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Old 2012-04-02, 13:04   Link #221
mayumi
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i just want to know why it is zessica who saw the vision along with kagura. what connection do the 2 have? is she the wings? she seems to develop a new power every episode - hand of god, flame slap, telekinesis, self-projection in the current episode(she is the only one to do it), getting naked without shame
the whole flame hand does ring apollo by the way. apollo's mugen attack always had a flame/fire feel to it. is she part of kagura's soul/mind?

she could just be the third element with silvie and apollon like reika was and feels mikono will choose kagura instead of amata. but that's a repeat of OVA scenario so i am not sure they will try it again. however zessica's concern for amata looks like she really wants him to be happy and it worried mikono would disappoint him meaning she is loyal. so is she rena the dog? wants to protect her owner?

i also think we might have to connect the episode written by okada marie. last one written by her was ep 11. the only time any wings awakened at the time was kagura -zessica vision. so do the writers give each other different episodes to write abut not connect them back together when the show airs? that's messed up. even in episode 11 we felt a disjoint when mikono-amata were moping and day dreaming about kagura who they didn't think of previous 2 episodes. the last episode written by marie before 11 was 6.
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Old 2012-04-02, 13:08   Link #222
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Vena: ...and that line of thought (+ some of what Zen said) is why I'm thinking reincarnation is going to be Mr Potato-head style: everything's confusing because everyone's at least partially a composite and it's not clear which parts dominate yet. So I give up (beyond putting that general idea out there, I think).

The wings, though: no idea. Maybe the double-halo if you squint the right way? But I doubt it.
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Old 2012-04-02, 13:32   Link #223
kuromitsu
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Originally Posted by pingva View Post
I don't think so it's going to be explained. Just at this moment I can give you this: Apollo had an archaic wolf-form, Apollo Lycaeus, worshipped in Athens at the Lykeion, or Lyceum.
Frankly, I think this is a lot more thought than Kawamori & Co. would put into it. And anyway it doesn't answer my question: why can he transform and what triggers it, or does he do it randomly? Does he do it at will? Which one is his real form? Can anyone else do something like this? There wasn't anything like this in the first series (well, Rena sometimes saw Apollo as a canine but that was just Rena and her weirdo-vision, he wasn't really a werewolf).

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Originally Posted by miketyson View Post
kuromitsu: I'm pretty handicapped still not having seen the original, and most of what I know is either from wikipedia or from reading what other people post. That said, the sketch of the theory is that (1) "Zen" is Touma, and in fact "Zen" is just a projection (a la Mykage); (2) his real body might be in that crystal cave from ep 1 (suspiciously similar to Mykage's ice-crystal resting place); (3) his motivation is (I guess) to oversee and protect Apollonius's legacy; and from (4) his being ok with Mikono's reaction (and specifically with giving her a pass on going into the ground...) can be interpreted in a way favorable to this interpretation. Why does he decide to act like Gen? Dunno.
I see where you're coming from but I can't see Touma of all people (Angels) doing that. ^^;; I mean, aside of what I said above, do you think Touma would ever allow any reincarnation of Celiane anywhere near hisss preciousss? Never mind nurturing and teaching her. Plus, if Touma had the Solar Wings at his disposal you bet Vega would be Shadow Angel Paradise by now.

But I guess anything is possible... I just don't think this idea is compatible with Touma's personality and his motivations.
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Old 2012-04-02, 13:36   Link #224
Vena
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mayumi View Post
i just want to know why it is zessica who saw the vision along with kagura. what connection do the 2 have? is she the wings? she seems to develop a new power every episode - hand of god, flame slap, telekinesis, self-projection in the current episode(she is the only one to do it), getting naked without shame
the whole flame hand does ring apollo by the way. apollo's mugen attack always had a flame/fire feel to it. is she part of kagura's soul/mind?
I still think that was Mykage's doing, that *vision* was twice presented as a reflection, we never actually see anyone *seeing it in their heads*. It's in Kagura's eyes and its in Zessica's mirror. It's also not at all been used to show any internal doubt on Zessica unlike how the familiarity between Mikono and Kagura has been played out, (and it stars one person Zees'd never even met, so how would she know what he looks like) but is instead being used as a driving force for her to be worried about Amata. That is to say that Zess is completely detached from that vision aside from being worried about Amata because of it.

To reiterate for the sake of how strange I find it, Zessica saw a person she'd never met. How would she be able to know such a thing? It reeks of outside meddling.

