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Old 2012-04-15, 12:12   Link #21
Klashikari
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bahamut zero View Post
what were these flaws exactly?
The flaws that are often quoted are:
-side characters absolutely not fleshed out (only few could get some backstory, like Yui and Hinata). Heck, the vast majority of the fanbase wanted to know more about them, especially TK.
-The story had way too much momentum issues, due to the switch between comedy and drama. Thus, transitions and build-up were weak.
-Some plot twist executions were considered weak by a good deal of the fans (Yuri's backstory was handled poorly in the anime, same for Yuzuru's memory loss and revelation)
-Lack of expanded material about the "dead world" (the creator of angel player, the origin of such world, absence of adults etc). In fact, the universe of AB could be explored in much greater details than just "kids who died with regrets are thrown there".
-Too short.

Not an exhaustive list, but these are the flaws that are often brought to the table.
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Old 2012-04-15, 12:26   Link #22
Arturia Polaris
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A lot of things are left without any kind of explanation. Many characters are not even heard of... basically everything could have been solved had the time been at Jun Maeda's disposal. It wasn't, and as such, I bet he was also brought to attention on some of HIS flaws.

For example,
Spoiler for AB! Story.:


Cheers;
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Old 2012-04-15, 14:36   Link #23
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Key works, especially those that are headed by Maeda, rely mostly on having a very healthy base of "slice of life", easygoing, comedic moments that reveal character quirks and inter-relationships, poking some clues into their backgrounds through a veneer of geniality. It works in a visual novel format because most of these happen in the trunk, and so moving on to a specific heroine route is not so jarring in terms of the emotional whambulance that hits players in the head precisely because of the time it took to "charge up" the player, as it were, for it.

The problem with the anime format, even before issues of length, is that it requires substantial build-up for Maeda to get his ball rolling and delivering the emotional wham which the fans lap up. However, this was not the case with most of the character highlights that happened here, given that we even had a straight-reveal of Yuri's issues in the second episode, and the episode after that, Iwasawa's climax and backstory reveal all in one sitting - for a character the audience had yet to acclimatize to. And let's not forget Naoe, who quickly became gimmick character Z after his own "route"! (Like, why are we supposed to care about this guy who's been busting the gang's balls for an episode? It's as if I chose the wrong heroine route to go down)



*sigh* I'm remembering there were a ton of music for this... are they gonna reuse those? Either way it means more cd ordering in the far future...
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Old 2012-04-15, 14:52   Link #24
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Originally Posted by Balzac View Post
*sigh* I'm remembering there were a ton of music for this... are they gonna reuse those? Either way it means more cd ordering in the far future...
They'd better. One of the best things about Angel Beats, perhaps the best thing about it altogether, was that incredible soundtrack.

I really want to see individual character routes for Yui and Hinata.
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Old 2012-04-15, 15:05   Link #25
Arturia Polaris
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Angel Beats! OST was one of the best points...

Theme of SSS, Unjust Life, Kanade, Etc... not to mention the OP/ED

Which is why I don't expect the visual novel to take more time to make than Rewrite, as most of the foundation is done, and we also have the OST done.

I just hope they use it of course.

Niker

EDIT: I mean, if Jun Maeda doesn't use this I'm taking a plane to japan to personally shove him down a hole

http://youtu.be/h87kynBO6M8
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Last edited by Arturia Polaris; 2012-04-15 at 15:34. Reason: Adding vid
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Old 2012-04-15, 15:34   Link #26
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Glad to see this is actually beaming a reality now!!! I can't wait for the day it is out! Go Jun go!

Jun has twitter >.>...I should invest in getting it now...
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Old 2012-04-15, 15:48   Link #27
Arturia Polaris
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I don't follow him on twitter because I honestly just hear it from someone else who translates it, etc.

I hate myself for not knowing decent japanese. In any case, it's been 2 years since Angel Beats ended, and According to most people, Key takes like 3 years to work on a novel... I honestly don't think that we are looking at such a far-fetched date as 2015.

Late 2013-Early 2014 we could be seeing Angel Beats! Rocking the visual novel world, and that's being conservative.

