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View Poll Results: Critique of Episode 27
10: Amazing... 5 11.63%
9 out of 10: Excellent... 8 18.60%
8 out of 10: Very Good... 11 25.58%
7 out of 10: Good... 12 27.91%
6 out of 10: Average... 6 13.95%
5 out of 10: Below Average... 0 0%
4 out of 10: Poor... 0 0%
3 out of 10: Bad... 0 0%
2 out of 10: Very Bad... 1 2.33%
1 out of 10: Torturous... 0 0%
Voters: 43. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2012-04-16, 19:33   Link #101
Revolutionist
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Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
Not faster. Surer. His point was, without him, Asemu could get lost, and even if he didn't, would lack the firepower to destroy the fortress.


Zeheart has a personal fondness for Asemu, and they shared a common goal of protecting Earth. It doesn't extend to outright betrayal of the Vagan cause, and why should it?

Well, I say that, but Zeheart saved Asemu when he really shouldn't have...


He might have used the extra carrying capacity, but I don't think he really needed it. It was more of a trust issue. He could have told Asemu "evacuate the fortress and leave it to me, I'll destroy it even if I die.", but would Asemu have listened to that?


Zeheart is the one who's being manipulated.
Completely agree with you.

If Zeheart wanted to simply use Asemu to ensure Ezelcant's backup plan worked, he would not have saved him once Downes blew up.

I think the their goals just happened to be the same, and there's no point in looking too much into that.
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Old 2012-04-16, 19:56   Link #102
JediNight
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The distinction is that while the Vagans hate the Earth Fed, they revere Earth and don't want to see it get damaged. So even though they're at war, they also don't want to see it harmed by something like a giant fortress causing a nuclear impact site, etc.

Unlike the Blue Earth group or w/e from Seed Destiny that were crazy and would use any means to see through their goals.
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Old 2012-04-16, 22:26   Link #103
KaiDamien
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I must say i'm pretty impressed with Flit and his strategy , i think its the first time i'm impressed with 2nd gen Flit.

For a long time now, i have refrained from talking about the plot cause we don't have the full picture of Ezelcant's plan. Even though i don't know the full extent of this 'back-up' plan of his , i figured i must still let some steam out. It seems to be implied that sending troops down to earth isn't some 'back-up plan', and it seems really ridiculous to have the it exist. It's as if it was some lousy excuse for them failing the operation, and if it really was Ezelcant's intention from the start it seems really ridiculous to sacrifice so many troops for the sake of sending a couple of people/MS down to earth .

I don't believe that by now Ezelcant wouldn't already have moles/MS down on earth, in fact i believe if he wanted he could have done so a long time ago. I wonder what's this great plan of his that is taking so freaking long, after so many years have past(during the time skips) i can't believe that nothing significant has been achieved. While i understand that the director wants to protray the 3 generations story line, i would be very disappointed if the reason nothing much happened during the time skip was just a plot device to keep the 3 gen story line going.

And wow, after so long the colony destroyer finally makes it appearance again. I wonder where the hell they were when they were needed. 'Plot' hole ? Still, looking at this episode as a stand alone episode, i voted 10. Though to think about it , i was supposed to vote a 9. But whatever.
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Old 2012-04-16, 22:38   Link #104
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No, the original plan was to have Downes link up with Nortrum, and use it as a forward operating base. That would have been the ideal outcome for Ezelcant. He says that the plan cannot possibly fail because even if they fail to capture the colony, and Downes is destroyed, they can still use that to their advantage like they did here. He essentially crafted a win-win scenario, that at best would net them a nice colony to support their war effort. At worst they'd be able to invade Earth undetected, and we all know how important the element of surprise is!
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Old 2012-04-17, 00:24   Link #105
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Hell, as far as leaders go, Ezelcant seems pretty reasonable towards his own men on the whole. Other antagonist leaders in Gundam series would've had their men punished or executed for a failure as big as the Big Ring operation, but he didn't... and then there's this, so yeah. He has something of a heart towards his own people, at least.
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Old 2012-04-17, 00:47   Link #106
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Hell, as far as leaders go, Ezelcant seems pretty reasonable towards his own men on the whole. Other antagonist leaders in Gundam series would've had their men punished or executed for a failure as big as the Big Ring operation, but he didn't... and then there's this, so yeah. He has something of a heart towards his own people, at least.
When your leader has a plan inside a plan that's also inside a plan, it's kinda hard to fail.

Ezelcant took the Big Ring Operation Plan B a success as it was a good way to measure the Federation's strength.

