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Old 2005-12-19, 04:56   Link #1
ccardoso
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Speculation about Aizen. [Use spoiler tags for manga]

Hello,
first post after the "big crash" of the forum...
I read the manga and so the recent events in the anime didn't surprise me too much... but in the anime I realized even better how much stronger than all others Aizen is! He owned Hitsugaya, then owned Renji and Ichigo (he stopped tensa zangetsu with a finger!!!) and the fox captain... he seems to be a god to me... I mean he even became the leader of hollows later in the story... so rather than asking "who is really Ichigo?" we should ask "who is really Aizen?". I think a huge part of his power come from his absolute hypnosis... no matter how strong an opponent is, if you can control his five senses then he's just a puppet in your hands and so we can safely assume that Aizen is the strongest simply because he can make all the strong ones his puppets and because he's strong by himself as well.
Is there a way to defeat such an opponent? The only way to resist to Aizen's absolute hypnosis is to be blind... so if one wants to defeat Aizen does he need to become blind?!?

Last edited by NoSanninWa; 2005-12-19 at 15:30.
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Old 2005-12-19, 05:31   Link #2
Desti-Fate
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An attack that doesn't rely on accuracy for success would work, eg. Byakuya's moves. Ichigo's speed could just attack everywhere, and he might hit Aizen before Aizen hit him.

And of course Kaname Tousen would have a pretty huge advantage VS Aizen's shikai. We'd need to know Aizen's bankai before guessing who'd win that fight though...
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Old 2005-12-19, 05:44   Link #3
Greatmaster B
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Aizen's Shikai has the power of complete hynosis if you have seen the release of the Zanpaktou once. That means that going blind or using a blindfold wouldn't help you when you have already seen it (of which you can't be sure because Aizen could have made you forget it happened). The complete hypnosis doesn't seem to require anything than Aizen's will to use his Zanpaktou's Shikai against someone. The only way to defeat it is imho (this is speculation) attacking from a far distance so that the Shikai can't influence you (maybe Ishida could do this) or someone who never fought Aizen wearing a blindfold (maybe Ishin ?). But all who have seen the release once (Hitsugaya,Renji,other Vice-Captains...) have no chance against Aizen because they will be influenced by the Shikai whether they have their eyes closed or not.
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Old 2005-12-19, 05:50   Link #4
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im guessing Aizen's bankai will have something to do with creating an illusion of the terrain, kinda like Tousen's bankai except that its not that but rather resembles the real world. and you can just imagine what kind of tricks he can pull with "his" world( makes ichigo think that its a rock, but actually its a river, etc). Of course, anyone who sees his bankai will be immediately subject to his hypnosis, even after the release.
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Old 2005-12-19, 06:58   Link #5
sarrah
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i think its not a mattar of fact of his banakai ans shikai being so great all of a sudden, but he was probably one of the older living shinigami, having gained immense experience, battle skill, power, over hundreds of years....i mean c'mon he said that he relised that there is no heaven...that means he's been contemplating a lot since he's been in soul society of "is that it?...life ...SS....then start over?"
its all about time...kabu tite therefore is probably gona have him come out with a technique that has all but ONE flaw....so sum1 could beat him,,,, but not easily....

cant wait to see what happens
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Old 2005-12-19, 07:43   Link #6
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I thought so long as you don't see his release you won't be affected... and remember he already cancelled hos release when Unohana and Isane found him at centre 46...

Maybe they should just learn to fight blind-folded all the time.... then Aizen's gonna have a really hard time...

Only thing we need to know now is what his bankai can do...
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Old 2005-12-19, 08:47   Link #7
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but we dont have any clue what the FULL extenet of his nakai can do...so basically we know jack all..so how can any1 find a weakness?
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Old 2005-12-19, 14:17   Link #8
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Yeah, if you've seen it once, you're screwed for life. At least that's the way I took it. That's why he gathered all the VC's and whatnot at one time to show them his ability. I would imagine everyone in Soul Society that has any skill at all, except Tousen, is under his spell.
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Old 2005-12-19, 15:06   Link #9
Kona
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Like some people said... just make sure you dont see his sword being realeased and close your eyes and sense his reaitsu.
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Old 2005-12-19, 16:32   Link #10
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Closing your eyes shouldnt do much .. really ....

