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Old 2012-04-21, 20:04   Link #181
Triple_R
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frubam View Post
Unrequited love. It really kills me when 'person C'(usually a long time or childhood friend) likes 'main char A', but A doesn't even look at C in that way whatsoever. Then 'opposite gender char B' comes in out of nowhere, and A immediately falls smitten with B, even though, from the story's perspective, C is just as pretty as B. I'm not looking for A to ultimately date/go out/etc with C, just show that C is pretty and someone who A can fall for, even if A likes B more. Perfect example is AnoHana. From the outset, we know Jinta loved/loves Menma, but there are still moments when Jinta is attracted to Anaru(not just physically either).
Well, in fairness, Menma didn't come of nowhere, as she was a childhood friend of Jinta's as well.


But still, I totally agree with you on the cliche itself. It really is overly used (I can think of 3 or 4 very recent/currently airing anime that it applies to, and that's off the top of my head). Just once, I'd like to see it subverted, and I'd give out bonus points if it's subverted with 'Opposite Gender Char B' being a 'magical girlfriend' type (i.e. an alien, an android, an actual magical girl, etc...).
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Old 2012-04-21, 20:25   Link #182
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Unrequited love? That's a cliche that happens too much in real life.

On that one... Deal with it.

===

And I'm sure this has been mentioned before on this same subject. How about idiots who can't tell if person A likes him/her?

I can sorely relate to this, as it had occurred so many times in my own life, by which I had denied myself many opportunities at romance, just because I was either dense, arrogant, and/or stupid.

It's easier to criticize others and fictional characters on this. To criticize oneself on the same matter - it is painfully more difficult. And it sucks when one is aware of it.

Eh... such is the way of drama. Things are entertaining that way - boring otherwise.
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Old 2012-04-21, 20:35   Link #183
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frubam View Post
Unrequited love. It really kills me when 'person C'(usually a long time or childhood friend) likes 'main char A', but A doesn't even look at C in that way whatsoever. Then 'opposite gender char B' comes in out of nowhere, and A immediately falls smitten with B, even though, from the story's perspective, C is just as pretty as B.
Isn't this more realistic though? How many people out there choose to marry a girl they've known for 18+ years over someone they've known for one or two years?

I think people are just weirded out by their childhood friends being in love with them suddenly. In my opinion, that'd be like being confessed to by your brother.
Please just give me a series where the childhood friend ISN'T interested in the main character and remains a supportive friend!
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Old 2012-04-21, 20:56   Link #184
Yuna Amakura
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I think only I have a problem with this but anyway:

Overcome everything

No, I'm not saying this in a shounen way. But rather, my point is when someone dies, almost every single character I know (or most probably 80-90% of them) has a major breakdown when someone dear to them dies but in the next second/episode/whatever, they decide they can't be sad forever and magically overcome their sadness. Ok, we do have to move on with our lives. But it's not that easy, nor does it happen this time with most people. So why most characters just move on like nothing happened at all?

Edit:

It seems my post wasn't clear lol "I blame it on time constraints" was related to "I blame this cliché on the time constrainsts of the series itself". Dude, getting bad reputation because of something as simple as this...

Last edited by Yuna Amakura; 2012-04-22 at 19:15.
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Old 2012-04-21, 20:56   Link #185
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyuu View Post
Unrequited love? That's a cliche that happens too much in real life.
It's not Unrequited Love alone that frubram is critiquing. For example, in Aquarion EVOL, there's a character suffering from Unrequited Love, but at least in that case it's not about a childhood friend character for a change. This alone makes it easier to take for me.


Some cliches and tropes are simply used too much, period, end of story. Whatever rationale is behind it, it's seen so often that it becomes tiresome to some of us. And the cliche that furbam mentioned is one I see an awful lot, and it's genuinely become tiresome to me.

