AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Older Series > Retired > Aquarion Series

Notices

View Poll Results: Aquarion EVOL - Episode 18 Rating
Perfect 10 7 20.59%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 9 26.47%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 11 32.35%
7 out of 10 : Good 3 8.82%
6 out of 10 : Average 2 5.88%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 1 2.94%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 1 2.94%
Voters: 34. You may not vote on this poll

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old 2012-05-01, 20:56   Link #81
Vena
Carpe Diem
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: ||At the edge of finality.||
Age: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by wisteria233 View Post
Sitting down and talking to Amata won't make him suddenly feel anything for her, in Zessica's case she's in denial, the person who she likes doesn't like her back and she's changing her appearance and lying to herself and others saying that she's okay with just loving him, when really she's not okay at all. This is something that Zessica has to figure out herself. In fact in this episode someone did try to talk to her and it didn't help.

This is world of difference from Andy who if he did sit down and talk to Mix again, not unlike what Amata does with Mikono when she's pissed at him, or simply apologized to her properly and then said what he wanted to say, then there wouldn't be a problem. In other words his depression comes from him messing up. Thing is Amata usually snaps out of it before it goes to far.
I didn't mean to sit down and talk to get Amata to like her, the current problem she's facing needs talking with Amata (not just random people) because, as the episode made quite clear, she cannot figure it out herself and he is the center of it all. If she could sort this out, this was a waste of time that they just spent an episode tearing her apart to drag on drama, the fact that she's willing to throw away her life should make it obvious that she has no idea what to do anymore. A rejection is a rejection but, usually, relationships don't end on just the word and have a long discussion that follows; we've not had this and Zessica needs this. Friends and connections are the underlying themes of this show, closing yourself up is not the proper way to go about things (Andy and Zessica). Its not an overly hidden juxtaposition we have here:

-> Amata, Mikono, and MIX, were closed off people when the show started. They've since grown out of this, though Mikono has been relapsing because of "Kagura, I don't know!"
-> Andy and Zessica started this show as open and eager, so to speak, and they've since started clamping up little by little because of their new emotions.

I'll throw this out now. Amata has not *messed up*, and has never been in a situation like Andy. He's never done anything wrong to earn Mikono's ire, the man is a walking saint as far as this show has presented him. He's simply caught in awkward moments because of the drama aspect of this show and the personality they decided to hand to Mikono. Andy is not a saint, he's a horny teen and he made a genuine but unintentional mistake, and thinks that MIX hates him now. Andy is stuck and needs to talk, unfortunately, he needed something drastic to snap him out of his wallowing in self-pity. Zessica similarly needed something drastic and got it too.

None of them are identical, but I have a hard time overlapping Amata with Andy, or Mikono with MIX.
__________________
Transcend Eternity
Vena is offline  
Old 2012-05-01, 21:10   Link #82
mayumi
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
its kinda funny those cards probably mean nothing but they really do fit for zessica-mix-andy who were the diamond cards king-queen-jack.
jack loves the queen, queen protects the king.
mayumi is offline  
Old 2012-05-01, 23:51   Link #83
Triple_R
Ho Ho Honoka!
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Newfoundland, Canada
Age: 33
Send a message via AIM to Triple_R
The problem is that, back in Episode 17, Zessica cut Amata off before he could properly reply to her confession since she (likely correctly) thought that Amata was going to reject her. So partially because of that, there was no proper follow-up between the two over Zessica's confession to Amata. Amata never had a chance to let her down easily which might have been a painful but helpful watershed moment for Zessica.

Zessica figured that Amata was going to reject her, and thought she'd just skip that unpleasant moment entirely, but by skipping it she perhaps made it harder for her heart to move on.

So I see Vena's point here.


However, I don't think that Amata is entirely blameless here. Amata hasn't done anything wrong - he's never really put his foot in his mouth like Andy did, for example. But there's things that Amata's failing to do that he should be doing. I don't know if it's that Amata needs more spine, or if he just needs to learn the art of assertiveness, but his lack of decisive actions has certainly made things much more difficult for both Mikono and Zessica.
__________________
Triple_R is offline  
Old 2012-05-02, 00:15   Link #84
MasterVampire
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Amata should just hookup with Zessica.

Mikono must knows how he feels but she allways jumps to the wrong conclusion, runs off, wont listen to him and give him a chance to consider her own feelings.

