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Old 2012-04-07, 20:30   Link #601
Eater of All
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J.C. Staff....

I know there's all the stuff about directors and writers, but there's just always a correlation between a studio and its track record that, even if it's argued not to be causation, can almost be treated as such. Which is why I worry for LB, but this tweet does help assuage some of my fears about the direction. I still can't say I'm optimistic about the art/animation quality ever reaching Kanon/Clannad levels though.
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Old 2012-04-07, 20:34   Link #602
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Originally Posted by bahamut zero View Post
Well, but where should they place the EX routes, assuming the animated saya in the trailer wasn't just a big red hering?
As much as I love Saya's route, I'd rather they not include it in the main anime. It's just too far out there compared to the rest of the story to integrate comfortably (well, Refrain was out there too, but in a different way). Not to mention it requires knowledge of spoilers to fully understand.
My ideal would be a full 12 episode season dedicated just to Saya~ But that's probably asking for too much.
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Old 2012-04-07, 20:41   Link #603
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Those tweets are a bit reassuring. At least Key and JC Staff both realize the PR situation that they're in right now, and also what fans of the source material want.

The fact that it will be a long anime is encouraging.

One thing I will say for JC Staff is that they're more likely to be faithful to the source material if they know going in that they'll get to adapt the source material to completion.


Well, I'm a bit more confident now that this will likely be an above average anime show at least.
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Old 2012-04-07, 20:56   Link #604
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A studio as big as JC shouldn't have any qualms about making this as long as it takes (something like Clannad's length shouldn't be so out of question). Ah, but
Quote:
リトバスは長い話なので、アニメも長い期間をもらったてはいますが、どうしても短縮しなければ ならないです 。そこは理解していただきたいです。
This actually address that even though they have a long time slot for the anime, there will still be parts that get cut off because it just is impossible to cram everything in.

But basically at least it won't be a content butchery.
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Old 2012-04-07, 21:04   Link #605
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Originally Posted by Shiina View Post
リトバスアニメは全然違う話になったりとか、オリキャラが出てきたりとか、そういうのは全然ないです。出回 ってるのは構成上の話ですよ。まだ発売されてないですが電撃VAのインタビューを読んでみ てください。
たとえば小毬の話にはかなり早い段階で分岐してます。ですが、起こることやその後の展開などはすべて原作準 拠です。
リトバスは長い話なので、アニメも長い期間をもらったてはいますが、どうしても短縮しなければならないです 。そこは理解していただきたいです。オリジナルといえば、鈴と小毬、新規リトバスメンバーとの関係性はちょ っと掘り下げてもらうかもです。やっておきたかったことなので
What's entertaining is that you could say Zero no Tsukaima fits this entire tweet, but turned out like that.
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Old 2012-04-07, 21:12   Link #606
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erneiz_hyde View Post
A studio as big as JC shouldn't have any qualms about making this as long as it takes (something like Clannad's length shouldn't be so out of question). Ah, but

This actually address that even though they have a long time slot for the anime, there will still be parts that get cut off because it just is impossible to cram everything in.

But basically at least it won't be a content butchery.
Aah, I see.
Well, I guess it's a given that you can't cram everything into an adaptation from a visual novel. And the individual character routes are arguably the weakest parts of LB, so changing up some things shouldn't be too painful (I say that, but JC-style changes are often quite painful...). But if they manage to adapt the latter parts of the game to the ideal of the fans - I'll take back all the bad things I've said about JC Staff up till today.

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Originally Posted by serenade_beta View Post
What's entertaining is that you could say Zero no Tsukaima fits this entire tweet, but turned out like that.
Ssh! We're trying to be optimistic here!
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Old 2012-04-07, 21:16   Link #607
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiina View Post
(I say that, but JC-style changes are often quite painful...)
I hate sounding like a broken record but the writer has never worked for JC staff before,any previous JC staff adaptation is irrelevant.
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Old 2012-04-07, 21:37   Link #608
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Originally Posted by totoum View Post
I hate sounding like a broken record but the writer has never worked for JC staff before,any previous JC staff adaptation is irrelevant.
But making fun of JC Staff is my favorite pastime!

Previous affiliation or not, it's hard to not point out the studio when they've got this reputation. And the director has worked with them plenty. Although it's true that the writer is probably going to be the biggest factor here, especially after Maeda said he's not going to be involved at all.
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Old 2012-04-07, 21:42   Link #609
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Quote:
Originally Posted by totoum View Post
I hate sounding like a broken record but the writer has never worked for JC staff before,any previous JC staff adaptation is irrelevant.
I don't think it's downright irrelevant because I think studios tend to have certain ways of doing things and will generally encourage their employees to follow those common practices. With JC Staff in particular, they have certain elements that they like putting into their shows (anybody want to guess who KugRie is going to be playing in this? ).