Aizen isnt a slouch. In the time you close your eyes ... hes already shadow-stepped up to you and put his zanpaktou in your heart. Gameover.

Counter for his ability? Practise fighting blind ...
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Old 2005-12-19, 16:34   Link #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kona
Like some people said... just make sure you dont see his sword being realeased and close your eyes and sense his reaitsu.
If Hinamori can mask her reiatsu, I think someone of Aizen's level could mask his reiatsu as well.

And there's one other thing that I see seems to keep coming up in the thread. Everyone just keeps mentioning how people should fight blindfolded and whatnot...you're all just focusing on sight. Aizen's Zanpakutou completely entraps all senses, not just sight. Therefore, hearing, touch, smell and taste (why you would need taste in a fight is beyond me but it is a sense) would all be rendered useless as well. A simply blindfold isn't going to work against all that

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Small One
IMHO you just have to avoid seeing his release... so if he is calling out for his sword's name, you have to close your eyes... then he needs to re-seal his sword before he can try again to hypnotise you, which gives you a few seconds to attack.
If you recall Renji's fight against Byakuya, Renji was able to use his Shikai without calling out Zabimaru's name. This surprised Byakuya, since if you can do that, that means that you've achieved Bankai. As such, I doubt Aizen needs to call out the name of his Zanpakutou to release it. Thus, you'd never know if he released it or not.
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Old 2005-12-19, 16:35   Link #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Small One
IMHO you just have to avoid seeing his release... so if he is calling out for his sword's name, you have to close your eyes... then he needs to re-seal his sword before he can try again to hypnotise you, which gives you a few seconds to attack.
A shinigami who has reached bankai doesn't have to use the verbal command for their shikai. As for all the speculation about Aizen's shikai power, I think everyone is overestimating it a little. Sure it's called Complete Hypnosis, but it's still just shikai and for it to be as powerful as it is being made out to be, it would be more powerful than any bankai we've seen so far (or any other release by anyone else, even in the current manga arc). There has to be a weakness somewhere, somehow

Spoiler for manga readers only:
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Old 2005-12-19, 17:07   Link #13
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Maybe you require a huge amount of spiritual energy to break through the hypnosis. Thats the only way I see Ichigo being able to beat him. And cosidering that Ichigo has won practically every battle, him defeating Aizen is only a matter of time. Theres no proof of this anywhere, but Ill say having a high spiritual energy should allow you (your senses) to combat the illusion Aizen creates.
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Old 2005-12-19, 17:27   Link #14
Ikorose
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Well, for those who think that once you see Aizen's shikai, you're in his trap for life:

I'm pretty sure that's not the case. If he chooses to stop the Absolute Hypnosis, then it stops. And, as for that, he's already stopped it in the anime, as everybody knows exactly what is happening, without any of Aizen's Hypnosis being in effect. It's all real.

And even if Ichigo or someone was able to somehow make it so they can see past Aizen's Hypnosis, he'd still have an amazingly hard time to beat Aizen himself. Aizen's done some pretty amazing things, such as easily stopping Ichigo's blade, and...

Spoiler for those who have not read the manga:
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Old 2005-12-19, 18:03   Link #15
sanghyun1990
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Only person that could beat Aizen's shikai is Tousen. Aizen's bankai was never shown, so nobody knows he's full strength.
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Old 2005-12-19, 18:16   Link #16
SuperKnuckles
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanghyun1990
Only person that could beat Aizen's shikai is Tousen. Aizen's bankai was never shown, so nobody knows he's full strength.
I think Aizen can probably strongarm anybody with his pure skills regardless of Shikai or Bankai. His demonarts skills are probably good enough to kill most Shinigami captains.
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Old 2005-12-19, 18:41   Link #17
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This reminds me of that episode of Trigun when Vash had to beat that chick with the eye that seemed to stop time...Her hypnosis was so strong that even if you closed your eyes she could manipulate you thru your four other senses...I would think Aizen's slayer as powerful as it is has some type of fundamental weakness aswell...At the circus when the guy comes out to hypnotize the crowd and make an average man cluck like a chicken there's always somebody that doesn't fall for it :P...

