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Old 2012-04-21, 11:38   Link #29641
ZeroXSEED
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Well, I.S. development got into stale after AkaTsubaki broke the balance. Other Fourth Generation unit don't appear until five years after the story, for example.

Space Exploration more or less available again, and I.S. being less useful for military show of than they're carrying helium from Lunar mining operation (where else you get Deuterium aside form Jupiter?)

At least until Alien began to appear since Earth was recognized recently, had reached scale I Kadaschev for the first time. And then realized that they have the equivalent of I.S., lot's of it.

The bridge gap seems to be useful though, now for the next generation... maybe a perfect human-I.S. hybrid?
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Old 2012-04-21, 11:41   Link #29642
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so you need a next generation IS that would fit the criteria to match this scenario?^
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Old 2012-04-21, 11:48   Link #29643
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Well, that or I have Tabane as final big bad, who's just as powerful as every member of the cast combined due to her omnipotence

You see, there's roughly 20 years gap between ST and the sequel. This is EXTREMELY long time in I.S. verse, because in canon, I.S. experience leap roughly 3 years once. Something like 9th generation I.S. sound plains stupid... and I can't think of further evolution except Singularity.

Therefore, I decided to place it at 6th Generation, with 7th generation being final, almost game-breaker form (Human-I.S. hybrid).

Assuming the 5th generation use that concept of yours, what would 6th Generation like?
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Old 2012-04-21, 11:51   Link #29644
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Does it necessarily have to be a 20 year gap? Is there a reason for this? why not just make it 15? Are you aiming for something like the children of the Orimuras taking center stage?
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Old 2012-04-21, 11:52   Link #29645
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^ Precisely, that.

Actually, it's 23 year gap if my Math is right...
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Old 2012-04-21, 11:58   Link #29646
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I don't know what you have planned but if it's one of those "You are the destined one because you are your father's son" then I really can't help you because those kinds of things are a cop out to me... in most cases since they're usually written sloppily.(be careful where you tread)

7th generation can be the perfect human IS hybrid, but that's more of creation of a new life form.

6th generation would be finding a way not merely to bridge the gap between IS and humans but for a way to give IS life. IS currently have smart AI but they don't seem completely sentient. Maybe they realize having a sentient system may actually improve it? Singularity aside they should have multiple safeties on such a thing and 6th generation to them is merely a considered experimental stage.

The true 7th generation can be considered the last because it is in some religions coughchristianitycough considered the number of perfection.
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Old 2012-04-21, 12:02   Link #29647
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Trying to keep up with this ongoing discussion.

May I be enlightened about this "perfect human-IS hybrid" thing?
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Old 2012-04-21, 12:06   Link #29648
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Quote:
Originally Posted by demino_hellsin View Post
I don't know what you have planned but if it's one of those "You are the destined one because you are your father's son" then I really can't help you because those kinds of things are a cop out to me... in most cases since they're usually written sloppily.(be careful where you tread)
Quite right, but explicitly deconstructed here. Arata is more like a Xerox of Twins and Tatenashi combined. Overshadowed by his parents legacy, yet explicitly superior in everything, and plenty of times hated because of that. To the point of face heel turn, temporarily.

In short, a deconstructed Marty Stu. or a Broken Ace.

Quote:
Originally Posted by demino_hellsin View Post
7th generation can be the perfect human IS hybrid, but that's more of creation of a new life form.
Tabane: "Just as Planned"

Quote:
Originally Posted by demino_hellsin View Post
6th generation would be finding a way not merely to bridge the gap between IS and humans but for a way to give IS life. IS currently have smart AI but they don't seem completely sentient. Maybe they realize having a sentient system may actually improve it? Singularity aside they should have multiple safeties on such a thing and 6th generation to them is merely a considered experimental stage.
Quite possibly the point where I.S. and the pilot is perfectly synchronized but still count as separate entity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by demino_hellsin View Post
The true 7th generation can be considered the last because it is in some religions coughchristianitycough considered the number of perfection.
....what a coincidence (not a Christian here)

Quote:
Originally Posted by StratoSpear View Post
Trying to keep up with this ongoing discussion.

