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Old 2012-04-14, 15:34   Link #401
GoldenLand
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Originally Posted by pingva View Post
It's most likely this, it would explain how one woman can bring life to the almost dead planet.
That would make sense. If anyone could do it, it would be the Tree of Life.

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Originally Posted by Vena View Post
So why would wings be odorless but a tree not? Why would a tree smell like Sylvia....
I think your first point there is a different issue. Why bring trees into the question of why Kagura thinks Amata has no smell? If Kagura is Apollo and Amata the Wings, Kagura might have trouble recognising the smell of his own wings. Same goes for if Amata isn't the Wings after all, but Amata and Kagura are still the same person split in some way.

Why a tree would smell like Silvia to Kagura is another matter. I bet there are a lot of cracked out possibilities! Despite appearances, we don't yet have any firm confirmation either that Kagura is Apollo or part of him, or that he's correct about Mikono smelling like Sylvie. But let's say he is correct.

What if it's like Mayumi suggested earlier about Silvia gaining Tree of Life powers because of what happened at the end of Genesis, only in reverse? The Tree of Life could have gained Sylvia's scent.

Or maybe Mikono is part Tree of Life, part Silvia? In which case there would have to be another part of Silvia somewhere. Maybe Zessica.

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Originally Posted by Vena View Post
Remember also that Mykage spoke of two flowers to bloom for a garden. Izumo's eve is likely Zess, Mykage's is Mikono.
It's hard to say what he meant. I hope it'll be something interesting. Mykage certainly isn't above ulterior motives like that one.

Mikono doesn't have to be the Tree of Life: if the Tree really is in the cast and is the "True Eve", it could be someone else. But I like the Mikono-the-tree theory a lot in light of what happened by the graves, with her connection power (...that sounds a lot like composting people...) and the way she went "All of you are going to be born again! And I'll be waiting for you!". It adds a nice extra layer of meaning to if she's the tree.
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Old 2012-04-14, 15:56   Link #402
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Originally Posted by GoldenLand View Post
I think your first point there is a different issue. Why bring trees into the question of why Kagura thinks Amata has no smell? If Kagura is Apollo and Amata the Wings, Kagura might have trouble recognising the smell of his own wings. Same goes for if Amata isn't the Wings after all, but Amata and Kagura are still the same person split in some way.
Of which there has been utterly no indication plot-wise. Thus far, nothing has connected Amata and Kagura aside from Mikono. What I'm looking to do is compare some constants. If Amata is the incarnation of a (powerful) object and has no smell, which is a rather important detail, then the *other* powerful object, one would expect, would also have no smell if we're going by consistency basis of objects being reincarnated having no past odor which Kagura can detect.

I've never heard of dogs who cannot recognize their own odor. Even if the end result is that the two are somehow splits, the reasoning as being presented thus far is a blind grasping of straws. But this is all besides the point, mostly.

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Originally Posted by GoldenLand View Post
Why a tree would smell like Silvia to Kagura is another matter. I bet there are a lot of cracked out possibilities! Despite appearances, we don't yet have any firm confirmation either that Kagura is Apollo or part of him, or that he's correct about Mikono smelling like Sylvie. But let's say he is correct.

What if it's like Mayumi suggested earlier about Silvia gaining Tree of Life powers because of what happened at the end of Genesis, only in reverse? The Tree of Life could have gained Sylvia's scent.
It is less important if Kagura is correct about Mikono (aside from the, as I said, large symbolic ties to the original story's conclusion) what is important is that he detected her specifically and has been locked to her since the first episode. Whatever they are, they are intimately connected. Tree/Wings or Sylvia/Apollo, however you want to twist and turn it.

Why would Sylvia, further more, need to be gaining powers of a tree when what Mikono has displayed could, again, very easily be a symbolic throwback to Sylvia's own important role at the end of the OS?
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Old 2012-04-14, 16:49   Link #403
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Of which there has been utterly no indication plot-wise. Thus far, nothing has connected Amata and Kagura aside from Mikono.
I'm not so sure about that. It's quite possible that Kagura is the only person for whom Amata has no smell.

But more than that, remember what Mykage said about Alicia's child: that he has golden eyes and golden hair. Amata doesn't have golden eyes, but Kagura does. It's a big hint that there could be a link between them. Personally, I think that and things the series creators have said about it being possible to split people up into different parts in reincarnation (soul, body, etc) point to the Amata and Kagura as the same person theory.

