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Old 2012-04-01, 13:57   Link #1021
Anh_Minh
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Originally Posted by Toto y Moi View Post
great episode. the butlers are so militant in this version.
I don't like that the butlers deceived Killua. What the hell was that?
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Old 2012-04-01, 14:11   Link #1022
Toto y Moi
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Originally Posted by Dengar View Post
^I'd love to talk more about this bit, but I think it's better to wait until the next arc is over.
Agreed. Rain check.

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Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
I don't like that the butlers deceived Killua. What the hell was that?
I think that it's because they loved him so much. Gotoh said that he saw Killua as his own son--he had to see if Gon was worthy enough to be friends with Killua. It's a Zoldyck Family staple. You get the sense that in this family, the ones you love are the ones that you never betray. Gotoh wanted to see if Gon was the real deal or not. It seemed like he was testing Gon's resourcefulness and insight with this game.
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Old 2012-04-01, 14:47   Link #1023
Anh_Minh
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But in the manga, he just used the time when Killua was walking between his home and the butlers'. I have a problem with him disobeying and lying to Killua's face for that test.
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Old 2012-04-01, 14:55   Link #1024
ars89
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Lol Gon wanted to play instead of train. Thought the butlers would actually try to fight it out, but good thing Killua got there first. So the group will be reunited in September. Wonder what the heaven's arena is. Sounds like a place to fight.
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Old 2012-04-01, 15:25   Link #1025
Toto y Moi
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Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
But in the manga, he just used the time when Killua was walking between his home and the butlers'. I have a problem with him disobeying and lying to Killua's face for that test.
Even when reading the manga, I was always under the impression that Gotoh would have killed Gon and his friends had they failed his little test. That would have required him to lie anyways, right? He gives off this really strong yakuza vibe because of the way in which he talks. I don't think his threats were only to intimidate. When he says that he'll slit Canary's throat if the trio doesn't answer in three seconds, I always thought that he meant it. Though I understand your grievance, even if I don't share the same.

Also, some brief news. Starting from 4/15, there'll be an omake corner in every episode of the Madhouse version. It's called "Gon and Killua's Huncyclopedia."
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Old 2012-04-01, 15:32   Link #1026
Anh_Minh
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Originally Posted by Toto y Moi View Post
Even when reading the manga, I was always under the impression that Gotoh would have killed Gon and his friends had they failed his little test. That would have required him to lie anyways, right? He gives off this really strong yakuza vibe because of the way in which he talks. I don't think his threats were only to intimidate. When he says that he'll slit Canary's throat if the trio doesn't answer in three seconds, I always thought that he meant it.
Maybe, maybe not. I think it's meant to be one of those things we'll never really know.

But my real problem is having Killua let that happen. It felt... contrived, I guess, the way "walking down a mountain takes time" never did.
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Old 2012-04-01, 15:46   Link #1027
Toto y Moi
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Maybe, maybe not. I think it's meant to be one of those things we'll never really know.
Gotoh's demeanor leads me to believe that he's the type to make good on his threats. It's the radical shift in his speech--he changes from this seemingly ordinary butler into this deadly man. The Zoldycks don't trust outsiders. They keep empathy and love within the family. I would imagine it extends to the butlers as well, whom are forbidden to form any real sort of relationship with their employers but love them all the same. Of course, I'm just explaining my own rationale.


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But my real problem is having Killua let that happen. It felt... contrived, I guess, the way "walking down a mountain takes time" never did.
I think it's moreso that Killua had no idea what Gotoh was planning on doing. Even Kikyo tried to lie to his face last episode--that Gon and his friends had "already left." Killua had no reason to wait in the lobby of the butlers' quarters since he has his own room in the building--they aren't his friends. They're workers. The scene itself didn't take too long in the first place; if you consider it to be real-time, then Killua waited for fifteen minutes before he got impatient enough to see what was going on.
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Old 2012-04-01, 15:57   Link #1028
Anh_Minh
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Originally Posted by Toto y Moi View Post
Gotoh's demeanor leads me to believe that he's the type to make good on his threats. It's the radical shift in his speech--he changes from this seemingly ordinary butler into this deadly man.
And back again with equal ease.

Quote:
The Zoldycks don't trust outsiders. They keep empathy and love within the family. I would imagine it extends to the butlers as well, whom are forbidden to form any real sort of relationship with their employers but love them all the same. Of course, I'm just explaining my own rationale.
I have no doubt Gotoh would kill, if he deemed it in Killua's interests. Was that the case here? Hard to say. He was certainly testing and preparing Gon, but that's not the same as saying he'd really kill him if he lost the coin game. The point, after all, wasn't to see how good Gon's vision was.


