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Old 2012-05-03, 10:25   Link #1181
hyl
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joshuafaramir View Post
How can a damned machine "predict" what he's going to become in the future via potential? How can you even measure the "potential" of a person anyway? The machine can only make an analysis based on his experience, how he view himself, and how he feels about himself.
You seem to forget that Accel world is a sci-fi. As in litterly Science Fiction. For sci-fi it's not impossible to see machines predicting someone's potential.
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Old 2012-05-03, 10:26   Link #1182
Darth SpiderDen
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Originally Posted by joshuafaramir View Post
Don't give me that BS like "blurring the difference between reality and virtual reality." This isn't the Matrix where everyone, from birth to death, is living in a "dream world" or SAO where their reality has become the virtual one precisely because they live there now and death their means death in real life as well.

Accel World is just a game where you can "log-in and log-out" off. Real life is something continuous. There is no "log-off button" except for death therefore, NOTHING is more realistic than real life. Real life is where you live and die. That's the crux.

So your saying the "machine" analyses the users potential and uses that as a basis for avatar making? I don't think that's what the machine does because that's just a "prediction" if we are talking about potential.
Yeah, that's my overall definition of reality too. I just like to exercise my imagination from time to time and see if I can blur the line a little bit.
About the next part: well, this is anime; neuro-linkers that connect your brain to the internet, burst-linkers, accelerated world that only a few can connect too and work there; so why not a system that can evaluate your potential and give you a form you can work on and build it up from that point up?
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Old 2012-05-03, 10:26   Link #1183
joshuafaramir
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Originally Posted by MeisterBabylon View Post
We all know that "true badasses that kick butt" will only beget trouble in real life. So we all wear personas which are ultimately interactions of the id, ego and superego. These are mostly subconscious, but are really what we truly are.

It just so happens that Silver Crow is how Burst Link appraises Chii-chan's subconscious worth. Does he have the ego of a flawless diamond waiting to be cut? Or is his id some monstrous power waiting in the shadows? Or is his superego on the level that breaks imagination? I don't know, but the end result is Silver Cross, therefore we can only infer what was in the Black Box from with it came.
So you mean to say that a "machine" knows you better than yourself? Nobody should know you better than yourself. You should know better than anyone else what your weaknesses and strengths are. I believe in the power of will, and that you can overcome anything through the strength of will. If you feel, act, and believe that you're a loser, then aren't you really one?

Or do you believe in a person who feel, act, and believes that he's a loser but subconsciously knows he's not and that's what he truly is.
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Old 2012-05-03, 10:29   Link #1184
hyl
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Originally Posted by joshuafaramir View Post
Nobody should know you better than yourself.
That is a debatable statement. There are many things that you do know about yourself but some things like what you unconsciously do are not noticed by yourself.
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Old 2012-05-03, 10:31   Link #1185
Darth SpiderDen
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Originally Posted by joshuafaramir View Post
So you mean to say that a "machine" knows you better than yourself? Nobody should know you better than yourself. You should know better than anyone else what your weaknesses and strengths are. I believe in the power of will, and that you can overcome anything through the strength of will. If you feel, act, and believe that you're a loser, then aren't you really one?

