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Old 2012-04-24, 21:35   Link #661
andyjay729
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Originally Posted by Westlo View Post
Yep, don't really know how anyone can hate on the animation level for this show, it's a tour de force @ the moment.... I can see problems with the art but animation.. c'mon son. As for the show itself... well that's another story.



It's Shaft Head Tilt.
Sorry to change the subject, but I wonder if the Shaft tilt is their homage to the Kubrick stare.
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Old 2012-04-24, 22:53   Link #662
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So far my impression of the three main characters are as follows:

Eru: What caught me off guard is her "I can't stop thinking" mode. It's probabily one of the more interesting aspect of this show, but this might get repeatitive so timing is important.

Houtaro: His Kuudere attitude is fine for now but something about Eru caught his attention. It's probabily her gigantic glowing eyes. Hope he gets character development later on.

Satoshi: He seemed to understand Houtaro a little too well. Perhaps, I can ship this pair over Eru to spice things up a bit.

One of the reason why I think people felt bored is because the story was told from Houtaro's POV and he's a boring guy, i won't deny that. At least, Kyon isn't this boring and his Tsukkomi remarks are hilarious. If say Eru was the focus and everything was seen from her perspective, I wonder what the show would it look like. Just from her "I can't stop thinking" mode is quite interesting.

I can't real say this show is boring or not until I've seen more episodes. Character interaction is the only thing that interested me for the time being, but I want to see where this leads. Looking forward to the fourth character next episode.
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Old 2012-04-25, 01:30   Link #663
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I really loved this! It's my kind of series. And Hotaro is pretty much like me, low-power, down to the motto, minus the cool friend and cute gal.
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Old 2012-04-25, 02:10   Link #664
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Originally Posted by LC View Post
Man, I have never seen a show to get such hate everywhere on the web. It's even more ridiculous considering the fact that it's at worst, boring. However, it's not overly-cliche or pandering. It has great animation and voice acting. If this were by any other studio, would it be getting such a vehemently hateful response by some people? tl;dr LEAVE HYOUKA ALONE!!1!!!
I've looked up on a lot of blogs reviewing this show and I'd have to have say that there's more positive response than negative ones.

Furthermore hate is such a strong word. Finding the episode boring(because it really is) does not equate to hate.
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Old 2012-04-25, 02:53   Link #665
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People are just harsh about this show because its KyoAni and its popular. People tend to be more analytic and skeptic because they don't wanna sound stupid and go along with the hype this show has. Or maybe they're just sour that they're not doing KEY anymore.

Kyoani will never get a break. People always tell Kyoani to be more ambitious but I actually like the guts of Kyoani to do what they like to do. In a way they're very masturbatory. After K-ON and CLANNAD, they've been doing relatively obscure shows (that unfortunately has the same genre as what they've always been doing) like Nichijou and this. Heck while I hated the whole Endless 8 debacle, I like the guts that they actually made it.

Or maybe I'm just turning everything people are saying around and its kinda weird to say that they have guts to sticking to their guns but I guess that's how I interpret it.
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Old 2012-04-25, 03:04   Link #666
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Endless Eight feedback is going to haunt them till the end of the world, isn't it?

ADD] I always found it interesting how one can relate the fan-rage from Endless Eight with what happens in Endless Eight. We experienced it only eight times, over a course of eight weeks, and it damn near made a lot of folks froth at the mouth and sacrifice babies. It really enhances the sympathetic plight of Yuki in that arc.

Heh.
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Old 2012-04-25, 03:06   Link #667
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Originally Posted by ahelo View Post
Or maybe I'm just turning everything people are saying around and its kinda weird to say that they have guts to sticking to their guns but I guess that's how I interpret it.
I find this rhetoric amusing because people like me accuse them of exactly the opposite, that they have no guts and only do what they're comfortable with (E8 debacle aside, I mean they were out of their minds to do that...).

Regardless, KyoAni has built a reputation that has earned them a certain level of expectation, so with that comes more scrutiny. If this were just another studio, many of us would have shrugged it off and probably dropped it. You could say their ability to perform is what may keep many people around rather than the actual merits of the work, which for me are nonexistent.
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Old 2012-04-25, 03:08   Link #668
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Originally Posted by ahelo View Post
People are just harsh about this show because its KyoAni and its popular. People tend to be more analytic and skeptic because they don't wanna sound stupid and go along with the hype this show has. Or maybe they're just sour that they're not doing KEY anymore.

Kyoani will never get a break. People always tell Kyoani to be more ambitious but I actually like the guts of Kyoani to do what they like to do. In a way they're very masturbatory. After K-ON and CLANNAD, they've been doing relatively obscure shows (that unfortunately has the same genre as what they've always been doing) like Nichijou and this. Heck while I hated the whole Endless 8 debacle, I like the guts that they actually made it.

