Why shows like Baccano, Samurai Champloo etc. not produced anymore?

[Dhomochevsky]

Did Samurai Champloo have a plot?
I only remember the trio walking about, doing stuff, getting in trouble...

[Fuyuno]

Just look at Stan Lee's Heroman and Madhouse's Marvel animes. At first glance they are good since they doesn't follow 90% of anime produced nowadays but at same time they felt like very cliched American superhero cartoons.

I think it just unfair to compare something that was more aimed for Western viewership like Cowboy Bebop to more otaku cash-ins like K-On or something like that.

[ddwkc]

Originally Posted by Mugen Jin Fuu

I never really was into anime at all, but I loved
So if anyone can point me to an anime show that avoids all of this, I will gladly watch it.

From any year? Try Legend of the Galactic Heroes, Mushishi, and Planetes. Hyouge Mono and Space Brothers from the newer series seem pretty good. The new Lupin III is pretty nice too.

[Solace]

Suggestions forum. Use it.

[Kizoku Keenan]

Originally Posted by Dhomochevsky

Did Samurai Champloo have a plot?
I only remember the trio walking about, doing stuff, getting in trouble...

it did they were after the girls father the sunflower samurai but it was done in a kind of cowboy bebop way where it was an underlining main plot that was filled out with mini adventures in between.

I think it is hard to find shows like that anymore but they are still out and I'm sure there will always be more to follow the anime industry isn't slowing down any at least I hope not.

[warita]

@Relentless What you say about the anime industry moving on and our tastes not changing along with it is of course very true.

At the same time, anime industry as any other should be interested in making their sales as high as possible and hence I cant phantom, why they dont listen to what fans want.

I find it hard to believe, that I and a handful of others are the only fans yearning for something deeper, less fanservicy and moe infested. It could of course be, that it is just the people who are dissatisfied, who voice their opinion on the forums and the crushing majority who enjoy anime as it is do so in silence.... but still I dont understand why the anime industry doesnt try to cater to all its audience.

[Sheba]

Oh, they listens to what fans want. The japanese fans. Those who collect moe merchandise or mecha models. Not us. Once in a while, when the stars are right/they have money and talent pooled together, they release something like Madoka or Penguindrum. We, the western fans, have to go with the flow, adapt or take what we like or ragequit the hobby. And the anime industry continues to move on without us. Until, sometimes in the future, it crashes like the video game industry did in the early to mid 1980s.

[MisaoFan]

Originally Posted by Sheba

Oh, they listens to what fans want. The japanese fans. Those who collect moe merchandise or mecha models. Not us. Once in a while, when the stars are right/they have money and talent pooled together, they release something like Madoka or Penguindrum. We, the western fans, have to go with the flow, adapt or take what we like or ragequit the hobby. And the anime industry continues to move on without us. Until, sometimes in the future, it crashes like the video game industry did in the early to mid 1980s.

If they (Japanese) can imagine a Queen's Blade rip-off (but with less fanservice, yet still...), then the opinion between Japanese and western differ : the former is very happy about this announcement, while the latter go rage (I'm one of the few exceptions who use exactly the same opinions as the Japanese otakus rather than westerners).
Maybe because the westerners go tired of the ecchi fanservice stuff since the end of the last decade.

[Bri]

Originally Posted by Solace

As for the industry in the US, I long for the day the culture itself is ready to accept animation in general as a viable form of expression for all age groups, and I hope to see the day that the mainstream can recognize great stories as great regardless of format or origination, without prejudice.

Not only cultural acceptance but financial cost as well, makes life hard for animation. Animation offers complete creative control in both visuals and writing but at the expense of a costly and labor intensive production process. The bulk of programming on television is unscripted/half scripted entertainment simply because it's cheap to produce. Among scripted material animation has to compete with live action comedy and drama. Animation as a medium only has a cost advantage over live action when content deviates from reality or highly exaggerates it.

