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Old 2012-04-10, 10:27   Link #321
cyberdemon
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シルヴィアの転生者に関してはもうひとひねりある
expect a twist on who is Silvia
Considering Mikono has been pushed from the beginning, it means she's may not actually be Silvia. Zessica could very well be her. Kagura always seems to skip past her without even trying to smell her. Even this episode he already picked up Mikono's scent and just didn't try to sniff out anyone else. This would be a real shot in the face for her though because it throws back in her face what she said to Amata about him not being able to be with Mikono because she was "destined" for another. I gotta wonder how she would react if this were the case.

I'd say Mikono is the human personification of Silvia's power of connection rather than actually Silvia similar to Amata being the human personification of Apollonius's wings of the sun.

However we also have to take into account the previous interview where it said that the reincarnations were split between the mind, body, and soul.
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Old 2012-04-10, 10:28   Link #322
miketyson
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Vena: I meant the other way, Zessica has had arguably strange-ish reactions to Kagura (albeit momentary reactions) all of the three brief moments she's encountered him (except, ironically enough, in episode 6, where she had none to speak of). It's nothing huge, but they'd definitely be (in hindsight) early clues if -- and I do mean *if*, -- we were to wind up with something like Kagura = Apollo, Zessica is Sylvie, and Mykage's just gotten Kagura mindscrewed-enough not to recognize her.

Conversely, the fact they're so few and so weak means they might just be there to throw you off a bit more, and there's certainly been zero Kagura => Zessica anything as far as I know. Isn't there supposed to be another 40+ minutes on the episode 1-2 blu-rays? Lots of room to throw in some wildcards that way.

In re interpretations, yeah, admittedly weak skills here. I do think it's interesting that seemingly more spoilers are starting to leak out than previously.
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Old 2012-04-10, 10:36   Link #323
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Originally Posted by cyberdemon View Post
Considering Mikono has been pushed from the beginning, it means she's may not actually be Silvia. Zessica could very well be her. Kagura always seems to skip past her without even trying to smell her. Even this episode he already picked up Mikono's scent and just didn't try to sniff out anyone else.
I don't quite understand why the recurring plot line would (should) not be the obvious plot line/foreshadowing.

If Zessica has even a hint of Sylvie, when Kagura was all but two inches from her as he ran past, you'd think he'd notice. He notices just about everything else and that, if anything, would be an egregious plot hole. Like I said, it makes more sense for shu-shu to be Sylvie than it does for Zessica at this point.

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Originally Posted by miketyson View Post
Vena: I meant the other way, Zessica has had arguably strange-ish reactions to Kagura (albeit momentary reactions) all of the three brief moments she's encountered him (except, ironically enough, in episode 6, where she had none to speak of). It's nothing huge, but they'd definitely be (in hindsight) early clues if -- and I do mean *if*, -- we were to wind up with something like Kagura = Apollo, Zessica is Sylvie, and Mykage's just gotten Kagura mindscrewed-enough not to recognize her.

In re interpretations, yeah, admittedly weak skills here. I do think it's interesting that seemingly more spoilers are starting to leak out than previously.
Strange reactions to Kagura? She met him for the first time this episode and this was her first reaction *to him*. Her vision certainly doesn't count because her reaction to that (as the last episode showed) was not: "I wonder who that is..." but "Amata you're going to be abandoned!" Unless I'm not thinking straight but I don't recall any other reactions from her. (Want to be a champ and clear up what I'm apparently forgetting?)

More interest in the show... or more people making shit up and throwing around the words *spoiler*. And, again, I don't think the last translation on Sylvie is as poignant as people are making it out to be but that may just be me. It's along the lines of the spoilers with Kagura and Amata *seemingly* being who we think they are.
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Old 2012-04-10, 10:49   Link #324
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Zessica being tree of life would explain all the flowers in the opening and the knowledge about Apollon and Silvie or maybe she very well listened to teachers.
Mikono really has all cards for a twist.
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Old 2012-04-10, 10:50   Link #325
kuromitsu
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Just a note: you're ignoring Alisia. :3 She wore the trademark Slyphie locks even out of costume, and there must be a reason why she was chosen by Altair (other than Izumo had the hots for her)... sure, she probably had flight powers, if not wings, but Amata has flight powers and is not the strongest element, so there must be something more to it.