May I be enlightened about this "perfect human-IS hybrid" thing?
The pilot and I.S. is the one and the same.

A perfect lifeform, you can say.
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Old 2012-04-21, 12:16   Link #29649
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EDIT: wait a minute, this also means COCINNAVILIS from TLR Stratos is a Gen 6 (Neural interface, completely sentient AND loyal AI) not Gen 4!

oh God what I have done?
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Old 2012-04-21, 12:16   Link #29650
demino_hellsin
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hmm... in another way of looking at it...

6th generation: much easier access to one off ability (because the AI is sentient and can easily empathize with the pilot therefore insane synchronization as you just said)

7th generation: is not limited to one one off ability. (Since one off abilities are developed between the synchronization of an IS core and a pilot, I surmise that what is actually required from both parties is an innate sort of programming. "Designed focus" for the IS and "instinct" for the pilot. Since the 7th generation's design focus and instinct are one and the same thing, the number of abilities it has is only limited by its initial creation...)

My current impression of Arata: So he's the dark type of destined son?
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Old 2012-04-21, 12:28   Link #29651
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Originally, he's supposed to be ISO standard cheerful, heroic everyman harem hero. But that's not so much boring as is overdone. So I use "darkness under the shiny mask" excuse, pretty much like his father.

He could be the savior or the embodiment of apocalypse, he was the one that deciding the battle between order and chaos, rather than good and evil.

What's worse? The only thing initially flawed about him is Sync level... then it was found that he was supposed to use three cores for balancing reason (Specifically: 1 true core, 1 sub-core, and 1 pseudo-core).
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Old 2012-04-21, 12:31   Link #29652
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My impression of Arata: Now he just turned into a chimera god with a fractured mask parodying the appearance of a human.

and that kind of 3 core line-up sounds weird. How does it help his sync levels?
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Old 2012-04-21, 12:41   Link #29653
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^ Well, he also embodies both sides of argument regarding incest. So there, I just hope he'll still turned up likable and sympathetic.

Arata has excess Sync level that his scale loop back to measly C rank. In reality, his input bandwidth is extremely high, and risking of destroying the personality within main Core.

Sub-core working as stabilizer unit (keeping the excess input from Arata from overloading the main core) whereas the Pseudo-core end up as a fuse (the moment he start to override the true Core via Over-shift, Pseudo-core will sever itself and render the I.S. inoperable until the pseudo-core reactivated).

But still, in the end, his machine has 190% power output
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Old 2012-04-21, 12:47   Link #29654
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from the sounds of it, his synchronization ratios should be going to the negatives, not looping over. And if what I assume is the case, I don't really see how the sub-core helps. Pseudo core too...

Last edited by demino_hellsin; 2012-04-21 at 12:59.
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Old 2012-04-21, 12:59   Link #29655
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Half-baked idea about how OP a true harem hero SHOULD be, so most part of it are illogical or plain insane. I'm sorry if I confuse you.

Than let's review the ORIGINAL conception:
Quote:
Orimura Arata is the child of Orimura Twins, appears ordinary if not for his near-superhuman physical feat. Extrovert, friendly, heroic, and naive. In spite of his usual response, he actually knew about his own attractiveness, and sometimes embarrassed and horrified with it.

Plenty of other students wanted him as partner in more ways than one...
So, standard "Harem Hero as power source" idea, maybe with mild Power of Love and PG/T-Rated Deus Sex Machina.
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Last edited by ZeroXSEED; 2012-04-21 at 13:10.
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Old 2012-04-21, 13:04   Link #29656
demino_hellsin
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I am very much skepical with giving him the uber machine right off the bat but as of now, I'm starting to see the reasons and logic to the triple core system. I can surmise that such a set-up isn't strictly necessary since there are other ways of dealing with it or the instability becomes a great plot point. Also, a literal triple core means that he has practically 0% synchronization at all times. Synchronization means being able to act, think or move in tandem together. Though the sub core and pseudo core don't function like the main core does, I imagine he still has to sync with all of them at once. so yeah...

