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Old 2012-04-28, 08:17   Link #881
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Quote:
Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
Incidentally, I'm pretty sure this is just a rumour that got blown out of proportion. The novel writer was obviously consulted as always because they had to make the end of the anime line up with the novel even though the last novel wasn't released, so they had to make sure that the points they emphasized earlier in the anime would line up with the ending.
But JC Staff didn't care about ZnT or Shanna having the anime lining up with the novel! They never cared about any of that!

That's my point, it is industry standard for the anime studio to literally don't give a shit of what the novel is doing, and just make up stuff as they go along. The fact that they even CARED to have Author input in any form is actually out of character for JC Staff, and in fact it might be the one and only time they actually got the author in on the production process.

Every anime claim that they "consulted the author" concerning adaptations. They ALL say that. But very few adaptations actually care to use any of the author's input, or even really asked for any input. The Tora Dora author was involved in deciding how the story would go from start to finish, but you would be crazy to think this is at all normal. As I say, it is standard practice for studios to ignore the author entirely after the contract is signed. And JC Staff is the poster child of such a behaviour.

EDIT: It's similar to how comic book stories are treated by Hollywood; for the longest time, comic book movies are made with the intention of stripping out as much of its comic roots as possible. The idea being that comics can't sell as movies, so the less it remind people of comics the better. But then in the last few years Hollywood realised that live action comic books, with as much of the original spirit kept as possible can sell millions. That there is nothing wrong with trusting the source material. And that's why we have the Avengers movie.
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Old 2012-04-28, 17:44   Link #882
zeniselv
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you cant compare comics and live action wirth anime and manga, first of the reason they change comic adaptations is because since they have big budgets, they have to make the movie suitable to a wider audience, so things get change to achhieve that.

in anime is very diferent, animation can achieve to show surreal worlds easier than live action, and usually anime its done for the fans, and to increase awareness of the original work, so they usually try to keep it as faithful to the original as possible, if im not wrong tha reason Jc staff changed so much shana and Znt was because they got ahead of the original material, and wich was done to the second season of those series, also you have to note that angel beats, having the authors involved in the project, didnt make it better than kanon or clannad for may of us.
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Old 2012-04-28, 18:22   Link #883
hyl
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post

EDIT: It's similar to how comic book stories are treated by Hollywood; for the longest time, comic book movies are made with the intention of stripping out as much of its comic roots as possible. The idea being that comics can't sell as movies, so the less it remind people of comics the better. But then in the last few years Hollywood realised that live action comic books, with as much of the original spirit kept as possible can sell millions. That there is nothing wrong with trusting the source material. And that's why we have the Avengers movie.
There is one problem with trusting the source material when it comes to comics: they are also pretty inconsistent. Every once in a while when a comic get's a new editor or writer, the new one will interpretet that character in his own way and that's why some characters have changed slowly (or sometimes the changes were drastic by adding retcons) over the years, making the the source also quite unreliable in some way.
Also you to consider, what is the actual source? The batman (also some changes ) from the golden age is very different from the silver age or the all stars version. And let's not even forget last year's new 52 from DC., which was almost a complete reboot of all of DC comic book characters.
Let's not even start with the bigger story arcs that had multiple writeres. They ended up pretty inconsistent at certain points and details, mostly because it was done in a big rush or due to lack of commincation between the writers (like spiderman's clone wars saga and "the other" arc had some mistakes or plotholes because it had many writers writing different issues. )

Also your example of the avengers movie is quite wrong. The avengers movie never tried to follow it's original source, but it's an original story based on all the previous Marvel comic book movies from the past few years.
That's why it had many references to the Iron Man 2 (and maybe 1 as well), Thor and Captain America movies.

Last edited by hyl; 2012-04-28 at 18:40.
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Old 2012-04-28, 19:34   Link #884
TJR
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
But JC Staff didn't care about ZnT or Shanna having the anime lining up with the novel! They never cared about any of that!

That's my point, it is industry standard for the anime studio to literally don't give a shit of what the novel is doing, and just make up stuff as they go along. The fact that they even CARED to have Author input in any form is actually out of character for JC Staff, and in fact it might be the one and only time they actually got the author in on the production process.
For any adaptation project, the "original creator" is always consulted by the production committee. However, the extent of his or her involvement differs from show to show. Some authors are closely involved with the creative process; others leave it up to their publisher (they couldn't be bothered to deal with anime planning, so someone else represents them; sometimes the publisher makes that decision for them ). Some even instruct the planning team to make something different from the source, regardless of their degree of involvement.