That being said, writers and directors are often as important as the animation studio itself, if not moreso in some cases.

So the fact that this writer is a newcomer to JC Staff probably does make it more likely that JC Staff will do a faithful adpatation here.
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Old 2012-04-07, 21:48   Link #610
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Originally Posted by TJR View Post
Yamakawa produced a robust adaptation of Hatsukoi Limited. I'm surprised that Warner/J.C. didn't go with someone more renowned (at this point, his directorial ability remains mostly unknown), but what stands out to me is the extent of his involvement on his shows.

On Hatsukoi Limited, Yamakawa storyboarded half the episodes, and on Kill Me Baby, he did 2/3s (particularly atypical given how busy directors are). He didn't sit back and let his team do all the leg work, which is what we often find with veteran directors.

I think that kind of dedication and passion can convince producers to give someone a chance. After all, those who embrace their assignments are likely to give 110% of themselves. There's no guarantee of quality, but I certainly appreciate tenacity.
Interesting. I've been meaning to watch Hatsukoi Limited because it's gotten some good ratings and there's a lot of VA talent I like. It's good to know he has done some work that has been generally well received.

I like that he cares about his shows. One of things the Air/Kanon/Clannad Extras gave off was that Tatsuya Ishihara cared A LOT and was extremely meticulous about everything they did. So if Yamakawa approaches the show with the same focus, that can't be a bad thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiina View Post
-"For example, Komari's route will appear quite early on, but all the developments will stay true to the original."

Interesting. I'm not as pessimistic about this adaptation now... but still not getting expectations too high. And Komari first, eh? Her route doesn't seem to be too popular, but I liked it.
I think Komari is a great choice for the first route. She's the easiest character to get along with. Her route strikes me as one that isn't the best route, but one almost everyone can agree on being good. Probably the easiest route they can animate for various reasons.

Still very apprehensive about the whole thing being able to meet Kyoani + Key standards. My expectations are like a fraction of what they'd be if Kyoani were on board. But I'm pretty confident they'll make something at least watchable that'll probably score 7.5-8.5ish on most Anime databases with a voting system. That's sort of my expectation now, something good but not great. Not that I even really agree with those ratings, but I doubt they make something unwatchable. Those thinking that are overreacting. Kanon 2002 was inferior to 2006, but I still had fun watching it. It's hard to see the sales being bad either:
Quote:
Originally Posted by eggplant View Post

Kanon (2002) *8,919 (7, not including Fan Disc) (Toei Animation)
2002/04/01 *9,665 Vol. 1 (One epsiode)
2002/05/05 10,217 Vol. 2 (Two episodes up to Vol. 7)
2002/06/07 *9,045 Vol. 3
2002/07/05 *9,194 Vol. 4
2002/08/02 *8,278 Vol. 5
2002/09/06 *7,491 Vol. 6
2002/10/02 *8,546 Vol. 7
2003/08/12 *2,531 Fan Disc
This was like the best selling series for Toei in the past decade :P (I have no evidence to back this up.)

I'll probably import the first limited edition volume too unless I really hate it.
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Old 2012-04-07, 21:49   Link #611
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
I don't think it's downright irrelevant because I think studios tend to have certain ways of doing things and will generally encourage their employees to follow those common practices.
But in this case from what I understand the writer isn't even being employed by JC staff
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Old 2012-04-07, 21:50   Link #612
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Originally Posted by Eater of All View Post
Which is why I worry for LB, but this tweet does help assuage some of my fears about the direction.
It sums up what some of us have tried to say about anime scriptwriting. There's a separation between the writing and animation processes, and the latter may not even have much influence on the former.

Quote:
I know there's all the stuff about directors and writers, but there's just always a correlation between a studio and its track record that, even if it's argued not to be causation, can almost be treated as such.
I think there is a correlation, but it's not in the way many people think.

On the most successful anime projects, there are several rounds of revision and multiple levels of input into scripts. While contracted writers do the bulk of the work, there's oversight and feedback from the studio, original publisher/author, leading producer, etc. (if someone has a suggestion for improvement, it's raised at a meeting. Once the writer has made changes, the script is scrutinized again and discussed at the next meeting). It takes time to develop good scripts, and it helps when many sets of eyes are there guide the process.