The destruction of the fortress Plan B allowed the Vagans to infiltrate Earth.
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Old 2012-04-17, 09:53   Link #107
KaiDamien
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No, the original plan was to have Downes link up with Nortrum, and use it as a forward operating base. That would have been the ideal outcome for Ezelcant. He says that the plan cannot possibly fail because even if they fail to capture the colony, and Downes is destroyed, they can still use that to their advantage like they did here. He essentially crafted a win-win scenario, that at best would net them a nice colony to support their war effort. At worst they'd be able to invade Earth undetected, and we all know how important the element of surprise is!
The thing i can't understand is why drag so long, Ezelcant's plan isn't plain destruction but i can't think of something that is taking so long. I guess we'll know in a few months time, but i'm just blowing off some steam that's been kept for too long .
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Old 2012-04-17, 13:37   Link #108
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The thing i can't understand is why drag so long, Ezelcant's plan isn't plain destruction but i can't think of something that is taking so long. I guess we'll know in a few months time, but i'm just blowing off some steam that's been kept for too long .
Well that's exactly why his plan is taking so long, because taking over by force is easy, but then you risk making your objective useless to you. If Vagan drop a colony on the capital of the EF ala Zeon, they'd probably win, but then the Earth would be useless to them.
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Old 2012-04-17, 13:59   Link #109
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that's a classic Gundam death flag. Marriage proposal = people are gonna die and get really messed up. Remi and Obright could have taken it slowly.... she would still be alive.

How about the next episode? Segue into third protagonists story or the second half of Asemu arc?

Zeheart is now on Earth. Romary is going to run away with him.

Arisa is going to be Kio's mom. . .

Asemu is now taking up Woolf's mantle as the Supa Pilot.

Flit: Grandpa in classic looking Gundam
Asemu: Dad without x-rounder powers but will grow sideburns and ride around in white de-AGEd Gundam Bouncer.
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Old 2012-04-17, 16:23   Link #110
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My problem with plan B is that it didn't require all this effort. If the goal was to get people onto the Earth how hard would it be really to sneak people onto ships heading to Earth? We've already seen how sad the security is on the colonies, shouldn't be that hard to get Vagans onto the Earth without needing a full scale battle. I'd say Ezelcant's plan failed and with sneaking the pods onto Earth they only managed to avoid it being a complete disaster. But with a mysterious leader like Ezelcant anything that happens no matter how random can be considered part of the plan.

I only feel sorry for Remi. Obright was the one waving around death flags like an idiot. Every time we saw him he was trying to wave that flag a little bit more. In the end Remi paid the price for flagrant effort to upset the Gundam gods.

At least the episode went well for Asemu. Looked more competent to his father and everyone with how he helped save the day there. Also helped repair the rift between him and Romary a little and get her to show more concern for him than I've seen in a while. To top it off was able to work with Zeheart a bit. An Asemu that isn't depressed or raging is easier to get along with. While still on opposite sides this chance to work together was key for their severely damaged friendship.

I hadn't thought about it, but yeah the Vagans really can't have ships dropping onto the Earth or anything. Can't use it as their Eden if it's destroyed.

Thought it was a bit too early for Asemu's arc to end. Now things heading to Earth and Asemu taking on the Woolf mantle. He may never have gotten to pilot a white Gundam, but at least Asemu can be a kind of successor to him and take that on.
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Old 2012-04-17, 16:36   Link #111
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My problem with plan B is that it didn't require all this effort. If the goal was to get people onto the Earth how hard would it be really to sneak people onto ships heading to Earth? We've already seen how sad the security is on the colonies, shouldn't be that hard to get Vagans onto the Earth without needing a full scale battle. I'd say Ezelcant's plan failed and with sneaking the pods onto Earth they only managed to avoid it being a complete disaster. But with a mysterious leader like Ezelcant anything that happens no matter how random can be considered part of the plan.
I don't know - from the dialogue, it seems very rare for colonists to even see Earth. That got me thinking - what if there was actually very little traffic between space and the motherland?

What bothers me is that I don't see how a few thousands people are going to be able to do. Even as sleeper cells, it'd take some help on the ground to slip them into good covers. And if they were able to get people on the ground before, then yeah - what would they need that big, costly battle for?



Quote:
I hadn't thought about it, but yeah the Vagans really can't have ships dropping onto the Earth or anything. Can't use it as their Eden if it's destroyed.
They could. They'd just have to be patient. (Frankly, I think that'd be my plan. Take control of the orbitals, and bomb Earth into the stone age. Or at least threaten to.)
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Old 2012-04-17, 16:42   Link #112
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My guess is that with only relatively few Vagans making it to Earth, they'll need some time to regroup, coordinate with each other, then sneak/smuggle in more Vagans to get up viable production to create mobile suits before they can begin fighting again.
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Old 2012-04-17, 17:08   Link #113
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Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
I don't know - from the dialogue, it seems very rare for colonists to even see Earth. That got me thinking - what if there was actually very little traffic between space and the motherland?