As for J.C.STAFF shows, we know for a fact that original creators were involved with:
- all three seasons of Shana
- Zero no Tsukaima Final (the story and sequence of events were written by the author himself! He seems to have enjoyed creating the new scenes)
- Toradora! (rough outline for the last novel was provided)
- Index/Railgun (stories and characters for the second half of Railgun were outlined by the author; ditto for the upcoming movie)
- Bakuman (writers were told to expand on character relationships as a strategy to lure new readers)

Similar to Toradora, Honey and Clover and Nodame Cantabile finished in step with their manga counterparts, so there was obviously cooperation with mangaka.

If the studio were hell bent on cutting off authors, wouldn't it be absurd to make Toradora! an exception?

Quote:
But very few adaptations actually care to use any of the author's input, or even really asked for any input.
No generalization can really be made. Circumstances simply differ depending on creative staff, publisher, project timing, and even original author (i.e. anime producers aren't to blame if the creator chooses to not involve himself/herself or is otherwise inaccessible!). The relationship between anime producers and creator can sometimes be strained, but the opposite is also true.

Also, as viewers, there's no way we can tell what's happening behind the scenes. Many concluded that Mayoi Neko Overrun and Dance in the Vampire Bund were disrespectful perversions of the original works, but the respective teams were actually told to create the shows that way. On Overrun, the author worked closely with the team and requested new content that better fit the medium (in his opinion, faithful adaptation = inferior replication of original work in an inappropriate format), while on Vampire Bund, the author stayed out of the way and instructed the director to present a new story.


Edit: To elaborate more on consultation, author input on new material could be as simple as "Ooh! Interesting twist. Go for it!".

Some authors emphasize creative freedom (even on an adaptation assignment) for the director/scriptwriter. Others are deliberately secretive about where their own stories will go.

Last edited by relentlessflame; 2012-04-28 at 20:12. Reason: merged double post, added edit marker
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Old 2012-04-29, 15:50   Link #885
Arturia Polaris
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I was rewatching the PV, and a comment caught my eye.

Quote:
I'm gonna say it, even thou I really expect it to be a great anime: they can fuck up the entire storyline with this anime, but IF THEY FUCK UP RIN2 & REFRAIN, THEN I'M GONNA GET REALLY MAD. >=(
That is basically my attitude at the moment. I really couldn't care that much about the other girls, but if Rin2 and Refrain get destroyed, I'll personally take a plane to Japan.

Niker
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Old 2012-04-29, 19:29   Link #886
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Niker117 View Post
I was rewatching the PV, and a comment caught my eye.



That is basically my attitude at the moment. I really couldn't care that much about the other girls, but if Rin2 and Refrain get destroyed, I'll personally take a plane to Japan.

Niker
I'm sure that should be what everyone hope for the worst, unless there would be something like "Little Busters! never had an anime"

(For me, excluding Rin2,Refrain - wish them spare for Haruka,Mio route, those two are my favorite routes in this game)
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Old 2012-04-30, 02:36   Link #887
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Best case scenario: Little Busters becomes very good (not as good as the visual novel just like CLANNAD).
Good case scenario: it's a good anime
Bad: lol we should have let KyoAni done it
Worst: Little Busters anime never existed, let's find a new show.
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Old 2012-04-30, 12:27   Link #888
flack
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Originally Posted by bhl88 View Post
Best case scenario: Little Busters becomes very good (not as good as the visual novel just like CLANNAD).
So no adapted anime will ever be as good as it's visual novel?
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Old 2012-04-30, 12:30   Link #889
MisaoFan
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Originally Posted by flack View Post
So no adapted anime will ever be as good as it's visual novel?
No, he means that "à la Tsukihime style", in which the anime adaptation was so badly written that nobody should considered it made, especially its dedicated fans :
"Little Busters anime never existed, let's find a new show."
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Old 2012-04-30, 13:10   Link #890
Jao
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uh

Actually, I think that's what he means for worst case scenario and for best case scenario he simply means that, yes, no adaptation will ever be as good as the source material.

That's a matter of opinion though, and in mine Clannad VN > Clannad anime and Kanon VN < Kanon anime.
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Old 2012-04-30, 19:51   Link #891
Arturia Polaris
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So hey, can anyone get an estimate on how long it takes JC to release an anime after they announce it? Obviously, if their times are not erratic that is.