She also knows that he rejected Zessica because he wants her but she still does nothing.
MasterVampire is offline  
Old 2012-05-02, 00:16   Link #85
wisteria233
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: New York, NY
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vena View Post
I didn't mean to sit down and talk to get Amata to like her, the current problem she's facing needs talking with Amata (not just random people) because, as the episode made quite clear, she cannot figure it out herself and he is the center of it all. If she could sort this out, this was a waste of time that they just spent an episode tearing her apart to drag on drama, the fact that she's willing to throw away her life should make it obvious that she has no idea what to do anymore. A rejection is a rejection but, usually, relationships don't end on just the word and have a long discussion that follows; we've not had this and Zessica needs this. Friends and connections are the underlying themes of this show, closing yourself up is not the proper way to go about things (Andy and Zessica). Its not an overly hidden juxtaposition we have here:
And what could Amata do? In fact, why should he do it at all? Amata may be the cause of her behavior but his not at fault for it. He is not obligated to that for Zessica, and even if he did, what would he say to her? Her not being able to figure out that she's trying to gain Amata's attention by changing herself, and failing, is not Amata's problem, its Zessica's problem. Heck, speaking as a female, that's the worse thing that you can do, because its either embarrassing or it makes the guy look like an egotistical prick.

I find it funny how people expect for Amata to go above and beyond for Zessica despite him not even holding her to a high enough regard to do that for her, and it also being incredibly unrealistic for him to try. Amata did his part when he rejected her, now Zessica needs to do her part and get over it. Amata doesn't need to say anything else to her on this matter, the subject is closed. He owes Zessica no further obligations.

Quote:
-> Amata, Mikono, and MIX, were closed off people when the show started. They've since grown out of this, though Mikono has been relapsing because of "Kagura, I don't know!"
-> Andy and Zessica started this show as open and eager, so to speak, and they've since started clamping up little by little because of their new emotions.
Except both Mikono and Mix just admitted that they have a hard time expressing how they feel in this episode, and that the problem stems from their Daddy issues.
Andy and Zessica are not much alike, when Andy realized that he liked Mix he chased after her, but after she turned him down he decided that he wouldn't case after such a cold woman. It was not until after he found out the reason for her behavior that he started to put a real effort into the chasing after her. In the previous episode Andy got upset not because he botched his confession and couldn't get his words across to Mix, who then got mad at him.
Zessica on the other hand was flirting around with Amata, but unlike Andy she didn't have her eye on him, she was just playing around at Amata's detriment, because it amused her. However, once she realized that she liked him she clammed up and kept her distance. She had to be goaded into confessing to Amata, and once she did she fell into denial.

Quote:
I'll throw this out now. Amata has not *messed up*, and has never been in a situation like Andy. He's never done anything wrong to earn Mikono's ire, the man is a walking saint as far as this show has presented him. He's simply caught in awkward moments because of the drama aspect of this show and the personality they decided to hand to Mikono. Andy is not a saint, he's a horny teen and he made a genuine but unintentional mistake, and thinks that MIX hates him now. Andy is stuck and needs to talk, unfortunately, he needed something drastic to snap him out of his wallowing in self-pity. Zessica similarly needed something drastic and got it too.

None of them are identical, but I have a hard time overlapping Amata with Andy, or Mikono with MIX.
Really? because episodes 3, and 7 beg to differ, I distinctly remember Amata trying apologize/ explain himself to Mikono over a misunderstanding. I find it interesting how people easily forget the events of previous episodes, and both times Amata got depressed disheartened by Mikono getting mad at him, not unlike Mix was towards Andy in episode 17.
wisteria233 is offline  
Old 2012-05-02, 00:40   Link #86
Vena
Carpe Diem
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: ||At the edge of finality.||
Age: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by wisteria233 View Post
And what could Amata do? In fact, why should he do it at all? Amata may be the cause of her behavior but his not at fault for it. He is not obligated to that for Zessica, and even if he did, what would he say to her? Her not being able to figure out that she's trying to gain Amata's attention by changing herself, and failing, is not Amata's problem, its Zessica's problem. Heck, speaking as a female, that's the worse thing that you can do, because its either embarrassing or it makes the guy look like an egotistical prick.

I find it funny how people expect for Amata to go above and beyond for Zessica despite him not even holding her to a high enough regard to do that for her, and it also being incredibly unrealistic for him to try. Amata did his part when he rejected her, now Zessica needs to do her part and get over it. Amata doesn't need to say anything else to her on this matter, the subject is closed. He owes Zessica no further obligations.
Check Triple_R's post.