The main reason for this is that it's caused many romantic conflicts to become way too predictable, totally draining drama and suspense out of situations where it might otherwise be there in pleasing amounts. What fun is a love triangle when you're 99.9% certain of who's going to "win" it after just the first two or three episodes? Love triangles are much, much more fun when there's some real doubt as to who will emerge victorious in them.

It would be great to see this anime cliche subverted for a change simply for the sheer surprise factor, honestly.
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Old 2012-04-21, 21:04   Link #186
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flawnalyst View Post
I like that cliche as long as it's handled maturely. When it's not...hoo boy.
That's the thing. To me, it generally can't be considered being 'handled maturely' if the main char is completely oblivious. Obvious signs are obvious after all, and at some point, the main should get a clue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
Well, in fairness, Menma didn't come of nowhere, as she was a childhood friend of Jinta's as well.


But still, I totally agree with you on the cliche itself. It really is overly used (I can think of 3 or 4 very recent/currently airing anime that it applies to, and that's off the top of my head). Just once, I'd like to see it subverted, and I'd give out bonus points if it's subverted with 'Opposite Gender Char B' being a 'magical girlfriend' type (i.e. an alien, an android, an actual magical girl, etc...).
Ah yeah, that's true. Guess I was thinking about it from the perspective of her literally appearing 'out of nowhere' years later.

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Originally Posted by Chiibi View Post
Isn't this more realistic though? How many people out there choose to marry a girl they've known for 18+ years over someone they've known for one or two years?
Honestly, I can't say it's "realistic". Sure, I agree that it is more common for that to happen, but it is not anymore realistic for the opposite to happen as well. Personally, I think that the very nature of the scenario I mentioned is rather backwards. Your companion should be your best friend, or one of your best friends, rather that someone who doesn't know you as well. Logically, I say that a relationship that is so obscure as to whether you are lovers or just friends(assuming no one tries to define their relationship) is the one that would have the most weight. Toradora's Taiga and Ryuuji are a good example.
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Old 2012-04-21, 22:06   Link #187
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frubam View Post
Your companion should be your best friend, or one of your best friends, rather that someone who doesn't know you as well.
No....have you ever actually tried this? I just starting dating a friend who I've known for at least six years. It's awkward as hell and I feel uncomfortable with physical contact between us. And my mother and father dated for two years after first meeting, then they got married. It's been 30 years since then and they're still happily married.
My two best friends and my cousin are all happily married to men they dated without becoming best friends with them first.

So I can't agree with that statement.

Quote:
What fun is a love triangle when you're 99.9% certain of who's going to "win" it after just the first two or three episodes?
Well, a lot of the time, I just don't give a damn about the "third wheel" so love triangles are normally just annoying to me.... I don't mind predictable pairings in the least bit. I have a lot of fun seeing the two characters get there.
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Old 2012-04-22, 04:06   Link #188
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It is also noted that most anime love triangles (counting the manga versions) nowadays aren't done so well, but there's some exceptions to this rule. If they make matters worse with a main male character who can't choose between two girls in the whole 12-episodes anime and ends up with no one, then fans aren't going to be happy.
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Old 2012-04-22, 05:22   Link #189
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What i hate

those irritating lines some anime characters say after a sentence

Offenders: Persona 4 that damn bear with his KUMA every fricking line

ARGG so annoying
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Old 2012-04-22, 05:31   Link #190
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Originally Posted by Hoaviet View Post
What i hate

those irritating lines some anime characters say after a sentence

Offenders: Persona 4 that damn bear with his KUMA every fricking line

ARGG so annoying
What make matters worse is when Naruto usually says "-ttebayo" (sometimes "dattebayo") after a sentence, not to mention with old-fashioned samurais saying "de gozaru" after a sentence too.
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Old 2012-04-22, 06:30   Link #191
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chiibi View Post
No....have you ever actually tried this? I just starting dating a friend who I've known for at least six years. It's awkward as hell and I feel uncomfortable with physical contact between us.
I respect that this is your experience, but not everybody shares it. I personally know plenty of couples that knew each other for several years as kids/teenagers before they ended up as happily married couples in real life.

