Mykage got the Golden Aquarion, and use it to fight against Neo-Deava in the final battle, or Neo-Deave got the Golden Aquarion and crush Mykage in the final battle?
None of this, I not interested in reviving and an old Aquarion since it already is used as something that holds planet then by touching it we bring destruction of that planet like in the previous show with the tree of life: destroy it and you destroy the earth too.
Let a new legend use a new one since that backward word EVOL is LOVE( it's more interesting to see what reverse can do to the backward word so I vote for them both using it than the old machine)
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Old 2012-03-28, 00:03   Link #130
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Originally Posted by LastOrder View Post
Also, Amata and Kagura being bound by thorns, I found that pretty interesting as well. And very interesting that Jin was also done in by a thorn.

I think that the thorns represent Mykage's interference, but interestingly enough unlike Kagura who lets the thorns cover him, Amata seems to be trying to actually get away from said thorns.
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Old 2012-03-28, 00:08   Link #131
Vena
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Also, Amata and Kagura being bound by thorns, I found that pretty interesting as well. And very interesting that Jin was also done in by a thorn.

I'm not getting into reincarnations right now, but I just have this gut feeling that both Amata and Kagura are connected somehow. It might not even be reincarnations at all. There could be something else connecting the two together. Possibly Alicia.
I had always assumed it was Mykage's thorns, especially for Kagura (seeing as how it basically mirrors his state from Episode 6 to 11). I think we're going to really get into Amata's character when he finally goes (returns?) to Altair (with the true eve, of course, to complete his duty as an Altairian male). His mother being on Altair is not a plot line that their not going to use nor is Izumo's knowledge of Amata and Alicia. (And, its through Alicia, that I can see Amata being controlled by Mykage if he hasn't been already. If Mykage is the reason for her departure then he's already got his hands on Amata so to speak as it was his actions that have driven Amata thus far.)

Now, assuming Amata's stories are true (here's some fun speculation):

His dad and Alicia's lover, why have we never seen anything of him? He was likely one-shot by Mykage. Why? Because he'd have effectively done what Jin just did, betrayed Altair and Mykage for love, spoiling the Eve and turning her, as Mykage sees it, into used trash. Even if his words were to goad Izumo, his actions seem to imply more than just petty trickery for the sake of pissing of Izumo as he was about to kill her if Izumo hadn't intervened. Why would Mykage do such just to goad Izumo? What does he hope to benefit? He seemed more like someone with a petty grudge against her. (There also seems to be more to the eve than just making babies, otherwise Alicia's status as a mother would be irrelevant. Perhaps having a child make them unable to function as the true eve for some reason.)

More importantly, Mykage and Izumo were cooperating in the past to get the Eve, so they were not always on such shaky (and isn't that an understatement) terms. Something seems to have changed for Mykage to become the way he is today, and I can easily see it as some sort of betrayal from someone he'd trusted. Perhaps a certain, unnamed golden haired Alterian male knocked up a certain valuable Vegan female, that Mykage had had a use for in his plans. Mykage killing said male may have shattered whatever cooperative spirit he and Izumo had if said male was someone Izumo had known. (I can easily see the unknown male's death as the reason for Alicia's departure to Altair, to appease Mykage's wrath and spare the child of love.)

If the above happened, we can better understand why Mykage is so vengeful when it comes to treacherous love.

Quick addition:
Amata having no smell? Perhaps that because he's new to the story. The blank page theme works for this.
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Old 2012-03-28, 00:12   Link #132
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Originally Posted by noobita View Post
Let me ask you guys something.

Do you guys prefer Mykage got the Golden Aquarion, and use it to fight against Neo-Deava in the final battle, or Neo-Deave got the Golden Aquarion and crush Mykage in the final battle?
Forget Aquarion. I want Mykage be OVA Touma and Zen be TV Series Touma and both will fight in a fabulous way.
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Old 2012-03-28, 00:23   Link #133
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Forget Aquarion. I want Mykage be OVA Touma and Zen be TV Series Touma and both will fight in a fabulous way.

