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Old 2012-05-01, 22:53   Link #2001
Hooves
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Gave Hecarim a few tries, and when I found a good build. I was doing much better then how I was doing earlier. Also trying the new spectator mode and I must say. That I like watching matches like I'm a broadcaster
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Old 2012-05-02, 00:18   Link #2002
Konakaga
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So in the spectator mode I watched a few ranked matches to see how people played certain champs in ranked, but I noticed in none of the matches CV was used as a summoner spell, is it not considered good anymore?, or do pros only run it in premades?
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Old 2012-05-02, 02:19   Link #2003
Kafriel
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Who knows, I always run CV on supports...many people have upped their ward usage though, and lack of CV encourages activity in that field, so maybe they don't need it anymore. I still think it's one of the best summoner spells.

In other news, Ryze is back to his OP glory.

RoA x2, sorc boots, arc staff, frozen heart, abyssal scepter -> well over 2k HP/4k MP, 150+ DEF, ~100 MDEF, 500 AP. Just went from bruiser and tough AP back to AP carry...I can't tell where Morello saw the glass cannon in this.

Spectator mode is nice, watched a few cool matches with lots of baiting and stealing, colorblind option is a life saver. Liking the camera function so far. It's a shame so many people surrender in ranked...
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Old 2012-05-02, 03:40   Link #2004
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I guess the "downfall" of CV began when Riot nerfed it pretty hard some time ago, decreasing duration (by nerfing mastery) and severely increasing cd.

I also agree with the current meta of support summoner spells. Exhaust is much more crucial in actual fights to save your carry and generally cut damage from lategame autoattack monsters such as Kog.

The only situation I personally pick CV nowadays is when the opponent ad carry is not that autoattack-dependent (e.g. Corki) , the support champ I picked already has a slow and the opponent team doesn't have more than 1 ad bruiser which I'll have to peel off my carry mid-late.

edit: looked up the cv changes
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Old 2012-05-02, 05:58   Link #2005
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I pick up CV on supports that have a heal like Sona or Alistar. For the others it's usually any combination of Flash/Exhaust/Heal/(Ignite).

CV is still a very solid spell.
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Old 2012-05-02, 09:13   Link #2006
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For some reason, I saw 3 AD Kennens today...one was in a ranked team, wtf? Is there a viable AD build for him, coz they all fed hard.
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Old 2012-05-02, 10:24   Link #2007
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I prefer CV generally for any support, I mean do ranked players not worry about early game jungle invasions anymore?, and watching those matches I noticed a few times supports had got caught warding objectives... where they could have cv'd and not walked into a trap... and while exhaust is useful it requires you to a lot closer than you might like to for some supports, and generally someone besides the support had exhaust in theses matches too.

Quote:
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For some reason, I saw 3 AD Kennens today...one was in a ranked team, wtf? Is there a viable AD build for him, coz they all fed hard.
Because of the stun and passive on his w, AD is viable against some lanes that would normally beat AP Kennen, though idk the exact item build.

Also on quirks of ranked I can't for the life me understand how/why they build Skarner, they all rush philo and HoG like some kinda of support, and some get Shurelya's Reverie before upgrading boots... or getting a sheen (and most of these skarners did BAD), I can't understand it at all, no damage, or resistances early game leaves skarner very lacking. I get Philo sometimes on him, but generally not first item, and I find HoG to be a poor choice since Frozen Heart is infinitely better than Randuin's Omen for Skarner since he has a natural slow and makes really good use of mana and CDR .
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Old 2012-05-02, 10:41   Link #2008
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Quote:
and while exhaust is useful it requires you to a lot closer than you might like to for some supports, and generally someone besides the support had exhaust in theses matches too.
This is the main reason why I forego exhaust on anyone who is either support or long-ranged. Getting into dash distance usually spells your doom, since the best targets to exhaust are often the carries...not to mention most of them run cleanse.
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I can't for the life me understand how/why they build Skarner, they all rush philo and HoG like some kinda of support, and some get Shurelya's Reverie before upgrading boots... or getting a sheen (and most of these skarners did BAD)
Some people think that gp5 is everything for the "underfarmed jungler" and so choose to attempt ganks while lacking the most crucial parts of a gank, i.e. MS and AD. Then again, Skarner can live without ganks, but what's the point of playing Skarner if you're not sticking your claws in the enemy's face? The only gp5 I rush are kage picks since they provide a decent amount of damage, avarice blade on Trynda, philo stone on a few supports and HoG on Mundo. Everyone else can wait till they get a core item or two before branching out to gp5.
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Old 2012-05-02, 15:14   Link #2009
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Kagami's Skarner build really did allow Skarner to be up in the enemies' face. Steamrolling them, I saw gp5 items on some Skarners that I saw in spectator. Then thought it surprising that jungling/laning Skarners would need these.
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Old 2012-05-02, 17:30   Link #2010
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Kennen AD build is what I play for early ganks, its not viable. Its just really fun. I like to call it...The billy mays build, you buy a dorans blade at the start and.. "then wait theres more" you recall at 6(for top lane) and buy another dorans blade and if you can level 1 boots. Was 7/2/9 earlier with it. After I had 3 dorans I picked up the BF sword and then the game finished , I was against Udyr who was aweful.

