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Old 2005-12-18, 20:13   Link #41
Radiosity
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No worries I'll be around the thread still, but spoilers = not much to discuss without ruining the eps I haven't seen, so I'll likely be silent mostly.
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Old 2005-12-18, 21:09   Link #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AvatarST
Spoiler:
Spoiler:

And yeah, Radiosity... here you go saying (essentially) "maybe this thread won't be spoiler city this time", and I've gone and ruined it again. Sorry. Well, I'm looking forward to the day when we can all watch and understand this show together. It's a show that's been largely maligned in the English blogosphere, but has so much to offer if you look beneath the surface. Maybe, in the eyes of many, the show is doomed to the pages of failed sequels that should never have been created, but I personally think that'd be a shame.
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Old 2005-12-18, 21:30   Link #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by relentlessflame
Well, I'm looking forward to the day when we can all watch and understand this show together. It's a show that's been largely maligned in the English blogosphere, but has so much to offer if you look beneath the surface. Maybe, in the eyes of many, the show is doomed to the pages of failed sequels that should never have been created, but I personally think that'd be a shame.
Oh aye, I'd agree with that sentiment. And from the 16 episodes I've so far seen, I would have to say it's done a good job of holding my attention and generally keeping me very interested (as did season 1). Certainly not a 'failed sequel' by any means.

*cough* Alice helps to keep me interested though *cough*
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Old 2005-12-18, 22:44   Link #44
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I might take some heat for this, but here goes...

I've found the second season of Da Capo to be intensely disappointing. The biggest change to me has been the writing style. The first Da Capo was pretty much broken into two halves, a comedic first and a dramatic second. Both were really well done. The comedy in the first half I found to be witty and funny, with well-written conversations that flowed well and just the right amount of deformation in the characters during jokes. Asakura was a likeable protagonist; a goof but not wimpy or indecisive, funny and charismatic. His 'harem' was fairly limited; each girl got screen time, but Asakura knew who he liked and didn't lead the other girls on. The idea of 'everyone loves Asakura' was pretty muted, and when other girls confessed (Kotori, Sakura) they were rejected.

The second half I wasn't as drawn to, but I could acknowledge that it was also well-written, with some touching moments (Asakura opening up the box he receives after Miharu-robot shuts down, reading the note inside, and breaking down). It was also backed up by a surprising score that seemed to come out of nowhere after being absent in the first half. And the whole thing ended on a positive note, which is always nice.

Then we come to the second season....I'll admit part of my objection is seeing Kotori so strongly get the shaft over Nemu, who I found to be a generally unlikeable character due to her constant bursts of anger, but that's far from it. The whole series feels dumbed down. There are way too many girls now, reducing most characters to very little screen time. Asakura is much more a piece of meat to be fought over, and is portrayed as much more whiny/needy/lazy. Aisia was an OK character for awhile, but I was shocked to find the emphasis of the series entirely on her and her Saturday-morning-special-'magic makes everyone happy!' message. The script is generally less funny and witty and just lacking. Bleh. I also feel like Nemu came back -way- too early in the series and was handed pretty much total victory on the romantic front, ending the series' main source of tension almost immediately. (And as a side note, since Asakura and Nemu are definately lovers, could she stop calling him 'Nii-san'? Creepy.)
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Old 2005-12-18, 23:26   Link #45
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Arnyer, I'm not going to give you any heat, of course. All I can say, with absolute confidence, is that you don't "get" it yet. Keep watching the rest of the show and, if you pay attention to what's really going on, you just might understand what they're trying to say. I'm not saying this because I'm trying to talk down to you or because I think I'm superior, but because, after (seemingly) everyone else in this forum expressed similar feelings, and now having seen where the show has gone since, I think I understand what the show's trying to accomplish a bit better now than I did then. The subtle and indirect storytelling style of Second Season is definitely not as obvious as either part of season one. There's a reason for everything (even the little things, sometimes to my amazement), and it's very carefully laid out. The source of tension in this show has both nothing and everything to do with Nemu and Junichi as a couple, but in a way that also has everything to do with the end of season one... and I can't say much more about that without delving into spoiler territory. Needless to say, your feelings and impressions aren't "wrong" -- hang onto them -- but pay attention to what they're trying to tell you about those feelings. You might still end up disliking the sequel in the end, but at least you might understand that everything they did, they did for a reason, and to deliver a message to you, the viewer. That's truly the best advice I can give you, for what it's worth.
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Old 2005-12-19, 12:15   Link #46
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Relentlessflame, it seems like to me that you think that DCSS is a psychological serie, with hidden messages.

