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Old 2012-04-20, 03:27   Link #61
Mateus
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I liked seeing young Orochimaru again, it at least shows us exactly how he and Danzo had an acquaintance and the reasoning for the whole Sasuke/Sai thing.
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Old 2012-04-20, 08:53   Link #62
Night_Music
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another flashback chapter. Come to think of it, Naruto and Gaara had far worse childhood than Kabuto, but Naruto and Gaara both had people to guide them to the path of light, whilst Kabuto had Orochimaru, and nothing good can come of that...

The recent events made me wonder and realize that Danzou had affected a lot of antagonists in the series, and even lead to their transformation as the villains, I mean, The Uchiha brothers (Itachi in particular), Kabuto, and Nagato (you know, his alliance with Hanzo to destroy the rising group of Yahiko), that could have even lead to the formation of The Akatsuki...
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Old 2012-04-20, 08:58   Link #63
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^ So basically the only important person Sasuke killed turns out to be one of the worst bad guys.

Is there even any point in redeeming him? It's not like there's much to redeem.
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Old 2012-04-20, 10:14   Link #64
Hunter
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Turned out? Danzou's character has stayed the course since his introduction, he's an ultra-nationalist slimebag who'd do anything to further Konoha's interests (interests which are unsurprinsingly always the same as his own) and whose plots always turn out to cause harm to the village.
He was introduced as a guy who takes orphans, brainwash them and force them kill each others as training nearly three hundreds chapters ago, there is really nothing new here.
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Old 2012-04-20, 10:33   Link #65
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After seeing how Danzou operated, I think his desire to be Hokage was very impractical. He had a lot more free reign to do what he felt like without being accountable to public opinion or even the wishes of the Daimyo as the conniving head of Root. If anything, the role of Hokage would have been a hindrance that painted a larger target on his back and restricted his ability to be a two-timing bastard to parties that already had official agreements with the village.
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Old 2012-04-20, 12:57   Link #66
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After seeing how Danzou operated, I think his desire to be Hokage was very impractical. He had a lot more free reign to do what he felt like without being accountable to public opinion or even the wishes of the Daimyo as the conniving head of Root. If anything, the role of Hokage would have been a hindrance that painted a larger target on his back and restricted his ability to be a two-timing bastard to parties that already had official agreements with the village.
he would have run things differently than sarutobi, minato or tsunade. he would have still done whatever he wanted and with more authority so he didn't have to hide in the shadows to complete his objectives. he probably would have tried to turn the whole village into a brainwashed and seal controlled organization like root. I could see a civil war between clans in konoha having had happened had danzo not died, like ulquiorra said.

he could have also just wanted the hokage robe and hat
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Old 2012-04-20, 13:11   Link #67
Ero-Senn1n
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Danzou was hokage for a few days, and in those few days he managed to make the other 4 villages enemies
He openly admitted that he wanted the whole ninja world under his command, so it's not difficult to imagine him as long term hokage. He would have used all the resources of Konoha to wage wars, most of Naruto's generation would have probably died at a very young age in wars against other villages. Taking out Sasuke, akatsuki and kabuto/orochi of the equation, we get a kage summit where Danzou fails, but since he is already hokage failure is not an option, he would lose his title by failing. So i guess he would do something extreme, for example announce war and then use Izanagi to kill everybody in the kage summit. With Izanagi he would be able to kill most of them, so that there are less witnesses of his betrayal and more importantly he can announce war. War is very important for dictators, it strengthens their position in their own country, so i guess after killing the kages he would announce war. Since he cannot have war against 4 villages he would probably think that sparing Gaara as an ally will help him, and Gaara would be smart enough to temporarily accept this role only to survive and be able to ally with Naruto and Kakashi to stop Danzou. That would be an interesting story-line, one that doesn't contain Sasuke
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Old 2012-04-20, 14:50   Link #68
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I wonder if at this time Orochimaru had started work on the Izanagi Arm. He didn't have the Sharingans, but he probably had the Senjuu blood in order to create the arm.
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Old 2012-04-20, 15:02   Link #69
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Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
I wonder if at this time Orochimaru had started work on the Izanagi Arm. He didn't have the Sharingans, but he probably had the Senjuu blood in order to create the arm.
I was under the impression that the arm itself was Shisui's arm, with Hashirama's cell face and the multiple Sharingan eyes implanted into it. Didn't Ao determine that Shisui's chakra was flowing in both Danzou's right eye and his right arm?