Take KyoAni for example. They're notable for heavy involvement in script development, and they have many people involved. Some fans worship Fumihiko Shimo for his Key adaptations, but his writing outside the company has never attracted similar acclaim. In fact, people bash Full Metal Panic S1 and Umineko no Naku Koro ni, which he worked on (in terms of original work, there's Generation Gawl, Burst Angel, and Gravion). It's not that Shimo is suddenly golden when working with KyoAni - rather, I'd say there's a good chance that careful editing and oversight helped guide him to the final result.

Now we come to the mega studios Deen, AIC, and J.C.STAFF. With a dozen or so projects launched each year, do you think they have much involvement on scripts? These companies are built to get things out fast (hence the sameness you may feel between works)......on time and on budget. As some have noted, there's no rhyme or reason to how things are adapted. Certain adaptations are loose, others are faithful. Some are slow paced, others are fast paced. Some are complete deviations from the originals, others are overly literal in execution.

The gist of it is that they probably don't offer any oversight, and the scripts are left to the contracted writers. Schedules tend to be very tight, and I'd bet that there are fewer rounds of revision (less time for everything, be it pre-production, animation, or post-production). What qualifies as a finalized script on a Deen show may well be Draft #2 for KyoAni (and done with little to no guidelines on the part of studio producers) as they're under pressure to push the show into production.

In that sense, it's not that the studio "butchers" the show. Rather, they treat scriptwriting as an external process and do little to help the material evolve into the final form (i.e. by not checking the adaptation, not issuing rigid instructions, and not demanding many corrections), or they establish schedules (perhaps demanded by unruly and unreasonable production committees that see the work as lower priority than their top projects) that lead to shorter gestation times for scripts.

As for Little Busters!, it seems that Key is providing guidance, so the team hasn't been left to run free. Also, Shimada is an industry veteran who has adapted long stories before, so there's some reason to be cautiously optimistic.
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Old 2012-04-07, 22:03   Link #613
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Originally Posted by TJR View Post
As for Little Busters!, it seems that Key is providing guidance, so the team hasn't been left to run free. Also, Shimada is an industry veteran who has adapted long stories before, so there's some reason to be cautiously optimistic.
Yuuto (Author of Komari and Kurugaya's Routes for those that don't know.) mentions this on his 4/2 blog (http://key.visualarts.gr.jp/diary/20...ost_148.html):


自分自身も長らく待ち望んでいたことですので、ようやくか…と感慨もひとしおです。
現在脚本をバリバリ監修していますので、是非ご期待くださいませ。

(He mentions he's working hard on supervising the script.) So for sure Key is involved in the script writing process.

Last edited by Ceral; 2012-04-07 at 23:41.
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Old 2012-04-07, 22:38   Link #614
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Originally Posted by totoum View Post
But in this case from what I understand the writer isn't even being employed by JC staff
I think the misconception is that people think the "org chart" is like this:
  • Production Committee
    • Animation Studio
      • Director
      • Lead Writer
      • Character Designer
      • Other staff...

But actually, it's more like this:
  • Production Committee
    • Director
    • Lead Writer
    • Character Designer
    • Animation Studio
      • Other staff...

(The other roles may also have other people reporting to them as well.)

All of the key staff are employed by the Production Committee, and do not "report to" the animation studio. Now, in some cases it may be that it so happens that some of the key positions are actually employed by the animation studio. It may also be, for example, that the director is chosen, and his studio (or favoured studio) comes along with him or her, or they have certain writers they're used to working with and come recommended. It could be in some cases that the animation studio is contracted early on and becomes an investor in the production committee. And it could also be that, in some cases, the production committee is totally hands off and lets one person make all the decisions about the staff and wash their hands of it -- not impossible anyway. But, in any event, the animation studio's job is to produce the animation under the leadership of the key staff appointed by the production committee. If anything, the animation studio reports to the director, and not the other way around.


The above is sort of a small supplement to TJR's excellent post about the production process and why some studios can be more renowned for quality than others. The amount of time and money spent on a given production at KyoAni is way above what is allocated to other studios, and people hire them precisely because they give every production this level of TLC (hence why they only do one production at a time). It's not as if other studios have a culture that "tries to make things worse" -- but rather they don't have people and processes in place to obsessively refine a work's script to a certain standard of perfection. This just means that this refinement process has to happen externally before the animation process begins (as seems to be happening now).
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Old 2012-04-07, 23:12   Link #615
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For myself, I'll continue to be worried, and to be honest I'd have this worry with pretty much any other studio that had been chosen. As others have said, it's a hard game to adapt properly because of how the story is told and in my opinion a KyoAni Clannad style with integrating all the routes into / alongside the main one wouldn't totally work for Little Busters.