As for Zessica, I think she'll be the focus of the biggest twist. Her being the tree of life wouldn't make a lot of sense (since she's supposedly mortal and the tree of life is... well, the tree of life, besides Wolf's Rain already did the girl-as-the-tree-of-life thing back in what, 2003), but at this point anything is possible. (Plus, if she was a Tree of Life Mykage would be a lot more interested in her...)
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Old 2012-04-10, 10:52   Link #326
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Vena: the Zessica-events I'm thinking of are all her unnaturally tensing up. From memory:

Ep 1: when Kagura's mech is prancing around on the ground Zessica lets go of the controls, clutches herself, and says something along the lines of (ano kedamono no you na ... ikikata? I think it was). To me her reaction seemed out of place, and with my wikipedia-derived superficial knowledge of genesis I thought there might be something to it...(only to have her disappear for many subsequent episodes).

Ep-whatever: during the invasion arc when Zessica blasts Kagura away from Amata and Mikono she's similar got that stiff-body, clenched teeth going on. Obvious interpretation: terrified that Kagura might kill Amata. Possible alternate interpretation: involuntary past-life bad memories surfacing?

This ep: that momentary deer-in-headlights look while Kagura rushes straight past her, with (shock? surprise?) that he just runs by? Obvious interpretation: frightened by frightening situation. Possible alternate interpretation: more past-life memories momentarily bubbling up?

As you can see, these are more along the lines of "*if* she turns out to be the real Sylvie, you could go back and interpret them as subtle clues", but they're really just small things that don't mean much of anything in isolation (and, e.g., could be someone other than Sylvie's memories bubbling up...).

kuromitsu: if anything, Alisia's story may turn out to be something of a reversal of the original myth, no? Did she crossed over to save another world out of love...
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Old 2012-04-10, 11:02   Link #327
pingva
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Originally Posted by kuromitsu View Post
Just a note: you're ignoring Alisia. :3 She wore the trademark Slyphie locks even out of costume, and there must be a reason why she was chosen by Altair (other than Izumo had the hots for her)... sure, she probably had flight powers, if not wings, but Amata has flight powers and is not the strongest element, so there must be something more to it.

As for Zessica, I think she'll be the focus of the biggest twist. Her being the tree of life wouldn't make a lot of sense (since she's supposedly mortal and the tree of life is... well, the tree of life, besides Wolf's Rain already did the girl-as-the-tree-of-life thing back in what, 2003), but at this point anything is possible. (Plus, if she was a Tree of Life Mykage would be a lot more interested in her...)
This episode Mykage led Zessica and Amata to Kagura and Mikono. Why? I have no idea. He could take Mikono to Altair, but he even didn't care about it. This leads me to believe that his goal was related to Amata, maybe he even wanted him to power up.
I wonder why Alicia went to Altair in her movie get up and why Amata saw that it was Aquarion EVOL which was taking his mother.
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Old 2012-04-10, 11:09   Link #328
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Originally Posted by pingva View Post
Zessica being tree of life would explain all the flowers in the opening and the knowledge about Apollon and Silvie or maybe she very well listened to teachers.
Mikono really has all cards for a twist.
At this point it would be pretty difficult to explain how Kagura 's nose has been mistaken so much (as well as the déjà vu feelings of Mikono) and why is Mikage pushing for MikonoxKagura while Fudou is opposing it if she's not Sylvie.

So I'm going by the splitted soul explanation if the spoiler is legit.

Not taking the spoiler in count and the authors love for twist, I think Vena's theory is the one I'm the most willing to accept at the moment. Though it ldoesn't fit perfectly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pingva View Post
This episode Mykage led Zessica and Amata to Kagura and Mikono. Why? I have no idea. He could take Mikono to Altair, but he even didn't care about it. This leads me to believe that his goal was related to Amata, maybe he even wanted him to power up.
I wonder why Alicia went to Altair in her movie get up and why Amata saw that it was Aquarion EVOL which was taking his mother.
My theory. His mother's soul is in the Aquarion.

Hence those memories with the Aqaurion stlking him. Probably just to symbolize his mom still keeping an eye on his little boy.
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Old 2012-04-10, 11:10   Link #329
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Originally Posted by kuromitsu View Post
As for Zessica, I think she'll be the focus of the biggest twist. Her being the tree of life wouldn't make a lot of sense (since she's supposedly mortal and the tree of life is... well, the tree of life, besides Wolf's Rain already did the girl-as-the-tree-of-life thing back in what, 2003), but at this point anything is possible. (Plus, if she was a Tree of Life Mykage would be a lot more interested in her...)
I feel like you could say the same thing for her being Sylvie as well, no one has paid any attention to her.