Amata didn't do his part because, as Ep. 17 showed, he didn't actually get to finish his part. Zessica was about to run off, he was about to chase her to explain everything and offer a conclusion, but that didn't conclude. No one is expecting Amata to go above and beyond, what is expected is him to finish what he started and he has not done so. The rejection is literally a single word exchange right now with one party having tried to flee, the other to follow and see that everything would be sorted out. This is Amata we're talking about.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wisteria233 View Post
Except both Mikono and Mix just admitted that they have a hard time expressing how they feel in this episode, and that the problem stems from their Daddy issues.
Andy and Zessica are not much alike, when Andy realized that he liked Mix he chased after her, but after she turned him down he decided that he wouldn't case after such a cold woman. It was not until after he found out the reason for her behavior that he started to put a real effort into the chasing after her. In the previous episode Andy got upset not because he botched his confession and couldn't get his words across to Mix, who then got mad at him.
Zessica on the other hand was flirting around with Amata, but unlike Andy she didn't have her eye on him, she was just playing around at Amata's detriment, because it amused her. However, once she realized that she liked him she clammed up and kept her distance. She had to be goaded into confessing to Amata, and once she did she fell into denial.
They have a hard time expressing themselves because of pops is a far cry from where they were at the start of the show, which was unable to express themselves at all to others, hence my claimt hat they have changed for the better since the start of the show and where they were then.

When did Andy chase after MIX? I do not recall him actually pursuing her until he overheard about her problems and tried to be a good guy. And I don't recall even talking about any of these details, I mean I could just as easily question why you opt to forget that Zessica clammed up with good reason, she provided in Ep. 9 though the interviews did clarify the meaning. Not to mention you've completely disproportionated the time actually spent on Zessica's flirting for flirting sake (one episode). By Ep.7 when she's gone to him for "protection" from the ghost, some flags should have probably been thrown up that play and affection were already blending in her head/heart. They may as well have had Fudo quote Walter Anderson in Ep. 8:
Quote:
We're never so vulnerable than when we trust someone - but paradoxically, if we cannot trust, neither can we find love or joy.
She may not have had her *eye* on him consciously until Ep. 8/9 but to say that the flags weren't getting thrown up before that is a little... odd? Andy was not consciously chasing MIX since the start of the show either, he was chasing *the girl with a hole in her heart* which he didn't put a face on until half way through the show.

That said, the point was not that Andy and Zessica are carbon copies, but that in this episode (note the word this) their developments were parallels of one another; they were both sinking ever deeper into depression. There may or may not be other parallels between the characters but I don't want to take the conversation in that direction.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wisteria233 View Post
Really? because episodes 3, and 7 beg to differ, I distinctly remember Amata trying apologize/ explain himself to Mikono over a misunderstanding. I find it interesting how people easily forget the events of previous episodes, and both times Amata got depressed disheartened by Mikono getting mad at him, not unlike Mix was towards Andy in episode 17.
If you want to say that Amata was like MIX, sure, but wasn't the original comparison Amata - Andy, MIX - Mikono? I wasn't forgetting events until we suddenly started playing musical chairs with who we're supposedly saying is overlapped with whom.
__________________
Transcend Eternity
Vena is offline  
Old 2012-05-02, 01:58   Link #87
wisteria233
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: New York, NY
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vena View Post
Check Triple_R's post.

Amata didn't do his part because, as Ep. 17 showed, he didn't actually get to finish his part. Zessica was about to run off, he was about to chase her to explain everything and offer a conclusion, but that didn't conclude. No one is expecting Amata to go above and beyond, what is expected is him to finish what he started and he has not done so. The rejection is literally a single word exchange right now with one party having tried to flee, the other to follow and see that everything would be sorted out. This is Amata we're talking about.
I've read their post but it doesn't do anything to help your point and my point still stands Amata already rejected her. Is it his fault that she doesn't want to hear it? No, that's Zessica's fault, so Amata is no longer obligated tell Zessica anything because he already did, she may not have wanted to hear it but he did. Amata just doesn't have any obligation towards Zessica.


Quote:
They have a hard time expressing themselves because of pops is a far cry from where they were at the start of the show, which was unable to express themselves at all to others, hence my claimt hat they have changed for the better since the start of the show and where they were then.
Again both girls have outright stated that they have a hard time expressing how they truly feel, you really can't argue against outright statements made by the characters themselves.


Quote:
When did Andy chase after MIX? I do not recall him actually pursuing her until he overheard about her problems and tried to be a good guy. And I don't recall even talking about any of these details, I mean I could just as easily question why you opt to forget that Zessica clammed up with good reason, she provided in Ep. 9 though the interviews did clarify the meaning. Not to mention you've completely disproportionated the time actually spent on Zessica's flirting for flirting sake (one episode). By Ep.7 when she's gone to him for "protection" from the ghost, some flags should have probably been thrown up that play and affection were already blending in her head/heart. They may as well have had Fudo quote Walter Anderson in Ep. 8:
Wow your memory must be really bad then. He was attracted to her and did come onto her before he heard about her past, but Mix kicked him, which resulted in Andy losing his attraction.

