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Old 2012-04-09, 12:50   Link #2461
Vexx
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The scaling isn't perfect... but I'm *mostly* fine with that. I should have certain situations it turns out better to "run away til other day" from. However, it can get frustrating:

I did have one situation where a low-level was in a dungeon with one of those "can't retreat can't go forward til boss is dead" situations. The boss was one-shot violating her every time. Very frustrating, one reload - I just resorted to 'god mode' but that was incredibly unsatisfying. So I tried it again and did this: she ran like a rabbit on fire to the zone door, zoned and then ran like hell til the boss stopped hurling death bolts at her. She went back later when she'd grown a bit and barbequed him.

There are mods that affect gameplay, ones that make damage more realistic (e.g. arrow to the head? you dead.) and mods that change how mobs scale. I haven't tried any of them though.
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Old 2012-04-09, 14:01   Link #2462
Paranoid Android
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NOOO I just screwed up my game with two conflicting mods and no back up savefile DDDD: /cry

I wish there was a mod that scales selective mobs. Or mobs of certain area. I simply hated Oblivion's everything scales mechanic.

I auto scale the difficulty by playing with my own rules, like never increase my health past 100 and Master lvl only. I literally get killed by a mud crab in two hits wearing full ebony

There's a add-on mod for WARZONE, called WARZONE fort mod or something. It adds these forts across skyrim that holds Imperials and they're filled with boss-class soldiers (commanding officers) that scale with you. The scaling is customizable and they can scale at 10x your level (RAPE). I didn't get this mod though. My friend did and he said it wasn't stable D:


Anyone use the population mod that puts 10 more generic NPC at every city/town? Anyway to increase that? I mean +10 people to places like Markath, Whiterun or Solitude is not noticeable at all. I want to make Whiterun look like Singapore D:
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Old 2012-04-10, 11:59   Link #2463
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Originally Posted by Detective-san View Post
Even after switching it to Master?
Yea, Master difficulty is not enough challenge if the character has max smithing.

Its a bit less fun if you have to make yourself weak so the monsters can kill you, compared to being strong but there are still monsters that can kill you.
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Old 2012-04-10, 13:02   Link #2464
synaesthetic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
There are mods that affect gameplay, ones that make damage more realistic (e.g. arrow to the head? you dead.) and mods that change how mobs scale. I haven't tried any of them though.
The locational damage mods make playing a stealthy archer actually worth it. Even with the best bows and arrows and all the archery sneak attack talents, it's still really hard to pull off a one-hit-kill with archery in this game.

Add the headshot mods and suddenly the bow becomes a deadly weapon--in both your hands and the hands of your enemies.

I went into Skyrim wanting to play a sniper, but unlike Fallout 3/NV I had a hell of a time killing enemies in one shot from a distance, even with zoom/bullet-time powers and lots of archery buffing potions and equipment. In the end I just switched to backstab and stacked gear, potions and enchantments to the point where my backstabs would one-shot any enemy in the game, including elder dragons, dwarven humongous mecha, draugr deathlords and dragon priests. They were hitting for some crazy amount of damage, well over 2000 per backstab.
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Old 2012-04-10, 14:27   Link #2465
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Hey, I went browsing.... syn, are you using the Deadly Archery mod or the Lethal Archery mod (or what mod are you using)? There's also a Deadly Headshots WIP mod....

I have a character who is trying to be a primary archer (o follower, I knew you well <pulls fatal arrow out of follower>).
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Old 2012-04-10, 14:45   Link #2466
Paranoid Android
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Is it really that difficult with archery? I don't have archery modded at all and most things die in a few hits. I can usually land 3 arrows before anything reaches me and I can kite anything that's not magic based.

Did you buff those mobs or something. The dagger sneak attack doesn't feel nearly as strong as you claim it is. I mean it's only a few multiplier but it only works once before you are detected. Where archery is ranged and you can land one x3 sneak attack and several shots after (flinch perk)
.
As for magic based mobs like dragon priest, I carry 5 truckloads of Cheese Wheels.
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Old 2012-04-10, 14:54   Link #2467
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Archery's always been a weak point in the Elder Scrolls series, needing mods and patches to make it viable. You should've seen the disaster that was Morrowind's archery functions.
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Old 2012-04-10, 15:03   Link #2468
Vexx
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Its not *terrible* in Skyrim (archery, that is) but having done a fair amount of actual archery -- the game is lacking in some immersion aspects. Lets face it, if I put a medieval arrow into your eye socket, you simply aren't going to charge up the hill at me. You aren't going to do *anything*. If I put it in your throat, you're going to blow a spray of blood and go down gurgling. A limb shot or a body shot.... you might be enraged enough to come charging (especially if you're high on Forsworn drugs ) or at least take cover and do something about the arrow first.