Maeda had 2 years since Angel Beats ended to get his thoughts correctly, if He's writing it, it means that he already has everything down on his head and it's only a matter of polishing the story.

Once that is done, Key's other branches start to work. Audio, making CGs, making the engine, etc.

The main thing of the visual novel is the story... and since that is almost done...

Niker
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Old 2012-04-15, 16:35   Link #28
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The foundation is there, but that's only music. In making a visual novel, the system foundation has to be made first, depending on what kind of gameplay Maeda wants to go for. Will it be simple text-based like Clannad, or include minigames like Little Busters!? That's about the only major thing that needs to be established by Key, other than story.

Of course, the announcement could mean they've been working on it quietly. Optimistically, the scenario might be halfway done. So looking at Key's release schedule, this year we have Rewrite's fandisc, with a possible gap for next year OR a release of the trial, like Rewrite had been, unless Key plans on another fandisc/spinoff or doesn't release anything altogether. (bear in mind Key visual arts doesn't just focus on visual novel each year so they might have their hands full first with that Little Busters anime)

For an optimistic comparison of release

2008 Rewrite announced
2009 nothing
2010 Kud Wafter, Trial for Rewrite
2011 Rewrite release
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Old 2012-04-15, 16:42   Link #29
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Originally Posted by Tempester View Post
This has great potential. The fascinating world of Angel Beats can fit well in a large visual novel form. While it's good to see that they're changing the story a bit, I hope they can preserve the excitement and wonder that the good parts of the anime managed to have.

Also, does this mark the return of Maeda Jun to writing visual novels?



I'll pretend that it'll be a 2015 release at the earliest. Don't want to hype myself up for too long.
People made a fan translation of little busters 4 years after it was released, so .....
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Old 2012-04-15, 16:53   Link #30
Arturia Polaris
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I doubt that Little Busters! can be compared with Angel Beats!.

Little busters started as a visual novel. AB! Started as an anime. Theres a HUGE difference in audiences, as people who watched the Anime are going to want to see the novel, so a team might be formed faster than with Little Busters!, and with way more support.

We might be looking at a 1-2 year TL period if it goes slow.

Niker
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Old 2012-04-15, 20:17   Link #31
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by sound of it it seem still around pre production and prone to cancellation like ML3
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Old 2012-04-16, 05:38   Link #32
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Well there's a reason there is no official announcement yet.

Could be that they will only announce when it's a year or so to release.

Anyway, I won't be eagerly looking forward to any dates. When it's out it'll be out and I'll be very happy and that will be that
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Old 2012-04-16, 05:52   Link #33
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Realistically it's either this or they've got something else planned as a company in the meantime. A long time without new major releases is...suicidal, though it would mark the "end of an era" if it turned out to be true.
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Old 2012-04-16, 05:55   Link #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Balzac View Post
Realistically it's either this or they've got something else planned as a company in the meantime. A long time without new major releases is...suicidal, though it would mark the "end of an era" if it turned out to be true.
Is this not Key? Their hands are in full of pies at the moment.....Rewrite wasn't too long ago and while it may be suicidal for most eroge companies....Key is...a giant.

Successful animes tend to do that....
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Old 2012-04-16, 06:01   Link #35
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Granted, like I said, they're pretty busy on other fronts this year (Rewrite Harvest Festa) and the next (Little Busters! anime), but I am pinning on an announcement next year, and then next year followed by another project, perhaps another spinoff - or the Angel Beats!game itself. They...kinda can't take too long in-between resting on their laurels and doing nothing. This is why man invented the milking machine.
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Old 2012-04-16, 07:46   Link #36
Arturia Polaris
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As I said before, I don't think we are too far off from an official announcement... Isn't it VA's 20th anniversary soon? They need a BIG announcement... AB! Fits that perfectly.

In any case, fingers crossed.

Niker

EDIT: Also, having the little busters! Anime done isn't really all that time consuming on Key... They just have to control that JC doesn't go too far off the script
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Last edited by Arturia Polaris; 2012-04-16 at 13:55. Reason: Because yeah
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Old 2012-04-16, 19:49   Link #37
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What I absolutely hated about Saya's route in Little Busters! were the shooting minigame segments. It was hard for me to pass the required parts because of terrible aim.

