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Old 2012-04-15, 09:28   Link #61
itachi-san314
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Originally Posted by Langus View Post
I never said anything about the Vanden?

I get the impression that the Vanden and the Quincy are opposite entities. One comes from the other, but that doesn't mean their motives are the same. Kind of like the Vizards and the Shinigami.
so you've been saying ishida was a quincy then? isn't that more than obvious? I thought the point of this conversation has been ishida ever having ties to the vanden. the normal quincy were obviously uninformed and pushovers to an extent since SS wiped them out. they didn't have much of a spying program and they were wiped out before ishida even met ichigo so he wouldn't even have been physically able to spy for them on ichigo and SS. the vanden is the group that has been around all this time and knows a lot of secrets
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Old 2012-04-15, 10:12   Link #62
Langus
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You're forgetting that Ishida's father is a Quincy. We know he has past associations with Ichigo's father and Urahara (though the specifics are still up in the air). I didn't get the impression they were BFFs either. It would have been very easy for Ishida's father to convince him at the start of the manga to keep an eye on Ichigo. He was in his class after all. It wouldn't have been a difficult thing for him to do. Now whether Daddy Ishida has any connection with the Vanden has yet to be seen or even suggested. But not only that, where are you getting this "the vanden has been around since the beginning and know many secrets" bit? I don't remember that plothax coming up in the manga. (Though knowing Kubo it would not surprise me one bit)
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Old 2012-04-15, 11:34   Link #63
haegar
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true. I for my part thought it pretty obvious that the Vanden only ever were founded after the extermination of the Quincy. There is no proof for this either but as Langus already pointed out the Vanden always having been around as a group is even further a stretch at this point.

The more interesting question is did SS overlook them as they went to ground, or did they spare them thinking they were no threat? I think th Quincy that became the Vanden hid themselves somewhere out of reach of SS - but I think the Uryu familly Wuincy were spared except for Mayuri killing the granddad. And that being spared prly has to do with Ishin and his relationship to Ishida's dad, or the laters decision to not use his powers or both...
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Old 2012-04-15, 13:09   Link #64
itachi-san314
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Originally Posted by Langus View Post
You're forgetting that Ishida's father is a Quincy. We know he has past associations with Ichigo's father and Urahara (though the specifics are still up in the air). I didn't get the impression they were BFFs either. It would have been very easy for Ishida's father to convince him at the start of the manga to keep an eye on Ichigo. He was in his class after all. It wouldn't have been a difficult thing for him to do. Now whether Daddy Ishida has any connection with the Vanden has yet to be seen or even suggested. But not only that, where are you getting this "the vanden has been around since the beginning and know many secrets" bit? I don't remember that plothax coming up in the manga. (Though knowing Kubo it would not surprise me one bit)
well i haven't forgotten ishida's father is a quincy.. lol. there's a difference in saying the quincy asked ishida to spy and ishida's father asked him to spy. one is a person, the other is a group that was annihilated prior to the bleach story. so either his father asked or the vanden did or nobody did. my point was that the vanden would have killed him if they did and he didn't comply. if his father did then obviously he wouldn't kill him