Though that last bit is more of an AI issue. I like AI that exhibits some degree of self-preservation

I'm actually fine with the way daggers are handled (perks are from sneak mode not from 1h) because once you lose stealth... its really "bring a dagger to a sword/gun fight" as it really is (RUN!!! RUN FASTER!!)
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Old 2012-04-10, 15:21   Link #2469
synaesthetic
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@Vexx: Lethal Archery. I don't have many mods installed (Skyrim doesn't really need much, it's a great game even vanilla), but that was one of the things I wanted to address. I had a blast as a sniper in Fallout 3 and New Vegas, but the same playstyle is impossible to recreate in Skyrim without mods.

Re: dagger to a sword fight, I have Chillrend for that purpose, and I have favorited both my ancient DB armor (backstab mode) and my Nightingale armor (hack and slash mode). If I get detected before stabby-tiems, I switch to the other gear. Chillrend does such an absurd amount of damage on its own that with power attacks and dropping Mayhem bombs I can fairly easily wipe out entire groups with little trouble.

Usually though, one on one? I just stab them once in the ass and they die. The game occasionally glitches and registers the hit as a normal hit and not a backstab, though. But elder dragons, dwarven mechs, giants, draugr deathlords... if I can get the drop on them (abusing invis potions and the Nocturnal vanishing talent) they're dead in one hit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paranoid Android View Post
Did you buff those mobs or something. The dagger sneak attack doesn't feel nearly as strong as you claim it is. I mean it's only a few multiplier but it only works once before you are detected. Where archery is ranged and you can land one x3 sneak attack and several shots after (flinch perk)
.
As for magic based mobs like dragon priest, I carry 5 truckloads of Cheese Wheels.
My assassin character gets a 30x multiplier on dagger sneak attack (15x from talents and then double damage from ancient brotherhood gloves) and I carry the strongest dagger in the game (Blade of Woe) which has max upgrades. With 100 one-handed and all the damage-increasing 1H talents, the dagger's per-hit damage is 67. Multiply that by 30 and you get a big number.

I have not yet encountered an enemy that doesn't die in one backstab. This is with no mods, completely vanilla.
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Old 2012-04-10, 15:26   Link #2470
Anh_Minh
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Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
Its not *terrible* in Skyrim (archery, that is) but having done a fair amount of actual archery -- the game is lacking in some immersion aspects. Lets face it, if I put a medieval arrow into your eye socket, you simply aren't going to charge up the hill at me. You aren't going to do *anything*. If I put it in your throat, you're going to blow a spray of blood and go down gurgling. A limb shot or a body shot.... you might be enraged enough to come charging (especially if you're high on Forsworn drugs ) or at least take cover and do something about the arrow first.
Well, technically, if three guys start hacking at me with swords and axes, I'm not just going to stand there to see how slowly they hurt me either, but here we are...
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Old 2012-04-10, 15:49   Link #2471
DuoRanger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by synaesthetic View Post
@Vexx: Lethal Archery. I don't have many mods installed (Skyrim doesn't really need much, it's a great game even vanilla), but that was one of the things I wanted to address. I had a blast as a sniper in Fallout 3 and New Vegas, but the same playstyle is impossible to recreate in Skyrim without mods.

Re: dagger to a sword fight, I have Chillrend for that purpose, and I have favorited both my ancient DB armor (backstab mode) and my Nightingale armor (hack and slash mode). If I get detected before stabby-tiems, I switch to the other gear. Chillrend does such an absurd amount of damage on its own that with power attacks and dropping Mayhem bombs I can fairly easily wipe out entire groups with little trouble.

Usually though, one on one? I just stab them once in the ass and they die. The game occasionally glitches and registers the hit as a normal hit and not a backstab, though. But elder dragons, dwarven mechs, giants, draugr deathlords... if I can get the drop on them (abusing invis potions and the Nocturnal vanishing talent) they're dead in one hit.



My assassin character gets a 30x multiplier on dagger sneak attack (15x from talents and then double damage from ancient brotherhood gloves) and I carry the strongest dagger in the game (Blade of Woe) which has max upgrades. With 100 one-handed and all the damage-increasing 1H talents, the dagger's per-hit damage is 67. Multiply that by 30 and you get a big number.

I have not yet encountered an enemy that doesn't die in one backstab. This is with no mods, completely vanilla.
mehunes dagger is better than the astrid's dagger
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Old 2012-04-10, 15:59   Link #2472
synaesthetic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DuoRanger View Post
mehunes dagger is better than the astrid's dagger
It's not. The base damage is lower, and its enchantment never fires. I used it for several hours, killing a wide range of enemies and the enchantment never once activated.