What bothers me is that I don't see how a few thousands people are going to be able to do. Even as sleeper cells, it'd take some help on the ground to slip them into good covers. And if they were able to get people on the ground before, then yeah - what would they need that big, costly battle for?
I'd be able to accept the plan better if this was the case. If there is very little traffic then it'd take way too long to get people there via smuggling. Probably pretty expensive to take trips from colonies to the Earth anyways just from a resources point of view. Might be the only ones who go from the colonies to the Earth are the military and the super rich. Also possible the Earth has strict immigration policies to they don't have to deal with a problem of overpopulation.

Does seem like they will have way too few people to really fight a war. Of course works out fine for generation 3 since it gives some reason for why we can have another gap. It's definitely not much of a plan B since with so few people they can only do so much. Maybe they can try and conquer a few small countries and dig in.

Quote:
They could. They'd just have to be patient. (Frankly, I think that'd be my plan. Take control of the orbitals, and bomb Earth into the stone age. Or at least threaten to.)
I'm just not sure how people that desperate to reach their 'Eden' are going to be. Might be fine for those who can cold sleep until everything is good, but the rest might not want to have to wait and never see it happen.
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Old 2012-04-17, 17:29   Link #114
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I'd be able to accept the plan better if this was the case. If there is very little traffic then it'd take way too long to get people there via smuggling. Probably pretty expensive to take trips from colonies to the Earth anyways just from a resources point of view. Might be the only ones who go from the colonies to the Earth are the military and the super rich. Also possible the Earth has strict immigration policies to they don't have to deal with a problem of overpopulation.
Yeah, but then we're back to the problem of getting them papers so they can hide in plain sight. Made even more difficult by the fact they couldn't use the "oh, I'm just a harmless refugee from the colonies, and aren't those Vagans who chased us away from there terrible people?" story.

Quote:
Does seem like they will have way too few people to really fight a war. Of course works out fine for generation 3 since it gives some reason for why we can have another gap. It's definitely not much of a plan B since with so few people they can only do so much. Maybe they can try and conquer a few small countries and dig in.
Conquer with what? It's not just people - they've got to be lacking supplies. And if they show themselves - defeating the purpose of landing secretly - how are they going to resist the might of the whole planet?
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Old 2012-04-18, 04:34   Link #115
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I'd be able to accept the plan better if this was the case. If there is very little traffic then it'd take way too long to get people there via smuggling. Probably pretty expensive to take trips from colonies to the Earth anyways just from a resources point of view. Might be the only ones who go from the colonies to the Earth are the military and the super rich. Also possible the Earth has strict immigration policies to they don't have to deal with a problem of overpopulation.
But that could be the case, seeing how often they comment about they have never visited Earth before, it really makes you think there is something wrong with the Earth currently.
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Old 2012-04-18, 07:28   Link #116
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But that could be the case, seeing how often they comment about they have never visited Earth before, it really makes you think there is something wrong with the Earth currently.
Calling it again, Earth = Barren wasteland.

No but, the lack of earth in Gen 1/2 annoyed me slightly, it feel good that we're finally going to see the good old lady animated.

This episode felt too rushed for my taste, the previous one was a solid 9/10 for me, giving this one a 6/10.
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Old 2012-04-18, 11:30   Link #117
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In slightly less random fashion, I rewatched the scene and noticed that it wasn't so much that Remi got instantly gibbed by Mink, but that her warning system went off and she went up to shield the bridge from Mink's attack.

I realized the really effed up part of this though -- while they were all really shaken up at Woolf's death -- they don't even acknowledge the sacrifice Remi made for them by shielding the bridge. Even with Obright going out there, not even an offhand comment was made about her and they go about their business as usual.

Kinda cold...

PS: What is it with Gundam and cracking helmet glass? Why are they even still made out of glass? You think by now they would use enamelized plastic ala ballistic types to avoid that.
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Old 2012-04-18, 12:08   Link #118
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In slightly less random fashion, I rewatched the scene and noticed that it wasn't so much that Remi got instantly gibbed by Mink, but that her warning system went off and she went up to shield the bridge from Mink's attack.

I realized the really effed up part of this though -- while they were all really shaken up at Woolf's death -- they don't even acknowledge the sacrifice Remi made for them by shielding the bridge. Even with Obright going out there, not even an offhand comment was made about her and they go about their business as usual.

Kinda cold...

PS: What is it with Gundam and cracking helmet glass? Why are they even still made out of glass? You think by now they would use enamelized plastic ala ballistic types to avoid that.
Agreed. TBH, the deaths in this series doesn't affect me one bit. Not a single teary-eyed moment. Somehow, there's not enough build-up for me to feel attached.
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Old 2012-04-18, 12:09   Link #119
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I guess none of them had exchanged more than a few words with her.
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Old 2012-04-18, 12:45   Link #120
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I Saw a Red Sunset - 地球、それはエデン ~ Akai Yuuhi wo Mita
The red doesn't match the blue. :\
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