Zessica clammed up because she realized that she liked Amata, after half heartedly flirting with him for three episodes. No further reason was given besides that. I'm only judging the Zessica who we've seen in the series so far, not the Zessica who had her behavior explained away by the creators. She played around with him for 3 episodes not 1, so I wouldn't say I'm being disproportionate at all. Again my point still stands she played around with Amata, before she really started liking him.

Quote:
She may not have had her *eye* on him consciously until Ep. 8/9 but to say that the flags weren't getting thrown up before that is a little... odd? Andy was not consciously chasing MIX since the start of the show either, he was chasing *the girl with a hole in her heart* which he didn't put a face on until half way through the show.
She didn't have her eye on the guy at all, she was playing around with him because she found it amusing, that he flew off whenever he became aroused. That's why I can't compare her to Andy who was always attracted to Mix.

Quote:
That said, the point was not that Andy and Zessica are carbon copies, but that in this episode (note the word this) their developments were parallels of one another; they were both sinking ever deeper into depression. There may or may not be other parallels between the characters but I don't want to take the conversation in that direction.
More like you're looking for similarities where they aren't any, your case of their development being parallel is also very weak as well, as yes, even though both are sinking into depression the cause and their expressing of that depression is as different as night and day. Also they don't need the same things, in order to snap them out of it.

Quote:
If you want to say that Amata was like MIX, sure, but wasn't the original comparison Amata - Andy, MIX - Mikono? I wasn't forgetting events until we suddenly started playing musical chairs with who we're supposedly saying is overlapped with whom.
I just said that Amata was in Andy's position, of needing to apologize to Mikono for a misunderstanding, I'm not playing musical chairs, but if you got confused on something so simple then I wonder how well you really do remember those earlier episodes.
wisteria233 is offline  
Old 2012-05-02, 02:14   Link #88
kuromitsu
我、勝てり!
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
And yet again it's somehow all Amata's fault.

Zessica ran off while Amata was trying to do a proper rejection. How is that Amata's fault? Sure, Amata is probably not at all experienced in stuff like this (neither is Zessica, apparently) and he wasn't as assertive as he should've been, but still, he tried and Zessica didn't want to hear it. How is Amata responsible for finishing the talk, when it was Zessica who ran off in the first place?

I don't really understand why Amata needs to talk to Zessica either. He rejected her* she accepted that he doesn't love her (re: end of ep 17), end of story as far as Amata is concerned. Let's pretend that the Zessica in ep 18 was the result of a natural progression - she had still accepted Amata's decision. No-one forced her to stick around instead of trying to move on. I'm not saying one can't emphatize with Zessica but frankly, she brought this on herself. Amata owes her nothing.



*Unless of course this is again just a big ~misunderstanding~ and after 17 episodes of nothing he suddenly developed feelings for her. In which case the show is trying to insult my intelligence.
kuromitsu is offline  
Old 2012-05-02, 02:28   Link #89
Triple_R
Ho Ho Honoka!
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Newfoundland, Canada
Age: 33
Send a message via AIM to Triple_R
Quote:
Originally Posted by wisteria233 View Post
I've read their post but it doesn't do anything to help your point and my point still stands Amata already rejected her.
No he hasn't. Not really. There were implications there, but nothing concrete, and that's the problem.

Amata hasn't spelled out anything concrete. This sort of thing needs to be handled in no uncertain terms.


Quote:
Is it his fault that she doesn't want to hear it?
It's his fault that he's not doing more to resolve the overall "love quad" situation. If his heart is totally settled on Mikono, then properly confess to her already! Then he can turn around and let Zessica down easy with the added reason of him being in an actual, confirmed relationship with Mikono.

Amata's failure to act decisively has allowed this situation to get out of hand. Granted that Kagura has interrupted him at many intervals, and so that excuses Amata some. But even so, Amata has had opportunities to resolve the love quad.


Now, the real culprit is questionable writing, of course.

But that's what is victimizing Zessica at least as much as it is Amata, so if you're going to be hard on her...


Quote:
Amata just doesn't have any obligation towards Zessica.
Sure he does. They're classmates, friends, and regularly fly into combat alongside one another as allies. She made a passionate love confession to him. He absolutely ought to care some about her, and want to do what he can to see her through this. She's obviously not some stranger to him.


Quote:
Zessica clammed up because she realized that she liked Amata, after half heartedly flirting with him for three episodes. No further reason was given besides that. I'm only judging the Zessica who we've seen in the series so far, not the Zessica who had her behavior explained away by the creators. She played around with him for 3 episodes not 1, so I wouldn't say I'm being disproportionate at all. Again my point still stands she played around with Amata, before she really started liking him.
I disagree. I think that she initially "played around with him" in order to tease Mikono, not Amata. Zessica initially perceived Mikono as overly stuffy and uptight, so she decided to try to get under Mikono's skin a bit. I'm not defending it, except to say that I don't think that Zessica ever wanted to "pick on" Amata himself.