Both my Mehrune's Razor and Blade of Woe are upgraded to "epic" and Blade of Woe has higher damage.
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Old 2012-04-10, 20:25   Link #2473
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
Its not *terrible* in Skyrim (archery, that is) but having done a fair amount of actual archery -- the game is lacking in some immersion aspects. Lets face it, if I put a medieval arrow into your eye socket, you simply aren't going to charge up the hill at me. You aren't going to do *anything*. If I put it in your throat, you're going to blow a spray of blood and go down gurgling. A limb shot or a body shot.... you might be enraged enough to come charging (especially if you're high on Forsworn drugs ) or at least take cover and do something about the arrow first.

Though that last bit is more of an AI issue. I like AI that exhibits some degree of self-preservation
The issue is that Skyrim isn't Mass Effect style cover combat with chest high walls everywhere. Making Arrows kill in one hit means it can and will happen to the Dragon Born during bandit battles. Excess damage potential of arrows via head shots means it can become luck based whether you survive an encounter with thugs.

Head shot kills as a mechanic is fun only when you get regular cover everywhere. That just isn't going to happen in a TES game without ruining the landscape.
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Old 2012-04-10, 20:39   Link #2474
Vexx
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Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
The issue is that Skyrim isn't Mass Effect style cover combat with chest high walls everywhere. Making Arrows kill in one hit means it can and will happen to the Dragon Born during bandit battles. Excess damage potential of arrows via head shots means it can become luck based whether you survive an encounter with thugs.

Head shot kills as a mechanic is fun only when you get regular cover everywhere. That just isn't going to happen in a TES game without ruining the landscape.
Ah, good point.... hiding in the "tall jungle grass" or brush is kind of a false sense of security as well. I don't know if the mods only affect the player character or not -- and depends on how the AI targets I guess (e.g. fire as soon as any body part is engaged?, etc)
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Old 2012-04-10, 20:39   Link #2475
synaesthetic
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The archery mods usually don't make a headshot instant death. What they do is make a sneak attack headshot do as much or close to as much damage as a backstab. Since the player character rarely gets hit by sneak attacks (and can quite easily become critical hit immune with gear), it buffs the player more than the enemies.

But more than that it makes playing a stealthy sniper much more possible. In vanilla Skyrim, you're not going to one-shot-kill with archery except on weak human enemies. This is in stark contrast to Fallout New Vegas, where my sniper girl Courier can one-shot a Deathclaw at several hundred meters.
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Old 2012-04-10, 20:46   Link #2476
Vexx
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Originally Posted by synaesthetic View Post
The archery mods usually don't make a headshot instant death. What they do is make a sneak attack headshot do as much or close to as much damage as a backstab. Since the player character rarely gets hit by sneak attacks (and can quite easily become critical hit immune with gear), it buffs the player more than the enemies.

But more than that it makes playing a stealthy sniper much more possible. In vanilla Skyrim, you're not going to one-shot-kill with archery except on weak human enemies. This is in stark contrast to Fallout New Vegas, where my sniper girl Courier can one-shot a Deathclaw at several hundred meters.
Well... all I'm looking for is a slight nudge for certain kinds of hits (extra damage) and I"m willing to take more damage as well (as long as all NPCs aren't "perfect archers" in classic comp-is-cheating style). Will be testing the mods with a forking path game save

Quote:
Originally Posted by synaesthetic View Post
It's not. The base damage is lower, and its enchantment never fires. I used it for several hours, killing a wide range of enemies and the enchantment never once activated.

Both my Mehrune's Razor and Blade of Woe are upgraded to "epic" and Blade of Woe has higher damage.
After a number of hours with the Razor, I decided it was a grand joke of the demon - I just keep it as a back up blade. The Blade of Woe and the Chillrend work pretty well for a combination.

Last edited by Vexx; 2012-04-10 at 21:27.
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Old 2012-04-10, 23:18   Link #2477
Vena
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Started fresh and am going to play this in a more RP manner this time (not going to stack a hundred some world corpses in Breezehome... hopefully) without using the fast travel and with every difficulty set to maximum (tweaked some of the dragons to be less pathetic in CK). Gave myself a follower (custom) right off the bat too.

Gotta say, its a good bit of fun. Like an adventure... that's bloody hard.
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Old 2012-04-10, 23:21   Link #2478
synaesthetic
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I'll probably play a straight-up mage next time.
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Old 2012-04-11, 02:00   Link #2479
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Originally Posted by synaesthetic View Post
I'll probably play a straight-up mage next time.
I have restarted a mage character too. I have heard that it is possible to make your follower immune to spell damage (because the resistance cap only applied to the player.). This was what made me want to play mage again. The most powerful spells normally would kill your follower via collateral damage, so if I can make my follower survive my nuking, it would be fun to be a mage again.
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Old 2012-04-11, 02:07   Link #2480
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Never bothered with followers. They usually just got killed really easily, or ran away and were completely useless, and messed up my sneaking.

I played FO3 with no follower until the end (so I could make Fawkes go turn the water purifier on) and I didn't use followers extensively in New Vegas until I modded the crap out of the game to make them worthwhile.
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