Or maybe I'm just turning everything people are saying around and its kinda weird to say that they have guts to sticking to their guns but I guess that's how I interpret it.
Sure there are hipsters out there who tend to hate anything that's popular but watching the first episode is it really hard to believe that a lot of people find the first episode boring?
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Kyubey: It was not by my hand that I am once again given flesh. I was called here by humans who wish to pay me tribute.
Homura: Tribute? You steal girls' souls, and make them your slaves!
Kyubey: Perhaps the same could be said of all religions.
Homura: Your words are as empty as your soul! Lolis ill-needs a savior such as you!
Kyubey: What is a loli? A miserable little pile of moe! But enough talk...have at you!
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Old 2012-04-25, 03:15   Link #669
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuroi Sabato View Post
Sure there are hipsters out there who tend to hate anything that's popular but watching the first episode is it really hard to believe that a lot of people find the first episode boring?
I believe he was only highlighting the posts that were overly-vitriolic. Civil criticism is fine and all, since all of us would have to be brainwashed druggies to agree on everything, but to spew bile to express one's disappointment? Not very constructive.

The way some people described their first impression of the first episode, you will think KyoAni went over to their house and grated their pet on a cheese grater while they watched, tied to a piece of furniture.

Cheers.
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Old 2012-04-25, 03:26   Link #670
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
I find this rhetoric amusing because people like me accuse them of exactly the opposite, that they have no guts and only do what they're comfortable with (E8 debacle aside, I mean they were out of their minds to do that...).

Regardless, KyoAni has built a reputation that has earned them a certain level of expectation, so with that comes more scrutiny. If this were just another studio, many of us would have shrugged it off and probably dropped it. You could say their ability to perform is what may keep many people around rather than the actual merits of the work, which for me are nonexistent.
Sure, further scrutiny's always productive if done correctly. I do generally agree with the reviews of yours that I've read, so I'm actually curious to see what the takes are as the show evolves.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuroi Sabato View Post
Sure there are hipsters out there who tend to hate anything that's popular but watching the first episode is it really hard to believe that a lot of people find the first episode boring?
Not exactly, but I myself am a little surprised. From my perspective, I actually got into it and was doing my thing of getting invested into the "mystery", no matter how small it was. The awesome visuals were just the icing on the cake, and I was convinced that the "boring" characters will have plenty of time to evolve. Baccano, Durarara, Lucky Star, Minami-ke and (let's face it, even Monogatari series) are just a few of the examples were many characters start off with almost nothing to go on with. They talk, and they talk. You know the VAs, but the characters aren't established. It's after a number of episodes that the story melds with what the characters say and how they act, and that's when they'll cease to be "boring". I say don't worry, there ain't no way they're staying here.

So basically, I can definitely respect how many people think the first episode might have been boring, but I'm thinking nobody should speculate what the overall series is going to feel like. That's rule number 1 in the book of no-nos in reviewing and fair judgment.
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Old 2012-04-25, 03:31   Link #671
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So let me get this straight people are disappointed by this, because it is has no relation to Key nor is it based on a LN and non of the characters reassemble blobs.
I always associated KyoAni, at least lately, with diversity. I find it really sad that a series get bashed to death because "fans" insist that a studio should make the same old stuff over and over again.
Having said that I don't see anything wrong with the first episode of Hyou-Ka, you have nice visuals, good backing tracks and a likeable cast. The only thing that is weak was probably the story, but we, or at least I have, seen one episode.
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Old 2012-04-25, 04:10   Link #672
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Old 2012-04-25, 05:47   Link #673
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ahelo View Post
People are just harsh about this show because its KyoAni and its popular. People tend to be more analytic and skeptic because they don't wanna sound stupid and go along with the hype this show has. Or maybe they're just sour that they're not doing KEY anymore.

Kyoani will never get a break. People always tell Kyoani to be more ambitious but I actually like the guts of Kyoani to do what they like to do. In a way they're very masturbatory. After K-ON and CLANNAD, they've been doing relatively obscure shows (that unfortunately has the same genre as what they've always been doing) like Nichijou and this. Heck while I hated the whole Endless 8 debacle, I like the guts that they actually made it.

Or maybe I'm just turning everything people are saying around and its kinda weird to say that they have guts to sticking to their guns but I guess that's how I interpret it.
Now that's a first. Kyoani getting really harsh criticism and not getting a break? Well, they are popular and thus it would be unavoidable but it's hardly unique to them. Every time JC Staff and Deen (the later is somewhat deserved), people are ready to shit on them. Or how about Sunrise? People always shit on them whenever possible. Gundam Age got shit on immediately as it aired, and just as recently, Accel World had its discussion being bogged down by the main character being a deformed fatty. And let's not forgot Horizon whatever.