Inflicting some type of physical pain and focusing on it at the same moment as Aizen releases his bankai could be the key (much like Vash's predicament)...After being hypnotized you would still feel the pain and perhaps slip out of it with great will-power...The negative-effect would be Aizen seeing you bleeding and probably killing your a$$, but wouldn't he have to re-sheath his slayer yet again to hypnotize the rest into believing your still alive once he kills you? Or does he automatically control adjustments in the manipulation at all times (which is hard to believe)...In the time it takes to un-sheath his slayer yet again, someone else might be able to figure the deception, much like that medical Shinigami lady from ep 60...

What's scary to me is what does his second Lvl Bankai produce?? (As usual manga-guys zip it) Perhaps he creates an entire hyptno-world of obstacles to fight you while you fight him...Imagine fighting like 10 Aizen's as hyptno-after-images while the real Aizen is flashstepping and leading you into a vortex of fear...Damn, Aizen is a scary mofo to say the least...


edit:
Well I guess I meant to ask was: What's scary to me is what does his bankai produce??? And obviously a second lvl would be mortifying....
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Last edited by wingdarkness; 2005-12-19 at 19:03.
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Old 2005-12-19, 18:47   Link #18
Dark`
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wingdarkness
This reminds me of that episode of Trigun when Vash had to beat that chick with the eye that seemed to stop time...Her hypnosis was so strong that even if you closed your eyes she could manipulate you thru your four other senses...I would think Aizen's slayer as powerful as it is has some type of fundamental weakness aswell...At the circus when the guy comes out to hypnotize the crowd and make an average man cluck like a chicken there's always somebody that doesn't fall for it :P...

Inflicting some type of physical pain and focusing on it at the same moment as Aizen releases his bankai could be the key (much like Vash's predicament)...After being hypnotized you would still feel the pain and perhaps slip out of it with great will-power...The negative-effect would be Aizen seeing you bleeding and probably killing your a$$, but wouldn't he have to re-sheath his bankai yet again to hypnotize the rest into believing your still alive once he kills you? Or does he automatically control adjustments in the manipulation at all times (which is hard to believe)...In the time it takes to un-sheath his bankai yet again, someone else might be able to figure the deception, much like that medical Shinigami lady from ep 60...

What's scary to me is what does his second Lvl Bankai produce?? (As usual manga-guys zip it) Perhaps he creates an entire hyptno-world of obstacles to fight you while you fight him...Imagine fighting like 10 Aizen's as hyptno-after-images while the real Aizen is flashstepping and leading you into a vortex of fear...Damn, Aizen is a scary mofo to say the least...
Aizen has yet to even mention his Bankai. His 'absolute hypnosis' is a result of his Shikai.
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Old 2005-12-19, 18:49   Link #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark`
Aizen has yet to even mention his Bankai. His 'absolute hypnosis' is a result of his Shikai.
Jesus, that's even scarier...

Well I guess I'll modify my previous opinion a bit and say, Damn WTF will his bankai produce??
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Old 2005-12-19, 18:50   Link #20
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We don't even know what his original Bankai does, let alone if he has any other forms of it. But you bring up a great point, WD, bringing in the whole Vash thing. Another interesting thing is that above everyone else, Unohana was the sole person to detect something odd with Aizen's Absolute Hypnosis running about, proving that it isn't so absolute after all. I think that, if someone is going to figure out how a way to look past it, it will be her. Or Urahara/Yoruichi. That duo finds the answers to everything.
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