i'm assuming the vanden has been around since prior to the bleach story because the quincy were wiped out prior to the story and the vanden are quincy, so what else would have been happening between the quincy extermination and the rise of the vanden? basically the vanden forming and them gathering members, power and information. I could be wrong and they could have just formed a month ago, but that doesn't make sense to me. I'd assume they went underground before the rest of the quincy were killed and started enacting the plan that we are seeing now
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Old 2012-04-15, 17:55   Link #65
Chiisai Kuma
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"the Vanden" as you call them sounds like "the Varden" from eragon. *high pitched squeel of delight* this thread is getting better and better! : D
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Old 2012-04-15, 18:30   Link #66
Sabaku Kyu
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Originally Posted by haegar View Post
The more interesting question is did SS overlook them as they went to ground, or did they spare them thinking they were no threat? I think th Quincy that became the Vanden hid themselves somewhere out of reach of SS - but I think the Uryu familly Wuincy were spared except for Mayuri killing the granddad. And that being spared prly has to do with Ishin and his relationship to Ishida's dad, or the laters decision to not use his powers or both...
The remaining Quincy had already reached a truce with SS long before Ryuuken's generation. But their numbers continued to dwindle probably because Soul Society refused to support the few Quincy who continued to fight hollows to protect humans.
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Old 2012-04-16, 08:24   Link #67
ronin myael
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Originally Posted by itachi-san314 View Post
same should have applied to chad in the fullbring arc though... i remember him doing... something... oh yea he had a horrible explanation for his power and then got mind raped by a bad guy that a captain beat. i'm not going to hold my breath for any of ichigo's friends getting the stories they deserve after all this time
come to think of it, i'm not expecting much either. i just felt that ishida seems to be the cooler one compared to sado or inoue. it's a shame kubo neglected him. but then again, kubo has been neglecting and wasting characters for years. still, i wouldn't mind seeing ishida get more panel time, even if it's just for a while.
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Old 2012-04-16, 09:53   Link #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ronin myael View Post
come to think of it, i'm not expecting much either. i just felt that ishida seems to be the cooler one compared to sado or inoue. it's a shame kubo neglected him. but then again, kubo has been neglecting and wasting characters for years. still, i wouldn't mind seeing ishida get more panel time, even if it's just for a while.
This is the big issue with all of Ichigo's friends, all of them stopped being relevant after the SS arc and have just hung around Ichigo ever since, serving as nothing more than weaklings to be protected, giving him a reason to fight the bad guys.

The last time I cared about Ishida was in his fight against Mayuri, where he was pretty bad ass. Too bad he had to use a move much like the final gestuga to win, thus giving up his powers, but at least he won that battle, that's something.

Chad is even worse, especially considering he was hyped to be such a super-badass at the start of Bleach. I had my hopes up about him as a character when he owned that ex-espada dude in Hueco Mundo, but that was quickly changed when Espada nr.5 suddenly appeared and one-shotted him right after his moment of glory, just to remind us all that Chad and his battle was worthless.

Inoue is eye-candy, and that’s all she’s ever been since the beginning of Bleach. Unlike Chad and Ishida however, she’s actually good at what she does, which is looking good, so I actually like her the best.
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Old 2012-04-16, 15:29   Link #69
haegar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu View Post
The remaining Quincy had already reached a truce with SS long before Ryuuken's generation. But their numbers continued to dwindle probably because Soul Society refused to support the few Quincy who continued to fight hollows to protect humans.

rite, that actually was mentioned at some point, thx for bringing that up.
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Old 2012-04-16, 16:18   Link #70
sayde
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Originally Posted by Mangs View Post
Inoue is eye-candy, and that’s all she’s ever been since the beginning of Bleach. Unlike Chad and Ishida however, she’s actually good at what she does, which is looking good, so I actually like her the best.
I find Orihime to be the biggest waste of potential of all Ichigo's immediate friends. In fact, so much so that it's a travesty. I mean at a time when the Gotei 13 was preparing for an important war, Orihime's abilities proved so extraordinary that Soul Society's rulers were forced into considering her to be a threat worthy of changing their plans around at the last minute. In fact, not only did it force the powers that be to deviate from their plans, but it forced them to devote a considerable amount of their military might (several captains) to the cause. Its as if they considered her potential threat level to be second only to Aizen himself.

So it pains me to have to admit that Kubo doesn't seem to have any interest in taking her abilities and her importance to the plot much further. Because she could be capable of so much more than being limited to mere eye-candy.
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Old 2012-04-16, 16:22   Link #71
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Females always get sidelined in these types of series. I will always wonder how much stuff is the author's story and how much is the editor's.
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Old 2012-04-16, 19:32   Link #72
Sabaku Kyu
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Originally Posted by sayde View Post
I find Orihime to be the biggest waste of potential of all Ichigo's immediate friends. In fact, so much so that it's a travesty. I mean at a time when the Gotei 13 was preparing for an important war, Orihime's abilities proved so extraordinary that Soul Society's rulers were forced into considering her to be a threat worthy of changing their plans around at the last minute. In fact, not only did it force the powers that be to deviate from their plans, but it forced them to devote a considerable amount of their military might (several captains) to the cause. Its as if they considered her potential threat level to be second only to Aizen himself.