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Originally Posted by miketyson View Post
Ep 1: when Kagura's mech is prancing around on the ground Zessica lets go of the controls, clutches herself, and says something along the lines of (ano kedamono no you na ... ikikata? I think it was). To me her reaction seemed out of place, and with my wikipedia-derived superficial knowledge of genesis I thought there might be something to it...(only to have her disappear for many subsequent episodes).

Ep-whatever: during the invasion arc when Zessica blasts Kagura away from Amata and Mikono she's similar got that stiff-body, clenched teeth going on. Obvious interpretation: terrified that Kagura might kill Amata. Possible alternate interpretation: involuntary past-life bad memories surfacing?

This ep: that momentary deer-in-headlights look while Kagura rushes straight past her, with (shock? surprise?) that he just runs by? Obvious interpretation: frightened by frightening situation. Possible alternate interpretation: more past-life memories momentarily bubbling up?
I had forgotten the first episode events but I'm pretty sure you're really stretching the events of Episode 13. That being said, this really is piss poor setting up of her being Sylvie all of a sudden especially in context of Kagura being Apollon as, like we've both said now, he's not so much as batted an eye in her general direction (to many plot holes with how little he's reacted to her, read: not at all, ever).

The only way I can see this twist working out is that, as Mykage said, Jin's actions awaken the Wings of the Sun but in saying this he isn't referring to Amata (which I still find perplexing because Jin's actions didn't do jack with regards to Amata) but is instead referring to Kagura's awakening in Ep.11 which Mykage enabled through Jin or, somehow, Zessica is the wings since she did gain motivation from her fight with Jin. But this twist just leaves me gosh-darned confused:

Zessica and Kagura are actually the aspects of Apollo: Wings and Apollon?
Amata and Mikono are actually the aspects of Sylvia: ??? and Sylphie?

Sure, that's a hell of a twist regarding who is who.
Conversely, if Kagura is the wings:

Kagura is the Wings.
Mikono is ??? (Touma? Sure.).
Amata is Apollon (color me blue with confusion).
Zessica is Sylphie (sure...).

Wtf.
Or!

Kagura is Touma.
Mikono is the Wings.
Amata and Zessica are a Chinese finger trap.

Somehow the last one makes more sense...

Quote:
Originally Posted by pingva View Post
This episode Mykage led Zessica and Amata to Kagura and Mikono. Why? I have no idea. He could take Mikono to Altair, but he even didn't care about it. This leads me to believe that his goal was related to Amata, maybe he even wanted him to power up.
I wonder why Alicia went to Altair in her movie get up and why Amata saw that it was Aquarion EVOL which was taking his mother.
To break their bond, is my guess. In doing it he damaged Amata and Mikono's relationship (to what degree, we've yet to see). But that does seem to have been his goal.

I'll be damned if the old, old guesses we had pan out: Kagura is the tool by which Mykage is trying to remove Mikono from Amata, not because Kagura-Mikono are what he's after but because he wants Amata + Paper Bag Girl.
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Old 2012-04-10, 11:18   Link #330
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Even better, he said loves. I don't even dare to try and predict what he meant...
I'm pretty sure he said LOVE not LOVES...
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Old 2012-04-10, 11:19   Link #331
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Vena: oh don't get me wrong, I'm not pushing the theory, and I think it's a stretch for 13 *and* 15. But, the writers do seem to be putting stuff in to be reinterpreted later...like in episode 6, at this point, I think it's not unreasonable to claim that Mikono might've been (semi-consciously) asking *Amata* to forgive Kagura back then, too (which is far from a reasonable/likely guess in context...and not even my first guess at an eventual alternate interpretation, either).

Zessica's reactions to Kagura seem just a bit too done-up to be nothing, but if they amount to something it's currently 100% unclear what that might be.
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Old 2012-04-10, 11:24   Link #332
Zuul
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Vena: oh don't get me wrong, I'm not pushing the theory, and I think it's a stretch for 13 *and* 15. But, the writers do seem to be putting stuff in to be reinterpreted later...like in episode 6, at this point, I think it's not unreasonable to claim that Mikono might've been (semi-consciously) asking *Amata* to forgive Kagura back then, too (which is far from a reasonable/likely guess in context...and not even my first guess at an eventual alternate interpretation, either).