So in reality Zessica was playing around with Mikono, imo. But after flirting with Amata for a little bit, she started to realize that she was enjoying it for its own sake, rather than simply as a means of teasing Mikono. And I think that it only took her an episode or so to realize that she liked Amata for his own sake. But it did take a few more episodes until her feelings for him became increasingly serious, and less flirtatious.

It wasn't quite love at first sight, but I don't think all of the times she "played around with him" was purely for shits and giggles. I think that a lot of it (all but the first couple of times) was her acting out a crush on him that she herself wasn't fully recognizing as a crush until she started to reflect more on her feelings for Amata.


As for Andy, I don't think he had his eye on Mix specifically at first. Andy was an equal opportunity skirt-chaser at first. In his own way, Andy spent a lot of time just "playing around", like Zessica did. Both of them eventually grew closer to another specific individual.

This is part of the reason why I think there's some merit to the Zessica/Andy comparison. Both started lighthearted/playful, and shifted into something much more serious over time.
__________________
Triple_R is offline  
Old 2012-05-02, 03:08   Link #90
wisteria233
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: New York, NY
Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
No he hasn't. Not really. There were implications there, but nothing concrete, and that's the problem.

Amata hasn't spelled out anything concrete. This sort of thing needs to be handled in no uncertain terms.
he tried she ran off, but from her own words she knew that she was being rejected, so you're trying to say that he should run after her and yell,

"Zessica I don't love you!!" so that she gets the point?

As far as the narrative is concerned Amata did his part, he rejected Zessica. It's Zessica's fault, that she can't accept it and move on not Amata's.


Quote:
It's his fault that he's not doing more to resolve the overall "love quad" situation. If his heart is totally settled on Mikono, then properly confess to her already! Then he can turn around and let Zessica down easy with the added reason of him being in an actual, confirmed relationship with Mikono.

Amata's failure to act decisively has allowed this situation to get out of hand. Granted that Kagura has interrupted him at many intervals, and so that excuses Amata some. But even so, Amata has had opportunities to resolve the love quad.
This is getting ridiculous the lengths people will go to blame Amata for Zessica's inability to take a hint. Amata doesn't owe Zessica anything, and he has been pretty damn consistent in not showing any interest in Zessica for her to get the wrong idea. And case in point Zessica already knows that he doesn't like her despite her running off, while he was rejecting her.

While Amata's has failed to tell Mikono how he feels, he ultimately is not at fault, for not for either Zessica's or Kagura's position.



Quote:
Now, the real culprit is questionable writing, of course.

But that's what is victimizing Zessica at least as much as it is Amata, so if you're going to be hard on her...
Its the truth, the people who are victimizing Zessica and blaming Amata (even though he holds no fault here) are people like you. I find it hilarious that whenever anyone else messes up or acts like an idiot its the character, but whenever Zessica does it its the bad writing.


Quote:
Sure he does. They're classmates, friends, and regularly fly into combat alongside one another as allies. She made a passionate love confession to him. He absolutely ought to care some about her, and want to do what he can to see her through this. She's obviously not some stranger to him.
So he should be a absolute prick and say to her "Zessica, no matter what you do, no matter how you change yourself, I'll never love you, so get over me and move on"? Consider what it is that you're saying before you say it. I said before and I said again, Amata has no obligation towards Zessica to warrant him doing that.


Quote:
I disagree. I think that she initially "played around with him" in order to tease Mikono, not Amata. Zessica initially perceived Mikono as overly stuffy and uptight, so she decided to try to get under Mikono's skin a bit. I'm not defending it, except to say that I don't think that Zessica ever wanted to "pick on" Amata himself.

So in reality Zessica was playing around with Mikono, imo. But after flirting with Amata for a little bit, she started to realize that she was enjoying it for its own sake, rather than simply as a means of teasing Mikono. And I think that it only took her an episode or so to realize that she liked Amata for his own sake. But it did take a few more episodes until her feelings for him became increasingly serious, and less flirtatious.
Except the scene when she started doing it in episode 5 tells a different story, doesn't it? She was upset at being the third wheel on the date, and didn't like so she started to play around with Amata after she saw that he would fly whenever he got excited.

Quote:
It wasn't quite love at first sight, but I don't think all of the times she "played around with him" was purely for shits and giggles. I think that a lot of it (all but the first couple of times) was her acting out a crush on him that she herself wasn't fully recognizing as a crush until she started to reflect more on her feelings for Amata.
Again it was a crush that evolved from her playing around with him, you're not really doing much to change the perspective at all.
Quote:
As for Andy, I don't think he had his eye on Mix specifically at first. Andy was an equal opportunity skirt-chaser at first. In his own way, Andy spent a lot of time just "playing around", like Zessica did. Both of them eventually grew closer to another specific individual.
Except unlike Zessica Andy was genuinely interested in having a girlfriend. Also Andy was never shown to be playing around with girls, the way that Zessica was with Amata. so the parallel fails in that regard.