I only do AD Kennen for jokes, AP is what I always go for.
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Old 2012-05-02, 20:15   Link #2011
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The problem with CV is it's limited in uses compared to something like heal or exhaust (or ignite if they have like, Soraka).
That said most people will only take CV if they know they're invading or something like that.

Also getting gp10 on someone like Skarner really helps him late game, HoG and Philo upgrade into good items for him and allow him to get his build off the ground even when his ganks are failing. He's also not a great early ganker, I mean, they have impact but they're not as good pre-6.
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Old 2012-05-03, 07:31   Link #2012
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Gp10 Skarner has been the 'regular' build for a long time. Reason for this is because pre-6 his ganks are meh, which makes the most of him just clearing his jungle till the 7-8 mins mark. Another is that he has no problem with clear speed, but with mana, which Philo helps with. Not only that, but Philo upgrades to Shurelya's, which is very helpful in getting the ultimate to work to its true potential. Finally, Shurelya's give CDR, which is almost as important to him as it is to Ryze, due to their passive.

Of course, you can build wriggles on him and max W first, but then you aren't taking advantage of his AoE clearing (ie. missing out on speed) and all the advantages above.
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Old 2012-05-03, 14:26   Link #2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DragoonKain3 View Post
Gp10 Skarner has been the 'regular' build for a long time. Reason for this is because pre-6 his ganks are meh, which makes the most of him just clearing his jungle till the 7-8 mins mark. Another is that he has no problem with clear speed, but with mana, which Philo helps with. Not only that, but Philo upgrades to Shurelya's, which is very helpful in getting the ultimate to work to its true potential. Finally, Shurelya's give CDR, which is almost as important to him as it is to Ryze, due to their passive.

Of course, you can build wriggles on him and max W first, but then you aren't taking advantage of his AoE clearing (ie. missing out on speed) and all the advantages above.
Quote:
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Also getting gp10 on someone like Skarner really helps him late game, HoG and Philo upgrade into good items for him and allow him to get his build off the ground even when his ganks are failing. He's also not a great early ganker, I mean, they have impact but they're not as good pre-6.
I use to go wriggles, but after the constant nerfing of it, I ended up not building now usually, my 'core' for skarner is Boots(Merc or Ninja depended on team), Wit's End, Sheen, and Frozen Heart. I do get Trinity Force at some point and will get Philo Stone early if mid needs blue sooner(though I generally prefer picking Skarner when we have vlad, kennen, morde, or some other manaless mid since taking more than first 2 blues helps him a lot), and I have to disagree about his pre-6 ganks, though you can't always get a kill, I can commonly force a flash against top or mid since they don't ward as early as bot does usually with his q slow and red slow. And HoG like I said before I disagree with because Skarner benefits so much more from Frozen Heart than Randuin's Omen, so I'd rather just pick up an early Chainmail than HoG.
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Old 2012-05-03, 19:54   Link #2014
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HoG pays for itself in 27 mins, or half that time if you decide to sell it. In the meantime, you do get 250 health, which every point counts since you won't be building more hp outside Shurelya/Tri-force. And 250hp by lvl 11 is like 17% increase in hp (more at earlier levels, like 25% increase at lvl 6), which is significant when your biggest threat in mid-game are the bursts from AP carries.

Finally, there's enough gold in the jungle to have both philo + boots 1 after your first clear, and HoG before the 10 mins mark (usually around the 8 mins mark after you give blue to mid). Nothing is really stopping you from building HoG, get Frozen Heart, then sell HoG once you need your 6th slot.
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Old 2012-05-03, 20:27   Link #2015
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Originally Posted by Ak3mi View Post
Kennen AD build is what I play for early ganks, its not viable. Its just really fun. I like to call it...The billy mays build, you buy a dorans blade at the start and.. "then wait theres more" you recall at 6(for top lane) and buy another dorans blade and if you can level 1 boots. Was 7/2/9 earlier with it. After I had 3 dorans I picked up the BF sword and then the game finished , I was against Udyr who was aweful.