Still, when thinking of cultural acceptance: Unscripted entertainment like reality television, talk shows etc. are popular because of desire with the viewer for realistic human behavior a opposed to acting and a need for "true" stories rather then fiction (though reality tv can be really fake). Animated content may simply be a bridge to far for the mainstream.

I wonder if animation/anime fans have less trouble than average viewers in dealing with abstraction and the suspense of disbelief to enjoy fiction. Maybe they even prefer it to seek it out over "realistic" content?

[SeijiSensei]

Personally I like both. I enjoy shows like Monster or the current Sakamichi no Apollon with realistic character models, but I also enjoy shows like Mononoke or Dennou Coil with more fantastical settings and stylized characters. What matters most to me is the quality of the writing, the depth of the story, and the appeal of the characters, pretty much the same things that I find appealing in live-action productions or written fiction.

Originally Posted by Bri

Animation as a medium only has a cost advantage over live action when content deviates from reality or highly exaggerates it.

I don't think that argument holds true when it comes to moe- or ecchi-flavored comedies, though. Perhaps it's easier to avoid the censors if the nudity is animated and obscured by clouds of steam. I've only seen a couple of live-action Japanese shows, usually ones that are related to anime series I've watched like Nodame Cantabile or Bartender. Are there live-action shows akin to the ecchi shows in late-night anime slots? I'm guessing the answer is no or not many. I realize this isn't entirely a cost issue, but it probably has some bearing on the subject of this thread.

I do think your argument applies to more conventional shows, though. As I believe I said earlier in this thread, one of the explanations I've seen for why so few josei manga are animated is that they are more often adapted into live-action shows which reach much larger audiences than anime.

[Bri]

Originally Posted by SeijiSensei

Personally I like both. I enjoy shows like Monster or the current Sakamichi no Apollon with realistic character models, but I also enjoy shows like Mononoke or Dennou Coil with more fantastical settings and stylized characters. What matters most to me is the quality of the writing, the depth of the story, and the appeal of the characters, pretty much the same things that I find appealing in live-action productions or written fiction.

Sorry, I didn't quite elaborate enough on the direction I was thinking of. What I meant with "realistic" was material that does not involve acting like reality TV, game shows, talk shows etc. versus scripted material like TV-drama or sit-coms. All animation is scripted due to it's very nature, even slice of life.

Originally Posted by SeijiSensei

I don't think that argument holds true when it comes to moe- or ecchi-flavored comedies, though. Perhaps it's easier to avoid the censors if the nudity is animated and obscured by clouds of steam. I've only seen a couple of live-action Japanese shows, usually ones that are related to anime series I've watched like Nodame Cantabile or Bartender. Are there live-action shows akin to the ecchi shows in late-night anime slots? I'm guessing the answer is no or not many. I realize this isn't entirely a cost issue, but it probably has some bearing on the subject of this thread.

I'm tempted to think that ecchi and moe provide the viewers with fantasy characters who are so exaggerated that their impact on the viewer can not be copied by live actors. I'm thinking in a sort of wish fulfillment/ emotional engagement kind of way.

[Random32]

Originally Posted by warita

At the same time, anime industry as any other should be interested in making their sales as high as possible and hence I cant phantom, why they dont listen to what fans want.

They listen to what fans want. It just happens that what the majority of fans want something that a small group of fans don't want.

I find it hard to believe, that I and a handful of others are the only fans yearning for something deeper, less fanservicy and moe infested. It could of course be, that it is just the people who are dissatisfied, who voice their opinion on the forums and the crushing majority who enjoy anime as it is do so in silence....

Anti-fanservice/moe fans tend to be western, while pro-fanservice/moe fans tend to be Japanese. Thus, on an English language anime community, it seems like anti-fanservice/moe is the vast majority, when in reality it isn't. The pro-fanserivce/moe fans are speaking, but they generally tend to speak Japanese.

but still I dont understand why the anime industry doesnt try to cater to all its audience.

