AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Related Topics > General Anime

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2012-04-26, 08:35   Link #221
GreyZone
"Senior" "Member"
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by erneiz_hyde View Post
Why hasn't anyone came up and say "I hate men that hits women" or just simply "I hate people who hits people"? Seriously, is it the hitting or the gender roles that bothers people? Adding "for no reason" to it can make up a good enough reason to hate the act, but apparently there's also some who don't care if the one hitting had reasons or not.
Most of these clichés are originating from double standards... they are the reason, why the males never seem to hit back, or better said "forbidden to ever hit a girl, even if it's accidently", like a physical law, that makes sure of this.

The origin specificially for this case is the double standard that "women are weaker than men". Ironicly in most of these shows, the women are like 100x stronger than everyone of the male cast.
*cough* to-love-ru *cough*

But of course it mostly is "played for laughts". Yes... just that it does NOT seem funny to me in any way.
GreyZone is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-04-26, 08:50   Link #222
Flawfinder
Loves the Experience
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Earth...hopefully
I'm going to counter with this statement: I don't mind the slapstick itself. I've seen sitcoms, both animated and live-action, where I liked it. What I don't like is when the slapstick is not funny, and Japan doesn't seem to realize what made it funny in Ken Akamatsu's works.
__________________

My Awesome Anime Blog: Standing On My Neck
Flawfinder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-04-26, 09:05   Link #223
warita
Dai-Youkai
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Vienna
Quote:
Originally Posted by erneiz_hyde View Post
I can nitpick and say that you think oppressed women shouldn't strike back at their oppressors. Also, the wording could also subtly come off as "women have no right to hit men". You might not intend to, but it could come off the wrong way. Wording is important.
Actually, thats precisely how I meant it. If a guy cant hit a woman, then I dont see why she has the right to, just because she is physically weaker and he is being a douchebag.

There will always be people who deserve a good slap in the face, but a civilised person (please note the lack of gender) will not lower him/herself to that level. If a guy opresses a woman and even beats her, then there is a simple solution to it. The woman is free to leave him and not hit back.

Besides, this is totally missing the point, as most tsunderes dont beat the guys because he did something outrages. As a matter of fact, in the majority of the cases I completely fail to see why the poor guy gets beaten to a pulp in the first place.

Is that supposed to be funny? I can only speak for myself of course, but I would say: I dont think so....
warita is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-04-26, 09:18   Link #224
MisaoFan
Treasure-Seeking Explorer
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Paris, France
What makes more sense to the "tsundere girl hits idiotic guy for obvious reasons" scene is when it's played for dramatic moments (like tsundere girl violently slaps the douchebag when the latter says something stupid and retarded).
__________________
<img src=http://i.imgur.com/O5yUSnx.png border=0 alt= />I will protect you from the darkness and I change my destiny.
MyAnimeList
MisaoFan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-04-26, 09:26   Link #225
Triple_R
Center Attraction
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Newfoundland, Canada
Age: 33
Send a message via AIM to Triple_R
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawnstorm View Post
I'm not Chiibi, but almost anything she said could have very well come from me. (A notable exception is that I've no experience dating a good friend whatsoever.)

I've watched True Tears, and it's one of my favourite romance anime out there. The childhood-friend angle is played pretty traditionally (including the sandle-fix; if your femal childhood friend falls in love with you - requitted or unrequitted - you probably fixed a sandal for her at some point), but it works beautifully because (a) it's very in character for both childhoodfriends, (b) there are reasons other than utter shyness why they didn't talk, and (c) the respective decisions are very intricately mirrored in other decisions the characters make. At no point is the outcome obvious, but in retrospect you'll get the tematic connections. And - most importantly - the show places no value judgement on whether or not the decision was the right one.
Yes, I'd agree with all of that.


Quote:
I see your True Tears and raise you a Kimi ni Todoke.
I watched about 16/17 episodes of Kimi ni Todoke, IIRC. I initially liked it a lot... until its main romance just became way too slow and drawn out to me. In fairness, this was simply my own issue with KnT's pacing, not with its predictability or lack thereof.


Quote:
Originally Posted by erneiz_hyde View Post
Afaik girls in real life (particularly of the now) does have a reputation for being wishy washy and not straight about how they truly feels. It's really not that rare for a girl to act all sullen and cold to a male they actually love. One could even argue it's the "standard" personality of most girls. Of course, them being Real Girls, their personalities can't be simplified just like that.
This is why I usually don't have an issue with Type B Tsunderes (i.e. ones who express their irritation through words, not through slapstick comedy violence). Type A Tsunderes are much more hit-and-miss with me (pun intended ).


Quote:
Why hasn't anyone came up and say "I hate men that hits women" or just simply "I hate people who hits people"?
Um, because those aren't anime cliches? This thread is about criticizing disliked or hated anime cliches. Female Type A Tsunderes hitting guys is a very well-known anime cliche.