I only do AD Kennen for jokes, AP is what I always go for.
m5 wants a word with you. The only problem AD Kennen has is that he needs to win his lane. If the enemy AD has the same cs (kills/deaths) as you then that means that he's ahead just because he's a proper AD (unless it's Urgot). That said you can build AD Kennen toplane as well without much trouble.

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The problem with CV is it's limited in uses compared to something like heal or exhaust (or ignite if they have like, Soraka).
That said most people will only take CV if they know they're invading or something like that.
Heal/Exhaust/Ignite are infight spells, CV is used outside of combat so it's rather pointless to compare them. Other summoners are just as 'limited' as CV so I can't really follow your point anyway. Besides that what other reason do you need other than CV being a free maphack?
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Old 2012-05-04, 05:41   Link #2016
Ak3mi
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Aha m5 will wont they? I find the hardest to lane against with AD Kennen is Vlad or Riven. Olaf isn't too bad if I get some help from my jungler to put pressure on him.

When does the big tournament thingy start for 5 million dollars?
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Old 2012-05-04, 07:49   Link #2017
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Originally Posted by Ak3mi View Post
Aha m5 will wont they? I find the hardest to lane against with AD Kennen is Vlad or Riven. Olaf isn't too bad if I get some help from my jungler to put pressure on him.

When does the big tournament thingy start for 5 million dollars?
There's a map/chart in the official news with all the regional qualifiers' and finals' dates.

As for the AD Kennen discussion, I think there are some reasons that speak greatly against him being more viable than AP. None of his spells scale with ad, he has no passive attackspeed buff. The only actual reason for AD is that his passive + W-passive benefits from attack speed in order to stun. That stun however is subject to diminishing returns which to me is the core reason he falls off horribly in lategame.

Ye, he's gimmicky.
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Old 2012-05-04, 11:19   Link #2018
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DragoonKain3 View Post
HoG pays for itself in 27 mins, or half that time if you decide to sell it. In the meantime, you do get 250 health, which every point counts since you won't be building more hp outside Shurelya/Tri-force. And 250hp by lvl 11 is like 17% increase in hp (more at earlier levels, like 25% increase at lvl 6), which is significant when your biggest threat in mid-game are the bursts from AP carries.

Finally, there's enough gold in the jungle to have both philo + boots 1 after your first clear, and HoG before the 10 mins mark (usually around the 8 mins mark after you give blue to mid). Nothing is really stopping you from building HoG, get Frozen Heart, then sell HoG once you need your 6th slot.
Well the other reason I don't go gp5 is because regrowth pendant start on skarner leaves you dangerous low on HP for a good bit of your first clear compared to cloth and 5 pots, which puts you in a lot more danger of being counter jungled or ganked in your jungle. And also I've found it leaves me at too low of hp to safely gank early on comparatively, though this could be due to me running movement speed% quints(I run AS marks) and not something else.
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Old 2012-05-04, 13:47   Link #2019
Kafriel
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Saw some epic Jarvan IV ganking today...double kill @ bot, buff steal on late enemy jungler, drake dominance and mid assist, all on the same trip. I always have to go back at some point, can't fight barefoot <_<

Also picked up a game with nRated in it, got very interesting at 13' or so. It's amazing how many things people can come up with, I haven't given much thought to specific team compositions yet.

Moment of epicness: Hecarim swan dive into the enemy fountain to fear and flash back out
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Old 2012-05-05, 07:56   Link #2020
DragoonKain3
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Originally Posted by Konakaga View Post
Well the other reason I don't go gp5 is because regrowth pendant start on skarner leaves you dangerous low on HP for a good bit of your first clear compared to cloth and 5 pots, which puts you in a lot more danger of being counter jungled or ganked in your jungle. And also I've found it leaves me at too low of hp to safely gank early on comparatively, though this could be due to me running movement speed% quints(I run AS marks) and not something else.
I go boots + 3 pots all the time. and finish at above 60% hp in the first run, since the people I play with gives me a very good leash even though its normal. I could opt to gank at lvl 4, but most of the time I know I won't even be able to force a summoner. So finishing at that high is kinda a waste when I just end up going back and get a philo.

Another good thing about boots first is that you're more resistant to jungle invades. Which goodness knows, there's enough Mundos and Shyvanas running around that mess around with your red side. XD
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