Well nothing much to do I guess except wait and see how it turns out. My optimism is gone though.
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Old 2012-04-08, 00:31   Link #616
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JC Staff, huh?
So who's the designated "In the novel, it's explained..." person who will explain what is actually going on in this show every week?

(Yes, I'm aware of my avatar, lol)
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Old 2012-04-08, 02:05   Link #617
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Those tweets are reassuring, but my problem was never with the actual material, but rather the quality of the visuals, heh.

As someone who has played (most of) the game, there's really not going to be much reason for me to watch this if it doesn't come close to KyoAni's art and animation quality, you know? There's no way it'll have the same kind of visual flair.
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Old 2012-04-08, 02:48   Link #618
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I won't add onto the rage that has spread across 10 pages or so regarding JC Staff but I will briefly say that I am part of the "skepticism" crowd and upset over the decision. I was expecting either one of Kyoani, PA works or White Fox to take the adaption, and was expecting JC Staff or Deen to be out of the question. Looks like anything is possible lol.

Anyways, in regards to JC Staff, they are a very big studio. Unfortunately they have a bad rep as they have been the driving factor in recent times in the way they have been "mass-producing" generic and badly adapted LN adaptations. They are also very inconsistent in production values. Index/Railgun and Shana for example had the A-treatment and on the whole looked fantastic (visual side, I'm not talking about the actual story/characters), whilst something like Bakuman looked like trash.

JC Staff has also inconsistent directors. I don't know the names of most of the them, but from my memory only Tatsuyuki Nagai is the only great director (Honey and Clover S2, Toradora, Ano Natsu) and in the past, Kenichi Kasai (noitamina shows like Honey and Clover S1 and Nodame Cantabile). Unforunately, JC doesn't do noitamina shows anymore, and their last one was in 2010 when they did the 3rd season of Nodame Cantabile.

Judging by how high-profile Little Busters is, it can be safely said that JC's A-team in the animation department will be working on this. I am however, dubious about Yamakawa Yoshiki as director and Shimada Michiru as series composition working on this as I don't know anything about them. No Tatsuyuki Nagai or Kenichi Kasai is a bit of a worry for me.


Despite the whole Kadokawa politics or whatever (I don't really give a damn), I believe Kyoani has gotten too much of an ego and or that I am both upset and laughing at them (mostly laughing at them these days, since Disappearance was the only thing I liked from them in the last 3 years). Not only did they do jack all in 2011 (Nichijou was a piece of turd compared to some of the other studio's big hitters like Madoka, Steins Gate, Penguindrum, Anohana and even Hanasaku Iroha to an extent), but they turn down (most likely) one of their most respected franchises (Key) to do moar slice of life with cute girls in the form of Hyou-ka and Chūni-byō Demo Koi Shitai!. Lets face it, Hyou-ka is going to be as mystery centric as much as K-on was music centric and Chūni-byō Demo Koi Shitai! is just going to be a romcom. I mean have a look at the Hyou-ka PV and see where all the focus is - some girl's purple's eyes. Hardly any mention of the mystery element at all.

I guess I should be honest and say a part of my vindictive side regarding Kyoani is happy that they didn't get the project. I have been skeptical of the studio for quite a while now, and this confirms I can now place Kyoani into the "irrelevant" category when it comes to production studios. There's another studio that has equal or arguably better visuals to Kyoani's and also works on a variety of genres other than slice of spam that I actually care about - PA Works. With the exception of Angel Beats, they have provided everything I wanted that I expected Kyoani to actually achieve.

I look forward to PA, ufotable, White Fox, Production IG and Sunrise (when they not spamming moar Gundams) in the future to fulfill my anime needs whilst Kyoani can continue to milk their moeblobs. Peace.
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Old 2012-04-08, 03:07   Link #619
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At least it isn't DEEN.

That's all I can say.
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Old 2012-04-08, 03:38   Link #620
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Maybe it's because I haven't read the VN yet, or maybe it's because I haven't taking a glance at anything by Key in 2 years, but I really can't give much of a darn about the staff of this. Of course I'd like it to be the typical KyoAni/Ishihara combo, or maybe PA Works, but meh, maybe the team doing this can actually make a good product. If it just turns out to be trash, we can have fun bashing it and then move on. The VN will still be here to enjoy, it's not like it'll be RUINED FOREVER or anything. I'm just happy that Little Busters is getting animated.



Anyway, this is a prime alert for me to play the VN before the anime somersaults into this community. I'll get to it after I finish the Muv-Luv trilogy, maybe.
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