Quote:
This is part of the reason why I think there's some merit to the Zessica/Andy comparison. Both started lighthearted/playful, and shifted into something much more serious over time.
Both characters are playful I'll give you that much besides their playfulness, they have nothing else in common with one another. Also Andy only just lost his playfulness in the the last episode, though he is serious about Mix, he's still been pretty playful with her.
wisteria233 is offline  
Old 2012-05-02, 03:52   Link #91
NoemiChan
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Philippines
Age: 27
Send a message via Yahoo to NoemiChan Send a message via Skype™ to NoemiChan
Quote:
Originally Posted by wisteria233 View Post
So he should be a absolute prick and say to her "Zessica, no matter what you do, no matter how you change yourself, I'll never love you, so get over me and move on"?
God, I can't say that to a girl. I think "sorry" is enough. That line will make a girl cry and depressed.
NoemiChan is offline  
Old 2012-05-02, 05:28   Link #92
kuromitsu
我、勝てり!
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
No he hasn't. Not really. There were implications there, but nothing concrete, and that's the problem.

Amata hasn't spelled out anything concrete. This sort of thing needs to be handled in no uncertain terms.
And so it's Amata's responsibility to chase after Zessica just to tell her that he doesn't love her. Wuh?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
It's his fault that he's not doing more to resolve the overall "love quad" situation. If his heart is totally settled on Mikono, then properly confess to her already! Then he can turn around and let Zessica down easy with the added reason of him being in an actual, confirmed relationship with Mikono.
Eeeh? I'm not a guy so I don't know about any possibly existing "guys' etiquette to turning girls down" but why does he need to be in an established relationship to turn someone down? If he doesn't love her then that's more than enough reason.

Besides, it's not like Zessica was unaware that he's into Mikono. That's why Zessica had been so depressed until ep 17, because she knew that he was all Mikono all the time. In 18 episodes he never showed any romantic interest in her and kept pursuing Mikono. And Zessica was more than aware of this. Hell, she didn't even try pursuing him except for that one half-sentence when she told him about Apollon & Sylvie and Kagura & Mikono. So it's not like Amata was giving Zessica mixed signals, leading her to believe she had a chance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
Sure he does. They're classmates, friends, and regularly fly into combat alongside one another as allies. She made a passionate love confession to him. He absolutely ought to care some about her, and want to do what he can to see her through this. She's obviously not some stranger to him.
Whoa, whoa!! So basically, your're saying that Amata has a responsibility to "see Zessica through this"? Now, I don't know about others, but I think that would be pretty horrible. First he rejects her, then there's this hugely awkward situation of two friends with a broken heart in between, and then he should actually go after her and try to help her mending her broken heart? That would be giving mixed signals and wouldn't help Zessica's situation in the very least.

Last edited by kuromitsu; 2012-05-02 at 05:47.
kuromitsu is offline  
Old 2012-05-02, 07:52   Link #93
miketyson
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
kuromitsu: Triple_R's advice seems like a mix of doing the right thing and hedging one's bets ().

Anyways, I think with Zessica she's just acting as she said she would: she won't give up until she sees Mikono clearly reciprocate Amata's feelings (not just act jealous). I don't think there's much Amata can or should do about Zessica's situation beyond what he's already done, really, and for now the ball seems to be in Mikono's court. At the same time it's not as though Mikono's obligated to act any differently than she did before just because of Zessica. It might be *advisable*, but I don't see there being any obligation, either.
miketyson is offline  
Old 2012-05-02, 08:59   Link #94
Triple_R
Ho Ho Honoka!
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Newfoundland, Canada
Age: 33
Send a message via AIM to Triple_R
Quote:
Originally Posted by wisteria233 View Post
he tried she ran off, but from her own words she knew that she was being rejected, so you're trying to say that he should run after her and yell,

"Zessica I don't love you!!" so that she gets the point?
I think it would have been beneficial if he had met up with her later on, and been concrete with her about how he values her as a friend but also that he doesn't have romantic feelings for her.

When somebody loudly and passionately confesses to you, I think that calls for an equally clear and concrete reply, and not just a simple hint.

You give a hint for a hint, but if somebody gives you a clear-cut romantic confession then I think the right thing to do is to give them a clear-cut response.

Now of course it doesn't have to be "Zessica, no matter what you do, no matter how you change yourself, I'll never love you, so get over me and move on."