Last edited by Discerptor; 2012-04-21 at 14:41. Reason: whoa, huge typo. EYES, not arms.
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Old 2012-04-20, 15:24   Link #70
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I was under the impression that the arm itself was Shisui's arm, with Hashirama's cell face and the multiple Sharingan arms implanted into it. Didn't Ao determine that Shisui's chakra was flowing in both Danzou's right eye and his right arm?
I must have missed that (if it is true). Whatever the case, Yamato should have been invented by now, so Orochimaru has already begun experimentation on Senjuu DNA.
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Old 2012-04-20, 18:14   Link #71
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I think the Hashirama face on Danzo and Madara is probably not Hashirama's original face he had when alive but a cloned face, Tobi does have a clone of Hashirama which Yamato is stuck near.

Danzo seems to have his original arm in this Kabuto flashback but it has some bandages covering it so it may be damaged a bit which could be why Danzo traded it for Shusui's arm.
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Old 2012-04-20, 23:49   Link #72
james0246
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Just a thought. I know many have joked that seeing this flashback has something to do with Izanagi. But, joking aside, maybe they are right. And, what's more, maybe Izanagi is literally rewriting Kabuto's past as we watch. Specifically, maybe the possible timeline discrepancies mentioned earlier (in this thread) are now a result of Itachi rewriting Kabuto's past, fundamentally altering the character's personality (and consequentially, their fate).

I doubt this is the case, but it would be a fun twist to the entire concept of the flashback that Kishimoto so often uses (and will undoubtedly use again when the Tobi fight officially starts).
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Old 2012-04-21, 00:47   Link #73
octaviahawk
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Originally Posted by Night_Music View Post
The recent events made me wonder and realize that Danzou had affected a lot of antagonists in the series, and even lead to their transformation as the villains, I mean, The Uchiha brothers (Itachi in particular), Kabuto, and Nagato (you know, his alliance with Hanzo to destroy the rising group of Yahiko), that could have even lead to the formation of The Akatsuki...
The road to hell is paved with good intentions; although how good Danzo's intentions actually were is anyone's guess T-T It's amazing the Third Hokage didn't DO SOMETHING about Danzo's eeeeeeeeeeeevilness.

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Turned out? Danzou's character has stayed the course since his introduction, he's an ultra-nationalist slimebag...He was introduced as a guy who takes orphans, brainwash them and force them kill each others as training nearly three hundreds chapters ago, there is really nothing new here.
You know, now that you mention it...EH GADS, WHAT IS WRONG WITH DANZO??? Although to be fair, the two elders also seem to have had a large hand in the Uchiha massacre; I wonder what their role was in all of this (perhaps we'll learn in Itachi's required flashback before he dies AGAIN T-T)

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Just a thought. I know many have joked that seeing this flashback has something to do with Izanagi... it would be a fun twist to the entire concept of the flashback that Kishimoto so often uses (and will undoubtedly use again when the Tobi fight officially starts).
I LOVE that idea, a jutsu that messes up your pre-death flashback, trololol.
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Old 2012-04-22, 13:58   Link #74
Artimus_Prime
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Perhaps the flashback reveals how he learned edo tensei thus canceling it in real life...
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Old 2012-04-22, 14:13   Link #75
Hunter
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The road to hell is paved with good intentions; although how good Danzo's intentions actually were is anyone's guess T-T It's amazing the Third Hokage didn't DO SOMETHING about Danzo's eeeeeeeeeeeevilness.
It's one of the main problem of Danzou's character, when you look at what he's done it seems like he was the one who trully ruled Konoha in all but title for decades. Sandaime just looks like a weak and ineffective leader.
The character was obviously invented in part 2 but I think it would have been better for the story if Sandaime and Danzou were the same person.

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You know, now that you mention it...EH GADS, WHAT IS WRONG WITH DANZO???
The same thing that went wrong with all the vilains in the story : the ninja system twisted their flaws to the breaking point of their humanity until they turned into monsters.
Danzou's flashback before his death already showed everything wrong with him, his excessive pride and jealousy, his fear of death, etc. All this was still present in him decades later, just amplified and twisted beyond redemption.
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Old 2012-04-22, 20:16   Link #76
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It's one of the main problem of Danzou's character, when you look at what he's done it seems like he was the one who trully ruled Konoha in all but title for decades. Sandaime just looks like a weak and ineffective leader.
The character was obviously invented in part 2 but I think it would have been better for the story if Sandaime and Danzou were the same person.
When Kishimoto was focusing on Asuma, he revealed that he and his father had a falling out. It actually felt like Kishi was going to air some dirty laundry about Hiruzen. But he didn't go down that path and has always tried to portray him in a positive light. With Danzou as the bad guy. Which only makes Hiruzen look more like a weak leader who couldn't control Danzou.