This isn't as strange as you're making it out to be. In fact, for some people, it's a positive. Why do you think cousin marriages are actually not that uncommon in some parts in the world? Why do you think the incest trope is so prevalent in anime? A lot of people find the idea of entering into a romance with people they already know, and know well, comforting.


Quote:
Well, a lot of the time, I just don't give a damn about the "third wheel" so love triangles are normally just annoying to me....
I'm fine with a straight-up romance too, which is why I find Mysterious Girlfriend X refreshing right now.

But my view is that if a love triangle is going to play a significant role in a story, it ought to have an element of unpredictability to it. Otherwise, what's the point? Why throw up an easy obstacle to a main pairing, an obstacle that nobody thinks has a real chance of stopping the main pairing from succeeding? It's no different, in my mind, than having easy/weak antagonist that get beat with hardly a challenge.


I'd like to recommend an anime to you, Chiibi. True Tears. If you watch that anime, I'd like to know your take on its love triangle after you finish it.
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Old 2012-04-22, 13:00   Link #192
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
I respect that this is your experience, but not everybody shares it. I personally know plenty of couples that knew each other for several years as kids/teenagers before they ended up as happily married couples in real life.
Yes, but did they always have feelings for each other? Did they date as kids or were they just friends first? Because if they dated as young teens and got married later, I could easily believe that.

It's the whole "I've-been-playing-with-you-since-we-were-three-and-you-made-a-promise-to-marry-me-and-it's-thirteen-years-later-now-and-I-expect-you-to-keep-it" thing that makes me go "WTF when does that happen in real life EVER?"

Quote:
Why do you think the incest trope is so prevalent in anime?
Because......some people in Japan have really really bad taste?


Quote:
I'd like to recommend an anime to you, Chiibi. True Tears. If you watch that anime, I'd like to know your take on its love triangle after you finish it.
Liddo-kun's been trying to get me to watch that too. But I hate how plain the character designs are after seeing images from the really cute game.
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Old 2012-04-22, 13:25   Link #193
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Liddo-kun's been trying to get me to watch that too. But I hate how plain the character designs are after seeing images from the really cute game.
The character design is completely different from the game. Don't confuse the anime with the game, they are completely different despite sharing the name.
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Old 2012-04-25, 15:26   Link #194
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Old 2012-04-25, 16:31   Link #195
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I'm going to say right now it's the overly bitchy yet also overly competent female lead that has teh best grades, is teh best at sports, and is teh hawtest, richest most popular girl in school/academy/group or whatever; who the male lead is either infatuated with or outright revolted by to start, but when they meet she cows said hapless male lead into following her around doing weird stuff and is essentially just put on display to do nothing other than humiliate him and show how "amazing" she is until he "come to accept it and love her" in this weird sort of Stockholm-Syndrome like way. Talk about unhealthy relationships to have.

NisiOisin is like the champ at this hands down, the Haruhi series probably got the ball rolling, but now it's kind of played out and I see it in a lot of other stuff too and I've just grown tired of it. It's quite a relief to see a lot of shows this season with competent but not socio-pathic harem queen like female leads.
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Old 2012-04-25, 16:59   Link #196
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Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama View Post
I'm going to say right now it's the overly bitchy yet also overly competent female lead that has teh best grades, is teh best at sports, and is teh hawtest, richest most popular girl in school/academy/group or whatever; who the male lead is either infatuated with or outright revolted by to start, but when they meet she cows said hapless male lead into following her around doing weird stuff and is essentially just put on display to do nothing other than humiliate him and show how "amazing" she is until he "come to accept it and love her" in this weird sort of Stockholm-Syndrome like way. Talk about unhealthy relationships to have.