The anime industry is a business. If it isn't financially viable to cater to a certain niche in its already niche audience, it won't.

[warita]

Originally Posted by Bri

I wonder if animation/anime fans have less trouble than average viewers in dealing with abstraction and the suspense of disbelief to enjoy fiction. Maybe they even prefer it to seek it out over "realistic" content?

The ability suspend the disbelief definately plays a big role. I think it is partially this, that gives the anime the image of a kiddy show. Children are simply much better at believing the unbelievable and they outgrow it at some point.... the anime fans dont. We retain the ability to lose ourseselves in a good story, even if it takes a good portion of imagination to be able to watch it.

But the phantasy element is likely not the only plus of animes. I personally enjoy the different story telling. Plots tend to be less complex, but more mysterious and even if there is drama, if has the tendency to be relatively linear, which has a soothing effect on me unlike the reality shows with all that fake and arteficial drama in it, that only raises my adrenaline levels.

Speaking of reality shows.... I dont think it is "real problems" that draws people in. In my opinion people like the fake drama and the aggressive reactions. I am not sure why it is so popular, because whenever I see 2 minutes of it on TV, I immediately tense up..... but it seems ot has the opposite effect on the majority of the population. Maybe it enables them to live through conflicts they would like to have in their own life without having to suffer the negative consequencies of having a cat fight with their best friend.

[Sheba]

Watching a reality show is akin to going to a zoo and visit the apes cage. It's to see people flinging feces to each other.

[Bri]

Originally Posted by warita

Speaking of reality shows.... I dont think it is "real problems" that draws people in. In my opinion people like the fake drama and the aggressive reactions. I am not sure why it is so popular, because whenever I see 2 minutes of it on TV, I immediately tense up..... but it seems ot has the opposite effect on the majority of the population. Maybe it enables them to live through conflicts they would like to have in their own life without having to suffer the negative consequencies of having a cat fight with their best friend.

I have the same reaction to it as you. Makes me wonder how common this pov is.

[MisaoFan]

I agree with the latest posts. Whenever western fans saw the anime adaptation announcements of some random generic romcom LN, they say something really harsh like "I'm tired of these kinds of adaptations" or "Congratulations ! Japan, you are now turning legendary Arthurian warriors into cute girls !", especially when they are anti-ecchi fanservice fans. I grow tired of this selfish kind.

[warita]

Originally Posted by MisaoFan

I grow tired of this selfish kind.

Aha, how is it selfish?

[Sheba]

The more hardlined folk of that flock have a tendency to unwarranted self-importance and have the unrealistic expectation that Japan MUST cater to them, all else be damned. Because THEY have watched those kinds of shows, it somehow makes them superior to the other anime fans and that Japan not catering to them must be the result of some crazy moe conspiracy. That's what I have observed in some places like Colony Drop.

[SeijiSensei]

Originally Posted by Bri

Sorry, I didn't quite elaborate enough on the direction I was thinking of. What I meant with "realistic" was material that does not involve acting like reality TV, game shows, talk shows etc. versus scripted material like TV-drama or sit-coms. All animation is scripted due to it's very nature, even slice of life.

I don't really see the relevance of comparing anime to hokey "reality" shows, though. The Japanese certainly have their share of often quite silly live-action game shows and the like though I don't know if they have equivalents to "Survivor." Much of the motivation for reality programming in the US has been their dramatically lower production costs, and thus much higher profits. Game shows fall into the same category.

However, apropos to my earlier comment about live-action ecchi, I did find this program which shows just how far Japanese men will go to see a young girl naked, though with the naughty bits pixellated to protect the fragile eyes and minds of the viewers at home. So maybe there would be an audience for a live-action Yosuga no Sora. My guess is, though, that the fans of such VNs would never accept real women as stand-ins for their animated dream girls.

[MisaoFan]

Very few live-action ecchi titles are released, but the ones that comes to mind are Nana to Kaoru and Futari Ecchi.