To me it would be like Naruto being Hokage while Shikamaru is running a shadow government, and doing what he wanted right, under Naruto's nose. It would make Naruto look like a moron. More than usual.
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Old 2012-04-22, 21:58   Link #77
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When Kishimoto was focusing on Asuma, he revealed that he and his father had a falling out. It actually felt like Kishi was going to air some dirty laundry about Hiruzen. But he didn't go down that path and has always tried to portray him in a positive light. With Danzou as the bad guy. Which only makes Hiruzen look more like a weak leader who couldn't control Danzou.

To me it would be like Naruto being Hokage while Shikamaru is running a shadow government, and doing what he wanted right, under Naruto's nose. It would make Naruto look like a moron. More than usual.
I think the issue between Asuma and Hiruzen was over Asuma's joining the Twelve Guards.

I don't think Sandaime's apparent lack of strictness when it comes to Danzou's authority shows weakness in character, more just further example of his leniency and patience. Danzou was his good friend and comrade, he probably gave Danzou benefit of the doubt believing that he always had Konoha's best interest in mind. And no doubt Danzou kept a lot of things well under Sarutobi's radar too.

We've mostly seen Danzou at his worst, but my guess is that he was probably extremely competent and proved himself essential several times in the past (just that his means were very extreme). He also seems to carry some heavy influence over the village. Notice Tsunade wasn't about to take away his authority, even though she didn't like or trust him
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Old 2012-04-22, 22:35   Link #78
Discerptor
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When Kishimoto was focusing on Asuma, he revealed that he and his father had a falling out. It actually felt like Kishi was going to air some dirty laundry about Hiruzen. But he didn't go down that path and has always tried to portray him in a positive light. With Danzou as the bad guy. Which only makes Hiruzen look more like a weak leader who couldn't control Danzou.

To me it would be like Naruto being Hokage while Shikamaru is running a shadow government, and doing what he wanted right, under Naruto's nose. It would make Naruto look like a moron. More than usual.
I think the better and at least partially intended analogy would be to the relationship between Hashirama and Madara during the former's tenure as Hokage. We've seen through flashback that Madara had no issues screwing over other villages in ways that invalidated agreements they already had with Hashirama -- the exact thing we see Danzou doing here. The difference, of course, is that Madara eventually got cranky and ostracized enough to go through with openly challenging Hashirama. I would also point to Sasuke as a more likely dark counterpart to Naruto than Shikamaru, since I thought part of the intention of the Danzou fight was to relay a deep sense of irony in the fact that the man for whom Sasuke held such hatred and disgust was similar to him in a lot of ways.
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Old 2012-04-23, 08:46   Link #79
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I don't think Sandaime's apparent lack of strictness when it comes to Danzou's authority shows weakness in character, more just further example of his leniency and patience. Danzou was his good friend and comrade, he probably gave Danzou benefit of the doubt believing that he always had Konoha's best interest in mind. And no doubt Danzou kept a lot of things well under Sarutobi's radar too.

We've mostly seen Danzou at his worst, but my guess is that he was probably extremely competent and proved himself essential several times in the past (just that his means were very extreme). He also seems to carry some heavy influence over the village. Notice Tsunade wasn't about to take away his authority, even though she didn't like or trust him
I'm not sure you realize but your defense of Sandaime is actually a list of weaknesses.
First I'd argue that such a leniency and patience are a weakness of character in a leader but it's less about his behavior than his factual control over his village or lack there off. The very fact that Sandaime was oblivious to what was going on make him weak and even when he disagreed with Danzou's actions in the open as in the Uchiha's quarantine and slaughter case he was outruled and had to go along against his wishes. Add to this the fact that Yamato knew of the way Root members are brainwashed and forced to kill each others means it's not so much a secret as something that Sandaime couldn't stop. Danzou carrying so much political influence that Sandaime couldn't move against him also seals the fact that Sandaime was not powerful nor influential enough. Remember as well that Root had been officially disbanded to no effect in reality.

The very existence of a traitorous powerful political figure with a personal praetorian guards/back ops hit squad who ran Konoha's policies unchecked is antithetic with the notion that Sandaime was a powerful leader.
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Old 2012-04-23, 09:35   Link #80
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^Admittedly, Danzou could have simply genjutsu'd Sarutobi, especially when he had Shisui's eye.

Whatever the case, Kishimoto definitely turned a blind-eye to how Danzou makes Sarutobi look.
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