Of course, your theory seems to be that Amata really doesn't smell at all. And there's quite a fun theory that Amata is not a human with a real body but is actually a spirit body projection of some sort. There's a similar theory for Zen being a projection. It would be strange for both of them to make it through so long without anybody noticing, let alone Amata, that they literally don't smell of anything. On the other hand, this is Aquarion. It's not known for its incredible logical consistency.

Sirius being half of Celiane wasn't foreshadowed in any adequate way, but that's still what happened. We have to be prepared for the series to troll us all good.

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Originally Posted by Vena View Post
I've never heard of dogs who cannot recognize their own odor. Even if the end result is that the two are somehow splits, the reasoning as being presented thus far is a blind grasping of straws.
Kagura's a human, even if sometimes he's, uh, a glowing red wolf thing and can track people by scent. Speaking of scents, have you ever heard of a person (or dog) being able to recognise a person's scent after both of them have been reincarnated thousands of years later? Aquarion doesn't exactly operate on real world lines.

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Originally Posted by Vena View Post
If Amata is the incarnation of a (powerful) object and has no smell, which is a rather important detail, then the *other* powerful object, one would expect, would also have no smell if we're going by consistency basis of objects being reincarnated having no past odor which Kagura can detect.
I think it's a bit early to be laying out hard rules for that based on consistency, before we even know why Kagura can't smell Amata.

It's hard to reduce those things to simple "objects" anyway: both the Tree and the Wings are organic things, and quite different types of organic things at that. The Wings used to be a part of an angel, and the Tree is, well, a tree. A magic tree, but a tree nonetheless. If we were talking about two pairs of torn-off angel wings or two pairs of lifegiving trees, that would be different.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vena View Post
It is less important if Kagura is correct about Mikono (aside from the, as I said, large symbolic ties to the original story's conclusion) what is important is that he detected her specifically and has been locked to her since the first episode. Whatever they are, they are intimately connected. Tree/Wings or Sylvia/Apollo, however you want to twist and turn it.

Why would Sylvia, further more, need to be gaining powers of a tree when what Mikono has displayed could, again, very easily be a symbolic throwback to Sylvia's own important role at the end of the OS?
Kagura and Mikono might be some combo of the Wings/Tree? Interesting idea. I'd be disappointed if that turned out to be true, though, because of the way the show has pushed Kagura as appearing like Apollo. Whether he really is Apollo or he has been made to think he is, it's something that needs explaining. Him being the Wings would really surprise me.

Not sure what you mean in the latter paragraph there about Silvia needing to gain tree powers. But yes, it is entirely possible that the ep 14 scene with Mikono was a reference to Silvia and the connection powers she gained at the end of Genesis. There is even a theory on the previous page that Silvia's spirit entering the Tree of Life at that time was what gave her the connection power. Ever since the connection powers thing came out, it has been considered a big hint that Mikono could be Silvia.
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Old 2012-04-14, 17:13   Link #404
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Yeah, I'd expect the smells to be a fakeout of some kind (e.g. either *not* actually based upon past-life identity, or the "Kagura can't smell Amata because he smells the same) than I'd expect them to be consistent enough to use to guess important plot points ahead of time.

However, from the concept art in the other thread: Mykage's castle looks like it's build into a tree. In the show its hard to tell, but it's pretty easy to spot in the concept art. Does the tree of life look like a real tree?
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Old 2012-04-14, 17:40   Link #405
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yes, tree of life was a tree. a beautiful one. however toma and the angels had to kidnap human and feed prana to the tree. the people were held in pods on the tree of life, as it sucked their life-force but not completely killing them either.
for it to survive the wings of aquarion had to make it bloom. however stuff happened and it withered away instead which lead to earth and angel world to almost collapse.

then silvia entered the tree and became the connecting force for the 3 vectors.
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Old 2012-04-14, 18:01   Link #406
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Guys, I want to ask this again.

