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Old 2012-04-22, 00:38   Link #281
TJR
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kuromitsu View Post
Well, Roman Catholics are Christian, too... But for someone like Kaoru who doesn't know Christianity well (like most Japanese) except for the usual "church-cross-Jesus" thing, I suppose all Christian denominations seem the same.
For what it's worth, several Protestant denominations teach that the Catholic, Oriental Orthodox, and Eastern Orthodox traditions are not Christian. The assertion is that those faiths have become heretical/Satanic/corrupted for various reasons (i.e. the use of icons and the veneration of the Virgin Mary/Theotokos, the introduction of non-Biblical concepts into doctrine, the lack of predestined salvation in their beliefs, etc.), thus they may no longer lay claim to the designation.

I'm not sure if this is causing some of the confusion in this thread, but I've come across it in various discussions about religion. Catholicism is generally considered the largest branch of Christianity (and Catholics will identify themselves as Christians), but some draw a distinction between the two.
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Old 2012-04-22, 19:04   Link #282
FredFriendly
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Ri-chan in her swimsuit

I couldn't find a copy of this complete image anywhere, so I extracted it from episode 2.



I can't fault Kaoru at all for having feelings for this sweet and lovely beauty.

PS: Although I have been wandering around animesuki for quite a while now, this is only my second post to any of the forums. Please bear with me while I hone my skills as a poster. I hope to be able to get along with everyone.
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Old 2012-04-22, 19:09   Link #283
monir
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FredFriendly View Post

PS: Although I have been wandering around animesuki for quite a while now, this is only my second post to any of the forums. Please bear with me while I hone my skills as a poster. I hope to be able to get along with everyone.
Welcome to the forum! Just so you know, I can't see the picture you posted. I reuploaded your url at PostImage in the following:



She is gorgeous!
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Old 2012-04-22, 20:31   Link #284
FredFriendly
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monir View Post
Welcome to the forum! Just so you know, I can't see the picture you posted. I reuploaded your url at PostImage in the following:



She is gorgeous!
Thanks monir! Since I have read thousands of posts of many, many animesuki threads, I figured it was time for me to contribute a little something to the community.

I don't know why you couldn't see the image, as it works for me. Did you get an error message? You've confused me though, if you couldn't see the image, how could you post it somewhere else (not that I mind).

And, yes, she really is beautiful. It's a pleasure to see a woman in an anime who actually looks like an honest-to-goodness, down-to-earth beauty, and not the typical female caricature with exaggeratedly enhanced assets.
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Old 2012-04-23, 12:07   Link #285
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Liked epi 2 a lot more then epi 1, live session was amazing. As others have stated Im hoping Kaoru's narration at the end was more on Sen then himself since I dont want a love triangle or square in this case if you throw in Ri-chan. Hoping they stick to the pairings that have been kind of established.
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Old 2012-04-23, 15:25   Link #286
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On all the discussions about Kaoru encountering Christianity....

Historically R. Cath. was the earliest of the Christian churches to preach in Japan. But it also contributed to Europeans in general (except the Dutch on a once a year basis) from setting foot on Japan for over 200 years. Ever since Europeans were kicked out of Japan several centuries back in the minds of most Japanese Christianity in general is associated with R. Cath. and as something that is "European"; i.e. that is not naturally ... erm ... organic to Japanese culture and people, etc.

Many Japanese retain the basic (sometimes unspoken) belief system they grew up, which is kinda synchrotistic in the sense that they kinda "absorb" aspects of Christianity and take it to themselves while making it "their own" (i.e. in contrast with the paradigm change most of us are familiar with Christianity expecting from one).

A lot of that is reflected in Enzo's earlier post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo View Post
I've seen nothing indicating that Watanabe is anything but the "Born Shinto, die Buddhist" combination that's predominant in Japan - including no mention by him in an interview he did with the mangaka, Kodama Yuki, where her religion was discussed.

During that interview, incidentally, Kodama-sensei said that she's not a Christian, but attended a Christian school as a young girl and fell in love with Jesus because she thought he was hot...
Therefore, with all that being said it is absolutely true that "American Black Gospel hymns" would have been rarer over in Japan than Hen's teeth at this time, as BBOven Guy rightly pointed out. The main exposure to music that had origins in similar roots as the Black Gospel hymns sung in some American churches would definitely be in Jazz and any other musical "blossomings" from the stream that produced Jazz later on.

It is also true what TJR pointed out - many Protestants nowadays do regard R. Cath., East. Orthod., etc. as deviations from what they consider to be Christianity, and in Japan today there are a fair number of "sects" (some with Christian roots, some not) that have intense followings - picture the hard core otaku spirit immersed in religion ... only the most extreme generally "make the news" in the English speaking world.

Anyway, all these only further add to the confusion in how to regard Christianity, any variation thereof, or religious things from the European/American continents to begin with. But one thing many people still hold to somewhere inside is that "all that sort of thing" is something "non Japanese".