We are currently a month after the announcement, Do announcements take place a LONG time before the anime?

Niker
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Old 2012-04-30, 20:11   Link #892
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Niker117 View Post
So hey, can anyone get an estimate on how long it takes JC to release an anime after they announce it? Obviously, if their times are not erratic that is.

We are currently a month after the announcement, Do announcements take place a LONG time before the anime?

Niker
There's a lot of variables that are not present at the current time to give a good estimate. Some productions are announced a season or so before they are broadcast and some are announced a year or two previously.

It takes about a year or two for production to culminate in a broadcasted anime. Things like scripts/storyboards need to be written and approved, characters need to be designed, settings need to be designed, and so forth. At this point in Little Busters's timeframe, we don't know how far along production is. It's difficult to give a straight answer with the amount of information we have.

Sorry to not be able to give a good answer, but that's the best any of us can say. Personally, I feel it's a good chance we could see it in Fall, but that's myself speculating.
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Old 2012-05-01, 01:57   Link #893
matrixhazard
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For me, I doubt that it should be on October, or not more than around one year and we can see this anime.

I don't know whether someone already talked about this, but I still wonder how many episodes would be. 24 is for sure minimum to me (but it might wrapped up other heroines route excluding Rin and Refrain). 36 is satisfied (It might cover all important details in every original LB route. But it doesn't make sense if they split it into 24 eps and 12 eps, plus I don't want them to split into 3 seasons). 48 is the best, split into 2 seasons. (Since we might be able to witness 3 additional heroine routes).

At this moment, hope J.C. can satisfy us. If the anime is successful, then good for them and us. If not, then "Little Busters! anime never existed", hope for the remake or look forward to "Rewrite" anime (At least not production from J.C.) someday.

Last edited by matrixhazard; 2012-05-01 at 02:11.
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Old 2012-05-01, 02:07   Link #894
Arturia Polaris
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I was thinking about that and I think that JC can work with a 24 episode first season where they fit every girl ( except Saya, Kurugaya ) And the common route, and a 2nd season of 12 eps where they fit Refrain and those two girls.

Niker
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Old 2012-05-01, 02:12   Link #895
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Even from the other thread, you're still determined to leave Anego out.

"Haruchin shock! Dai shock desu!"

Ahem.
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Old 2012-05-01, 03:08   Link #896
zeniselv
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Niker117 View Post
I was thinking about that and I think that JC can work with a 24 episode first season where they fit every girl ( except Saya, Kurugaya ) And the common route, and a 2nd season of 12 eps where they fit Refrain and those two girls.

Niker
no no no, you really dont want jc to split it, JC has proven that they migth do a good~OK first season but they certainly cannot make a second season without screwing it one way or another.
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Old 2012-05-01, 03:15   Link #897
Arturia Polaris
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In any case. We know that the OP will be Little Busters! And the ED will be Alicemagic.

With that info we can safely assume its only a one season work.

Niker
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Old 2012-05-01, 03:15   Link #898
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zeniselv View Post
no no no, you really dont want jc to split it, JC has proven that they migth do a good~OK first season but they certainly cannot make a second season without screwing it one way or another.
Time for my catchphrase in this thread: the writer handling the adaptation has never worked on a JC Staff show before.

I'll also add she has experience with handling shows longer than 2 cour.
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Old 2012-05-01, 03:17   Link #899
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Well they have the benefit of not having to wait for more material even if they are forced to do a second season. The entire game is finished, packaged, and delivered for them now. Most of JCS' second season problems (from my understanding) has been running ahead of the material, or having material that doesn't end in a way one would normally end a season (something dramatic or a cliffhanger if a third season is a sure thing), so they have to wing it.

Here they have no reason to wing it. Not only is the product done, but someone else (KyoAni) has shown how one does a split up Key anime while maintaining the various routes into two seasons. They have a model to emulate at least for that. Pacing, route selection and ordering is entirely in their hands. If anything would mess them up, it will be in how to structure the various routes...not how to break up the seasons (if needed).
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Old 2012-05-01, 03:26   Link #900
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Originally Posted by Niker117 View Post
In any case. We know that the OP will be Little Busters! And the ED will be Alicemagic.

With that info we can safely assume its only a one season work.

Niker
Second OP's usually aren't announced before the start of the anime. J.C. also has a history with using several OP's and ED's for their 2 cour productions. Since the Little Busters anime was described as long it has to be at least 24 episodes. Therefore at least 2 OP's and 2 ED's are very likely.
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