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Old 2012-05-06, 16:03   Link #21
dragonroots
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@Soji yeah she was off-limits, but when you got the mother of the girl of your dreams in front of you and she is just as attractive as her it is IMPOSSIBLE to not steal glances. And also do you really think Verenera would let any guy even approach her, i mean she is "The Brunette Madame of Extinction" pretty sure that name alone will scare away all but the strongest of beings. She may even be able to prevent any more girls from joining Ise's harem if she exerts a strong enough aura, she may even be able to revert Ise's rep in school (she just gives off that air to me).
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Old 2012-05-06, 16:08   Link #22
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Venerana gives off an aura of someone you wouldn't want to piss off. Pretty evident that she is the one who controls the Gremory household, though pretty sure all the females in the Gremory Family holds all the power. From what we learn from vol 5, Ise has surpassed Rias' father, so the speculation could be that Rias' mother is stronger than her husband.
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Old 2012-05-06, 16:14   Link #23
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dragonroots @ Agree with this. Verenera really give that feeling.
Reaper@ Agree with this .

Also we know that Verenera it's good to teach or at leat this is what we know thanks to Ise.
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Old 2012-05-06, 16:15   Link #24
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@Reaper I've watched my mom deal with 2 husbands (my dad and step-dad), both were whipped and the second is clearly physically stronger than her and she still holds ALL the power in the relationship. It may not be that Verenera is stronger than her husband (though i don't doubt she is with that nickname) but that as with most men we don't want to lose our "exclusive spot" so we end up doing whatever the woman wants to gain access to said spot (we already have seen Ise lose his room to Rias when he upset her, that was a small sample of what she can eventually hold hostage from him).
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Old 2012-05-06, 16:22   Link #25
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Venerana really intrigues me due to the fact she changed a lot throughout the entire Novel. In vol 5 when she was first introduce, I pretty much dislike her because the way she first talked about Ise was like he wasn't good enough for Rias and the family. Fast forward to the end of vol 5, she accepted him as a family. Vol 9, she gives a first time normal cute expression than the strict and stern we used of reading. Then vol 10 she encourage Rias to make Ise hers and bring him to the family. It is pretty understandable why she suddenly changed her perspective of Ise considering what he has done.
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Old 2012-05-06, 17:21   Link #26
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@Reaper yeah but don't parents usually hate who their kids date, especially rich ones that have their kid dating some nobody who's piss poor and has no social status. I'd say that they acted accordingly, kinda show a face that says accept him while watching his every move waiting for him to slip up, Ise showed Rias' parents by the end of the novel that he is strong enough to protect their daughter, and he genuinely cares about her and her family.
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Old 2012-05-06, 18:18   Link #27
sky black swordman
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@Reaper yeah but don't parents usually hate who their kids date, especially rich ones that have their kid dating some nobody who's piss poor and has no social status. I'd say that they acted accordingly, kinda show a face that says accept him while watching his every move waiting for him to slip up, Ise showed Rias' parents by the end of the novel that he is strong enough to protect their daughter, and he genuinely cares about her and her family.
Well to me I am surprise Rias still has a good relationship with her family after all they tried to force her to marry someone she did not love or like or stand. She understood their reason's but even so to forgive them so quicky is surprising.

I mean her dad , mom , brother, and sister in law were forcing her to marry raizer just so she could "make" more pure blood children and that
" these children will be important from now on" .

I mean come on Rias can you forgive them after all that they put you through.


All though it end the way it did with her brother and sister in law helping Ise stop the marriage dont forget they were originally on board with whole thing.

I am also surprise at Ise forgiving nature I mean he also dislike the fact that her family was forcing her to marry to raizer and for rias family for putting rias through the whole ordeal.

And he also forgave Rias after she slap him and telling him to abandon asia not once but twice .

Of course their where reasons why they had to leave her the first time and when he went back to school to report what had happened to him and asia and tells her he wants to save her , she says no and but continues to try persuade her to let gim go save asia she slaps him and still says no and tell him she is their enemy to forget about her and let her die. Although they did ended up going to saving asia in the end and did save her that does not change the fact Aisa did die.

I could see Ise leaving to save Asia in the same way ichigo did to save orihime in bleach disobeying order's to save her.

At the time when the whole asia situation happend remmember he just admire and liked her because she save him or because she was the one of school's Idols he did not love her. I am surprise did not Ise show a little resentment toward Rias after for the whole thing.