NisiOisin is like the champ at this hands down, the Haruhi series probably got the ball rolling, but now it's kind of played out and I see it in a lot of other stuff too and I've just grown tired of it. It's quite a relief to see a lot of shows this season with competent but not socio-pathic harem queen like female leads.
Sounds like you had a life-scarring incident with a girl sometimes before
I know, girls can be scary yeah?
Let me ask you though, do you not like the "being super perfect and drags around willing underlings" part or the "female" part?
You might want to watch Maid-Sama! because the female protagonist got this trope reversed right on to her with the male protag. You could use that show to extract revenge to this trope you hate.
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Old 2012-04-25, 17:49   Link #197
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Old 2012-04-25, 18:31   Link #198
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I'd like to recommend an anime to you, Chiibi. True Tears. If you watch that anime, I'd like to know your take on its love triangle after you finish it.
I'm not Chiibi, but almost anything she said could have very well come from me. (A notable exception is that I've no experience dating a good friend whatsoever.)

I've watched True Tears, and it's one of my favourite romance anime out there. The childhood-friend angle is played pretty traditionally (including the sandle-fix; if your femal childhood friend falls in love with you - requitted or unrequitted - you probably fixed a sandal for her at some point), but it works beautifully because (a) it's very in character for both childhoodfriends, (b) there are reasons other than utter shyness why they didn't talk, and (c) the respective decisions are very intricately mirrored in other decisions the characters make. At no point is the outcome obvious, but in retrospect you'll get the tematic connections. And - most importantly - the show places no value judgement on whether or not the decision was the right one.

Quote:
But my view is that if a love triangle is going to play a significant role in a story, it ought to have an element of unpredictability to it. Otherwise, what's the point? Why throw up an easy obstacle to a main pairing, an obstacle that nobody thinks has a real chance of stopping the main pairing from succeeding? It's no different, in my mind, than having easy/weak antagonist that get beat with hardly a challenge.
I see your True Tears and raise you a Kimi ni Todoke.

Seriously, it depends on what you're doing with the element in question. A cliché is a cliché only if it raises the predictable feelings. About Kimi ni Todoke, it's debatable if that even counts as a triangle (since it's obvious that the male main has no romantic interest in rival girl). The point of said triangle (should it even count) is entirely Sawako's character development.
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Old 2012-04-25, 18:42   Link #199
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erneiz_hyde View Post
Sounds like you had a life-scarring incident with a girl sometimes before
I know, girls can be scary yeah?
Let me ask you though, do you not like the "being super perfect and drags around willing underlings" part or the "female" part?
You might want to watch Maid-Sama! because the female protagonist got this trope reversed right on to her with the male protag. You could use that show to extract revenge to this trope you hate.
Nope, not really, just tired of the damn trope, it's a little insipid and worn out. Also I mostly don't like get why we're apparently supposed to celebrate that sort of behavior from a character. As for the female part...I'll let you know when I actually see it happen with a male character in order to compare it too.

I'm not out for any sort of reversal or revenge type thing (I'm aware there's an actual a fetish genre for this sort of thing called "Ryona"), I just don't see the need for gender relations to be portrayed in such an unhealthy manner unless there actually trying to make a point with it instead of playing it for laughs, which usually seems to be the case. I mean when I look at this sort of thing it's no small wonder there's a lot of social awkwardness between genders in Japan that's leading to declining birth rates in Japan.

That's really all there is too it.
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Old 2012-04-25, 18:55   Link #200
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Actually about the whole "perfect" bitchy female lead thing, I find myself more annoyed on how the characters react to them. It's the fact that stories always try to paint her in the right and everyone else is wrong for not bowing to her, sort of like a black hole that sucks up all interest and morality.

The ultimate problem is that I get the feeling that there's no reason to support such an obnoxious character despite the story's attempt to shill her along with the cast shilling her. It can be patronizing and insulting at times. Which makes it kinda funny, because in Medaka box, my problem is with the supporting cast though jury is out on that one.

A male equivalent (though extreme) is like 80s movie action asshole anti-heroes, most notably MD Geist.

For something that goes around the issue in a less obnoxious manner and mocks it really, there's Inu x Boku SS

In the end, you could use Kemono no Souja Erin for a respectable female lead.
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