Quote:
Seriously, is it the hitting or the gender roles that bothers people? Adding "for no reason" to it can make up a good enough reason to hate the act, but apparently there's also some who don't care if the one hitting had reasons or not.
Well, what I think is important to state here is that Type A tsunderes beating up a guy is usually (though not always) a case of slapstick comedy. IOW, I don't think it's meant to be taken all that seriously. But as with any joke, not everybody finds it funny.
__________________
Triple_R is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-04-26, 09:52   Link #226
Tempester
AS's "Love Live!" Fanatic
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Listening to "Dancing stars on me!" on repeat
Age: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by erneiz_hyde View Post
Why hasn't anyone came up and say "I hate men that hits women" or just simply "I hate people who hits people"? Seriously, is it the hitting or the gender roles that bothers people? Adding "for no reason" to it can make up a good enough reason to hate the act, but apparently there's also some who don't care if the one hitting had reasons or not.
But that's what my position mostly is. If Mahiru was a guy and Souta was a girl and the situation was played exactly the same, I'd be just as full of rage as I am with how their genders actually are.

And yes, there are examples of unjustified violence from men against women in Japanese entertainment. I'm playing Muv-Luv Extra right now and I get ticked off most of the times Takeru hits Sumika, usually just for her saying silly things. Most of the time when she punches him into the sky, it's her revenge against his deliberate physical abuse, thus I don't mind it quite as much. It's a mutually abusive relationship, but Takeru is more often than not the aggressor.

@warita: I like your thinking. Have a cookie.
__________________
MyAnimeList
- - - - -
Visual novel list
- - - - -
Recently completed anime:
Sakura Trick
Love Live! School Idol Project 2nd Season
Selector Infected WIXOSS
Mikakunin de Shinkoukei
Nagi no Asukara
Puella Magi Madoka Magica The Movie Part III: Rebellion
Tempester is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-04-26, 09:52   Link #227
erneiz_hyde
Indifferent
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: InterWebs
Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
Um, because those aren't anime cliches? This thread is about criticizing disliked or hated anime cliches. Female Type A Tsunderes hitting guys is a very well-known anime cliche.

But as with any joke, not everybody finds it funny.
Ah right, sorry. This quite nicely sums it all up, yes. Thank you.
There goes me again assuming the worst of people.
__________________
erneiz_hyde is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-04-26, 10:33   Link #228
Ichuki
┌(^o^)┘モリ!┌(^o^)┘モリ!
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Niker117 View Post
Panty shot first meeting! Let's abolish all the cliche's!

Meeting with your girl while skipping class to go eat lunch at the rooftop!

Niker
Ugh I hate the panty shot first meeting cliche too and I also hate groping at the first meeting as well.
__________________
Ichuki is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-04-26, 10:45   Link #229
MisaoFan
Treasure-Seeking Explorer
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Paris, France
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ichuki View Post
Ugh I hate the panty shot first meeting cliche too and I also hate groping at the first meeting as well.
These clichés didn't really happen in real life, so I assume that these kinds of clichés are very irrealistic and discriminatory, especially when the male lead (who is a lolicon) does something sexual towards the unnamed girl at the first meeting.
__________________
<img src=http://i.imgur.com/O5yUSnx.png border=0 alt= />I will protect you from the darkness and I change my destiny.
MyAnimeList
MisaoFan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-04-26, 11:09   Link #230
Sheba
Cannot Unsee It
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Naval Base in the rectum of Pacific Ocean
Age: 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by warita View Post

Is that supposed to be funny? I can only speak for myself of course, but I would say: I dont think so....
Louise, Naru Narusagawa and Akan Tendo are the biggest culprits, if not the most iconic, in my book. The retribution, in Akane's case, is mostly disproportionate, espcially in the anime, where that trait of hers is milked out for all its (lack of, let's be honest here) worth. I hate that kind of female char. I prefer a witty snarky reply or an elaborate form of trolling over the kind of shit tsundere type A do any day.
Sheba is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-04-26, 11:24   Link #231
Flawfinder
Loves the Experience
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Earth...hopefully
I personally liked it when Naru did it because Keitaro was one of those characters that was funny to beat up because he was such a loser (it wasn't funny when Sara did it, but that's a different story).
__________________

My Awesome Anime Blog: Standing On My Neck
Flawfinder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-04-26, 11:49   Link #232
Eragon
eff off shiro.
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: In the warm embrace of ice.
Age: 21
I'm so etching to bash Kagome right now.........
The only tsundere that I could ever tolerate was Aria - 'cause she looked way too cute when she was angry
And no, I'm NOT a lolicon(just thought I should add that)
__________________
Signature courtesy of rikikai

Last edited by Eragon; 2012-04-26 at 12:08.
Eragon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-04-26, 15:13   Link #233
Archon_Wing
Hater
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Lion's Arch
Age: 30
Send a message via MSN to Archon_Wing
Quote:
Originally Posted by NK_500 View Post
In case your are arguing about Medaka, she actually had plenty of flaws like her superiority complex and of course animals hate her.
Yea, I wouldn't say Medaka is a bitch anyways, she just comes off as an overactor. Like I said before, she's not the problem with the series.