It's funny, because I coined the term "Kyoani Exceptionalism", which means to me Kyoani gets praised for mundane things that other studios are expected to do. At the very least, there's always a ton of praise tossed at the studio regardless of show as a minimum. So don't blame me if I don't feel sorry for all that mean criticism. Then again, much like Shaft, they make too much to care so i wouldn't worry about their feelings. And funny you said masturbatory, as I thought of Shaft too. Personally, when I feel either is doing it, I just roll my eyes.

And what else do I feel personally? Well, two years ago they were hot shit and your words would have made sense to me. These days I just can't feel the hype any more. I didn't even have this in my watching list til someone who will remain unnamed told me it was airing and to watch it. (though I will hint their name has a "K" in it)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skane View Post
Endless Eight feedback is going to haunt them till the end of the world, isn't it?

ADD] I always found it interesting how one can relate the fan-rage from Endless Eight with what happens in Endless Eight. We experienced it only eight times, over a course of eight weeks, and it damn near made a lot of folks froth at the mouth and sacrifice babies. It really enhances the sympathetic plight of Yuki in that arc.

Heh.
Well, it is only 8 times, but given how little content there was: 8 / 14 = 0.57 (over half) becomes a significant factor. So relatively speaking there was little content, and even as a whole 8/28+ 1 movie really makes me feel I can't blame fans for not liking it. Actually it just shows you how sparse Haruhi is, over the course of what? like 6 years? Perhaps "The Cockblock of Haruhi Suzumiya" summarizes Kyoani's handling of it the most.

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Originally Posted by Kuroi Sabato View Post
I've looked up on a lot of blogs reviewing this show and I'd have to have say that there's more positive response than negative ones.

Furthermore hate is such a strong word. Finding the episode boring(because it really is) does not equate to hate.
Yea, but that causes its own set of problems. Feeling nothing about something causes it to be forgotten about. It may actually be the worst, a sort of limbo that causes apathy. I mean, parts of Hana Saku Iroha and Umineko were stupid and sometimes even downright insulting but I'd always tune in every week to laugh at whatever silly thing they came up with which made the whole experience quite enjoyable.
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Old 2012-04-25, 06:45   Link #674
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It feels like watching these two guys:


Same voice actors, for those, who dont know.

The art looks stunning. Awsome well done first episode. Already cant wait for the next one!
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Old 2012-04-25, 07:36   Link #675
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Originally Posted by winhlp32 View Post
The first mystery in a picture:

why does Eru looks like a certain male genitalia in this picture?
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Old 2012-04-25, 08:13   Link #676
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(reads thread) ..... o.O

Ah well, I found the first episode interesting enough to merit more watching. I have 3-5 episode probation on any series no matter who produces it. I haven't even decided what I'd tag the series as yet.
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Old 2012-04-25, 08:34   Link #677
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If this were just another studio, many of us would have shrugged it off and probably dropped it.
No, if it was another studio people would be championing them as someone who has finally beat KyoAni's level of animation, even though it's utterly ridiculous to claim so from a singular example. You earn that top spot from multiple efforts, not from one off flukes.

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Originally Posted by Archon_Wing View Post
It's funny, because I coined the term "Kyoani Exceptionalism", which means to me Kyoani gets praised for mundane things that other studios are expected to do.
The things I see KyoAni praised for the most from reasonable people is their level of animation as well as faithfulness to their source materials. Absolute rubbish that these are mundane things that other studios are expected to do. Not one animation studio has come close to the level of top and consistent animation Kyoto Animation has outputted in the last 7 or so years. Who else has adapted multiple properties with the level of care that KyoAni does? What are these mundane things you mention?
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Old 2012-04-25, 08:37   Link #678
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(reads thread) ..... o.O

Ah well, I found the first episode interesting enough to merit more watching. I have 3-5 episode probation on any series no matter who produces it. I haven't even decided what I'd tag the series as yet.

It intrigues me enough to give it more episodes before deciding. I keep saying that it is just too bad that Hyouka had bad timing, the competition is much much stronger than six years ago.

I mean, if I can name one series I decided to drop after the first episode, it is Upotte. Because I can't find myself to care about the characters, the premise and its "humor". Whereas the other series by Xebec was full of energy, a good character cast and tickles my nerd nerve. At least I am caring for the characters in Hyouka.

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Originally Posted by papermario13689 View Post

So basically, I can definitely respect how many people think the first episode might have been boring, but I'm thinking nobody should speculate what the overall series is going to feel like. That's rule number 1 in the book of no-nos in reviewing and fair judgment.