That's be a fight I'd pay to watch.
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Old 2012-03-28, 01:21   Link #134
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Originally Posted by LastOrder View Post

Also, Amata and Kagura being bound by thorns, I found that pretty interesting as well. And very interesting that Jin was also done in by a thorn.


The thorns probabely symbolizes Mykage's scheming. We have already seen him manipulate Kagura. He'll do the same with Amata.

There is an interesting theory on that matter. It says that Amata's eyes should indeed be yellow (such as why Mykage told to Izumo) but that their actual magenta colour is a sign of something Mykage put in him for latter use. Remember that Kagura's arms glowed magenta when Mykage was using his magic on him.
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Old 2012-03-28, 10:17   Link #135
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About the thorns in the ED: awhile back we got those "clean" versions of the ED graphics, and interestingly the "clean" version of Mikono had her vertically (like she's falling down, not sitting horizontally like she is in the ED).

If you take the "falling" Mikono as the true version of her ED picture, then the Kagura and Amata ED art fits nicely: you can arrange it so that Kagura is reaching for her but his arms are bound by those vines, whereas Amata attempting to dive down, break through the vines, and grab her that way.

In any case I have this strong suspicion that the pictures in the ED are made to fit together into a single image somehow (which'll hopefully be a poster for sale at some point, because the artwork is just lovely). Goofing around with the clean versions of them I can see a bit of how it might fit together, but it seems like we'd a need a few more images to really be able to pick a likely final arrangement.
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Old 2012-03-28, 10:31   Link #136
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Is the Book of Genesis important to the original SA anyway? All I remember is that Rena read a couple of lines from the book which didn't affect the story in significant ways.
It's the book the daughter of Apollonius and Celiane wrote that contains the story of 24,000 years before and prophecies of things to come.

The daughter's name was Alisia.

Rena, the reincarnation of the angel dog Boron, who was blind vampire Element can read it.

We also learn Reika in the OVA is the reincarnation of Scorpius, the third pilot in OVA universe.

Izumo has Altair's version of the Book of Genesis. Which leads me to believe Altair is another AU like the OVA.

Currently in Vega Andy relates a myth about a Book of the Twin Stars that is missing and sought.

Fudou also said the book, non-specific, will not open until its reader comes.
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Old 2012-03-28, 12:37   Link #137
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i want to see kagura and zessica meet. not because i think of them as a pairing potential but to see if kagura thinks her soul stinks like mikono's. it does not have to be the same smell, unless she too has no smell like amata then its a headache
it might support my theory of zessica being celiane II incoming while amata is apollonius II for the new myth. but ofcourse it could mean nothing and she is just left alone in the end.
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Old 2012-03-28, 13:10   Link #138
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About Altair, I still think it's Atlantia.

Once the humans were rescued in the OS at the end, It could be possible that maybe a few of them stay behind to live on Atlantia, and over the course of time the name of the planet changed.

Same goes for Vega. Vega used to be known as the planet Earth. I mean, things change a lot over 12 thousand years.

These planets are the same as the OS except with the fact that their inhabitants changed the name of the place they live on.
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Old 2012-03-28, 13:15   Link #139
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About Altair, I still think it's Atlantia.

Once the humans were rescued in the OS at the end, It could be possible that maybe a few of them stay behind to live on Atlantia, and over the course of time the name of the planet changed.

Same goes for Vega. Vega used to be known as the planet Earth. I mean, things change a lot over 12 thousand years.

These planets are the same as the OS except with the fact that their inhabitants changed the name of the place they live on.
Problem with that is that the original Aquarion is buried under the tree of life which is specifically in Atlantia. It's already been said that the Aquarion is in Vega which means Atlantia is in Vega.
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Old 2012-03-28, 13:17   Link #140
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There's a theory out there that states that there will be a third planet filled with Shadow angels called Deneb and since Kawamori has an obsession with triangles, it kinda does make sense.

"The three stars that form the Summer Triangle are Altair, Deneb and Vega. And because the Japanese do not have words to differentiate between Stars and Planets, this fits perfectly. Deneb will be the name of the third planet, and the third enemy. "

We're only half way through the series and we're already running out of enemies soo... :/

Last edited by queenSwild; 2012-03-28 at 13:32.
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