So it pains me to have to admit that Kubo doesn't seem to have any interest in taking her abilities and her importance to the plot much further. Because she could be capable of so much more than being limited to mere eye-candy.
Second that. Orhime's powers were hyped early on in the arrancar arc. I'd go so far to say there were hints dropped that she could be one of the most powerful, if not the most powerful character, in terms of potential use of her abilities. There's Aizen describing her powers as godlike, Luppi's jaw dropping to the floor when he saw her restore GJ's arm from nothing, Hacchi's amazement at her powers... even Ichigo takes note that her Shun Shun Rikka is much stronger. And it was not-so-subtly implied she's the only being capable of destroying the Hyougoku.

After she got rescued from Las Noches, she went back to being glorified nurse/cheerleader. I suspect she was meant to play a much bigger part, but current demand was for the captains and vizards. I think there's a tiny chance Kubo might have her live up to her vow to destroy the hyougoku if Aizen is brought back--but not holding my breath.
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Old 2012-04-16, 19:36   Link #73
sayde
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Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu View Post
I suspect she was meant to play a much bigger part, but current demand was for the captains and vizards.
That wouldn't surprise me at all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu View Post
I think there's a tiny chance Kubo might have her live up to her vow to destroy the hyougoku if Aizen is brought back--but not holding my breath.
I honestly can't imagine a more plausible way for Aizen's hougyoku AND his zanpakuto's complete hypnosis to be legitimately defeated. Because in theory, her abilities should allow her to accomplish both of those feats. So I truly hope you're correct.

*edit*
It kind of begs the question as to why central 46 didn't summon Orihime to try and destroy the hougyoku (for the sake of removing Aizen's immortality) after his defeat. Granted, I know those guys would prefer not to request aid from non-shinigami residing in the world of the living. But one would think that a chance to destroy him for good might be worth making a special exception.
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Old 2012-04-16, 21:26   Link #74
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She could have restored Captain Yamamoto's arm too. It seems her powers are only used when the plot deems it convenient though.
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Old 2012-04-17, 04:00   Link #75
ronin myael
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Originally Posted by Mangs View Post
This is the big issue with all of Ichigo's friends, all of them stopped being relevant after the SS arc and have just hung around Ichigo ever since, serving as nothing more than weaklings to be protected, giving him a reason to fight the bad guys.

The last time I cared about Ishida was in his fight against Mayuri, where he was pretty bad ass. Too bad he had to use a move much like the final gestuga to win, thus giving up his powers, but at least he won that battle, that's something.

Chad is even worse, especially considering he was hyped to be such a super-badass at the start of Bleach. I had my hopes up about him as a character when he owned that ex-espada dude in Hueco Mundo, but that was quickly changed when Espada nr.5 suddenly appeared and one-shotted him right after his moment of glory, just to remind us all that Chad and his battle was worthless.

Inoue is eye-candy, and that’s all she’s ever been since the beginning of Bleach. Unlike Chad and Ishida however, she’s actually good at what she does, which is looking good, so I actually like her the best.
yeah, i was disappointed when ishida and ichigo had to lose their powers only to gain them back. what's up with that?

i actually thought that chad would grow a full body armor later on. it would have been cool to see him with a badass armor made from his own spiritual energy. too bad kubo stopped developing the character.

i agree with sayde and sabaku kyu though, inoue could have been so much more if only kubo bothered to make her into more than just some obsessed ichigo fangirl.
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Old 2012-04-17, 18:29   Link #76
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Even though spoilers haven't been released yet, please remember to direct discussion regarding the upcoming chapter here.
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Old 2012-04-18, 16:44   Link #77
Mists
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Great chapter, better than Naruto lol!

Will be interesting to see if they distracted Ichi because he's an anomaly and they can't take away his bankai
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Old 2012-04-18, 19:49   Link #78
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GREAT!! More of 18 pages explaining something 3 pages could of tops!
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Old 2012-04-19, 19:17   Link #79
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Posted in 289
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