Why not use the simplest explenation! The writers just wrote a story! I am not going to say that it was a good or a bad one, but just a story.
You might find a reason for everything, but that doesn't mean the writers put it there on purpose!
The only way we can truly understand what the writers mean by this story is if they explain it to us personally, in the meantime we can only guess.

Quote:
but pay attention to what they're trying to tell you about those feelings
To deliver a message using feelings is very difficult, because everybody feels different. For example, nemufans will be cheering while Kotorifans (like me) will not be "cheering". So in the end both groups may not get the message!

Quote:
The source of tension in this show has both nothing and everything to do with Nemu and Junichi as a couple
How can you say nothing, they were the center of the storyline, everything resolved around them.

I know that you are not a bad person and that you didn't want to put ARNYER down, but it sounds like that to me.

You say to arnyer that he doesn't "get" it yet and later on he just might understand it. What if he never does? Would that make him dumber than you?
What if arnyer already "gets" it, but he gives it a different perspective on it?
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Old 2005-12-19, 14:56   Link #47
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I put my response to Searcher's post in spoiler tags because it borders on being off-topic, and I don't want to derail the thread. You can probably safely skip this part if you're not interested.
Spoiler:


In talking to a translator friend of mine about this, he offers this as indicative of the real meaning of this show - a translation of what Suginami said in the next episode preview at the end of episode 23. You can say this show has no deeper meaning if you want, but listen to their words instead.
Spoiler for Episode 24 Preview:

That's what these episodes are all about, according to the author. Think about it, at least.

Last edited by relentlessflame; 2005-12-19 at 16:21.
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Old 2005-12-19, 16:29   Link #48
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dont get what the hoopla is about

seems like there is a group of fans who didnt like the way season 1 ended and hoped that season 2 your girl of choice will end up with junichi. you felt that was what the show was about since nemu wasnt in episode 1.

i never played the games or know much about this show except what i saw in season 1. it was pretty clear from season 1 that kotori confessed her feelings but was shot down. also sakura lost cause junichi choose nemu.

season 2 was different in that nemu was missing... but even in episode 1 you know he wasnt over her just cause she was gone. i didnt know where she went and heck even thought she was dead but turned out she was studying out of town in a different school. could easily tell he was still in love with her and was trying to get by being alone.

when aisia came i knew she was be important to the story and as her story developed picked up on magic makes everyone happy line... but knew that was bogus just by the various anime shows i have seen.

i think the story for season 2 is about aisia and how she learns about magic and that magic isnt the magic bullet that makes everyone happy as she thinks it is. its how she learns and develops that is the story and the plot device to show this is nemu/junichi. how you cant make everyone happy... this is true in the case of love. once you have a number of people in love with 1 person, that person can only love 1 person and the rest are hurt... there is no way to make everyone happy cause even if you change the outcome... someone is hurt. and this goes to also show that ones true feelings can overcome magic. junichi overcame the magic in season 1 to find nemu again. nemu and junichi hooking up again will drive in the point to aisia.

sorry for the fans of the various girls but do you really think the girl will be happy cause junichi hooks up with em cause he forgot his true feelings? i would feel sorry for the girl he goes with due to him forgetting. whats to stop him from forgetting again cause Y girl wasnt happy she wasnt picked so she made a wish on the tree?