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I think it's moreso that Killua had no idea what Gotoh was planning on doing.
Except that Killua knows them.

Quote:
Even Kikyo tried to lie to his face last episode--that Gon and his friends had "already left."
And that's my point - Killua didn't believe her. Because he knows Gon, sure, but also because he knows his mother. And the rest of the Zoldycks household.

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Killua had no reason to wait in the lobby of the butlers' quarters since he has his own room in the building
I think it's just a random guest room. There's no reason for Killua to have a personal room in the servants' quarters.

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--they aren't his friends. They're workers. The scene itself didn't take too long in the first place; if you consider it to be real-time, then Killua waited for fifteen minutes before he got impatient enough to see what was going on.
Considering how impatient Killua was to leave - with good reasons - there's even less reason for him to not wait in the lobby.
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Old 2012-04-01, 16:34   Link #1029
Clarste
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I also disliked Gotoh lying to Killua. It felt kind of pointless and undermined the uncertainty of whether he was actually playing a game or not. Leaving things ambiguous is often a very important storytelling techniques, especially when it comes to characters who are liars. And, well, given the parting advice he gives Gon that's supposed to be the entire point of the scene. Not everything is as it appears to be.
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Old 2012-04-01, 16:43   Link #1030
Toto y Moi
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Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
And back again with equal ease.
True, but Hunter x Hunter is a series where most of the characters are psychologically flawed in some major way. I'm more inclined to believe that Gotoh is more of the violent sort than he is the militant straight man. His demeanor in later appearances also kind of indicate this.

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Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
I have no doubt Gotoh would kill, if he deemed it in Killua's interests. Was that the case here? Hard to say. He was certainly testing and preparing Gon, but that's not the same as saying he'd really kill him if he lost the coin game. The point, after all, wasn't to see how good Gon's vision was.
I don't think that Gotoh was trying to prepare Gon. Gotoh says to the trio that he plans on telling Killua that they left without him. He then makes threats saying that "your lives hang by a thread." I don't think that this was intended to be some clever game, since Gotoh seems fully prepared to punish Canary for having disobeyed her orders. Gotoh seemed as if he was trying to test whether Canary's judgment was correct or not.

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Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
Except that Killua knows them.
Not well. The only one whom gives him hope is Gon. But he doesn't know for certain that Gon wants to see him. Remember that conversation he had with Illumi? Killua was plagued with self-doubt at their friendship. His brother's words are in his head. Gotoh could have sold the lie that Gon and his friends left the mansion or decided not to come. And then hearing that would have stamped out any remaining hope that Killua ever had of making a friend.

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Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
And that's my point - Killua didn't believe her. Because he knows Gon, sure, but also because he knows his mother. And the rest of the Zoldycks household.
Killua didn't believe her because his father gave him a reason not to. He knows that his mother is a liar. He probably gets it from her. Killua doesn't hold Kikyo in the highest esteem.

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Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
I think it's just a random guest room. There's no reason for Killua to have a personal room in the servants' quarters.
The subtitles don't indicate it, but the language used in the episode imply that Killua actually has his own room in the butlers' quarters. Gotoh says "your room." Plus, there are toys in it.

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Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
Considering how impatient Killua was to leave - with good reasons - there's even less reason for him to not wait in the lobby.
He probably would have been bored. I mean, he has his own room in the house. Gotoh is basically telling him to relax until his friend arrives.
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Old 2012-04-01, 17:31   Link #1031
Keroko
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Hmm, interesting changes to the 1999 series this time. I like the events from this version better.

Also, given that my main complaint about this remake has always been the music, it's only fitting to give credit where credit is due and note that this new Zoaldyck theme is made of pure awesome.
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Old 2012-04-01, 20:58   Link #1032
Goty
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So the new anime keeps disappointing. They keep changing things from the manga for no reason, and the next episode will be the 2nd recap already. Ugh. Is Madhouse working under a tight schedule or what?
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Old 2012-04-01, 21:48   Link #1033
Toto y Moi
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So the new anime keeps disappointing. They keep changing things from the manga for no reason, and the next episode will be the 2nd recap already. Ugh. Is Madhouse working under a tight schedule or what?
You should probably watch this episode while reading the manga side-by-side to it. And then do the same with the 1999 series version. The differences will really surprise you. The butlers are characterized noticeably differently in the 1999 series.

As far as the recaps go, at least they're TV-only. It seems that Madhouse isn't putting any of them on the Blu-Rays/DVDs.
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Old 2012-04-02, 01:14   Link #1034
Anh_Minh
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Originally Posted by Toto y Moi View Post
True, but Hunter x Hunter is a series where most of the characters are psychologically flawed in some major way. I'm more inclined to believe that Gotoh is more of the violent sort than he is the militant straight man. His demeanor in later appearances also kind of indicate this.
I think he's very self-controlled.