I'll explain in better detail in another 10 hours when I've had some sleep and done my chores.

Choice of personality is interesting but the approach to his harem is another thing I'm skeptical about. Sounds like something from Nasuverse but more disturbing.
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Old 2012-04-21, 13:06   Link #29657
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It got worse when the Dragon trick him into fusing with her during his moment of despair... causing a sense of... dissatisfaction to her, since he doesn't exactly comply with the... supposed teamwork.... he literally just sat there moping...

Then again, it's not like this concept never been done before (the original source, VITA Sexualis too, and Nasuverse analogy is not that far either)

EDIT: all in all, ST still far from completion and therefore, this Idea may be rendered moot if things went south. Hope it can end well, and thank you for the help.
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Last edited by ZeroXSEED; 2012-04-21 at 14:13.
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Old 2012-04-21, 14:09   Link #29658
StratoSpear
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Chipping another (in-Academy) duel scene.

This music pretty much sums it up: Link

Hint: Dueling lance users.
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Old 2012-04-21, 21:36   Link #29659
demino_hellsin
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@zero: If Arata really is using a 7th generation IS then he can't separate from it because we both concluded that 7th gen IS is a completely new lifeform which is both IS and human at once. This implies that either Arata is only the manager of said IS or he is the IS. With that in mind, his synchronization would always be 100% no exceptions.

Second is the reasoning I was talking about last night. If Arata's huge ego really is overwriting the IS core personality then that means his synchronization isn't going over 100% rather it's decreasing as time passes till he over writes the IS core.

Think of it in terms of math. 1 and 50 are very far apart, a ratio calculation would give you 2% meaning that's how much 1 is from 50. On the other hand 50 over 50 would give you 100%. going over 100% implies that you have a 60/50 ratio or something. But sync doesn't work that way. Should you go over 50/50 then sync will drop, think of it as the decay after the climax. (Hence why I said his sync should be dropping into negatives). The farther Arata's ego exceeds the Main core's takes him farther from the sync, giving him more control and absolutely more power but at the cost of his one off ability.

The sub core and pseudo core system must've been based of ideas of tanking. I'm guessing you imagined that the sync is like energy and if you split the containers then the main container won't be overloaded at once. It does make sense to some extent but I personally feel it's a redundant design. The main functions they serve can be replaced with a transmission limiter for the sub-core while the pseudo core can be exchanged with an internal system failsafe independent of both pilot and AI.
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Old 2012-04-21, 22:35   Link #29660
ZeroXSEED
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Regarding the synchronization, you're right, it was all about balance in my fanon.

> Less than 100% means the I.S. do a lot of job supporting the pilot and not operating at full capacity.
> 100% (S) means full synchro, optimum, near-flawless operation. OOA can be manifested during this condition.
> More than 100% (Over S) means the pilot began to take over the I.S. themselves, forcibly making the I.S. develop prematurely. It does grant monstrous performance, but it also has all sort of risk and drawback. Think how Amuro Ray overworking his Gundam by sheer reflex alone.

Regarding the 'three cores' bullshit it was mostly spur of the moment, and indeed really redundant. The reason of his sync ratio looping back is because newer I.S. are specifically designed to PREVENT Overshift, which is why the I.S. overworked just to suppress his influence. But from Meta POV, it's done to make him sounds overpowered

As for the classification of his I.S. in the original concept, he does merge with the I.S. physically, but they still have two separate soul than sync together. So you can say it's more like 6.5 generation. Of course, this means that the original concept doesn't have >100% sync ratio most of the time, similar to the parents. And there's no anti-Overshift mechanism developed either.
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