Looking forward to how this plays out for Aisia, wills she help sakura fix her wish or hold on and just not get it till the very end.
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Old 2005-12-19, 17:19   Link #49
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Yup, BettiePage, I think you've got it perfectly (although you may want to put all that in [ spoiler ] tags). Seeing you explain the show so succinctly makes me wonder why I felt I had to go about it all in such a roundabout (and lengthy - sorry) way - it is afterall, quite well-explained. I suppose, to be quite honest, it's because I feel the one who most needs to understand the message of the show isn't Aisia (because I'm sure she'll come around), but the audience, and specifically the people who seem most closed to it. Sort of ironic how that works out. This isn't the show they wanted to see, but it's the message they most needed to hear - at least, the producers must think so. That's what I find interesting about this show.
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Old 2005-12-19, 19:08   Link #50
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I should probally have refrased my last line of mine post a bit better, but i was tired and when i am tired my english tends to fall behind.

Quote:
Searcher, if you want to believe this show is a simple, surface-level, Nemu x Junichi love fest, be my guest, but don't expect me to do the same. I personally can't avoid seeing the connections in this show - I can't see them all as simple coincidences. To me, that it was done on purpose is the only explanation that makes sense
Maybe the reason why you got under my skin is that you sound like a preacher, meaning that you are absolutly convinced that there is a hidden message in the serie. That everything is there for a reason. I DON'T have a problem with what you believe in, maybe your right and then i can learn from it or maybe your wrong. But you "sound" like that you are right and everybody elses opinion is wrong.

Quote:
I want to share and discuss it with others, because that's how we see if there's any truth or validity to our thoughts
But when i tell mine opinion of the serie that it's not very well written etc, i get attacked that i am just a pissed of kotorifan and that's why i don't like the serie.
That i don't get the "deeper meaning".

Quote:
Do you really think I'm that insecure?
I don't know and i really don't care, i am here to talk and learn about DCSS, not think about you. Strange as it might seems.

Quote:
demonstrate what you feel the truth is
I am not here to tell other people what the truth is, not mine or anybody elses truth.
I only give mine opinion.
All i said was, what if there all is a simple story, no hidden message.

Quote:
But please don't do this whole defensive thing
What defensive thing, you write so much, i get a headache just from reading and understanding it all. Even more when i have to come with a reply.

Quote:
then what's the point in storytelling
To listen and enjoy to a nice story, that's all for me.

Quote:
why the authors wrote the story
Just maybe they just wanted to tell their story, nothing more nothing less.
You make it sound like everything, for example, harry potter does in the books has some deeper meaning to it. If he should pick up a glass then there is no deeper meaning to it. He just picked up a glass.
If i watch an action movie and see some explosion, i don't think the explosion has a deeper meaning to it. It's just a big boom to me.

Quote:
If you don't want to learn from this show, you won't; you'll just walk away calling it a shitty sequel that screwed Kotori over, and resent the day the producers ever decided to create it. If that's the way it's going to be, then what's there to discuss? Why keep watching? Why didn't you give up on D.C.S.S. long ago, and why shouldn't Arnyer do the same now? If that's your conclusion, then why bother arguing with me? Aren't you wasting your time?
It not that i want to learn from the show, it's if i get the message. Even if i "get" the message, it doesn't mean that i think the serie was good. I can still "call it a shitty sequel that screwed Kotori over, and resent the day the producers ever decided to create it".
I have stopped discussing DCSS a long time ago (or does it seems like a long time). Why watch it? I usually see an anime to the end, a fatal flaw of mine.
I didn't tell arnyer to stop watching DCSS, i didn't tell him anything.
Why arguing with you?? Guess i like to argue, but you got under my skin as i said above.

Since when did i tell people not to watch season2 anymore, all i can remember is telling mine opinion about the serie. I honestly cann't remember telling anybody not to watch DCSS.