The same can be said for Rias and her whole forced engagement to raizer I thought she would at least shown some resentment toward her family.
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Last edited by sky black swordman; 2012-05-07 at 02:00. Reason: I timed out.
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Old 2012-05-06, 18:24   Link #28
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@sky keep in mind Sirzechs gave Ise the gryphon as a last resort to save his sister, he DID NOT want her to marry Raiser, all the time he was trying to find a way to save her since (being the siscon he is) he only wanted Rias to be happy, her happiness to him means more than the entire underworld, i wouldn't be surprised if he gave up his position of Maou just to save his sister.
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Old 2012-05-06, 19:15   Link #29
sky black swordman
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@sky keep in mind Sirzechs gave Ise the gryphon as a last resort to save his sister, he DID NOT want her to marry Raiser, all the time he was trying to find a way to save her since (being the siscon he is) he only wanted Rias to be happy, her happiness to him means more than the entire underworld, i wouldn't be surprised if he gave up his position of Maou just to save his sister.
Yeah but dont forget he also had a hand in the engagement. Remember his name was mentioned by Grayfia and raizer when they talk about rias getting married to raizer. And he help only after the RG.
And in vol 11 although It may not mean anything but Azazel said in a joking manner “……Y-you are right. Maybe rushing things is the bad part of the males in Gremory…….. Cough.”

He also wanted rias to marry raizer. And why did he wait until the the RG ended or more to the point why did have a hand in the whole engagement.
And how can you say you love your sister and want her to be happy and then force her to marry someone she does not love and put her through the whole ordeal.

Sirzechs changed his mind after he saw how Ise fought raizer and no matter how much he got beat down by raizer he still stood back up even after he paased out.
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Old 2012-05-07, 06:42   Link #30
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Originally Posted by sky black swordman View Post
Yeah but dont forget he also had a hand in the engagement. Remember his name was mentioned by Grayfia and raizer when they talk about rias getting married to raizer. And he help only after the RG.
And in vol 11 although It may not mean anything but Azazel said in a joking manner “……Y-you are right. Maybe rushing things is the bad part of the males in Gremory…….. Cough.”

He also wanted rias to marry raizer. And why did he wait until the the RG ended or more to the point why did have a hand in the whole engagement.
And how can you say you love your sister and want her to be happy and then force her to marry someone she does not love and put her through the whole ordeal.

Sirzechs changed his mind after he saw how Ise fought raizer and no matter how much he got beat down by raizer he still stood back up even after he paased out.
Not quite, he was trying to help Rias all those time but he can't do it directly because of his position as Maou. If he openly helps Rias to break her engagement, it will reflect on his reputation as Maou which is why he decides to make Ise break the engagement so Sirzechs can help indirectly to break the engagement by making execuse that he wants to see Sekiryutei's power against Phoenix while offering Ise a prize for winning the fight in confidence Ise will use the prize to save Rias
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Old 2012-05-07, 17:31   Link #31
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@sky black swordsman
Sirzechs position as Maou comes first before personal feelings and while he doesn't want his sister to marry someone she does not like, marriages between pure-bloods would benefit devil society as a whole (nobles would be pleased, strong offspring etc). Rias herself understands that as well, having grown up as a high-class devil, so she doesn't hold it against her family.

Sirzechs understands Ise's loyalty towards Rias, but he could only make the Sekiryutei vs Phenex gamble because Ise is the Sekiryutei, a force which they can't simply disregard. If Kiba / Akeno / Koneko tried to break it off, they would be simply ignored and led out the hall.
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Old 2012-05-07, 17:57   Link #32
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And even the rest of Rias family: yes, it's true they forced her to marry a guy for whom she didn't have any feelings.
But the truth of the matter was that after the engagement was broken up by Ise, they went and followed her wishes for the one she would marry and even accepted her target future husband (in this case Ise), so finding motives for forgiving them doesn't seem that unnatural for that, although they will not accept another broken off marriage so either she marries Ise or it's back to the original plan (they are nobles so it isn't that outrageous doing that).
As for the hole Asia situation, the first time she stops Ise it was for good reasons, the second time is because she was planning on going to save her but didn't want Ise, still a new-born devil and with a weak SG, to enter battle seeing it was against a Fallen-Angel that already killed and wounded him gravely (by this order), so I also understand that part.
If Rias really didn't want to rescue Asia, she wouldn't have made her her bishop, thus exhausting her bishop pieces. At least that's the way I see it.
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Old 2012-05-07, 18:12   Link #33
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@Spider True she didn't want Ise to go save her after Asia was recaptured, but she realized that Ise wasn't going to take no for an answer so she told him (albeit very discreetly) how to use his powers more efficiently. But something tells me, she also had a feeling that Ise's sacred gear was stronger than a twice critical (he consumed 8 pieces after all) and knowing that SG reacts to the users emotions, sent him in hoping to figure out why he was worth 8 pieces, which she did (though she covered it up well, i get the feeling she was jumping for joy on the inside thinking "YAY, i got a longinus user as my servant, i'm so lucky".
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Old 2012-05-07, 18:15   Link #34
Darth SpiderDen
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@Spider True she didn't want Ise to go save her after Asia was recaptured, but she realized that Ise wasn't going to take no for an answer so she told him (albeit very discreetly) how to use his powers more efficiently. But something tells me, she also had a feeling that Ise's sacred gear was stronger than a twice critical (he consumed 8 pieces after all) and knowing that SG reacts to the users emotions, sent him in hoping to figure out why he was worth 8 pieces, which she did (though she covered it up well, i get the feeling she was jumping for joy on the inside thinking "YAY, i got a longinus user as my servant, i'm so lucky".
It was a matter of: "You are a Pawn that consumed all my 8 pieces, I'm not going to let you go and just be killed off; since I can't stop you at least let me give you some advice to help you in combat". That's the way I see it at least.
And yeah, when she found out/confirmed his sacred gear abilities, she would have jumped of joy if she were alone with him, I'm certain.
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Old 2012-05-07, 18:48   Link #35
dragonroots
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@Spider I've watched way too much anime, i'm imagining a mini-Rias (not loli) jumping around everytime she gets happy now or fuming when she gets mad (rescued from engagement, first kiss, Akeno seduction attempts, sharing him in the bath, confession scene).
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Old 2012-05-07, 20:25   Link #36
sky black swordman
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NoirX, Awrya, Darth SpiderDen

