2012-04-13, 14:46 | Link #41 | ||
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2012-04-13, 16:16 | Link #42 | |
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With that said, I don't think that's the direction Kubo's going to go with. |
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2012-04-13, 16:36 | Link #43 |
Me, An Intellectual
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Even if he did it would just be a repeat of the Fullbringer arc. We've already had a case "Nakama was secretly gonna betray me but didn't after all". It would just be another recycled plot line.
Anyway it would have to be a retcon. When Ishida told Ichigo about the massacre, he did say that he didn't care about the fact that the Quincies were massacred but was angry about the fact that they unnecessarily left his grandfather to die. He even said the massacre was justifiable, so it's not like he holds any particular solidarity or strong patriotism for quincies. So any significant mixed feelings about fighting quincies would be OOC too.
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2012-04-13, 16:40 | Link #44 | |
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so the spy retcon would be a total hatchet job on the previous story (like's aizen's weak points about alerting SS to rukia's presence in KT, sending renji and byakuya, etc... and then expecting us to believe that was enough proof that aizen planned everything) I also dont believe thats the direction kubo will go, but I'm sure ishida will have to face a choice between the two sides at some point |
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2012-04-13, 16:41 | Link #45 |
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I'm disappointed in the female arrancar (why Kubo has to always use female characters that need to be saved is just silly), but otherwise this was a fun chapter. The revelation of the Quincy was/is expected, but considering their background in the series, I am more than happy to see their inclusion during the final story arc. I can't wait to see where Ishida falls during this crisis (here's hoping Kubo doesn't do a 'Rescue Ishida' arc).
That being said, I also love the idea that Ishida was a plant of some sort. It's unlikely (how would the Quicy know how important Ichigo would become?), but it is still a fun story idea. |
2012-04-13, 19:13 | Link #46 | |
The Ironman
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Still, it wouldn't be entirely unbelievable if Ishida came into contact with this new group sometime during the timeskip, (sorta like how the Fullbringers recruited Chad and no one knew about it). I could see him maybe agreeing not to work with them, but not act against them either.
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2012-04-13, 23:32 | Link #47 | |
Optimus Prime
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We know from the previous arc (the Aizen arc) that Aizen had been studying Ichigo from the time of his birth. This was because he's half shinigami half ... (human?) and for that reason he was of interest to Aizen who was obsessed with evolving the reaches of his own power. Now, who's to say that the Quincy weren't ALSO interested in Ichigo from the beginning for this very reason? If they had previously had an all out war with Soul Society, it makes sense that they would be watching this new hybrid shinigami with a lot of interest. Now go back to Season 1. Ishida was NOT Ichigo's friend to begin with. He could barely tolerate him. Their friendship evolved gradually during the SS arc out of mutual respect for each others' powers. He also realized that Ichigo wasn't a complete dick. Their friendship and Ishida's refusal to continue helping the Quincy might explain the terse relationship he has with his father, as well. Whatever Ishida might have said about the Shinigami/Quincy war should be taken with a grain of salt. He flipped his shit when the Captain let him know about how he'd tortured his grandfather and then did his best to annihilate him. I would argue that Ishida has always been a proud Quincy. It's very much a core part of his character. I can definitely see how he would be conflicted having grown up proud of what he is, hating those who destroyed his clan in a brutal war, and then inevitably becoming friends with one of them. Like James, I doubt Kubo will actually go down this road but it would be interesting if he did.
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2012-04-14, 00:20 | Link #48 |
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To put things in perspective, Ichigo wasn't necessarily needed for any Quincy plans. Specifically, the initial Ishida encounter (unleashing the Hollows on the town) could have been a way to draw out a Shinigami (any Shingami) in order to advance the Quicy plans. The fact that Ishida could use a novice Shinigami (who turned out to be much more) to further the Quincy plans only sweetened the deal. (Though, I admit that the Quincy knowing of Aizen's plans (or at least keeping track of Aizen) is a very interesting prospect, and it requires little in the way of retcon (unlike the intial idea that Aizen had been keeping track of Ichigo all along).)
Whatever the case, Ishida does have a habit of saving Ichigo. Consequently, it is possible that he has always been looking out for him under Quincy orders...or they could just be friends...but that is too boring an answer now ... |
2012-04-14, 02:45 | Link #49 |
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isn't it the same retcon as aizen basically? just more people watching other people and waiting for their particular arc to make a move? if this turns out to be the case, ichigo's life is basically the truman show. it's just layers of spying and biding time to strike
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2012-04-14, 02:46 | Link #50 | |
Me, An Intellectual
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He didn't even think twice about giving up his quincy powers just to annihilate Mayuri.
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Last edited by Haak; 2012-04-14 at 07:49. Reason: typo |
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2012-04-14, 07:46 | Link #51 | |
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Besides we've already had instances in the manga where people questioned whose side Ishida was on; the hollow contest when he was first introduced and during the Fullbring arc. It would make no sense to have it happen a third time, especially so soon after the second time. |
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2012-04-14, 07:52 | Link #52 |
Me, An Intellectual
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I should point this out now to avoid confusion: He definitely does have some Quincy pride but my point is that from what we've seen it shouldn't be anything strong enough for him to seriously consider taking the quincies side if they're truly bad guys.
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2012-04-14, 18:10 | Link #55 |
Optimus Prime
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I agree. I definitely don't think he'd be a traitor to them now. I'm just pointing out that it's not entirely impossible that he was one to begin with. At the beginning of the series, before he became friends with Ichigo, he had a pretty contemptuous attitude towards Shinigami. I don't think it's implausible that if someone on the Quincy side had asked him to gather information about Ichigo and Soul Society that he wouldn't have done it then.
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2012-04-14, 21:21 | Link #57 |
mangaviking
Join Date: Jun 2009
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one thing where this might be retconed in is Sayzel's Lab in HM. If memory serves right the identity of those two bodies Mayuri found in there still has not been revealed? He was strangely interested in his find so it was always assumed there was something special to them. Then everybody assumed Kubo had just forgoten. But maybe he is forgetting so many little details cause they later turn into retcon anchors
So, lez say Aizen or Sayzel caught himself some Vanden. Outa curiosity or whatever. After Aizen is beaten, HM is pretty much forgoten by SS, so the Vanden, searching for their missing members found the remnants of the Lab. They did not find their comrades but they found maybe useful stuff... as for Ishida/Mayuri, I also think he went for him 'personally' as he is such an ass and killed Ishida's granddad. Bear in mind Ishida never held any grudge against any of the captains after that. Well, other than Mayuri himself as he kept doing nasty stuff toIshhida and Renji in HM Only when interacting with Ichigo he used his usual "shinigamis all suck" attitude now and then, and that more like a running gag between the two of them than in earnest. The way he behaves he has not only accepted Ichigo as a good guy but also a number of Ichi's SS friends. Course he doesn't say so directly but oh well, that's where the quincy pride comes in XD
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2012-04-15, 01:41 | Link #58 | |
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2012-04-15, 02:48 | Link #59 |
Optimus Prime
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I never said anything about the Vanden?
I get the impression that the Vanden and the Quincy are opposite entities. One comes from the other, but that doesn't mean their motives are the same. Kind of like the Vizards and the Shinigami.
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