In conclusion, (it's late and me tired) if you see a deeper meaning in everything (movies, books, comic etc) that's fine for you.
But atleast think that other people don't think like you do.
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Old 2005-12-19, 19:46   Link #51
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Spoiler for DCSS analysis and thoughts:
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Old 2005-12-19, 20:06   Link #52
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I apologize for getting "under your skin", Searcher. That was never the point of my reply to Arnyer. And, in retrospect, I probably did phrase what I was trying to say poorly, but at the time (keep in mind "it was late and I was tired" applies to me too) I couldn't think of how else to say what I was trying to say. I since explained, and hope that you can understand what I meant to say instead. I wasn't trying to tell him that he was wrong, only that there's still more to see yet. If he sees it all and still says the same thing, then the producers failed to make a show that he'd enjoy. That's their failure, not mine.

Obviously I don't think every word and action has hidden meaning - you're exaggerating my point. But at the same time, if you take every action at face value and don't consider the intent or reasons behind it, or how it connects to the rest of the story, you'll miss a lot of details that might have helped you understand and appreciate the show. From my perspective, D.C.S.S. has many such connections and details. I didn't intend to sound "preachy" by saying that and, if I did, I apologize.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Searcher
All i said was, what if there all is a simple story, no hidden message.
Then, in my mind, the show would make no sense whatsoever. Why start with Kotori, if you're going to end with Nemu? Why did Nemu leave if she was only going to come back? Why did Aisia play such a big role? What was the point in bringing the P.S. girls in? Why all this talk of "using magic to make people happy"? I just can't see how you could make sense of the show by looking only at the actions, and not at the intent. If that's all there was, you'd pretty much have to blame it on bad, incompetent writers. However, if I do look beneath the surface, the show becomes a lot more logical and makes a lot more sense to me. Since I know a large team of people worked very hard to create this sequel, I choose to believe that they had a logical reason for doing so. And it's pretty much as simple as that. Basically, I just want to make sense of the show as best as I can.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Searcher
But atleast think that other people don't think like you do.
Of course! That's the whole reason I'm on a discussion forum - to discuss! If everyone simply agreed with me, that'd be boring as hell. Talking to people with different opinions is the best way to learn. That's what I want to do. If I've screwed up along the way, offended people, and intimidated them into not sharing their opinion, then I am at fault and I can only apologize (and I do). But I'm only human, like everyone else, and all I can offer is my opinion too. I really don't think I'm "high and mighty", but I guess that too requires a bit of faith.

P.S. By the way, don't think for a second that I wouldn't enjoy seeing an alternate D.C. with a Kotori ending - but, then again, that's why we've got the game.
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Old 2005-12-19, 23:06   Link #53
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I'm loving this, you all have brought so much life into this thread

But, with episode 26 around the corner, the next task will be to keep the life of this thread alive for those who watch fansubs. Think you guys are willing to go back in time when particular subs get released? ....

And I too believe there's much to the story of DC than just a simple story. But of course, anything with cute civilized girls is good enough to me
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Old 2005-12-19, 23:38   Link #54
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And I too believe there's much to the story of DC than just a simple story. But of course, anything with cute civilized girls is good enough to me
Come now, mangatron... let's be honest, here. Who says they have to be civil, so long as they're cute?

And yeah, I'll be sticking with D.C.S.S. for a while yet; in fact, I'm going back even further... but I'll try not to do so damn much talking...
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Old 2005-12-19, 23:59   Link #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by relentlessflame
Come now, mangatron... let's be honest, here. Who says they have to be civil, so long as they're cute?

And yeah, I'll be sticking with D.C.S.S. for a while yet; in fact, I'm going back even further... but I'll try not to do so damn much talking...
See, the thing is, take Amaenaideyo for example. The girls act in a way that leads to the fanservice unstoppable. Well, what I mean is, it all just leads to fanservice anyways, as in Koi koi 7 it relies on that. They're cute, yes, but....A shame the girls are the victims there, because my definition of civilized, best example I got, Kozue Aoba of Mahoraba. 0 fanservice in the series, and yet I nosebleeded like Niagara Falls

Or the To Heart 2 girls, they all act like normal girls living a life around a particular male.....character.

There are some girls out there that aren't civilized, there are some that are. It's the ones that are that I like most (yeah, I'm not a big fan of Love Hina....)