On the subject of Sirzechs position as Maou comes first before personal feelings I Understand because of his position and because of devil society he could not interfere and directly to break off the engagement. So he could only help indirectly help stop the engagement.

But like I said before he was not only mentioned by Rias but Grayfia and Raizer as someone who agreed to the engagement. . These lines tells you that

“Everyone such as the master, Sirzechs-sama and the people from the house of Phenex knew it would become like this. To tell you the truth this was to be the last discussion meeting. Everyone knew that it wouldn’t be solved, so they decided to make a last resort.”

“I felt something uneasy when I heard that Raiser was chosen as my fiancé. Yes, I think otou-sama and the others chose him in case something like this were to happen. They chose Raiser so I will have no choice left. Even if it becomes a match between households, they knew that there was no way for me to win.”

This tells you he wanted the marriage to happen and know that Rias would resist the marriage. Althoght he did help in the end I will let this one slide but the father and mother are a different story

dragonroots
On subject of her being happy and " jumping for joy on the inside thinking "YAY, i got a longinus user as my servant, i'm so lucky". If she
thought this when she reincarnated him in to a devil in the beginning it would have hurt Issei a lot and he may have resented her only bring him back to life only because he had the BG longinus and left her and the group.


If i remember correctly many servents of high class devils in vol 12 turn on their masters becuase they where turned in to or reincarnated in to devils because of their SG.
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Old 2012-05-07, 21:08   Link #37
dragonroots
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@sky do you REALLY think Ise would have hated her? I don't, and besides she even admitted to him that she revived him because of his value of 8 pawns, and it isn't the reason why she revived him that matters, it's how she treats him, tell me something, putting aside Rias' awesome body, if she revived you purely because you had the potential of 8 pawns, would you get angry at her that she revived you only because of that, i know i wouldn't.
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Old 2012-05-07, 21:31   Link #38
sky black swordman
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@sky do you REALLY think Ise would have hated her? I don't, and besides she even admitted to him that she revived him because of his value of 8 pawns, and it isn't the reason why she revived him that matters, it's how she treats him, tell me something, putting aside Rias' awesome body, if she revived you purely because you had the potential of 8 pawns, would you get angry at her that she revived you only because of that, i know i wouldn't.


True. But Ise is not that smart at the start of series right. If Ise was smarter I wouldnt be surprise Ise did not question Rias and say " Hey wait you knew I had a SG. So did you bring me back to life because of my SG that consumed 8 pawn pieces?
Here is another question he may have asked Rias " Hey Buchou did also know I was in contact with a fallen angel and might try to kill me?

In the Anime it shows Rias was more then aware of Ise and there was something different about him or may a SG holder and keep a close eye on him and made the decision to make him her servent.

So tell dont you think he would have hurt by this?
Of course it did not happen like that.
But dont you think if this was the situation Issei would have been hurt and then the question would have been what would have Ise done?
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Old 2012-05-07, 21:37   Link #39
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@sky black swordman The one arranging the engagement is Mr.Gremory and Mr.Phoenix, Sirzechs in this case just give his approval because he can't oppose directly which doesn't imply he agreed to it. Its like a president have to agree to a planned engagement of his family member(can't direcly oppose but opposed it indirecly)
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Old 2012-05-08, 01:33   Link #40
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sky black swordman @From what we know about Ise from all this vol . I dubt he would act like you say. Also ,i think Rias show more than one time how much she care about ise. Hell from vol 2 she totally fall for him.I think the Rias(and that can be say for the other as well) make pretty clear in this vol what they think about Ise and that they not like/care about him because the Sg but because who he is.
About the marriage thing i agree with NoirX and the other that say like him. Sirzechs don't want that the marriage happen, but he can't do anything at that time and he know that no one in the gremory group can do anything. That's why,when he see how Ise was determined he chose to trust him for Rias sake. I think Graifya word when she give the seal with the griffon inside to Ise where clear enough about this. Also we know pretty well what he think about Ise now ...Sirzechs see Ise a his own little brother.
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