As for Zess's power... not a large enough sample size?
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Old 2012-04-02, 14:16   Link #225
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More and more after each episode, I'm coming to believe that Zen is actually Rena. Think about it:
1. He has the same eye colour as her
2. He's always going on about how he can "see" things, which is what Rena's ability was. Even though she was blind she could see much more than the average person.
3. Rena has already been shown to change her form once. First she was the flying dog, and then the girl in a wheelchair. It's entirely possible that she changed her form again.
4. Which means she was also around 24 000 years ago, and Mykage (Touma?) could have met her as the flying dog. She was Appollonius's friend after all and so must have come from the same place as the shadow angels, or she could even be one herself. (One of the shadow angels in the OS was shown to be a big flying dog or lion, I can't remember exactly)
5. She knew the original Fudou and so could be taking his form on a whim or as a tribute to him or something
6. And she knew Sylvia in the past. So if Mikono is indeed Sylvia, then the comment Zen (Rena) makes about her not having changed makes sense as well

Spoiler for Zen and Rena's eye colour:

Last edited by Krysa; 2012-04-03 at 03:43.
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Old 2012-04-02, 15:08   Link #226
miketyson
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Vena: I thought Zessica saw Kagura during Cayenne's vision way back in episode 1? (Although if that counts, you think she'd recognize him...). Actually: next week she sees him in person...should be fun.
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Old 2012-04-02, 15:24   Link #227
Vena
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Originally Posted by miketyson View Post
Vena: I thought Zessica saw Kagura during Cayenne's vision way back in episode 1? (Although if that counts, you think she'd recognize him...). Actually: next week she sees him in person...should be fun.
That's true, I completely forgot about that. In light of that, I cannot help but think that the mirror showed her and Kagura what they wanted... and also contrast how they use it. For Kagura its a driving force but for Zess a point of worry.

Irregardless she's a real trooper, putting the happiness of her loved one before her own.

Ugh, I can see it already. Zess butts in and takes Mikono's spot when Kagura is trying to take her back to Altair. Where's my face palm.
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Old 2012-04-02, 15:31   Link #228
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miketyson View Post
Vena: I thought Zessica saw Kagura during Cayenne's vision way back in episode 1? (Although if that counts, you think she'd recognize him...). Actually: next week she sees him in person...should be fun.
She saw him during Cayenne's vision in the 1-2 episodes and in the previous th episode when Kagura was holding Mikono in his arms.
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Old 2012-04-02, 15:51   Link #229
mayumi
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But isn't it possible if zessica has any power of aquarion/wing seperate from the body of apollo/appolonius she too like mikono chooses amata over twisted kagura?
Zen doesn't want kagura who is said to be mikono's destiny to be together. He wants a new myth. So maybe hoping mikono and zessica would choose amata? Wings would be different from a person's heart like in case of mikono. Wings job would be to protect without anything in return.
Eh lets just wait for next episode.
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Old 2012-04-02, 17:00   Link #230
miketyson
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Ugh, I can see it already. Zess butts in and takes Mikono's spot when Kagura is trying to take her back to Altair. Where's my face palm.
Didn't you leave it a few pages back? But now I want this to happen just to see how Kagura would react.
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Old 2012-04-02, 18:22   Link #231
wisteria233
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mayumi View Post
But isn't it possible if zessica has any power of aquarion/wing seperate from the body of apollo/appolonius she too like mikono chooses amata over twisted kagura?
Zen doesn't want kagura who is said to be mikono's destiny to be together. He wants a new myth. So maybe hoping mikono and zessica would choose amata? Wings would be different from a person's heart like in case of mikono. Wings job would be to protect without anything in return.
Eh lets just wait for next episode.
At this point in time it would come out of no where, since Zen isn't even trying to cultivate her abilities like he has with the others. If Zessica were so important then Fudo would have paid her more attention than he does right now.

Zen also isn't even trying to push Zessica and Amata together, and Amata isn't even into Zessica. He's not giving Zessica any special treatment, like how he has with Amata and Mikono. And even if Zen tried to push Zessica on Amata it wouldn't help since Amata doesn't think of her romantically.
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Old 2012-04-02, 18:55   Link #232
Vena
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Originally Posted by miketyson View Post
Didn't you leave it a few pages back? But now I want this to happen just to see how Kagura would react.
Probably not care and go after Mikono again? Same as he's done for the last 14 episodes.
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Old 2012-04-02, 19:33   Link #233
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At this point in time it would come out of no where, since Zen isn't even trying to cultivate her abilities like he has with the others. If Zessica were so important then Fudo would have paid her more attention than he does right now.

Zen also isn't even trying to push Zessica and Amata together, and Amata isn't even into Zessica. He's not giving Zessica any special treatment, like how he has with Amata and Mikono. And even if Zen tried to push Zessica on Amata it wouldn't help since Amata doesn't think of her romantically.
Yeah, it seems weird that while Zessica is one of the three main characters/pilots, Zen doesn't seem to care about her at all. May be he's doing it on purpose?