Just a simple "Zessica, I really value you as a friend, but I'm just not interested in you that way. Sorry."

You know, just the classic "let her down easy".


Look, you can't put aside the fact that they go to the same class together, and even regularly fight alongside each other in combat together!

Let's say that the Yellow Ranger confessed to the Red Ranger, of the five/six-person Power Rangers team. I mean, that really is like what we're talking about here. This isn't something that can simply be hinted away, the two people are too associated with each other as it is.

I think some people here aren't seeing the team/military side of things here. Would you want to be Pilot No. 3 of a three-way Aquarion Union with Amata and Zessica while their issues remain unresolved in the immediate wake of Zessica confessing to Amata? Amata clearing things up with Zessica wouldn't just be beneficial to her, it would also be beneficial to the entire military-based team that he and her are big parts of.


Quote:
This is getting ridiculous the lengths people will go to blame Amata for Zessica's inability to take a hint. Amata doesn't owe Zessica anything,
Well, if you want to get technical, Zessica has helped him out in many situations. Remember Kagura's last appearance? Zessica followed Amata around the city during the chase for Mikono, and she helped him out quite a bit here.

I truly don't get why you and kuro talk about Amata and Zessica as though they're two strangers to one another. Don't you think that simply being a reliable/trusted friend and combat ally to someone means you owe them a certain level of basic care and concern?


Quote:
Except unlike Zessica Andy was genuinely interested in having a girlfriend.
Actually, way back in Episode 1 or 2, didn't Zessica and MIX have an argument over the idea of having a mecha union with a guy? Zessica always struck me as liking the idea of having a boyfriend.


Quote:
Also Andy was never shown to be playing around with girls, the way that Zessica was with Amata. so the parallel fails in that regard.
How is Andy basically trying to play Peeping Tom any more respectable than Zessica making Amata fly? Really now...


Quote:
Originally Posted by kuromitsu View Post
Eeeh? I'm not a guy so I don't know about any possibly existing "guys' etiquette to turning girls down" but why does he need to be in an established relationship to turn someone down? If he doesn't love her then that's more than enough reason.
I'm certainly not saying that he needs to. It's just that it might make it a bit easier for him to do, since it might enable him to shift the tone of it from "I just don't like you that way" to "I'm already taken, sorry". The latter might be better for Zessica's self-esteem than the former.


Quote:
Besides, it's not like Zessica was unaware that he's into Mikono. That's why Zessica had been so depressed until ep 17, because she knew that he was all Mikono all the time. In 18 episodes he never showed any romantic interest in her and kept pursuing Mikono. And Zessica was more than aware of this. Hell, she didn't even try pursuing him except for that one half-sentence when she told him about Apollon & Sylvie and Kagura & Mikono. So it's not like Amata was giving Zessica mixed signals, leading her to believe she had a chance.
Well, during all those times that Zessica basically flirted with Amata, did Amata ever tell her to "cut it out"? Did he ever ask her to stop? Maybe I'm forgetting a scene somewhere, but I don't recall him ever asking her to cut it out.

I don't think Amata's done anything wrong here, but I can understand why Zessica might hold some small glimmer of hope inside of her heart somewhere.


Quote:
Whoa, whoa!! So basically, your're saying that Amata has a responsibility to "see Zessica through this"?
I'm not saying that he should make himself a shoulder to cry on. All I meant by "see her through this" is to let her down easily. And then just be a good friend/ally in general.
__________________
Triple_R is offline  
Old 2012-05-02, 09:33   Link #95
mayumi
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
you know apollo cared about reika/jun/pierre/sirius/tsugumi/rena all just as much as he did silvia. apollo was never obsessed with silvia. he wanted to protect her sure but if reika needed comfort after the whole sirius leaving thing, he gave it to her. it was episode 23 or whatever. he was just a nice guy despite the whole wild animal behaviour.

if amata can't even do that i don't know what kind of hero he is. he doesn't have to say any harsh stuff to let zessica down. all he has to tell her is i am sorry, i like you and consider you my friend. it can't be that difficult to do for him if he doesn't have any feelings for her right?
mayumi is offline  
Old 2012-05-02, 09:36   Link #96
miketyson
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Triple_R: it's good reasoning but it's just not consistent with the way the show's inner logic seems to work.

The show's taken its own "military/fighting" angle extremely inconsistently. Mikono's sticking up for Kagura is the best example so far: on the one hand it's enough of an issue that when Amata starts talking to her about recent events, Mikono assumes that that's what he must've wanted to talk about. On the other hand, it's apparently not enough of an issue for Cayenne to ever bring up with her, it doesn't remove her from the active duty list, and at this point no one other than her and Amata are bothered by it.