I would shudder at there being the same here, especially if it involved high-speed shadows flying around your screen. Or a rapidly approaching Tenshi and you had to shoot her to drive her back or else she'd reach you and game over.
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Old 2012-04-16, 19:54   Link #38
Arturia Polaris
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The whole reason I fully support an animated game. Having a Little Busters! Kind of minigame, besides the whole Saya route being a completely f-ed up story sending you two times to the main menu without further explanation...

If the game is properly animated we could see the game being partly easier, but the whole idea of Angel Beats! Has a LOT of guns around so I think its a safe bet that we'll have minigames like that.

I also support a Baseball game, as this is a jun maeda work, that's almost guaranteed.

Niker
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Old 2012-04-16, 20:21   Link #39
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Because we have precedent in the anime, it's a fun pastime to idly speculate on how the game would turn out.

It would be very ground-breaking if instead of the traditional visual novel format of a common route with a set "start" leading in to individual routes, there'd just be Otonashi meeting the SSS and then urged to go on missions. So there's a central hub, which is Yuri's office, where one can pick out missions. The missions might be like Rewrite's Mappy which were freely optional and involve different kinds of minigames, but each mission is actually a developer ploy to establish flags to lead to individual routes. But instead of routes, they'd be character studies, giving the player, as Otonashi, insight on the nature of the afterlife. (people moving on, etc.)

It could go that finishing a route doesn't mean ending, perhaps one is not punted back to the start to begin a new game or load a previous save. Instead the player might be returned to Yuri's office and offered more missions? Leading to another character to explore.

Of course, the plot could start moving forward after finishing one or two characters, the escalation of the war against Tenshi, the arrival of Naoe, the disappearance of key members, befriending Tenshi and her powers going awry, etc.

And then boom, big "epic" conclusion involving an all-out war against the shadows that isn't constrained to episodes 11-13, hopefully with a better mastermind than the guy who lives in the basement. (With a different base as been stated in the above posts, the afterlife might have a different goal to reach or master altogether)

With Key, in their main games at least, there is always something new. Whether it's disjointed narrative but with a set purpose (AIR), lightball/points system mechanic and the establishment of an "after story" trunk route (CLANNAD), or minigames that are fun to play and aren't required (Little Busters!, and then the shift to new writers/paradigms which, even as they follow the tried and tested formula set by previous games, still end up being something refreshing and "novel". (Rewrite) I look forward to the "something new", barring unfortunate delays and acts of God.
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Old 2012-04-16, 22:48   Link #40
Arturia Polaris
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I'm actually wondering as to what made Air, Kanon, Clannad, Little Busters! and Rewrite so great. As visual novels I mean.

What is it that Key tries to appeal to more? I mean what do people who play the VN remember them most by? The laughs or the laughter?

I certainly remember Clannad with its incessant laughing moments (Afterstory was not done by the time I had translated it, I still have it stowed away... maybe up for a reinstall)... Little Busters! ? I remember the training and the unending laughter and antics from everyone... but then Refrain came...

Angel Beats! has chances to make us all bawl like babies and have us laughing our guts out... Of course I expect a mix from this, but I still wonder what it is that makes Key works so addictive?

And will they be looking at the same formula to make it great? Jun Maeda is of course the writer of all the beforementioned works...

So, What would you say you appreciated most of Maeda's past works? And AB! as a whole, and what do you mostly expect to see in a possible VN adaption?

Personally... Characters. CHARACTERS. There were so many characters... Just with GirlDeMo alone you have 5 chicks which can work as a great romance plot for the VN, Then Yuri, Tenshi, Shiina, etc...

PLUS all the Bromance between the rest of the SSS members. If a route is made for each one of them we are looking at at least 25 routes.

That's... a lot

Niker

PS: I'm looking forward to a lot of mini-games. AB! Will literally allow Maeda to go crazy on it. ie: Yurippe's punishments... Shooting games, Baseball...
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