That's funny because that is EXACTLY what a certain reviewer in anidb IS DOING, especially for ongoing series like Fate Zero and Jormungand. Woah, just when I think that guy couldn't be more fail.
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Old 2012-04-25, 08:54   Link #679
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Originally Posted by Sides View Post
So let me get this straight people are disappointed by this, because it is has no relation to Key nor is it based on a LN and non of the characters reassemble blobs.
I always associated KyoAni, at least lately, with diversity. I find it really sad that a series get bashed to death because "fans" insist that a studio should make the same old stuff over and over again.
Having said that I don't see anything wrong with the first episode of Hyou-Ka, you have nice visuals, good backing tracks and a likeable cast. The only thing that is weak was probably the story, but we, or at least I have, seen one episode.
I kind of fail to see how this series is getting "bashed to death" in this thread so much as people are evaluating it based on more than just the animation and the rather infamous reputation of the studio involved in it. The way I see it a lot of people have had plenty good to say about it's animation quality, it's just simply failed to hook a lot of people at the same time. On the other hand plenty of people are into both so I just plain don't see the extreme bashing that's going on.

Getting bashed to death is more akin to something like early Gundam AGE. The reaction to Hyou-Ka isn't even the same league as that show in terms of sheer scrutiny it got where people were all but losing their minds over the character designs and the slow build that's typical of Gundam series but that people always seem to forget about each time one is starting up. Trust me when I say Kyoani shows and their respective threads have it extremely easy compared to many others when it comes to how scrutinizing and generally ragey the posters are. As far as I've ever been able to tell the people that typically follow all Kyoani shows are extremely forgiving and just need a reason to be interested...some honestly not even. Hell it just being Kyoani is often enough for many people to give a show a pass that I've seen in the past and that's something I can only dream of as a fan of something like Gundam to use the example again. A nice clean thread where discussion is direct and to the point and people aren't always nitpicking ever single incidental and attempting to make it the focal point of discussion so that they can feed their own egos.

So yeah really cannot agree with this at all. Honestly I still think Kyoani shows have historically had the least critical threads amongst all threads on this and many forums and that's possibly why many are so surprised that's it's finally been starting to happen here as their reputation has come more down to Earth and people have started taking a more direct approach to evaluating them that actually involves real criticisms, expectations and standards. As a fan of many a show that's been bashed into the ground I'm used to it and can say this is nothing, but I can see why others are kind of shocked. Anyway I've gone on far too long, it's just something to think about.....

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Sure, further scrutiny's always productive if done correctly. I do generally agree with the reviews of yours that I've read, so I'm actually curious to see what the takes are as the show evolves.
What in your opinion is criticism done correctly? For me it would be something like not simply hunting for issues or flaws in a story or making ones out of trivial matters, but simply becoming aware of them as you watch a show and having them affect your experience and enjoyment to the point where it bears mentioning. Essentially if it's a really obvious flaw or issue that is noticeable to just about anyone I would think it's fair to call it out in a general manner in a thread, however something like taking a personal issue with say a particular frame of animation, or the fact that a character looks younger than they should or some such trivial matter and going on and on about it and foisting blame on the studios would be IMO trivial criticism.

Most of the talk about this show has been that the animation is great but that it lacks a hook. I don't know about others but from where I'm sitting I think this is a perfectly fair evaluation of the show that doesn't go overboard, doesn't involve sensationalism and isn't someone just trying to stoke their own ego, but rather to express an opinion.

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Old 2012-04-25, 09:08   Link #680
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Well how I see it, at worst it's boring and average. But it was in no means bad. Visuals were nice, main girl was pretty great, though the mysteries well were very lacklustre. But this seems to be a very polarizing series. Haters seem to be overhating and fans seem to be overrating (really guys, revolutionary visuals in an era where EVERYTHING looks fantastic these days?).

I actually don't know what to think of it yet, but I'm probably more on the bored side, considering in terms of mystery I just watched Another last season (yes yes I know it trainwrecked in the last 2 eps, but the buildup was rather good) so this seemed like Scooby Doo/kiddy level in terms of mysteries, and on the slice of life department, Sakamichi no Apollon and Space Brothers just creams this pretty badly. But the characters are pleasant enough as they aren't moeblob (thankgod) so it'll come down to that for me.

I guess Kyoani is just REALLY good at making medicority watchable, though I wonder how they would do if they had the license to do a really good sci-fi or action series. I don't see it happening of course given how they pretty much play super safe and go for sale guarantees. That and the whole Kadokawa politic bullcrap which I still don't understand, though I do think it's pathetic how Kyoani can't even negotiate properly with them considering how much money Kyoani made for them.

On another note, that OP seemed misleading and inappropriate (as were the classical music pieces). It makes it look like if it's some coming of age teen drama series, which I surely did not a vibe of from this episode. Man do I wish they replaced the Hanasaku Iroha OP last year with this, it would have been so much more appropriate... and also less ear-griniding. Lol emonano-ripe. Nonetheless, really liked the song even though it didn't feel appropriate. Heard that the artist also did the Kamisama memo-chou and Mashiro-iro symphony OPs too which were pretty good too.
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