Zessica's reactions to Kagura seem just a bit too done-up to be nothing, but if they amount to something it's currently 100% unclear what that might be.
If they want to push Zessica as Sylvie, they'd better start to be less subtle soon.

It's needs some build up to not feel ass-pullish.

There are still plenty episodes left, but I'm tired of guessing who is who.
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Old 2012-04-10, 11:31   Link #333
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I think I got what is happening here. It is rather ironic. So you remember apollonius was first with his gay lover thoma? Then apollonius fell in love with celiane, so this is story repeating itself in rather ironic way with apollon getting a taste of what thoma might have felt when silvie falls in love with some one else.

Thoma(past lover)-apollonius-celiane-scorpius(third element)
Apollon-silvie-amata(new lover)-zessica

So in this series mikono dies with former lover promises to meet amata 12000 years later? On the bright side since I am zess fan, silvie turns into stalker next time 12000 years later while amata falls in love with someone else.

So was created story from 24000 years ago.
LOL I quite like this setup too...seeing as Apollon and Sylvie's love will finally be resolved during this time and then Mikono and Amata's love being resolved 12,000 years later LOL...but then again Mikono and Amata's love now could end up like Apollon and Sylvie's love in your setup...so in the end 12,000 years is a heck of a long time especially if you are reincarnated over and over again during that period...I mean there isn't a time frame to be reincarnated right?? And as much as I really truly love the idea of a 'love that transcends time' if your reborn entirely different from your past self and have no memories doesn't that justify that you have found resolve within yourself and you want to move forward?
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Old 2012-04-10, 11:47   Link #334
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LOL I quite like this setup too...seeing as Apollon and Sylvie's love will finally be resolved during this time and then Mikono and Amata's love being resolved 12,000 years later LOL...but then again Mikono and Amata's love now could end up like Apollon and Sylvie's love in your setup...so in the end 12,000 years is a heck of a long time especially if you are reincarnated over and over again during that period...I mean there isn't a time frame to be reincarnated right?? And as much as I really truly love the idea of a 'love that transcends time' if your reborn entirely different from your past self and have no memories doesn't that justify that you have found resolve within yourself and you want to move forward?
lot of people hated toma. he was like a creepy stalker with his obsession when you see kagura/apollon don't you see the similarities? toma wasn't afraid to kill people and kagura is pretty much like that despite the whole he is innocent soul who mikono might feel for etc.

i liked apollo, i don't know if i like that he turned into creepy stalker this time around though.

if people sympathize with kagura(to an extent i do), wouldn't you feel bad for toma as well?
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Old 2012-04-10, 12:00   Link #335
Vena
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Originally Posted by miketyson View Post
Vena: oh don't get me wrong, I'm not pushing the theory, and I think it's a stretch for 13 *and* 15. But, the writers do seem to be putting stuff in to be reinterpreted later...like in episode 6, at this point, I think it's not unreasonable to claim that Mikono might've been (semi-consciously) asking *Amata* to forgive Kagura back then, too (which is far from a reasonable/likely guess in context...and not even my first guess at an eventual alternate interpretation, either).

Zessica's reactions to Kagura seem just a bit too done-up to be nothing, but if they amount to something it's currently 100% unclear what that might be.
Sure... I guess on this whole *if* thing but one of the largest differences in that correlation with Mikono/Zessica is that, since episode one, we've had the dynamic of Mikono + Kagura driving the plot. Their connection is an established thing (similarly, Kagura's speech flip with Mikono making sense in hindsight is also going on a long running and established plot line (and even has a sort of foreshadowing/allusion done with it in regards to Amata's flying boners)) whereas the *if*s with Zessica have no establishment towards Kagura at all (be it a lack of reaction from the latter or the need to really extrapolate for much of anything on the former). It's an afterthought that, like I said before, has less of an established base to be our Chekov's Gun than Shu-Shu being Sylvia. I consider such applications of Chekov's Gun, no matter how revelatory they might be in hindsight, piss poor plot construction.

Just break down this show into allocations of time:
15 Episodes: Kagura and Mikono, the former's infatuation/obsession with latter and the latter's confusion with the former, have been the gas pedal to our story.
15 Episodes: Amata and Mikono dancing around the question, and forming a relationship.
7(15, vague and based on interpretation) Episodes: Zessica building up towards Amata, falling in love, Cassandra syndrome, etc.
15 Episodes: Of everyone focusing on Mikono except for Izumo who was interested in Alicia and, at some point, Zessica as the top candidate for Eve.
...
But! Oh ho ho! We tricked you and the entire first half (and then some) of this show was a fake out! (Oh, and MIX is totally gay, Andy is actually an agent for Altair and simply wooing the ladies to take them back, Sazanka is straight and not a fujoshi, and all the other nonsense I can think of to make my point.) /sarcasm

This sort of set-up is a bait and switch of the worst caliber that often times indicates a poor base of concept for a story, and is usually found in shows where the plot has no way to drive itself forward except for by idiotic plot twist after plot twist after plot twist (for recent examples look to Guilty Crown...).