Or do you believe in a person who feel, act, and believes that he's a loser but subconsciously knows he's not and that's what he truly is.
Power of will mean absolutely nothing. You may have all the power of will in the world and still a bullet can kill you.
And this is an anime. Haru's someone who's been repressed for almost his entire life and doesn't believe he's capable of anything. But a part of him recognizes his valor in the virtual world, not the real world (has per his own words in ep. 1). It's a place where he can be anything, independent from his other life.
One of the things we see in the first episodes is Haru's desires of setting himself free from the real world and gaining new heights, becoming something different somewhere else. The system detected those beliefs that in a different world, he would become someone different from what he is in the real world and so Silver Crow was born.
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Old 2012-05-03, 10:31   Link #1186
joshuafaramir
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Originally Posted by Darth SpiderDen View Post
Yeah, that's my overall definition of reality too. I just like to exercise my imagination from time to time and see if I can blur the line a little bit.
About the next part: well, this is anime; neuro-linkers that connect your brain to the internet, burst-linkers, accelerated world that only a few can connect too and work there; so why not a system that can evaluate your potential and give you a form you can work on and build it up from that point up?
The thing with potential is that it CHANGES. It's not set in stone. So for a machine to make a concrete simulation based on potential is flawed and unreasonable. Also, potential won't matter if you don't act on it, use it, and develop it. His "Silver Crow" is definitely not a measure of his potential because potentials are "potentially limitless"
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Old 2012-05-03, 10:33   Link #1187
joshuafaramir
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Originally Posted by hyl View Post
That is a debatable statement. There are many things that you do know about yourself but some things like what you unconsciously do are not noticed by yourself.
I agree that there are "some things" you don't know about yourself but chances are, you know yourself better than anyone. That's why people hate it when they are being judged by others.
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Old 2012-05-03, 10:33   Link #1188
Darth SpiderDen
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Originally Posted by joshuafaramir View Post
The thing with potential is that it CHANGES. It's not set in stone. So for a machine to make a concrete simulation based on potential is flawed and unreasonable. Also, potential won't matter if you don't act on it, use it, and develop it. His "Silver Crow" is definitely not a measure of his potential because potentials are "potentially limitless"
How does he start out?
Isn't his avatar quite weak with very reedeming qualities about it?
Through effort and planning, he was able to use those qualities and defeat a stronger opponent.
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Old 2012-05-03, 10:35   Link #1189
GundamZZ
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Originally Posted by joshuafaramir View Post
But does that mean your "true self" was a badass person who kicks butt? Or was it just your fantasy? You see the problem here is that the "Burst-Link System" analyzes who you truly are, what you truly are, and your real worth through a complete analysis of your mind, how you view yourself, and apparently, your heart as well.
It's incorrect. Silver Crow is not Haruyuki's fantasy. In episode 2, Kuroyukihime already stated that it's the reflection of Haruyuki's weakness. Haruyuki's weakness is most likely CQC. He's trying to overcome it. If the avatar is based on Haruyuki's strength, the anime is already over. Regarding the reason for using pig avartar, it's a spoiler.
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Old 2012-05-03, 10:41   Link #1190
joshuafaramir
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Originally Posted by Darth SpiderDen View Post
Power of will mean absolutely nothing. You may have all the power of will in the world and still a bullet can kill you.
And this is an anime. Haru's someone who's been repressed for almost his entire life and doesn't believe he's capable of anything. But a part of him recognizes his valor in the virtual world, not the real world (has per his own words in ep. 1). It's a place where he can be anything, independent from his other life.
One of the things we see in the first episodes is Haru's desires of setting himself free from the real world and gaining new heights, becoming something different somewhere else. The system detected those beliefs that in a different world, he would become someone different from what he is in the real world and so Silver Crow was born.
So now we are talking about a machine detecting and predicting how he would become in a different world? I thought it only measures what is and what was.

Let me get this straight: Haru is a loser in real life but dreams of grandeur in VR world.
Machine comes along and measures his dreams of grandeur instead and ignores reality. Is that it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth SpiderDen View Post
Power of will mean absolutely nothing. You may have all the power of will in the world and still a bullet can kill you.
That's taken out of context
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Old 2012-05-03, 10:47   Link #1191
Kaioshin Sama
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I know its not really my place to ask and I have no business doing a "mods job" but can I ask you folks to cool it or at least take this all to PM so that the mod staff has less work to do when they do eventually show up in this thread which is starting to look like a given.
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Old 2012-05-03, 11:06   Link #1192
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Originally Posted by Haak View Post
There's got to be more to it than just an accident or Araya wanting revenge, otherwise the whole car incident will feel like a cheap plot device made to force the story into the direction it wants.
EVERYTHING in a story is a plot device to force the story in the direction it wants. This is no more cheap than anything else. It's an attack by a lunatic from a direction that Hime hadn't been considering. The whole point is that she was so focused on her issues with the Brain Burst program that she hadn't truly considered that ordinary people with ordinary issues could still be a danger.
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Old 2012-05-03, 11:16   Link #1193
Haak
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Originally Posted by Random Wanderer View Post
EVERYTHING in a story is a plot device to force the story in the direction it wants. This is no more cheap than anything else. It's an attack by a lunatic from a direction that Hime hadn't been considering. The whole point is that she was so focused on her issues with the Brain Burst program that she hadn't truly considered that ordinary people with ordinary issues could still be a danger.
Most plot devices are subtle enough to make the direction of the story flow rather than force it. Some stories aren't even plot driven so it matters less but that's not the case here. The thing is, this aspect has come about rather sudden and out of nowhere. The focus of the story up until that point was about finding out the Burst Linker and then suddenly this storyline theme comes out of nowhere. And then suddenly it's all about Accel World again. It's just a bit too haphazard to me.

And plus it uses a bad example. It's just a lunatic who wanted revenge. Those type of events are one off and it's hard to really prepare for something like that anyway. A better way of presenting such a message would be if we saw a gradual isolation into Accel World matters and pointedly ignoring other aspects of real life (E.g. Grades, Appreance)
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Old 2012-05-03, 12:43   Link #1194
joshuafaramir
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What manga spoilers was I talking about? I haven't even read the manga.

