AnimeSuki Forums

Guernsey · 2012-05-07, 11:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheba

You are forgetting the more shallow portion of the fans rooting for the Galactic Empire, the Axis and other empires only because "they have the prettier clothes."

To be fair, UC Gundam fans aren't that much better with Zeon and for exact same reason the Star Wars fans liked it. Although I admit tha they do look cool.

Lost Cause · 2012-05-07, 14:32

The only one I rooted for was Suzaku! I don't know if he really was a villian in the truest sense if the word, but he did align himself with Britannia.

Awrya · 2012-05-07, 16:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lost Cause

The only one I rooted for was Suzaku! I don't know if he really was a villian in the truest sense if the word, but he did align himself with Britannia.

He would be more of an antagonists rather than a villain I guess.

The only example I can think of right now would be Makoto from School Days, where I really hoped he'd just

Spoiler for Spoiler alert:

after the first few episodes

Though there isn't really a villain (MC is just pain stupid).

Ichuki · 2012-05-07, 16:46

I will root for the antagonists if their personality is interesting

Vicious108 · 2012-05-07, 17:15

Villains turn out to be my favorite characters in a show relatively often, mostly because they have a tendency to turn out to be much more complex and intriguing characters than the often see-through heroes. There's this quote that goes "In Heaven, all the interesting people are missing." which is obviously arguable, but when it comes to fiction, I definitely see some truth to it and rarely do entirely goody two-shoes characters excite me all that much. Characters with some degree of moral ambiguity tend to be more entertaining to me, hence my particular enjoyment of villains.

With that being said, generally speaking (and this entire post is based on generalizations to which obviously there are exceptions) I still tend to root against them, precisely because they do their job so well and they're such interesting characters that it makes me want to see how they will behave when their glorious downfall comes.

lml99 · 2012-05-07, 22:39

Although they're not really antagonists, I was with Lagoon and co. in Black Lagoon for most of the series, but maybe that's just because the other side did a little too much puppy kickin'. However, I'm always cheering for Roberta whenever she's there >: D.

Qilin · 2012-05-09, 22:21

"Villain" is only a label for characters who have deviant moral codes. Who's to say which one is even right? I often find myself rooting for the "villains" of some shows simply because certain "heroes" have outdated and widely impractical value systems.

But then again, some of my favorite characters are virtually irredeemable (Johan Liebert from Monster and Bernkastel from Umineko), so take my views with a grain of salt.

Jan-Poo · 2012-05-10, 10:43

I don't think I ever "rooted" for a villain but I find myself liking evil characters more often that good ones, albeit I still want to see them lose.

I suppose the fact that they'll be loser in the end is part of the appeal of a villain for me.

Triple_R · 2012-05-10, 11:57

I tend to take a bit of a meta approach to this.

I find it far more entertaining/interesting for a villain to be a strenuous challenge for the protagonist to overcome than for the villain to be an easy obstacle. So this leaves me initially rooting for the villain, and wanting him/her to do well and actually "win" something.

Now, once the villain has established himself as a very credible challenge/threat, at that point I usually root for the protagonist.

But there are a few instance where I find...

1) A villain so entertainingly charismatic that I simply can't bring myself to cheer against him/her (a good recent example of this being Umineko's Beatrice), and/or...

2) I actually find the villain too sympathetic to root against (the final villain of Gundam Seed Destiny is someone I found it hard to root against for this reason).

Archon_Wing · 2012-05-10, 17:17

Sometimes when the show fails to garner enough sympathy for the protagonist or too much for the antagonist, you can get this. I felt this during Terra e...

Sometimes, both sides can have awesome and honorable people making the morality a bit more grey, such as in Mobile Suit Gundam. But I may only support Char, not Zeon. :S

Akito Kinomoto · 2012-05-10, 19:12

Meh. Call me "classical" but I usually refer to the character who opposes our main character to be an antagonist instead of a villain if the "villain" is a little too sympathetic or the series context has grey and grey morality. I certainly find myself rooting for antagonists quite a bit but villains are a different story. I dunno. I feel like if I ever cheer for the character I'm supposed to be booing then they're not selling the act correctly.