Spoiler for Kagura: I'm Apollon?:
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Old 2012-04-14, 19:03   Link #407
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Originally Posted by GoldenLand View Post
But more than that, remember what Mykage said about Alicia's child: that he has golden eyes and golden hair. Amata doesn't have golden eyes, but Kagura does. It's a big hint that there could be a link between them. Personally, I think that and things the series creators have said about it being possible to split people up into different parts in reincarnation (soul, body, etc) point to the Amata and Kagura as the same person theory.
Mayhaps but to get to him being half of Kagura, just because his eyes are said to be golden, seems like a jump of reasoning on the grounds that: because they are the opposing forces in the show, to me. How did Amata end up with *purple* eyes when losing the *gold* in them? Not to mention that this is largely overlooking the fact that Amata's eyes are the same color as his mother's... which seems pretty standard to me. (Heck, I wouldn't even call Amata's hair golden either. So clearly, we need to find a golden haired boy who is also the split off of Amata.)

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Originally Posted by GoldenLand View Post
Kagura's a human, even if sometimes he's, uh, a glowing red wolf thing and can track people by scent. Speaking of scents, have you ever heard of a person (or dog) being able to recognise a person's scent after both of them have been reincarnated thousands of years later? Aquarion doesn't exactly operate on real world lines.
On the scents thing, you do know that animals (dogs, bears, for instance) can effectively smell *when* you were? They can smell in the past. It's actually a neat attention to detail for this to be the method through which Apollo finds Sylvia.

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Originally Posted by GoldenLand View Post
It's hard to reduce those things to simple "objects" anyway: both the Tree and the Wings are organic things, and quite different types of organic things at that. The Wings used to be a part of an angel, and the Tree is, well, a tree. A magic tree, but a tree nonetheless. If we were talking about two pairs of torn-off angel wings or two pairs of lifegiving trees, that would be different.
How bout *magical mcguffins*.

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Originally Posted by GoldenLand View Post
Kagura and Mikono might be some combo of the Wings/Tree? Interesting idea. I'd be disappointed if that turned out to be true, though, because of the way the show has pushed Kagura as appearing like Apollo. Whether he really is Apollo or he has been made to think he is, it's something that needs explaining. Him being the Wings would really surprise me.

Not sure what you mean in the latter paragraph there about Silvia needing to gain tree powers. But yes, it is entirely possible that the ep 14 scene with Mikono was a reference to Silvia and the connection powers she gained at the end of Genesis. There is even a theory on the previous page that Silvia's spirit entering the Tree of Life at that time was what gave her the connection power. Ever since the connection powers thing came out, it has been considered a big hint that Mikono could be Silvia.
I don't mean (or didn't) that Sylvia needed to gain tree powers but that what Mikono has displayed are Sylvia's *powers* (I use the word loosely) and has no need to be associated (or grounds upon which to be) with the tree of life. In fact, Fudo's talk (and remembrance) with her makes little sense if he's talking to her knowing that she's the tree of life, of all things.

Basically, Occam's Razor: Kagura and Mikono have shown all the signs of being X and Y, they even have the connecting theme on which X left Y at the end of story Z. (Also considering how far we are in the story, I don't expect this to suddenly change as Kagura has basically gone through every single cast member short of Crea and Fudo, and some of the bridge bunnies I guess.)

The fishy detail, as mike pointed out, is that Mykage's throne is a tree and (further) that Altair's design is actually very tree like (go look at the concept art, it looks like a metal tree with the leaves being panels). In fact, you can easily fit this into story if you look at it this way. Altair and its design are the tree of life as set up by Mykage and, likely, the desperation of Altair's people to prevent their world's collapse. What does Izumo want? A powerful element to revitalize the planet (tree). What does Mykage want? Sousei no Aquarion which will brings it pollen to said tree. So, no reincarnations as tree but food for said tree.
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Old 2012-04-14, 19:18   Link #408
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Since the discussion turned toward Mikono and the tree of life I'll post again my previous theory
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Originally Posted by Arya View Post
Spoiler for Mikono - tree of life:
Anyways one point seems clear, Mikono so far looks like to be the key of whatever. Being her Silvia/Sylvie or being her the tree of life/eve. That seems to follow pretty well Mykage words back in episode #? that Vena resumed
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Originally Posted by Vena View Post
Remember also that Mykage spoke of two flowers to bloom for a garden. Izumo's eve is likely Zess, Mykage's is Mikono.
reversing what he said, am I wrong? because he said something like if everyone focuses on one flower there's no need for a garden to bloom. That could mean anything, but surely it fits the plot focus so far.
And all in all so far it is only Mikage, through Kagura, that has been implying Mikono past legacy. Ceyenne's vision alone doesn't imply any relations of her with reincarnations. It could imply even a Wings/tree theory and its consequences (didn't the tree die?).
And another skill of dogs, other than its nose, is that is very good at being trained. (half joke, half not)

ETA: just read Vena last post and took note of the Altair tree-like conformation that seems to be relevant. mmm
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Old 2012-04-15, 02:28   Link #409
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Guys, I want to ask this again.