Maybe I'm just having a drought of great romance series. But Lamune and Canvas are looking good here, I really think it all boils down to my real life right now, how busy it is, etc....

I became Mahoraba's greatest fan because of Kozue-chan, that alone should define me
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Old 2005-12-20, 10:30   Link #56
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I should have a post-it on mine monitor that says, "don't ever post if you worked hard and didn't sleep long enough".
I get a "bit" testy when that happens, sorry.

Just forget everything what i said, this serie is almost over and i don't want to end bad on the forum.

Quote:
From my perspective, D.C.S.S. has many such connections and details
Please tell me what your theory is and why you think that way, tell me the connections and details in each eps. But please don't write so much, keep it simple.

I really would like to know, to see what i missed. So i will see them in the future series.
After i read your thoughts and i agree with you, then i am not to proud to appologize and say that you were right.

Spoiler for AvatarST thought over Da capo:
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Old 2005-12-20, 10:53   Link #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mangatron
best example I got, Kozue Aoba of Mahoraba. 0 fanservice in the series, and yet I nosebleeded like Niagara Falls
You me both. Kozue just has that effect

Quote:
Originally Posted by mangatron
But Lamune and Canvas are looking good here
Too right, I'm loving both those series to bits (in two completely different ways as well, which is nice). Lamune is a nice slowpoke series that's really enjoyable to watch on it's own merits (I haven't compaired it to another series even once yet). And Canvas is just all round great
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Old 2005-12-20, 17:02   Link #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Searcher
Please tell me what your theory is and why you think that way, tell me the connections and details in each eps. But please don't write so much, keep it simple.
All the connections and details, in each episode, briefly? Oh, good luck... If Aisia's magical reset hadn't affected this forum too, I might have been able to look back at my previous posts and summarize from that (DA*N YOU AISIA! )... but, the basic setup is what BettiePage explained earlier. To reiterate briefly...

Spoiler for D.C.S.S. Overall Plot (only two paragraphs, really!):
Anyway... brief enough? I tried not to get too wordy, but sorry if it's still confusing.

P.S. Mahoraba is indeed great - looking forward to getting the last DVD in a few weeks! As for Canvas and Lamune... just haven't had the time to dive into them yet...
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Old 2005-12-20, 21:03   Link #59
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i didn't really like da capo the first season. but everyone's talking about the second season so i was wondering if it was better than the first season or not. will someone please fill me in? what happen in the second season?
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Old 2005-12-20, 22:56   Link #60
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I have seen the first 16 episodes of DCSS and I would have to say I prefer the first season.

The central theme of magic is supposed to make everyone happy v. magic can't do everything and love beats magic don't make up for some problems in the second season.
The first season's fanservice and comedy was witty and/or advanced the plot. When Juunichi had that dream about Nemu in episode 2. It was just fanservice, it showed that Juunichi had some pretty "unbrotherly" feelings toward Nemu. Moe's bra joke was funny in a witty way. The joke would have been pretty pointless if you didn't know an ostrich's egg is huge. For the second season we have Moe getting her top pulled off by a monkey and about 4 thinly veiled bondage scenes.

Other flaws-way too many females. Alice, Tamaki, Miharu, Nemu, manga chick, Moe, Maki, Kotori, Misako?(the cat's owner), etc. The pacing for this series suffered quite a bit.

What I have liked - Nemu and Juunichi, if Juunichi ended up with anyone else it would have been a slap in the face of the first season. Moreover, it would have made Juunichi, the scumbag that dumped Nemu for working toward her dream.
The idea of moving on as illustrated through Kotori.

I'll still watch the series as long as its subbed since the series still isn't that bad but the first series was good (not great).

Btw, so far Canvas (1-10) has been pretty good. The plot has been fairly fast paced, they avoided having every single female drooling over the male lead, the male lead is a student teacher as opposed to a student and both female leads were rejected.

Shuffle really improved after episode 11. Although, I didn't like ep. 11 it was nice that they decided to have the teacher and Mayumi share one episode as opposed to wasting time by giving each minor character their own episode (DCSS).
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