~¥2

Qilin · 2012-05-10, 22:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akito_Kinomoto

Meh. Call me "classical" but I usually refer to the character who opposes our main character to be an antagonist instead of a villain if the "villain" is a little too sympathetic or the series context has grey and grey morality. I certainly find myself rooting for antagonists quite a bit but villains are a different story. I dunno. I feel like if I ever cheer for the character I'm supposed to be booing then they're not selling the act correctly.

~¥2

So in other words, a non-villain antagonist is usually portrayed sympathetically while a villain is a designated target for viewers' hate/disgust, that is to say, not sympathetic at all. Did I get that right?

In that case, is it really just a question of portrayal then?

On another note, I think an even more interesting phenomenon is how certain viewers tend to root for unsympathetic villains. Is it another manifestation of wish fulfillment? Maybe with a bit of schadenfreude to accompany it?

Triple_R · 2012-05-10, 22:33

One common benefit that villains tend to have over heroes is that villains tend to be proactive, rather than reactive. In other words, villains are often "the movers and shakers", the ones that really get the plot progressing in big, bold, bodacious ways. Often times, the protagonist simply reacts to what the villain does. If you took the villain(s) out of an action-packed show, you'd often be left with a slice of life show.

I think that there's something inherently appealing about a proactive, "take charge" character, even sometimes if you disagree with what that character is doing. If you look at a lot of the criticisms that many anime male leads received (particularly harem anime male leads) it's that they're too indecisive, too wishy-washy, not quick enough to "get the hint" and take action.

Villains are often the exact opposite - Very decisive, very firm, doesn't shy away from taking bold actions. In some cases, this actually makes villains refreshing - Finally, somebody who doesn't dick around all the time, and actually makes stuff happen!

While the protagonist often endlessly waxes poetic (if not angsts) over what he should do, the villain simply knows what s/he wants and goes for it.

Calca · 2012-05-10, 23:22

Seta Soujiro from Kenshin

Coldlight · 2012-05-11, 00:49

I don't usually do this, but if I had to cite an example, I'd mention Ryouko Asakura from Suzumiya Haruhi no Yuuutsu.

Though to me she's not really a straight-up villain and more of an antagonist. And I've been a long time fan of her, too...

Calca · 2012-05-11, 00:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coldlight

I don't usually do this, but if I had to cite an example, I'd mention Ryouko Asakura from Suzumiya Haruhi no Yuuutsu.

Though to me she's not really a straight-up villain and more of an antagonist. And I've been a long time fan of her, too...

Wait

Spoiler:

Akito Kinomoto · 2012-05-11, 01:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qilin

So in other words, a non-villain antagonist is usually portrayed sympathetically while a villain is a designated target for viewers' hate/disgust, that is to say, not sympathetic at all. Did I get that right?

Almost. A villain does denote an unsympathetic antagonist for me but at the same time it's more a matter of a character on the opposing side who just so happens to be morally ambiguous than it is mere antagonists usually being worth caring about.

Quote:

In that case, is it really just a question of portrayal then?

Perhaps so. Even if an antagonist isn't a villain that doesn't mean they're sympathetic either. Maybe they just invoke no disgust or empathy from the viewer aside from being a plot device for conflict.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Streetor

Wait

Spoiler:

You know what they say: crazy in the head, crazy in the bed.

Coldlight · 2012-05-11, 01:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Streetor

Wait

Spoiler:

Well,

Spoiler:

2012-05-07, 16:46	Link #24
Ichuki ┌(^o^)┘モリ!┌(^o^)┘モリ! Join Date: Sep 2010	I will root for the antagonists if their personality is interesting __________________

2012-05-09, 22:21	Link #27
Qilin Relativist Join Date: Aug 2009	"Villain" is only a label for characters who have deviant moral codes. Who's to say which one is even right? I often find myself rooting for the "villains" of some shows simply because certain "heroes" have outdated and widely impractical value systems. But then again, some of my favorite characters are virtually irredeemable (Johan Liebert from Monster and Bernkastel from Umineko), so take my views with a grain of salt. __________________ "There’s an up higher than up, but at the very top, down is all there is."