Spoiler for Kagura: I'm Apollon?:
Spoiler for kagura:
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Old 2012-04-15, 15:37   Link #410
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Spoiler for episode 16:
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Old 2012-04-15, 15:40   Link #411
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Vena: do you mean Altair's design as a planet or like the various Altair logos/crests/whatever? To my eyes a lot of Altair's symbols work as either "tree of life" imagery (their "crest") or as "wings" imagery (their crosses and "crest" both work for this). Everything is very suspicious, and episode 16 sure didn't help clear much up.
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Old 2012-04-15, 16:20   Link #412
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Originally Posted by miketyson View Post
Vena: do you mean Altair's design as a planet or like the various Altair logos/crests/whatever? To my eyes a lot of Altair's symbols work as either "tree of life" imagery (their "crest") or as "wings" imagery (their crosses and "crest" both work for this). Everything is very suspicious, and episode 16 sure didn't help clear much up.
The design of the cityscape that is Altair, not so much its crests. Upper part is like a canopy, and if you look below there is, what can easily pass as, a tree trunk that connects the upper and lower layers. Factor in what Izumo's been talking about and now his lines this episode... and you have to wonder what it is that Altair did to get in this mess because it looks like they did it to themselves.

--------

Going by this episode, it took us 16 episodes for *love* to actually enter the cockpit of Aquarion. So... for the last whatever amount of time that Amata and Mikono have been in there, they've been... teasing each others interests? This writing is either going to turn out brilliantly where Amata and Mikono's infatuation with each other turns out to be a total trollolol, or its just painfully bad. Given that Okada doesn't seem to like Mikono, I wouldn't be to surprised to see the former.

Some reincarnations shenanigans... and of course they make it a point to have Mikono focus on familiarity with what she sees while Amata and Zessica have no clue who anyone is (aside from Fudo for being obviously Fudo). Blah blah blah, somehow it will turn out that Zessica is Sylvia, Amata is batman, and Kagura was actually a tentacruel in disguise. Mikono is secretly a parasect.

That said, seems pretty obvious where we go from here:
Spoiler for Next Ep:
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Old 2012-04-15, 16:24   Link #413
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Spoiler for episode 16:
This episode hasn't confirmed anything, just made ​​everything more confusing.

Spoiler for Episode 16/I'll put here what I posted in another forum:
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Old 2012-04-15, 16:35   Link #414
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Originally Posted by Vena View Post

Going by this episode, it took us 16 episodes for *love* to actually enter the cockpit of Aquarion. So... for the last whatever amount of time that Amata and Mikono have been in there, they've been... teasing each others interests? This writing is either going to turn out brilliantly where Amata and Mikono's infatuation with each other turns out to be a total trollolol, or its just painfully bad. Given that Okada doesn't seem to like Mikono, I wouldn't be to surprised to see the former.


That said, seems pretty obvious where we go from here:
Spoiler for Next Ep:
Bait and switch is the way to go.

Or Okada cannot write romance at all.

Or AmataxMikono will overcome some drastic changes to make is a bit interesting, heart-warming.(I doubt it)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mixordia View Post
This episode hasn't confirmed anything, just made ​​everything more confusing.

Spoiler for Episode 16/I'll put here what I posted in another forum:
I was just throwing some speculations here. I'm not sure of anything anymore. XD
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Old 2012-04-15, 16:50   Link #415
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Vena: ah, I see what you mean. I'm not sure I actually see it though -- Altair's canopy seems to be planet-wide -- but at least locally it does have a tree-ish look to it.

That is an interesting point about Amata-Mikono up until now, although apparently
Spoiler for episode 16:
.

Conjecture: Izumo will defect to Vega, possibly with Alisia in tow.