If it wasn't for the vision she had in ep 11 I wouldn't think she's a reincarnation of anyone.
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Old 2012-04-03, 09:46   Link #234
mayumi
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i am not sure how trust worthy zen really is, if he doesn't want kagura(if he is apollo) to be with mikono(if she is silvia). i would call that trolling being a fan of the apollo x silvia pairing myself.
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Old 2012-04-03, 09:52   Link #235
Zuul
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Originally Posted by mayumi View Post
i am not sure how trust worthy zen really is, if he doesn't want kagura(if he is apollo) to be with mikono(if she is silvia). i would call that trolling being a fan of the apollo x silvia pairing myself.
I've been doubting Zen's faithfulness in that is strange little ritual apparently had for effect to start awakening that golden robot, which isn't a good thing.

But it could also be due to Mykage's trolling Zen's ritual.
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Old 2012-04-03, 12:53   Link #236
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Originally Posted by mayumi View Post
i am not sure how trust worthy zen really is, if he doesn't want kagura(if he is apollo) to be with mikono(if she is silvia). i would call that trolling being a fan of the apollo x silvia pairing myself.
Well Amata is showing to also be part of Apollo/ Apollonius as well.
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Old 2012-04-03, 13:42   Link #237
ReddyRedWolf
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Zen calls Zessica's power Distortion. While Zessica's data calls it Impact. Her power is a form of telekinesis. Zessica has a vision of Kagura and Mikono as Apollon and Sylvie. She feels get can't get close to Amata....

My goodness Zessica is OVA Silvia! The Mugen Punch that Silvia, Apollo and Reika did to save their world created the Great Catastrophe due to the dimensional distortion. Somehow its effects led TV Silvia to acquire OVA Silvia's memory that Apollo is Apollonius.

Which leads me to theorize some part of their OVA counterparts merged with them because of the dimensional distortion with differing effects. With Silvia its OVA Silvia's partial memory. TV Reika inherited OVA Reika cursing herself causing bad luck. Apollo... He lost his memory before meeting Baron. Even OVA Apollo had family such as his grandfather.

Both Silvia's reincarnated into different bodies. Mikono is TV Silvia with her connection power. Zessica is OVA Silvia with her impact/distortion power.


On another note Izumo believes Altair is dying. Which leads me to think the Tree of Life there is dying as well. The connection between Altair and Kagura's Mithras Ignis through the portal looks to me like a tree.
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Old 2012-04-03, 13:48   Link #238
cyberdemon
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Originally Posted by ReddyRedWolf View Post
Zen calls Zessica's power Distortion. While Zessica's data calls it Impact. Her power is a form of telekinesis. Zessica has a vision of Kagura and Mikono as Apollon and Sylvie. She feels get can't get close to Amata....

My goodness Zessica is OVA Silvia! The Mugen Punch that Silvia, Apollo and Reika did to save their world created the Great Catastrophe due to the dimensional distortion. Somehow its effects led TV Silvia to acquire OVA Silvia's memory that Apollo is Apollonius.

Which leads me to theorize some part of their OVA counterparts merged with them because of the dimensional distortion with differing effects. With Silvia its OVA Silvia's partial memory. TV Reika inherited OVA Reika cursing herself causing bad luck. Apollo... He lost his memory before meeting Baron. Even OVA Apollo had family such as his grandfather.

Both Silvia's reincarnated into different bodies. Mikono is TV Silvia with her connection power. Zessica is OVA Silvia with her impact/distortion power.


On another note Izumo believes Altair is dying. Which leads me to think the Tree of Life there is dying as well. The connection between Altair and Kagura's Mithras Ignis through the portal looks to me like a tree.
i mentioned this in the episode 14 thread but distortion actually fits better in my opinion. In episode 1 she used it to distort space for that massive attack. In episode 12 she used it to distort matter when her emotions got the better of her.
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Old 2012-04-03, 16:04   Link #239
Vena
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<snippity snip>
You'd think that Fudo would have made some reference or at least made some note of this as he does with Mikono this episode (or that anyone in this show would have shown any interest in her aside from Izumo as her candidacy for the new Eve). Fudo's focus has been almost exclusively on Mikono in terms of attention to females, similarly for Kagura and Mykage. The only thing we have in this whole show that Zessica is anyone at all in a second hand view of a mirror showing her an image of Kagura and Mikono. Which hasn't even been used to show her doubting herself or powers or wondering about who Kagura is...

Now that we know her power is distortion...

And her emotions racing causing distortions...

Her mirror rippling as if it were distorted...

Seems like a much easier solution rather than being some super hidden Sylvie that the show only remotely even touched for 10 seconds of a single episode with none of the major players and possible reincarnations so much as even noticing her existence.
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Old 2012-04-03, 17:28   Link #240
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Speaking of which, I noticed that in the ED, Zessica's armor resembles Celianne's. I find that very intruiging.

So anyways

Let's see, so her emotions causing distortion

The mirror rippling as if it were distorted.

Should her powers go out of control...it could be that her powers might have a negative on others, even her friends. That is, if she lets her emotions get to her. That distortion could cause an unbalance inside Aquarion itself.

I have a feeling her power is going to become very useful in the near future.
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