So Kaoru's reaction to the Church as only "Christian" and not as specific as English speaking audience's might have identified is hardly surprising to me.

Still ... all that being said I must admit I was quite surprised to see Christianity pop up (and in a semi normal light?) in ep 2. Lets face it - most (perhaps not all) of the time when Christianity does pop up in contemporary anime series it is R. Cath. in an all girl's school with yuri undertones....

Oh yes - one more thing: SeijiSensei is totally correct - Ri-chan's head covering was very "standard" in the R. Cath. churches at the time. Even after Vatican II (I think the anime is supposed to take place in 1966?) the changes were introduced slowly in some places, and some parts of Catholicism even deliberately kept the older practices.
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Old 2012-04-23, 17:40   Link #287
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The other thing that caught my attention was Sentaro wearing the rosary around his neck, and Ritsuko saying him doing that was a special case or something. The first thing that popped into my head was the notion that Sentaro was aiming for the priesthood - thus falling in love with a girl would be a problem if he was Catholic but not if he was Protestant.

However, then I did some poking around and found that wearing the rosary around your neck is not something associated with priests - although some wear one on their belts. So maybe there's nothing to that bit after all.
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Old 2012-04-23, 18:44   Link #288
SeijiSensei
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I went back and watched the scene again, and he is wearing a rosary. As Ritsuko says that's not common; I wondered if it was hers Sentaro was wearing.

We all carried our rosaries in little plastic pouches in our pockets. Nuns sometimes wear them hanging from their waists, but I don't recall any parish priests who did that. I was an altar boy and attended Catholic school for a good chunk of my childhood, so I think I would have noticed. It wasn't uncommon to wear a crucifix hanging from a chain or string around one's neck, a common symbol of Christian belief in anime, but never a rosary.

Spoiler for rosaries:

Now that I watched it again, I can see how, from his reaction to Ritsuko's comments about their priest, Sentaro might be considering a vocation in the priesthood. Maybe wearing a rosary about the neck is a Japanese Catholic practice, or maybe just an invention by the writers. (The script for episode two is by Kakihara Yuuko; I can't find any biographical information about her via Google.)
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Old 2012-04-23, 19:36   Link #289
Pacify
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So far this is proving to be my favourite series of the season. its a really lovely feel to it, very refreshing from the norm
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Old 2012-04-23, 19:56   Link #290
DragoonKain3
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Iunno, but new girl IMO looks about 3x more attractive as Ri'ko. Such a shame Sen thinks the same, though.

(But don't worry, love isn't all about lust... yeah, that's it!)


Quote:
Originally Posted by SeijiSensei View Post
Now that I watched it again, I can see how, from his reaction to Ritsuko's comments about their priest, Sentaro might be considering a vocation in the priesthood. Maybe wearing a rosary about the neck is a Japanese Catholic practice, or maybe just an invention by the writers. (The script for episode two is by Kakihara Yuuko; I can't find any biographical information about her via Google.)
No no no, anything but that . I'd take Sen choosing damsel-in-distress rather than taking to priesthood. I dunno, it just kinda undermines his 'free-spirited delinquent with a passion for music' character for me. T_T

But thinking about it, if Sen does become ordained, I can't help thinking he'll be the Great Priest Sentaro... setting you back towards the path of goodness through hands-on "tough love". XD
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Old 2012-04-23, 23:34   Link #291
SeijiSensei
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I happened to see a slightly older friend tonight who was also raised Catholic and works as a criminal defense attorney. (He usually handles career criminals and the occasional murderer.) When I asked him if he recalled ever seeing someone wear a rosary around the neck, he said he had seen it only once. One of his defendants wore a rosary as a necklace to court, presumably to encourage the judge or jury to think of him as a nice Catholic boy who at worst had strayed. (He was acquitted, as it turns out.) Other than that my friend has also never seen a rosary worn as a necklace. Hearing about his client felt strangely coincidental, though, since it resonated with Sentaro's bad-boy role.

I'd prefer it if wearing the rosary proves to be some form of penance as TinyRedLeaf suggested, perhaps for some horrible act in his past. I hope it's not that he killed someone. You'd think if he had that to carry around in his life he wouldn't be so quick to mix it up with the seniors on the roof.
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Old 2012-04-24, 02:01   Link #292
kuromitsu
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Re: rosary, it's actually a bit complicated (we learn the full details in volume 8, I just hope the anime gets around it... damn this shortness). It's less about religion and more of a personal thing, sort of.

Btw, one thing that was cut from the anime is that when Sen and Kaoru first meet,
Spoiler for spoiler? unanimated details?:


(Also, to be honest, without wanting to offend anyone, I'm a bit baffled about "Catholics/etc. are not Christian"... Am I right in thinking that this is mostly an American thing? In my country many Protestant denominations use a variation on our cognate for "Christian" when they refer to themselves, claiming that's the real/traditional form of the word, but I don't think I've seen any Protestants claim that Catholics are not Christians.)