Speculation: I'm starting to think that "Skies of Aquaria"'s historical inaccuracies are going to have more in-story significance than just "well, that happened a long time ago so the details got blurry". It might just be narrative convenience, but it seems a bit fishy how little trace of Apollo and Sylvia the movie seems to have. Did Zen lay a trap for the unwise? Does this relate to the "Forbidden Loves" we've seen?

Guesswork:
Spoiler for reincarnations:
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Old 2012-04-15, 16:57   Link #416
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Vena: ah, I see what you mean. I'm not sure I actually see it though -- Altair's canopy seems to be planet-wide -- but at least locally it does have a tree-ish look to it.
We've never really seen anything but that one city of Altair... but we'll see. It was just a feeling I got from the whole design.

Quote:
Originally Posted by miketyson View Post
That is an interesting point about Amata-Mikono up until now, although apparently
Spoiler for episode 16:
I'll be honest if that were the case it would be beyond stupid, I couldn't even begin to wrap my head around how that can even be explained. Not only that, but it really would mean that we've been beating around a burning bush with a mind-numbing reason: "They're in love but so long as Aquarion doesn't hear SUKI! nothing happens!" Clearly, also, when Donar and GF were in Aquarion one of them just had to shout "SUKI!" and piss of Aquarion and Mykage.

As for the trap, I honestly have no clue what's going on there. How did Kagura keep the detail of smell from Apollo (even if he mucked up the names) when that detail didn't exist in the movie? How does Mikono keep the detail of said smell, when that too did not exist in the movies?
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Old 2012-04-15, 17:00   Link #417
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It'd be great if Andy lampshaded that while talking to Amata. "Hey Amata, has it ever occurred to you that you've been doing a lot of piloting with Mikono, but the two of you have never
Spoiler for ep16:
? Maybe you should think on that, buddy."

But who am I kidding?
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Old 2012-04-15, 17:06   Link #418
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On a different note, momentarily, Apollo and Sylvia, in OS< being love-love caused vision. By this reasoning, clearly, Zessica is a cross-incarnation of both!

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Originally Posted by miketyson View Post
But who am I kidding?
On the other side of the coin, if the two are truly only infatuated with each other for some *insert reasons here* and that the feelings do stop there, we might get an explanation for how Mikono can have her heart sway for two different guys.

2/4ch sure are getting pretty absurd.
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Old 2012-04-15, 17:39   Link #419
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On a different note, momentarily, Apollo and Sylvia, in OS< being love-love caused vision. By this reasoning, clearly, Zessica is a cross-incarnation of both!
Like once they started falling in love with each other they'd get bleed-through visions of scenes from their past lives? Is that the right ballpark?

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Originally Posted by Vena View Post
On the other side of the coin, if the two are truly only infatuated with each other for some *insert reasons here* and that the feelings do stop there, we might get an explanation for how Mikono can have her heart sway for two different guys.
When I feel like giving this credit for being better-written than it probably is, I think it's pretty clear *why* their love isn't quite real love yet: Amata's not (yet) into Mikono-qua-Mikono; his feelings aren't insincere, but they're not about her-as-herself, more about his (and her) circumstances...and Mikono knows this to be the case.

It dovetails nicely with Mikono's own issues -- as, after all, more than anything else she seems to be searching for some validation of her own self worth -- and both Zessica and Kagura slot into that dynamic in interesting ways:

Spoiler for ep 16 references:


Quote:
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2/4ch sure are getting pretty absurd.
I can only imagine, .

Last edited by miketyson; 2012-04-15 at 17:40. Reason: Closed quote
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Old 2012-04-15, 17:47   Link #420
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you know it could have been shu shu who triggered the vision. i know its troll but it clearly says "suki" and then vision and interdimensional mugen punch comes on screen.

it could also mean apollo-silvia had "pure feelings" like zessica's are described in those spoilers. while mikono-amata was first crush. no matter how annoying apollo-silvia were they never really got to experience any thing like how apollonius-celiane did. apollonius-s celiane even had a family while they continued fighting the angels.

so maybe they want to kill the fan base of silvia-apollo claiming they just had pure feelings for each other but not reall a deep love story like apollonius-celiane. bah. so amata can oversome destiny and win mikono while zessica rules altair by herself.
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