Call me naive, but I'd like to hope that this show would try and keep some of its integrity. They did a bang-up job (read: good) with building up Yunoha, then adding Jin, and making it believable that the isolated girl would help and befriend the lonely boy. These details were established off the bat for Jin, and quickly brought in for Yunoha early on in the show.
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Old 2012-04-10, 12:08   Link #336
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Frankly, I'm a bit confused by Mykage's words at the end of the episode.

"The rebirth of the forbidden love"

If I remember correctly, Apollo and Sylvia weren't forbidden lovers at all. That would fall more into Apollonius and Celianne.

Unless, the forbidden love means that defying your fate/destiny, which would then fall into Mikono and Amata. In case she is the real Sylvie, and if she does love Amata, then her loving him would be forbidden as it would defy her fate/destiny.
But seeing as Mikono and Kagura are both living on different planets, then that could also mean its forbidden.

But, I'd like to think the latter--that and Apollonius and Celianne if that might be the case.

And Mykage not answering to Kagura when he got a hold of Mikono, I think he's waiting for Amata to awaken as someone, or show him his powers.

That or he's a huge troll.---which I will take this one because I'll confuse myself more.
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Old 2012-04-10, 12:14   Link #337
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lot of people hated toma. he was like a creepy stalker with his obsession when you see kagura/apollon don't you see the similarities? toma wasn't afraid to kill people and kagura is pretty much like that despite the whole he is innocent soul who mikono might feel for etc.

i liked apollo, i don't know if i like that he turned into creepy stalker this time around though.

if people sympathize with kagura(to an extent i do), wouldn't you feel bad for toma as well?

Well I agree with what you are saying, I mean I don't hate Kagura either (damn, I fell for his sexy moe in this episode...I re-watched it like 7 times already!!! Arrghh!!)...and I did feel a slight remorse for Touma during Sousei No Aquarion like at the very end (lol)...Like what Mikono said about Kagura "He seems like a lost dog" (not the actual quote from the episode...which number I have forgotten...sorry) but maybe his beast form represents that...I read in a entirely unrelated forum that a black wolf with red eyes represents an old and lost soul, that had done bad things in the past...
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Old 2012-04-10, 12:24   Link #338
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ZEN stated the same thing in episode 5 when Kagura met up with Amata and Mikono
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Old 2012-04-10, 12:48   Link #339
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lot of people hated toma. he was like a creepy stalker with his obsession when you see kagura/apollon don't you see the similarities? toma wasn't afraid to kill people and kagura is pretty much like that despite the whole he is innocent soul who mikono might feel for etc.
The similarities are only superficial, though.

Spoiler for Touma:
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Old 2012-04-10, 13:02   Link #340
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Well I still don't know where I stand with the spoilers even if they are written in Japanese. I mean are they from a reliable source and what interview (with Kawamori-san perhaps??)...If they are reincarnated MIND, BODY, AND SOUL could it be like this:

MIND: ? Zessica or Mikono

BODY: Kagura

SOUL: Amata (most likely)

This anime is listed for 26 Episodes correct? So we pretty much have quite a few more episodes for further development and twists to surface...but comparing to Sousei No Aquarion we pretty much new by Ep 12 onwards who was Apollonius's reincarnation and pretty much Ep 24 or 25 (either one) we found out that Sirius and Sylvia were both reincarnations of Celiane. So by the looks of things we wont really know till the very last couple of episodes (which actually shits me off...damn it!! damn it!!) but in all honesty I never felt any trolling to begin with from Sousei No Aquarion, and believe me I watched that series before I started watching Evol (3 times!!) but maybe cause the character designs were a bit more obvious...I hope Kawamori-san does not troll us like he did with Macross F (OMFG!!!!...I will send him a dozen friggin PINEAPPLES if he does!!!) or like in SDFM in regards to Minmay, Misa and Hikaru triangle ( I was like WTH...WTH...WTH!!!)
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