Though the whole animal being afraid of her isn't really a flaw; apparently the show dictates she's so awesome that animals orz in front of her aura or something. Really, the greatest problem with how her character is expressed and why people might think she's too perfect is that a lot of things about her seem to be written like Chuck Norris facts.
__________________
What appears to be a moment for the helper feels like an eternity to the helpee.
Avatar and Sig courtesy of TheEroKing
Guild Wars 2 SN: ArchonWing.9480 (Stormbluff Isle)
MyAnimeList || Reviews
Archon_Wing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-04-26, 20:47   Link #234
Chiibi
Lolli for loli :D
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: in a boring place you will not want to go to
Send a message via AIM to Chiibi Send a message via MSN to Chiibi
Quote:
Originally Posted by warita View Post

There will always be people who deserve a good slap in the face, but a civilised person (please note the lack of gender) will not lower him/herself to that level.
I take offense to that. I am a very civilized person and I had a co-worker (mind you, he was a teenaged boy) who announced that women were "worthless trash" and continued to bash women for several minutes until I couldn't take it anymore and slapped him right across the face.

I did not feel bad about it at all, nor did I regret it because he f*cking deserved it and nothing else would shut him up.


I did not hurt him. The only thing I hurt was his pride, probably because it was in front of everyone else who worked there.

And I also agree with all anime girls on this universal cliche/rule : a man who gropes you or looks up your clothes is instantly deserving of a slap as well.

Even if the man wasn't doing it on purpose, girls don't realize this right away and their automatic reaction is to slap (or punch or kick) to get the man to stop doing what he's doing as soon as possible. I would definitely react the same way if it happened to me!

I'm not defending this cliche. I'm not saying it's "not overused" because it certainly is and I'm tired of seeing it. But I am saying that the girl should not be criticized for being violent in this situation because it's a very realistic reaction.
__________________

Last edited by Chiibi; 2012-04-26 at 21:11.
Chiibi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-04-27, 12:42   Link #235
GreyZone
"Senior" "Member"
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
It's not really about the persons themselves doing what they do... what i dislike is that some authors intentionally force the "accidents" all the time into the story. It can be "played for laughts" maybe for the first 5 times, but if it happens 200 chapters long in exactly the same way, where the MC suddenly "trips" and "accidently" always grabs the boobs of some female near him, it just becomes boring and stupid... and at some point it even becomes annoying and can make someone drop the series once and for all.
GreyZone is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-04-27, 20:05   Link #236
Flawfinder
Loves the Experience
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Earth...hopefully
^ It also doesn't help that in a lot of anime I see those forced slapstick scenes in, the scenes look like they're edited horribly. I remember one anime where the hand was going right to the face, but then the next scene showed the hand going much lower.
__________________

My Awesome Anime Blog: Standing On My Neck
Flawfinder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-04-27, 20:13   Link #237
Sheba
Cannot Unsee It
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Naval Base in the rectum of Pacific Ocean
Age: 34
The thing about slapstick is that males are always on the receiving end. So when someone said "I am against violence excepted for slapstick purpose.", I rolled my eyes over that blatant double standard. This why Daily Lives Of Highschool Boys was so refreshing, it may have used this trope too, but it made sure that everyone get it.
Sheba is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-04-28, 16:08   Link #238
speedyexpress48
Boo, you whore
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Smokin that CO bong
Send a message via AIM to speedyexpress48 Send a message via MSN to speedyexpress48 Send a message via Yahoo to speedyexpress48 Send a message via Skype™ to speedyexpress48
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheba View Post
The thing about slapstick is that males are always on the receiving end. So when someone said "I am against violence excepted for slapstick purpose.", I rolled my eyes over that blatant double standard. This why Daily Lives Of Highschool Boys was so refreshing, it may have used this trope too, but it made sure that everyone get it.
Of course...you can't say this is exactly limited to anime. Most media has this trope in some form...
__________________

Your Friendly Bitcoin Trader
speedyexpress48 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-01-13, 01:00   Link #239
routan
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Anime Cliches

Hello! I have seen lots of anime and have noticed lots of cliches, the good and the bad, and what i wish was in anime.
at least for my self, i hate it when the pro and antagonist run at each other slice and stand there for about a minute then on of them fall down and die. I still love the dying with a smile. I really want to see more mangas that focus on the storyline a lot and several characters, not so much of just one or two.

I'd love to hear more opinions!
routan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-01-13, 01:05   Link #240
Write
Banned
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
I think they stop being cliché when it's been going on for several decades. These are just aspects of anime that suck.
Write is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
disscusion, manga cliche good bad

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:07.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.