Last edited by kuromitsu; 2012-04-24 at 02:29.
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Old 2012-04-24, 02:02   Link #293
sa547
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Finally got to watch Episode 02. As cool as it gets, and perfectly in time for summer (in my country, where we're experiencing very hot afternoons right now, according to the weather service)... and a little bit of Ritsuko's brand of service under the Sasebo (I found this out while watching one of the vids on the official site) sun.

It's not unusual in my country where some devotees (including Pacquiao) wear the rosary on a daily basis, both as a talisman for good luck and a way to show one's faith.

If one wonders why there are some Navy sailors wandering about in town, since the end of World War II, Sasebo served as a home port for a portion of the US Seventh Fleet and of the Maritime Self-Defense Force, which explains why the town is influenced by the influx of American culture from the servicemen, especially jazz.



Oh, and I forgot one more thing:
Spoiler for Who?:
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Old 2012-04-24, 02:15   Link #294
sergel02
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Just dropping by. I've heard good things and read good reviews about this anime, so i may check it out. Tho i hope it's funny too.
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Old 2012-04-24, 08:15   Link #295
LKK
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kuromitsu View Post
(Also, to be honest, without wanting to offend anyone, I'm a bit baffled about "Catholics/etc. are not Christian"... Am I right in thinking that this is mostly an American thing? In my country many Protestant denominations use a variation on our cognate for "Christian" when they refer to themselves, claiming that's the real/traditional form of the word, but I don't think I've seen any Protestants claim that Catholics are not Christians.)
It's a belief held by some of the more evangelical Protestants. Not all evangelicals believe this, of course, and it may not be official evangelical doctrine. But yes, some do believe it. For example, my freshman college roommate was Catholic. When my grandparents asked what her religion was, their response to my answer was and I quote "We were hoping you'd get a good Christian girl."
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Old 2012-04-24, 10:20   Link #296
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This anime is really refreshing. Damn some good old jazz !
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Old 2012-04-24, 13:25   Link #297
AbZeroNow
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Watched the second episode last night. Really liked the fight sequence where Sentarou comes to Kaoru's rescue after a group of thugs jumped him and tied him to a statue. It was interesting to see Kaoru man up himself after Ritsuko untied him, and try to help Sentarou win the fight.

I also loved seeing the details on the "Moanin'" record like the Blue Note label, and how Kaoru kept trying to match the recording by running down to the piano while his aunt was away. The music in this anime is really good, but then again since Yoko Kanno is the composer, I would expect that.

The jam session was pure joy, and it was good to see "Brother Jun" the trumpeter(interesting how there are two good characters this season who play the trumpet) and Ritsuko's dad the bassist. Kaoru's hesistation and then finally his ability to get into it with the piano was a sight to see.

Also really liked the BGM while Kaoru was swimming around Ritsuko(after Sentarou basically threw them both into the water. Don't try that at home ).

Overall, the first two episodes of this series have been very strong. It has had great subtle character moments(Kaoru noticing Sentarou's rosary, Kaoru handing Ritsuko his glasses before charging at the bullies), fantastic music, and the direction is top-notch. While others may hype up Hyouka and Fate/Zero for their animation and story, Sakamichi no Appollon marks very well in both animation and story, and it has heart to boot. If the series keeps doing its magic through its 12 episode run, then this will be the best anime of the season in a very strong season(right now I'd say that this and Uchuu Kyoudai are the top shows of the season followed closely by Fate/Zero)
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Old 2012-04-24, 14:05   Link #298
Sides
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Gosh, so many good series this season. This one will stay on my to watch list. Not too sure what to think about religion being, probably, central part of the story. However that actually grab my attention, besides that little jam session they had in the cellar, kind of reminded me of my youth.
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Old 2012-04-24, 20:35   Link #299
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http://www.apollon-jazz.com/

The samples for every single track is up now, including information about who composed what. Enjoy!

Yoko Kanno - Tracks 1, 2, 7, 8, 9, 10, 14, 15, 17, 22
mabanua - Tracks 11, 20
Takashi Matsunaga - Track 19

Jazz Standards - Tracks 3, 4, 5, 6, 12, 13, 16, 18, 21, 23, 24
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Old 2012-04-25, 01:24   Link #300
kuromitsu
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^Also, the vocals:

Tejima Aoi, Nanri Yuuka as Rikko (!) and Furukawa Masayoshi as Junichi (!! Why not Suwabe Junichi, it's not like he can't sing... I suppose his English is not good enough).

So we'll have Rikko sing "My Favorite Things" and we'll have the scene where Junichi sings "But Not For Me." (But I can't help but be a little disappointed that it's not going to be Suwabe Junichi...)

Last edited by kuromitsu; 2012-04-25 at 01:47.
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