2012-05-10, 10:43	Link #28
Jan-Poo 別にいいけど Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: forever lost inside a logic error	I don't think I ever "rooted" for a villain but I find myself liking evil characters more often that good ones, albeit I still want to see them lose. I suppose the fact that they'll be loser in the end is part of the appeal of a villain for me. __________________

2012-05-10, 11:57	Link #29
Triple_R GunBlade, Cute and Deadly Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: In Kyouko's Dreams... Age: 31	I tend to take a bit of a meta approach to this. I find it far more entertaining/interesting for a villain to be a strenuous challenge for the protagonist to overcome than for the villain to be an easy obstacle. So this leaves me initially rooting for the villain, and wanting him/her to do well and actually "win" something. Now, once the villain has established himself as a very credible challenge/threat, at that point I usually root for the protagonist. But there are a few instance where I find... 1) A villain so entertainingly charismatic that I simply can't bring myself to cheer against him/her (a good recent example of this being Umineko's Beatrice), and/or... 2) I actually find the villain too sympathetic to root against (the final villain of Gundam Seed Destiny is someone I found it hard to root against for this reason). __________________

2012-05-10, 22:33	Link #33
Triple_R GunBlade, Cute and Deadly Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: In Kyouko's Dreams... Age: 31	One common benefit that villains tend to have over heroes is that villains tend to be proactive, rather than reactive. In other words, villains are often "the movers and shakers", the ones that really get the plot progressing in big, bold, bodacious ways. Often times, the protagonist simply reacts to what the villain does. If you took the villain(s) out of an action-packed show, you'd often be left with a slice of life show. I think that there's something inherently appealing about a proactive, "take charge" character, even sometimes if you disagree with what that character is doing. If you look at a lot of the criticisms that many anime male leads received (particularly harem anime male leads) it's that they're too indecisive, too wishy-washy, not quick enough to "get the hint" and take action. Villains are often the exact opposite - Very decisive, very firm, doesn't shy away from taking bold actions. In some cases, this actually makes villains refreshing - Finally, somebody who doesn't dick around all the time, and actually makes stuff happen! While the protagonist often endlessly waxes poetic (if not angsts) over what he should do, the villain simply knows what s/he wants and goes for it. __________________

2012-05-07, 14:32	Link #22
Lost Cause Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Virginia Age: 35	The only one I rooted for was Suzaku! I don't know if he really was a villian in the truest sense if the word, but he did align himself with Britannia.

2012-05-07, 17:15	Link #25
Vicious108 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2007	Villains turn out to be my favorite characters in a show relatively often, mostly because they have a tendency to turn out to be much more complex and intriguing characters than the often see-through heroes. There's this quote that goes "In Heaven, all the interesting people are missing." which is obviously arguable, but when it comes to fiction, I definitely see some truth to it and rarely do entirely goody two-shoes characters excite me all that much. Characters with some degree of moral ambiguity tend to be more entertaining to me, hence my particular enjoyment of villains. With that being said, generally speaking (and this entire post is based on generalizations to which obviously there are exceptions) I still tend to root against them, precisely because they do their job so well and they're such interesting characters that it makes me want to see how they will behave when their glorious downfall comes.

2012-05-07, 22:39	Link #26
lml99 Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Preferably in my imagination	Although they're not really antagonists, I was with Lagoon and co. in Black Lagoon for most of the series, but maybe that's just because the other side did a little too much puppy kickin'. However, I'm always cheering for Roberta whenever she's there >: D.

2012-05-10, 23:22	Link #34
Calca Brina! Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Incognito	Seta Soujiro from Kenshin

2012-05-11, 00:49	Link #35
Coldlight SayaKyou 120% Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Under the piercing blue sky	I don't usually do this, but if I had to cite an example, I'd mention Ryouko Asakura from Suzumiya Haruhi no Yuuutsu. Though to me she's not really a straight-up villain and more of an antagonist. And I've been a long time fan of her, too... __________________ Miracles and magic do exist. I have no regrets.