Quote:
I don't think that Gotoh was trying to prepare Gon. Gotoh says to the trio that he plans on telling Killua that they left without him. He then makes threats saying that "your lives hang by a thread." I don't think that this was intended to be some clever game, since Gotoh seems fully prepared to punish Canary for having disobeyed her orders. Gotoh seemed as if he was trying to test whether Canary's judgment was correct or not.
He did what was necessary to put the fear of death in them. Anything less, and they wouldn't have taken him seriously enough for his purpose.

I think that, like the last coin trick, it was a kind of warning. "See that kind of shit? If you stick with Killua, it's the sort of things that happen. Are you ready?"


Quote:
Not well. The only one whom gives him hope is Gon. But he doesn't know for certain that Gon wants to see him. Remember that conversation he had with Illumi? Killua was plagued with self-doubt at their friendship. His brother's words are in his head. Gotoh could have sold the lie that Gon and his friends left the mansion or decided not to come. And then hearing that would have stamped out any remaining hope that Killua ever had of making a friend.
I meant he knows the butlers. That's really all the reason he needs to suspect foul play.

Quote:
Killua didn't believe her because his father gave him a reason not to. He knows that his mother is a liar. He probably gets it from her. Killua doesn't hold Kikyo in the highest esteem.


The subtitles don't indicate it, but the language used in the episode imply that Killua actually has his own room in the butlers' quarters. Gotoh says "your room." Plus, there are toys in it.


He probably would have been bored. I mean, he has his own room in the house. Gotoh is basically telling him to relax until his friend arrives.
Yes, and I don't like that Killua listened. There was no reason for him to.
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Old 2012-04-02, 02:58   Link #1035
cereal_killerxx
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So I just have one question about the city that was mentioned... Yorknew city? really? REALLY? REAAALLLLY!?!?!? >_>
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Old 2012-04-02, 13:04   Link #1036
Clarste
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This is a setting where the world map is the same as the real world except with all the continents moved around.
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Old 2012-04-02, 17:05   Link #1037
AvianWing
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Originally Posted by cereal_killerxx View Post
So I just have one question about the city that was mentioned... Yorknew city? really? REALLY? REAAALLLLY!?!?!? >_>
Yup, lol.

Though I'm surprised that they didn't keep it York Shin in the translation. It sounds so much better.
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Old 2012-04-03, 01:45   Link #1038
bbsbwk
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Originally Posted by Toto y Moi View Post
You should probably watch this episode while reading the manga side-by-side to it. And then do the same with the 1999 series version. The differences will really surprise you. The butlers are characterized noticeably differently in the 1999 series.

As far as the recaps go, at least they're TV-only. It seems that Madhouse isn't putting any of them on the Blu-Rays/DVDs.
Exactly, I really don't know what the fuss about the 'changes' in this adaptation. It's so minor and doesn't contradict the manga portrayal. Gotoh was always a badass and threatening (if he wanted to be) yakuza-like butler in the manga, as a reader he had you convinced that he'd really live up to his words to kill Canary if Gon were to fail. it's basically those very extreme sense of honor popular in old school yakuza stories. So what if he lied to Killua, so he can test Gon on his own? He stated his feelings clearly already...Killua is so dear to him like a son, it's like giving a daughter away in marriage for any father, so he does want to test if Gon is a worthy friend for Killua on his own. It felt very Japanese. This minor change only showed Gotoh having a will of his own, not just merely a butler who does what's told.

Yet seems like some people tend to subscribe to the 1999 series's version where they made the butlers seem 'safer' and nicer on the surface. Just read the manga.
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Old 2012-04-03, 01:56   Link #1039
Anh_Minh
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(I don't remember the 1999 version, and I don't care about it. I've read the manga much more recently, though.)

I think I've put my finger on what bothers me.

In the manga, a big part of the threat was that he could kill whoever he wanted and have the corpses disappear without a trace, all before Killua arrived. Even if it doesn't change the perspective for Gon and the others, it means that we readers really don't know if he'd have done it or not. Here, with Killua in the next room and liable to come in at any time, it's a lot less true.

Another thing that bothers me: it's one thing for the butlers to "entertain" the guests while they've got nothing better to do but wait anyway. It's another to purposely waste their young master's time, who gave them a direct order to be informed immediately on Gon's arrival.
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Old 2012-04-03, 02:00   Link #1040
leokiko
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I'm not comparing it to the 1999 series anymore. Besides the much lighter animation(the 1999 version scared me, the dark tone was so awesome), pretty much everything is better adaptated so I will just skip whatever discussions are going on comparisons from now on.
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