It was clearly shown in the latest eps. that the guy was planning on hitting KYH's avatar when she's unconscious....
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Old 2012-05-03, 12:45   Link #1195
DragoZERO
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Originally Posted by Haak View Post
Most plot devices are subtle enough to make the direction of the story flow rather than force it. Some stories aren't even plot driven so it matters less but that's not the case here. The thing is, this aspect has come about rather sudden and out of nowhere. The focus of the story up until that point was about finding out the Burst Linker and then suddenly this storyline theme comes out of nowhere. And then suddenly it's all about Accel World again. It's just a bit too haphazard to me.
I think the sudden change was good. We need something to happen to spice things up. I think it was a little early for the heroine to sacrifice herself like that, but it's going to force Haru to grow leaps and bounds.

Quote:
And plus it uses a bad example. It's just a lunatic who wanted revenge. Those type of events are one off and it's hard to really prepare for something like that anyway. A better way of presenting such a message would be if we saw a gradual isolation into Accel World matters and pointedly ignoring other aspects of real life (E.g. Grades, Appreance)
When Haru said the online world was his real world I was afraid we were going to go in that direction. Watching that would be a bit too depressing for me. Plus, I don't think it would have fit in well with an action series.
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Old 2012-05-03, 12:46   Link #1196
Solace
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Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama View Post
I know its not really my place to ask and I have no business doing a "mods job" but can I ask you folks to cool it or at least take this all to PM so that the mod staff has less work to do when they do eventually show up in this thread which is starting to look like a given.
I am the darkness in a censored anime, I am the quivering of the oppai on the screen, I am the terror that is another Gonzo story.....I am Darkwing Mod!


Seriously guys....what he said. Lighten up, it's just a story. No need to get all serious business about it. And mind the spoiler talk.
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Old 2012-05-03, 12:47   Link #1197
Randrak42
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Originally Posted by Haak View Post
From a storyline point of view, I can't see much sense in that. There's got to be more to it than just an accident or Araya wanting revenge, otherwise the whole car incident will feel like a cheap plot device made to force the story into the direction it wants. I would've at least thought that a Burst Linker was involved somehow.
There's got to be more to it...or do you just want it to be more than it is?

Shit can happen, both in fiction or in real life. The world goes on, even if you are not present. Araya was a complete bully who's life was ruined by Haru and KYH, he possibly also has mental problems and decided to take his revenge. Having characters do things independently to the MCs, having their own lives is not bad story telling, in my opinion it's actually good.
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Old 2012-05-03, 14:42   Link #1198
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Originally Posted by Solace View Post
I am the darkness in a censored anime, I am the quivering of the oppai on the screen, I am the terror that is another Gonzo story.....I am Darkwing Mod!
Let's get Dangerous!!!

But back on subject

Quote:
From a storyline point of view, I can't see much sense in that. There's got to be more to it than just an accident or Araya wanting revenge, otherwise the whole car incident will feel like a cheap plot device made to force the story into the direction it wants. I would've at least thought that a Burst Linker was involved somehow.
A cheap plot device , I dont think so. Just remember what hapoen and type of person that he is. Then you added those two things then you get something like that. Araya is a coward and bully.
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Old 2012-05-03, 14:50   Link #1199
Haak
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Originally Posted by Randrak42 View Post
There's got to be more to it...or do you just want it to be more than it is?
That's what the phrase means, yes...

Quote:
Shit can happen, both in fiction or in real life. The world goes on, even if you are not present. Araya was a complete bully who's life was ruined by Haru and KYH, he possibly also has mental problems and decided to take his revenge. Having characters do things independently to the MCs, having their own lives is not bad story telling, in my opinion it's actually good.
Show, not tell.

None of this was shown. It was hardly even told. We got one line about how Araya wanted revenge and we had to assume the rest. Contrary to what you may think bullies don't all become murders when they get convicted of assault. The general idea is to show whats abnormal. Light Novel knowledge must be pretty nice for you but it means very little to me.

Besides, like I said its the transitioning and its storytelling purpose that I have a problem with. Because "shit happens" is generally not a good reason to put in a plot device unless the event is an actual accident (e.g Kanon, Idolmaster) that has a storytelling purpose to it (unless it's simply played for comedy).
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Old 2012-05-03, 15:27   Link #1200
Anh_Minh
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Originally Posted by Haak View Post
That's what the phrase means, yes...



Show, not tell.

None of this was shown. It was hardly even told. We got one line about how Araya wanted revenge and we had to assume the rest. Contrary to what you may think bullies don't all become murders when they get convicted of assault. The general idea is to show whats abnormal. Light Novel knowledge must be pretty nice for you but it means very little to me.

Besides, like I said its the transitioning and its storytelling purpose that I have a problem with. Because "shit happens" is generally not a good reason to put in a plot device unless the event is an actual accident (e.g Kanon, Idolmaster) that has a storytelling purpose to it (unless it's simply played for comedy).
Araya's face was censored for - I think - external reasons.
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