Same with Zessica's love declaration: despite making Aquarion go berserk, blowing up an island, and damaging one of the vectors (I think that's why they only have 5 in working order right now). If they were writing the military angle more seriously she'd be off the active duty list, or at least barred from further piloting with Amata, but instead Donar gives her a pass. That's just how this show works.

I expect a similar level of inconsistency / "who-cares" to crop up next week with the way Amata paused mid-battle after seeing his mom's hologram floating in the clouds. As-is if I were in charge of neo-deava the three leads would all be off active duty for now: Mikono for sticking up for Kagura, Zessica for being a loose cannon, Amata for questionable mental status...but somehow I'm not seeing that happening.

tl;dr: you can't really get very far applying military/combat/team logic in this show, it's just not something the writers care about even on their good days.
miketyson is offline  
Old 2012-05-02, 09:41   Link #97
kuromitsu
我、勝てり!
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
I truly don't get why you and kuro talk about Amata and Zessica as though they're two strangers to one another. Don't you think that simply being a reliable/trusted friend and combat ally to someone means you owe them a certain level of basic care and concern?
I'm not saying they're strangers, I'm saying Amata doesn't owe Zessica to go out his way to console her for rejecting her. Sure, as a friend he should be gentle and careful, and did try to do just that, but Zessica ran off. What would you have Amata do? Go after her when she clearly doesn't want him to, corner her, and tell her "just to make this clear, I don't like you like that"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
Well, during all those times that Zessica basically flirted with Amata, did Amata ever tell her to "cut it out"? Did he ever ask her to stop? Maybe I'm forgetting a scene somewhere, but I don't recall him ever asking her to cut it out.
He never told her to cut it out already (he did protest, which was treated as part of the flying boner gag), but again, that was something I've complained about before: they were avoiding it because that would've ruined the gag and taken Zessica's relationship with him in a direction that the writers didn't want take. But every time Zessica did that he was very clearly uncomfortable, and every time he was desperate to assure Mikono that it was just a misunderstanding.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
I'm not saying that he should make himself a shoulder to cry on. All I meant by "see her through this" is to let her down easily. And then just be a good friend/ally in general.
But he tried to do that. He can't really do anything more, not without hurting her (and further jeopardizing his relationship with Mikono).

Quote:
Originally Posted by miketyson View Post
Triple_R: it's good reasoning but it's just not consistent with the way the show's inner logic seems to work.
You mean the shows nonexistent inner logic. ^^;; Re: Yunoha having no comment on Mikono protecting the guy who attacked the school and killed a number of their classmates (and also inadvertantly caused Jin's death). And so on and so on...

Last edited by kuromitsu; 2012-05-02 at 09:58.
kuromitsu is offline  
Old 2012-05-02, 11:09   Link #98
Vena
Carpe Diem
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: ||At the edge of finality.||
Age: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by kuromitsu View Post
But he tried to do that. He can't really do anything more, not without hurting her (and further jeopardizing his relationship with Mikono).
I think this is where Triple_R and I are coming from, the anime (and the writing) have left that scene unfinished. We knew he was trying to chase after her to finish saying what he was going to say but the action, while initiated, hasn't resolved. I'm fine in saying he rejected her but even he was out to say a word or two more because he saw a problem with Zessica's reaction. If he's shown trying to do a step more but gets interrupted, I do not see the fault in us expecting him to finish what he himself started. Its not like we expect Amata to take a dive from a sitting position if he'd never moved from the bench, but he went all the way to the diving board only to get stopped halfway.
__________________
Transcend Eternity
Vena is offline  
Old 2012-05-02, 11:18   Link #99
miketyson
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
It's bad writing for sure. The way that scene ends Amata and Zessica are both standing around as Mikono stomps off as per usual.

Regardless of whether or not Amata has some kind of duty to finish his conversation with Zessica, the fact that their conversation seemingly stopped there does seem *really* hard to swallow (especially since Zessica's lunch was on the ground so she'd be unlikely to leave immediately). Like, after she left I guess they just shrugged their shoulders and awkwardly walked in different directions, and didn't speak with each other until they had that banana-milk hot-tub session...sigh.

That much is poor writing that strains suspension of disbelief. It's not an isolated incident, either, it's just more "unable to write certain scenes without tipping the character interactions in ways they don't want to go (yet)".
miketyson is offline  
Old 2012-05-02, 20:42   Link #100
SolarAquarion
Organic Mecha
 
 
Join Date: May 2012
Age: 21
Zessica is the only pure maiden in this show. The other girl just wants the wolf between her legs. / /a/ shipping war shitstorm.

Disregard my blatant trolling and hear me out. Kawamori, where the hell are you taking this show????
SolarAquarion is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:14.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.